FLASH POLL: BB's Future
- Thread starter DJnVa
- Start date
I voted 1 & 3. I know I am a softy, but I grew up salty as a Patriots fan. I want to see BB pass Shula and win atleast one more SB as the Patriots HC. Bill gave us the best 20 year ride to date and a few bad years doesn't dilute his stature in my eyes.
I want to see his last game before retiring on the Patriot sidelines and be at his HOF induction ceremony. If BB's tenue as a Coach was a movie, it would be in the classic "darkest hour before emerging triumphant." Think Rocky III
Rocky:
I'M AFRAID! ALL RIGHT?! YOU WANT TO HEAR ME SAY IT? You want to break me down? All right, I'm afraid. For the first time in my life, I'm afraid.
Adrian:
I'm afraid too. There's nothing wrong with being afraid.
Rocky:
There is. For me, there is.
I want to see his last game before retiring on the Patriot sidelines and be at his HOF induction ceremony. If BB's tenue as a Coach was a movie, it would be in the classic "darkest hour before emerging triumphant." Think Rocky III
Rocky:
I'M AFRAID! ALL RIGHT?! YOU WANT TO HEAR ME SAY IT? You want to break me down? All right, I'm afraid. For the first time in my life, I'm afraid.
Adrian:
I'm afraid too. There's nothing wrong with being afraid.
Rocky:
There is. For me, there is.
I went with the he should be the coach opening day but will not be.
He probably won't be as there is too much smoke on this. As much as he probably should be the coach next year, I've got to think that those discussions (unfathomable five years ago) have taken place.
Why he should be the coach opening day... I'm not sure if there is anyone available that is better suited to bring the Pats out of the hole that they're in. This team has had sustained success from 2001 to 2021. A lull is to be expected simply due to the parity that the NFL system creates. That the Pats have been able to avoid that has been borderline miraculous over the course of twenty years. The issue with this team is that their franchise quarterback didn't have the ceiling required to carry a team. I would be very interested to see what Belichick could do with a quarterback picked second overall.
He probably won't be as there is too much smoke on this. As much as he probably should be the coach next year, I've got to think that those discussions (unfathomable five years ago) have taken place.
Why he should be the coach opening day... I'm not sure if there is anyone available that is better suited to bring the Pats out of the hole that they're in. This team has had sustained success from 2001 to 2021. A lull is to be expected simply due to the parity that the NFL system creates. That the Pats have been able to avoid that has been borderline miraculous over the course of twenty years. The issue with this team is that their franchise quarterback didn't have the ceiling required to carry a team. I would be very interested to see what Belichick could do with a quarterback picked second overall.
I went 2/4, I am thankful for all he has done for the franchise but his well documented failures as a GM on the offensive side of the ball are so bad that he has to go.
Voted 2 & 4 as well. He's the GOAT for sure, but this is a poorly constructed roster and a poorly coached team. For whatever reason, BB is no longer able to be the catalyzing force behind a culture that's fanatically committed to winning. Maybe he no longer has the physical or mental stamina to ride herd over 52 players. Maybe the fact that he's lost all his lieutenants save Slater means he can no longer iterate the culture across time. But it's all going to shit. Well, the defense shows promise, but the Patriots Way, broadly, is crumbling, and I don't think BB is the guy to rebuild it.
I voted he won't be but should be. He should no longer get to shop for the groceries but I don't see anybody better for the head coach position. I think Kraft will either just look to clear the deck after this year or offer what I'm hoping to Belichick and Belichick will turn that offer down.
Kinda where I am. I am hoping they can thread that needle, but I don't think they can.
Should be/won’t be.
It’s going to be much harder to replace what Belichick brings to the table than many realize. But NFL owner is going to NFL owner and make the wrong decision and likely screw it up in the process.
It’s going to be much harder to replace what Belichick brings to the table than many realize. But NFL owner is going to NFL owner and make the wrong decision and likely screw it up in the process.
I went with 2 and 3.
