Glazer: Giants reported to NFL that Steelers deflated footballs

[bosox188]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/15/why-didnt-nfl-check-steelers-footballs-during-giants-game/

So now the spin is that the original deflategate penalty was because the Patriots ball boy took the balls to the bathroom and that is the difference, but if it's the officials responsibility to keep the balls, why did you penalize the Patriots? Why is it so hard to believe that when the game was delayed due to the Seahawks/Packers game going into overtime, some lazy official told the part-time employee to hump the balls to the field?

That's not even the most infuriating part of that article. The most infuriating part is this:

Of course, in this case, it’s now clear that the Giants tested the PSI levels of two Pittsburgh footballs. It’s clear because Goodell necessarily admitted that the Giants tested the PSI levels when explaining why the measurements taken by the Giants weren’t taken seriously.

“That’s why you don’t rely on somebody else testing them,” Goodell said. “They are using a different device. Somebody else is testing them. They have to be tested by the officials who use the same device to make sure there is accuracy in that.”

Moving the goalposts again. For the Wells report, they used two different gauges when they checked all the balls and Exponent went out of their way to assume the only combination that might have brought the PSI levels slightly outside of the IGL, to the point of straight-up discarding the best recollection of the ref who measured them!

It's funny, at this point I think we all realize how futile it is to let ourselves keep getting all worked up over deflategate. But I really don't think I'm ever going to stop losing my shit whenever something new in this clown show comes along.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Packers/Bears is supposed to be single digits and potential below zero this week. Roger, get your chain of custody team together with their accurate and consistent gauges and allow a film crew to tape it all.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Packers/Bears is supposed to be single digits and potential below zero this week. Roger, get your chain of custody team together with their accurate and consistent gauges and allow a film crew to tape it all.

Since Rogers already admitted openly a few years ago that he prefers his balls to be over inflated, they'll probably land right in line of where they should be.

 

[Norm loves Vera]

Posting this here as it's not worthy of it's own thread because the Giants won't get any penalties, but apparently the Cowboys complained after last weeks game:

"The investigation comes after a formal complaint was filed by the Cowboys, according to the Post.

Coach Ben McAdoo was seen using a walkie-talkie to relay plays to quarterback Eli Manning when the Giants were having problems with their headsets early in the fourth quarter. Coaches are not allowed to hold any two-way radios during a game, a source told ESPN."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18287921/nfl-investigating-new-york-giants-possible-illegal-use-walkie-talkie-dallas-cowboys

 

[Harry Hooper]

Goodell says that this is a non-issue because standard protocols were followed. Well, we know that that was not true, because, as NickEsasky pointed out above, the Giants tampered with the footballs on the sideline against the rules when they took a psi reading.

HOWEVER, let's say that Goodell is correct. The next question from a reporter at his press conference should have been: "Thanks, Commissioner, I suppose that means that the Steelers didn't tamper with the footballs, and we're all grateful for that. But since the balls were at least a pound per square inch under the legal limit, what do you think could have caused that? Doesn't that show that cold weather causes natural deflation in footballs? Moreover, doesn't this mean that ball deflation itself is not inherently a problem, but only the idea of tampering is?"

I'd love for a reporter to have asked him those questions.

It seems nobody in the Massachusetts congressional delegation wants to pull a Specter on this.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Goodell "misspoke," guys, the Giants never raised the issue during the game:

 

[BigSoxFan]

Goodell "misspoke," guys, the Giants never raised the issue during the game:

Lol, he is so fucking bad at this.

 

[soxhop411]

Posting this here as it's not worthy of it's own thread because the Giants won't get any penalties, but apparently the Cowboys complained after last weeks game:

"The investigation comes after a formal complaint was filed by the Cowboys, according to the Post.

