Greened Illusion: Lebron to the Celtics

BigSoxFan

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Assuming the list is real or close to real, I am going to give my early handicap from least likely to most:

Miami: Would be the weirdest reunion. There are no other stars to play with and you're competing with Boston/Philly for the foreseeable future just to get out of the East. Just can't picture this at all.

Warriors: The Decision I still probably wears on LeBron a little bit and he saw the crap that Durant got for joining a super team. I think he's too image conscious to make this move even though it would give him best chance at tying or surpassing Jordan's 6 titles.

Celtics: All the ingredients are there but he just doesn't seem interested. Could be lingering issues from 2010, could be the city's reputation, could be that he likes beating us all the time - who knows. Whatever the reason, just feels like a longshot. With Durant, I actually felt like we had a real shot. Don't get that feeling with LeBron but that won't stop me from obsessively following this story next month.

Rockets: Has always felt like a weird fit to me. I know he's friends with CP3 but the guy is 34 and always hurt. If the main goal is to win more titles (which it obviously is), Rockets obviously make some sense in the short term but there's more risk here. Would LeBron like playing with Harden? Perhaps. Not sure what kind of relationship they have.

Cavs: He's already left before so don't think it will weigh on him nearly as much this time and he did bring them a title so he doesn't "owe" the fans anything. Barring something unforeseen, he'd be riding out his prime years with Kevin Love as the 2nd best player and that obviously ain't good enough. The Nets pick landing at #8 probably killed any chance of him staying in Cleveland. They just don't have the pieces to form a real threat to the Warriors. Given the state of the Celtics/Sixers, it literally is all downhill from here for Cleveland. I think LeBron has mentally moved on and now he's just trying to figure out where to go.

Sixers: There are young stars and flexibility to mold the roster how he wants it. He also stays in the East and avoids the Warriors until the Finals. Ample opportunities to take out the Celtics, which I suspect he really enjoys.

Lakers: This has been my feeling all along. The allure of Magic and the history of the Lakers will be attractive to him. There is cap space and some nice tradable pieces that GM LeBron can use to get his team more competitive quicker. Paul George or Kawhi would almost certainly be joining him, which would be enough to challenge the Warriors (no team in the next 2-3 years will ever be favored over the Warriors so you can't worry about that). The Warriors/Lakers turns into a huge rivalry for the NBA and LeBron's brand gets even bigger.
 

bankshot1

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Why shouldn't LeBron conduct his own due diligence? Talk with Danny and Brad and pick their brains and assess them as both a team to join and one to compete against.

and he gets another shot to screw with KI's head.
 

GoDa

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I've already convinced myself the C's are winning 70+ with their returning team... Lebron would have to push that to 75+.

I'm more inclined to want to beat him vs. having him join... but I could see Boston being a pretty chill landing spot. Instead of having to BE the man every night - he could pick and choose his spots. If he wanted to relax for a few nights and dish out 15 assists, letting everyone else do the scoring... no problemo! Annoyed with teammates that are old/slow or don't like to defend? Not a problem in Boston. Want a hungry team? Check. Coaching upgrade? Got that covered.
 

DJnVa

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Now, if this does bear fruit, I wonder if it's simply "I have a lot of respect for that organization and Coach Stevens, so I felt it would be good to see what they had to say." That's where I am on it.

And a disclaimer for any future posts in this thread if this heats up: Lebron is the GOAT. Yes I would root for him and talk so much shit to others it wouldn't be funny. However, I *really* want to root for Kyrie, Tatum, Hayward, and Brown next year on the same team.
 

DJnVa

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Couple twitter guys I follow weren't really buying the Sixers---"Can you imagine Lebron basically spending 10 months with a bunch of 19-23 year olds? Seems like an odd fit."
 

AimingForYoko

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The same Stephen A. Smith who wanted to trade Kyrie to keep Rozier. K.