I know a 3rd paired option would have been difficult, but adding voting options for the GM role (will/won't) would be good here. I think it's clear that BB's coaching skills remain excellent, but he's gotta give up the grocery buying and accept much more help in player acquisition and scouting, with a new GM taking over. It's simply harder to make the daring choices that highlighted his GM career (bringing in Dillon and Harrison in the early years; Moss and Welker for '07; Gronk and VoldemorTE; the moves to acquire Talib, then Revis, then Gilmore) without Tom Brady's talents to buttress the offense for ~20 years. Teams are less likely to deal with him, for fear of being made to look foolish, and draft analytics seem to have leveled the playing field.
That in mind, I don't think he will accept a demotion from GM responsibilities to strictly coach, and will be gone a couple of weeks after Black Monday, as teams fire their coaches, and Kraft negotiates a trade, or to fire BB.
I know a 3rd paired option would have been difficult, but adding voting options for the GM role (will/won't) would be good here. I think it's clear that BB's coaching skills remain excellent, but he's gotta give up the grocery buying and accept much more help in player acquisition and scouting, with a new GM taking over. It's simply harder to make the daring choices that highlighted his GM career (bringing in Dillon and Harrison in the early years; Moss and Welker for '07; Gronk and VoldemorTE; the moves to acquire Talib, then Revis, then Gilmore) without Tom Brady's talents to buttress the offense for ~20 years. Teams are less likely to deal with him, for fear of being made to look foolish, and draft analytics seem to have leveled the playing field.
That in mind, I don't think he will accept a demotion from GM responsibilities to strictly coach, and will be gone a couple of weeks after Black Monday, as teams fire their coaches, and Kraft negotiates a trade, or to fire BB.
2/3 for me. I don't want it ending this way but fear it will. His age paired with the high draft pick and need for a new QB/offensive overhaul, the market efficiency of finding that guy in the draft, and a new approach to personnel that can't really happen with him here are convincing enough to me that the Krafts will make the change. Buy your NYJ tix now!
I voted shouldn't be/will be. I have no trust in Bill's ability to put together a modern NFL offense, but I think he'll manage to convince Kraft the team was sabotaged by horrific QB play.
For me, the defense looks solid and it’s become clear the QB situation with Mac was so bad that, yes, effectively one awful player sunk this team’s chances at at least competing for a playoff spot. Zappe, with a full week of preparation and not godawful freezing rain on game day, proved even a lukewarm QB with a pulse can put a few scores up on the scoreboard with the offense constructed as-is.
Last week, to me, sealed the deal on Mac being the biggest bust in Patriots history. Hell, I can’t help but wonder where he’ll stand on the list of all-time busts.
Very interesting and curious to see.
My guess would be people now blame Mac for the situation more than BB.
I went 2/3. I think there is enough smoke to believe he's gone.
As for 3 over 4. To me it was this:
1. I know Bill Belichick is a great coach, not just in the past... the things he's done with the defenses the last few years have been remarkable, and this is the first year I think they underperformed talent on Offense.
2. GM Bill is less clear, the defensive picks have worked, many of the offensive ones have not, same with signings which have been a mixed bag. Now one legit question is whether the offensive signings would look more like hits if they didn't miss on their QBs. I also have some concerns about the offensive and ST staffs.
I think there is a case for moving on, BUT.....
I have not seen a single alternative proposed that makes sense. Everyone of them has been "Hire coach X, who is worse than Belichick and then..... profit?"
I'd be more willing to buy into #4 if I heard are reasonable argument for a path forward that involved an exec who is better than Bill (or there is reason to believe will be better going forward), since that is the area Bill has not been up to his previous standards in recent years.
As for 3 over 4. To me it was this:
1. I know Bill Belichick is a great coach, not just in the past... the things he's done with the defenses the last few years have been remarkable, and this is the first year I think they underperformed talent on Offense.
2. GM Bill is less clear, the defensive picks have worked, many of the offensive ones have not, same with signings which have been a mixed bag. Now one legit question is whether the offensive signings would look more like hits if they didn't miss on their QBs. I also have some concerns about the offensive and ST staffs.
I think there is a case for moving on, BUT.....