Coach Ben McAdoo was seen using a walkie-talkie to relay plays to quarterback Eli Manning when the Giants were having problems with their headsets early in the fourth quarter. Coaches are not allowed to hold any two-way radios during a game, a source told ESPN."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18287921/nfl-investigating-new-york-giants-possible-illegal-use-walkie-talkie-dallas-cowboys

I give it 12 hours before the NFL clears them

 

[tims4wins]

That's not even the most infuriating part of that article. The most infuriating part is this:



Moving the goalposts again. For the Wells report, they used two different gauges when they checked all the balls and Exponent went out of their way to assume the only combination that might have brought the PSI levels slightly outside of the IGL, to the point of straight-up discarding the best recollection of the ref who measured them!

It's funny, at this point I think we all realize how futile it is to let ourselves keep getting all worked up over deflategate. But I really don't think I'm ever going to stop losing my shit whenever something new in this clown show comes along.

Yep

 

[Zincman]

If this is a non-story(which it is) by the league given the fuhrer that was Deflategate that will tell me all I need to know about the owners' bias and jealousy towards Kraft and the Patriots.

The issue of bias has been the elephant in the room since the beginning of this affair. We have mentioned bias without ever simply considering how the issue of anti-semitism was potentially a fundamental factor. It is pretty easy to envision some of the principles e.g., Rooney, Mara, and Jones becoming resentful of Kraft, in particular after not only winning super bowls but becoming such a central figure in the labor negotiations and becoming a media darling in the process. I can easily see them being resentful of the "intruder" into the long established pecking order but I can also see them reducing it to "That little _ _ _. Who the hell does he think he is" He got his comeuppance at the owners meeting but it is entirely possible the enmity expressed there had at least a tinge of anti-semitism in it. I might be entirely wrong but I never eliminate the possibility of the basest instincts of humans being in play.

 

[Koufax]

With his obfuscation and willingness to engage in bald lies as if the truth weren't plain to see, we may have our next President all lined up.

 

[tims4wins]

I give it 12 hours before the NFL clears them

Integrity of the game

 

[tims4wins]

Such a tattle tale league. It's so sad. For a "tough" sport they are all a bunch of weenies.

 

[allstonite]

McAdoo answered some questions that they raised the issue! Or at least tested the footballs. No "formal" complaint but there was no formal complaint from the Colts.

Roger: Proper protocals regarding the balls were followed
Lawyer: actually Rog the Giants tested the balls themselves and that's against the rules
Roger: I meeeean, no issues were ever raised at all. What are you guys talking about?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

The issue of bias has been the elephant in the room since the beginning of this affair. We have mentioned bias without ever simply considering how the issue of anti-semitism was potentially a fundamental factor. It is pretty easy to envision some of the principles e.g., Rooney, Mara, and Jones becoming resentful of Kraft, in particular after not only winning super bowls but becoming such a central figure in the labor negotiations and becoming a media darling in the process. I can easily see them being resentful of the "intruder" into the long established pecking order but I can also see them reducing it to "That little _ _ _. Who the hell does he think he is" He got his comeuppance at the owners meeting but it is entirely possible the enmity expressed there had at least a tinge of anti-semitism in it. I might be entirely wrong but I never eliminate the possibility of the basest instincts of humans being in play.

I think that's kind of a reach. Do you have ANYthing that suggests this is possible?

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I think that's kind of a reach. Do you have ANYthing that suggests this is possible?

Well, to be fair, he has no less evidence than the NFL has of Brady doing anything to deflate footballs...

 

[pappymojo]

Posting this here as it's not worthy of it's own thread because the Giants won't get any penalties, but apparently the Cowboys complained after last weeks game:

"The investigation comes after a formal complaint was filed by the Cowboys, according to the Post.

Coach Ben McAdoo was seen using a walkie-talkie to relay plays to quarterback Eli Manning when the Giants were having problems with their headsets early in the fourth quarter. Coaches are not allowed to hold any two-way radios during a game, a source told ESPN."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18287921/nfl-investigating-new-york-giants-possible-illegal-use-walkie-talkie-dallas-cowboys

I give it 12 hours before the NFL clears them

I wouldnt be surprised if Goodell does something to appear to come down kind of hard on the Giants here. There has been a lot of talk about how he is in Mara's pocket. And Roger is nothing if not a petty, thin-skinned asshole who takes action based on his perception of the public's perception of him. Plus the Giants embarrassed the league in the domestic violence space and then they embarrassed the league again with deflategate 2. So Goodell needs to do something to control the marrative and to bury these distractions.