I have not seen a single alternative proposed that makes sense. Everyone of them has been "Hire coach X, who is worse than Belichick and then..... profit?"
I'd be more willing to buy into #4 if I heard are reasonable argument for a path forward that involved an exec who is better than Bill (or there is reason to believe will be better going forward), since that is the area Bill has not been up to his previous standards in recent years.
What's really funny about this poll is the number of people skipping either of the should he shouldn't he or teh will he or won't he questions.
I voted 1and 3. I don’t think BB has completely lost his fastball. The defense has been solid all year even after losing Judon and Gonzalez. Offense clearly has been a mess. I do believe BB struggled with resolving the QB situation, sticking with Mac for too long. I think BB saw a more talented QB in Mac and one, by all accounts I’ve seen, who was putting in the work to make things better so he stuck with him. For a variety of reasons, some still unclear, that return to previous, rookie season form did not happen.
However, I do think BB shoukd take a step back in the GM area. My sense is that the loss over the years of some trusted and strong voices in the room such as Adams, Pioli, Scar, etc. has had an impact. A strong GM ( or whatever title you want to use) involved in deliberations around free agents and the draft would make a differenc. I think if the Krafts make any moves this offseason with regards to BB it may be in this area. Make BB “Director of Football Operations“ or some such title and bring in a GM or Director of Player Personnel (any way Pioli would be available or even interested?).
And yes, sentiment plays into this for me and I suspect the Krafts too. I don’t think they want to see BB go out on a low note. This team will be better next year. An improved team and season makes it much easier for Bill to retire with honor. I hope they give him that opportunity.
However, I do think BB shoukd take a step back in the GM area. My sense is that the loss over the years of some trusted and strong voices in the room such as Adams, Pioli, Scar, etc. has had an impact. A strong GM ( or whatever title you want to use) involved in deliberations around free agents and the draft would make a differenc. I think if the Krafts make any moves this offseason with regards to BB it may be in this area. Make BB “Director of Football Operations“ or some such title and bring in a GM or Director of Player Personnel (any way Pioli would be available or even interested?).
And yes, sentiment plays into this for me and I suspect the Krafts too. I don’t think they want to see BB go out on a low note. This team will be better next year. An improved team and season makes it much easier for Bill to retire with honor. I hope they give him that opportunity.
The question really boils down to - what could Belichick have realistically done differently that would have moved the needle?
1. Drafted Lamar Jackson in 2018;
2. Signed Lamar Jackson in 2023;
3. No Judge/Patricia garbage; and
4. Passed on Harry and Thornton.
I think he had to draft Mac Jones. Arguably, he stuck with Mac Jones for a season too long. But what was the realistic alternative - Minshew?
The self inflicted damage here is really Judge/Patricia last year. I don't think it should cost him his job.
Given his history here, I think he gets a chance to rebuild. If they are in a similar position next year, I think he is gone.
So 1 and 3 for me here.
1. Drafted Lamar Jackson in 2018;
2. Signed Lamar Jackson in 2023;
3. No Judge/Patricia garbage; and
4. Passed on Harry and Thornton.
I think he had to draft Mac Jones. Arguably, he stuck with Mac Jones for a season too long. But what was the realistic alternative - Minshew?
The self inflicted damage here is really Judge/Patricia last year. I don't think it should cost him his job.
Given his history here, I think he gets a chance to rebuild. If they are in a similar position next year, I think he is gone.
So 1 and 3 for me here.
Signing Lamar this year wasn't an option as long as Baltimore had two braincells to run together. Hard to hang that on Bill.