I am going to guess the Giants give up a 5th round pick for walkie-talkie-gate (but probably gets awarded two 5th round comp picks or something like that).

 

[Archer1979]

I think that's kind of a reach. Do you have ANYthing that suggests this is possible?

I wouldn't say it's anti-semitism, but I've been thinking part of the bias is the old ownership vs new. Kraft has had tremendous success in the 20 years since he came on board. It really comes down to the thinking that the Patriots couldn't be that much better than us legitimately because that thinking would suggest that there is such a wide gap in the capability of the Patriot's organization. Remember that the Pats were a laughingstock of a team prior to Kraft's acquisition. Laughingstocks are supposed to remain laughingstocks and sit in the corner.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

I wouldnt be surprised if Goodell does something to appear to come down kind of hard on the Giants here. There has been a lot of talk about how he is in Mara's pocket. And Roger is nothing if not a petty, thin-skinned asshole who takes action based on his perception of the public's perception of him. Plus the Giants embarrassed the league in the domestic violence space and then they embarrassed the league again with deflategate 2. So Goodell needs to do something to control the marrative and to bury these distractions.

I am going to guess the Giants give up a 5th round pick for walkie-talkie-gate (but probably gets awarded two 5th round comp picks or something like that).

Well they are Repeat Offenders with a history/culture of cheating
http://yourteamcheats.com/NYG

So maybe the 5th rounder gets bumped to a 4th.

 

[johnmd20]

I wouldn't say it's anti-semitism, but I've been thinking part of the bias is the old ownership vs new. Kraft has had tremendous success in the 20 years since he came on board. It really comes down to the thinking that the Patriots couldn't be that much better than us legitimately because that thinking would suggest that there is such a wide gap in the capability of the Patriot's organization. Remember that the Pats were a laughingstock of a team prior to Kraft's acquisition. Laughingstocks are supposed to remain laughingstocks and sit in the corner.

It's not old versus new. It's winning consistently versus not winning consistently. Teams are pissed the Pats have done what they have done and are sure they are cheating because nobody can be that good for so long.

Saying this is anti-semitism is an insult to all the people who have actually been abused or murdered because of literal hatred of Jewish people. Kraft is a billionaire owner of a football team and once a power broker of the league. Yeah, he's been treated horribly in his life and by the league. I wonder how he survives?

Stupid comments need to be punched in the genitals.

 

[Stitch01]

Nah, its a post factual world. Evidence is no longer required, his comment isnt insulting.

 

[Devizier]

Kate Mara = Hot

Rooney Mara + 10 lbs = Hot.

I didn't realize, until today, that these were different people.

 

[pappymojo]

It's not old versus new. It's winning consistently versus not winning consistently. Teams are pissed the Pats have done what they have done and are sure they are cheating because nobody can be that good for so long.

I am ignoring the anti-semitism stuff because why bother but as I am reading Belichick and Brady by Michael Holley (it's good if you need a present for a Patriots fan) your post reminded me of something Holley wrote in the book. The book opens as follows:

The system is one of trapdoors and tricks, meticulously rigged at its core. The appeal for its thirty-two participants is that all of them have an equal chance of winning; the trick is that it is the same game for all of them until one of them actually wins. Then the system warps, resets, and becomes half mathematical formula and half social science. So the losers gain and the winner is squeezed and told to get lost. It is a system corporately sponsored by Give Someone Else a Chance. The worse you are, the easier the course. The better you are, the more mazes you have to master. It is intentional mediocrity; identify a shining star and then bring it back to the middle.

In a sense, the National Football League has a multi-billion-dollar system build on a participation trophy premise.

The quote above is referring to how Super Bowl champions typically face tougher schedules in the follow-up seasons while having the last draft pick of the first round and having to try to retain free agents with a Super Bowl victory on their resume, but I'm sure it is also a commentary on Spygate and Deflategate.

 

[dcmissle]

Lol, he is so fucking bad at this.

Because he doesn't have to be good. Because he answers only to 32 people who don't care a bit whether he is good or bad at this. Indeed, to the extent that he is laughably bad at this, it underscores that they answer only to themselves and do not care what anyone thinks. It's fun being a pirate -- 11 year-old boys enjoy being pirates, and these guys have the emotional maturity of 11-year-old boys.

It is all very simple and anti-Semitism has nothing to do with any of it. They all are far too sophisticated for that.

This is a zero-sum game on the field. Every season brings one winner, 31 losers. The deck is stacked to distribute rewards evenly over time. The Pats have won far too often for far too long.

So, as Stich notes, this disciplinary crap is just an unjust thumb on the scale to even things out.

Why? Because owners are 11-year-old boys at heart - and kids cry when they lose.

And because the managerial class -- the GMs, head coaches, other coaches and scouting staffs -- have very lucrative jobs on the line. Jobs they would be willing to kill for. And they must have a self serving answer for why the Pats win too much - and a club to at least slow down that winning.

People here, in my view, should now be happy at this turn of events with the suspension and lost draft picks behind us. Because these events only fuel the white-hot fire of the game's GOAT QB and his phenomenal, mind-blowing level of performance at age 39.

 

[ifmanis5]

Giants were also caught 'cheating' on Sunday using walkie-talkies: http://nypost.com/2016/12/15/nfl-investigating-giants-for-possible-walkie-talkie-violation/

The radio transmitter in Manning’s helmet malfunctioned for a handful of plays early in the fourth quarter. McAdoo then used a walkie-talkie and relayed the plays into Manning.

Objectively, a minor incident that isn't a big deal. But, if this had been the Cheatriots...

 

[joe dokes]

And because the managerial class -- the GMs, head coaches, other coaches and scouting staffs -- have very lucrative jobs on the line. Jobs they would be willing to kill for. And they must have a self serving answer for why the Pats win too much - and a club to at least slow down that winning.

I think there's a lot of this. A lot of owners are clueless buffoons. So when a Trent Baalke, Les Snead, Ryan Grigson or [insert name of Jet GM here], gets called on the carpet for perpetual suckitude and is asked, "The Patriots win every goddam year and we can't even win win once, wtf" they don't say, "because the guys that their owner hired to run the team are better than the ones you hired, sir."

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Objectively, a minor incident that isn't a big deal. But, if this had been the Cheatriots...

I disagree. I think that using unapproved communications devices to circumvent the procedures in place for when the in-helmet communications devices go out is actually a pretty big deal. Eli seems to say in that article that they weren't prepared for the comms to go out (no hand signals so Beckham ran the plays in), so by using the walkie-talkies they were cheating to skirt around their own laziness. It's inherently unfair and affects the Integrity of the Game™.

 

[tims4wins]

I disagree. I think that using unapproved communications devices to circumvent the procedures in place for when the in-helmet communications devices go out is actually a pretty big deal. Eli seems to say in that article that they weren't prepared for the comms to go out (no hand signals so Beckham ran the plays in), so by using the walkie-talkies they were cheating to skirt around their own laziness. It's inherently unfair and affects the Integrity of the Game™.

When it comes down to it, this was a WORSE offense than Spygate, in that it was used in real time to gain an advantage.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

***edited bullshit fake news site.***

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

And now there's this nugget:



http://dystnow.com/2016/12/15/new-york-giants-nfl-investigation-rule-violations-vs-dallas-cowboys/

(this gets my fake news senses tingling, but hey it's out there)

That site is the only one with the story and they're notoriously inaccurate (they had Boeheim retiring years ago). There's not enough grains of salt in the world for that site.

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Duly noted. Definitely seemed fishy. I can edit it out if need be.