Bill Belichick accomplished something which I think will never happen again - a 20 year run of Super Bowl contention almost every year in the salary cap era. And it wasn’t just Brady, there were 52 other guys on all those rosters which Bill the GM acquired and Bill the coach developed. It’s unthinkable to me that a 20 year period of unparalleled excellence results in a 3 year leash which consists of 2 mediocre years where they were in playoff contention (not Super Bowl contention) for most of the year and one abjectly terrible season where a perfect storm of terrible things has happened (OL injuries, Gonzalez/Judon injuries, Jones cratering, very difficult schedule early on, etc)
i the frustration with the WR acquisitions and drafting and all of that. But whatever new coach and GM they bring in will likely get 3-4 years to turn it around. Bizarre to me that Bill’s track record isn’t buying him a longer grace period than most guys get. But here we are.
is it possible Bill’s age has caught up with him and he can no longer handle the full operations? Sure. Is it possible that the game has passed him by? I don’t believe it, simply because he still clearly can handle defensive talent acquisition/coaching/game planning and you can’t do that at his level without understanding how modern offenses work. But sure I can see how some people would think he just can’t build an offense. But to me, it’s highly improbably they find a better coach out there. Possible to find a better GM? Perhaps on the offensive side of the ball but that remains to be seen as well.
So I want Bill here at least one more year to turn it around if his heart/brain can handle another rebuild. I think his achievements have earned him that right and I can’t see any probable outcome where the next guys are any better. Either Bill turns it around or history tells us it will take a few shots at GM’s/coaches before the Pats are relevant contenders.
that said, it feels like he’s on his way out so I vote for I want him here but he won’t be here.
i the frustration with the WR acquisitions and drafting and all of that. But whatever new coach and GM they bring in will likely get 3-4 years to turn it around. Bizarre to me that Bill’s track record isn’t buying him a longer grace period than most guys get. But here we are.
is it possible Bill’s age has caught up with him and he can no longer handle the full operations? Sure. Is it possible that the game has passed him by? I don’t believe it, simply because he still clearly can handle defensive talent acquisition/coaching/game planning and you can’t do that at his level without understanding how modern offenses work. But sure I can see how some people would think he just can’t build an offense. But to me, it’s highly improbably they find a better coach out there. Possible to find a better GM? Perhaps on the offensive side of the ball but that remains to be seen as well.
So I want Bill here at least one more year to turn it around if his heart/brain can handle another rebuild. I think his achievements have earned him that right and I can’t see any probable outcome where the next guys are any better. Either Bill turns it around or history tells us it will take a few shots at GM’s/coaches before the Pats are relevant contenders.
that said, it feels like he’s on his way out so I vote for I want him here but he won’t be here.
If I'm RKK, I do everything I can do to convince Bill to focus on coaching to get the record here and build a GM staff for the future.
I think BB is a great coach and defensive mind. The defense is really good yet the team is 3-10. Offense wins and I don't think he can build a high-quality offense without Tom Brady. I voted he should not be the coach going forward.
What I think is best for the team in 2024 is BB as coach and a new GM/President that has his own people and ideas.
But I don’t see a scenario where BB would answer to anyone above him except Kraft.
But I don’t see a scenario where BB would answer to anyone above him except Kraft.
I guess I just don't see this great defense everyone else sees. They are awesome at stopping the run. That's about it. I would accept the argument that they've played above their talent level with the injuries, but honestly I think people are acting as if this is a top 3 defense and they aren't particularly close to that level.
I totally agree with this statement. Look at the teams and QBs they have played to make them look better than they really are.They got a few nice pieces on defense that’s all I’d agree with with.
You are seeing a defense play the way they are without their two best players who happen to play the two most important positions.
The defense would be really good if those guys were healthy. On top of that they are on the field alot and have short fields to defend.
This defense is really good, not sure what else you are looking for to prove that.
They are about the 12th-14th best defense in the league by an amalgamation of points allowed, DVOA and EPA/Play. Two of those stats take field position and game context into account. That's certainly fine, I guess you could even say it's good considering the injuries, I just think they're getting overrated on that side of the ball due to the contrast to how horrific they are on offense.
All fair, I am willing to believe that with a top rusher and a lockdown corner, it's a top 5 defense. So at least that is where my optimism comes from.
Of course, bringing this back to BB, if they move on from him I think the defense takes a large step back. People here clearly think that a few steps back by the defense will be ok if the offense takes more steps forward. Now this is where I still have faith in BB and others don't.
We know. You are posting the same thing over and over again and you've been doing it for months. We know where you stand. Please stop.