 

[dcmissle]

I think there's a lot of this. A lot of owners are clueless buffoons. So when a Trent Baalke, Les Snead, Ryan Grigson or [insert name of Jet GM here], gets called on the carpet for perpetual suckitude and is asked, "The Patriots win every goddam year and we can't even win win once, wtf" they don't say, "because the guys that their owner hired to run the team are better than the ones you hired, sir."

If anything in this life is certain, if history has taught us anything, when the stakes are disproportionately high and there's too much money involved, people will act like assholes and ruin nice things.

It's not totally new: Did the NFL and the Rooneys do right by Mike Webster?

http://www.rd.com/health/conditions/mike-webster-brain-injury/

But now it's worse. The game has been tarnished, in my opinion, by the instant replay addiction because we just "have" to get everything "right." They serve up horrific football on Thursday nights, and we consume it. The League just has to big foot every one of the 52 weeks. They pay idiots $5 million a year to pontificate and create faux outrage on cable -- and we watch them.

So the fact that the owners and managerial class behave like CIA/KGB clones while dispensing Mob justice is not at all surprising.

The message to Kraft could not be more clear: *You're in the family; you'll take it and you'll like it.*

If I were Bob I'll tell Jonathan to keep his mouth shut - but threaten to sic my President-elect friend on them if there is any more BS. (Trump loves this kind of crap - no insult is too slight, no scrap too small). But that's not how Bawb rolls; he's too nice.

 

[DavidTai]

I'm wondering if Bob and Jonathan -really- would take a chance on this one:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/16/stage-is-set-for-deflategate-iii-if-patriots-are-willing-to-push-it/

 

[Zincman]

Let me be clear. I tried to word my original post very carefully. I tried to suggest, that amidst all the speculation on the motives of the NFL owners, there remained a possibility that bias was a contributing factor. I even stated at the end that I could be entirely wrong. Of course, I have no evidence since I don't hang out with Jerry, Ziggy, et. al. but I think the consideration of bias as contributing factor is valid. I base this on my 72 years of life experience and my understanding of history and it shows me that the basest of motives are all too common. I have no evidence that race played any factor in the right's enmity for President Obama but I don't dismiss it. That and my bias speculation about Kraft were not intended to insult anyone and I don't believe I did.

 

[Marciano490]

I am ignoring the anti-semitism stuff because why bother but as I am reading Belichick and Brady by Michael Holley (it's good if you need a present for a Patriots fan) your post reminded me of something Holley wrote in the book. The book opens as follows:



The quote above is referring to how Super Bowl champions typically face tougher schedules in the follow-up seasons while having the last draft pick of the first round and having to try to retain free agents with a Super Bowl victory on their resume, but I'm sure it is also a commentary on Spygate and Deflategate.

I'm impressed. I had no idea Holley was such a good writer.

 

[jimbobim]

I'm wondering if Bob and Jonathan -really- would take a chance on this one:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/16/stage-is-set-for-deflategate-iii-if-patriots-are-willing-to-push-it/

I wouldn't do it in a million years.

Also Mike Florio Out fucking standing in this piece

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/12/16/mike-florio-on-omf-nfl-protocol-issues-this-week-prove-there-was-persecution-against-patriots-with-deflategate/

“How is it then that it’s not a bigger deal and how big of a deal would it be if the it was the Patriots? I think those are fair questions,” Florio said. “I think there’s a lot of people out there that say it’s Patriots fans again, they are persecuted, but it’s getting to the point where there is a persecution. The way Deflategate was handled was so shameful and now they are running scared from it 23 months later.

I don’t know whether it’s a resentment of the Patriots, a dislike of Bill Belichick, a desire to maintain a good relationship with the league office, I don’t know. Laziness? A lack of intelligence? Refusal to go back on things we’ve already said?

“Once we lock into our hot takes, it’s a lot to give up on a hot take. A lot of times circling our own wagons in the media and defending the dumb things we’ve said, instead of opening our mind and saying we’re wrong and maybe there’s more information out there to change our minds.

 

[Harry Hooper]

When it comes down to it, this was a WORSE offense than Spygate, in that it was used in real time to gain an advantage.

Indeed, plus there's a clearly specified alternate procedure that is regularly invoked whenever the comms are on the fritz. No one can claim ignorance on the Giants side. The Cleveland GM got a 4-game suspension from the Commish for inappropriate communications during actual game competition.

 

[tims4wins]

Yeah a 4 game suspension to the GM is hell of a punishment

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Bill would have the ass of anybody on his sideline who whined about ball pressure, and I would personally think a hell of a lot less of the team if they did it.

League would leak the Pats' narcbabywhine complaint while burying the damning results of any test (that probably wouldn't even take place). How does that help?

 

[ifmanis5]

Also Mike Florio Out fucking standing in this piece

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2016/12/16/mike-florio-on-omf-nfl-protocol-issues-this-week-prove-there-was-persecution-against-patriots-with-deflategate/
“Once we lock into our hot takes, it’s a lot to give up on a hot take. A lot of times circling our own wagons in the media and defending the dumb things we’ve said, instead of opening our mind and saying we’re wrong and maybe there’s more information out there to change our minds.

Great thing to say in public and can't be said enough. Applies to more than sports, too.

 

[djbayko]

I'm wondering if Bob and Jonathan -really- would take a chance on this one:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/12/16/stage-is-set-for-deflategate-iii-if-patriots-are-willing-to-push-it/

Please no. The balls would be locked in a warm room and measured sometime after the game, and the NFL would use the numbers to further taunt the Patriots publicly.

 

[cshea]

Or the Pats test a ball themselves and the league hits them with the "no testing the balls" rule that they ignored with the Colts and Giants. Then they take a 25K fine and elevate it to draft picks and fines in the millions because "priors."

 

[Ralphwiggum]

God I hope that the Pats would not be stupid enough to bring this shit back up again by complaining about footballs being under-inflated. There is no way that turns out good for the Pats. Let the few lone voices of sanity in the media continue to push it on your behalf, but as an organization even if they had proof positive that someone else was deflating footballs I'd rather have them just let it go.

 

[DJnVa]

You'd think an enterprising reporter would bring their own football. Inflate it to 12.5 or whatever at the start of the game and track it all game long.

I mean, I know that WE know what it will show, but why someone won't actually do this is interesting.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Giants were also caught 'cheating' on Sunday using walkie-talkies: http://nypost.com/2016/12/15/nfl-investigating-giants-for-possible-walkie-talkie-violation/

Objectively, a minor incident that isn't a big deal. But, if this had been the Cheatriots...

 

[bankshot1]

Francesa just went on a rant when a caller said the Giants were cheating re the walkie-talkies. And went ballistic and accused the caller of being a Pats fan, and the Pats invented cheating, and "routinely jammed frequencies" of the communications devices.

 

[Marciano490]

Pereira, who I always thought of as a toadie, is now hypothesizing that on-field officials are receiving advice from replay officials through their headphones in violation of league rules. That's how many scandals this week?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mike-pereira-nfl-breaking-its-own-rules-says-refs-getting-illegal-advice-on-headsets/

 

[soxhop411]

Pereira, who I always thought of as a toadie, is now hypothesizing that on-field officials are receiving advice from replay officials through their headphones in violation of league rules. That's how many scandals this week?

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/mike-pereira-nfl-breaking-its-own-rules-says-refs-getting-illegal-advice-on-headsets/

Zero. Because the NFL is sweeping them all under the rug. And the NFL media is too chicken to call the league out (expect for a few writers)


Example: ESPN

 

[Marciano490]

I'm surprised by the balls on Pereira. Whenever I hear him, he seems to be bending over backwards to justify whatever the refs call. Good for him. I'll shake his hand next week when he's a barista at my local Starbucks.

 

[TFP]

I'm surprised by the balls on Pereira. Whenever I hear him, he seems to be bending over backwards to justify whatever the refs call. Good for him. I'll shake his hand next week when he's a barista at my local Starbucks.

He's often bending over backwards for refs but not the league. He hates the NFL office and is not fond of Goodell either.