This shit makes my head hurt and not in a fun way. I need Lebron to lose already and make his damn decision.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Lakers: This has been my feeling all along. The allure of Magic and the history of the Lakers will be attractive to him. There is cap space and some nice tradable pieces that GM LeBron can use to get his team more competitive quicker. Paul George or Kawhi would almost certainly be joining him, which would be enough to challenge the Warriors (no team in the next 2-3 years will ever be favored over the Warriors so you can't worry about that). The Warriors/Lakers turns into a huge rivalry for the NBA and LeBron's brand gets even bigger.
Not much to argue with you on your list; one other thing about LAL is that LBJ's post-BBall life is going to center around his burgeoning media empire so going to LAL would help him get a leg up on this.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The obvious answer is that Boston's on the map for him because he just saw a Boston team without its two best offensive players come close to knocking him off - carried by a 20 year old rising star. And I think he could see himself working well with Horford, Tatum, Hayward, and whomever is left after the deal.

I still don't really see it happening. But there would be some logic behind it.
 

TheoShmeo

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LeBron has voiced his respect for Brad Stephens repeatedly and the Celts are a real contender. Unless LeBron hates Boston as a city or resents the fans, he would be foolish not to kick the tires.

Separately, if he signs with the Warriors, and they field a team that includes him, Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson, I don’t know why anyone other than Warriors fans would bother to watch the NBA. Absent injury, that team’s loss count wouldn’t touch double digits, and I’m including the regular season and playoffs in that.
 

djbayko

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Separately, if he signs with the Warriors, and they field a team that includes him, Curry, Durant, Green and Thompson, I don’t know why anyone other than Warriors fans would bother to watch the NBA. Absent injury, that team’s loss count wouldn’t touch double digits, and I’m including the regular season and playoffs in that.
Yes, and that's with giving all of them significant rest during the regular season.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Couple twitter guys I follow weren't really buying the Sixers---"Can you imagine Lebron basically spending 10 months with a bunch of 19-23 year olds? Seems like an odd fit."
The Sixers would obviously restructure their roster so I don't really view this as much of a factor even if I'm not sold on LeBron going to Philly at all (Hou 1, LA 2). Only Simmons and Fultz are under 24 and in my vision/scenario of a LeBron-led Sixers team neither of them would be there.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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LeBron has voiced his respect for Brad Stephens repeatedly and the Celts are a real contender. Unless LeBron hates Boston as a city or resents the fans, he would be foolish not to kick the tires.
James is also partners with John Henry and Tom Werner in the Fenway Sports Group business, though I suspect Lebron's future interest in LA-based business opportunities would exceed that connection.

Edit: And if you want to go completely nuts, how about this quote from LeBron when he signed on at Fenway Sports group, where he applauded the history and success of the Liverpool EPL franchise:
"Eighteen championships," James said to the Journal regarding Liverpool's success. "I see myself trying to do the same things they have."
Remind me... how many championships do the Celtics currently have?
 
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cheech13

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Holy shit, the Warriors. They could do it with Iggy/Livingston/Bell, but I don’t know if Gilbert will play along. He might spite himself a bit to screw LeBron.

I mean come on.
There's no way Cleveland agrees to that. They'd be better off letting him walk for the cap relief. Now, if the Warriors want to put Klay and Draymond on the table... that's interesting.
 

LondonSox

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So we have heard nothing about the Celtics until now, he's playing in the finals and not talking to anyone, and STEPHEN A SMITH drops the cletics and you guys all eat it up.

Lol. You guys new to this?
 

Kliq

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If LeBron joined the Celtics they would be put in a much better position to win a championship than if he joins another team. That part of the LeBron experience would be awesome.

Everything else about it would suck. I don't particularly like watching LeBron, as amazing as he is; bluntly power his way to the basket on drives, complain about calls, create drama off the court, and dominate the franchise. Yeah the Celtics could very well win a championship if he came; but I really just don't want to root for the guy. I also think the Celtics would have demolished Cleveland this year if they were healthy and next year with the kids another year older; they are in great shape and don't need to be courting LeBron the way some of these other pathetic franchises will try to do.

I wouldn't be against LeBron coming here, because he would help my team win. But it would be kind of lame.
 

DJnVa

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So we have heard nothing about the Celtics until now, he's playing in the finals and not talking to anyone, and STEPHEN A SMITH drops the cletics and you guys all eat it up.

Lol. You guys new to this?
Jesus, you know this is almost a throw-away thread right? Broken out of the main Celtics one? Do you not understand what we do here? It's like every day you are a baby bird and shocked at what you see. Relax.
 

BigSoxFan

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If LeBron joined the Celtics they would be put in a much better position to win a championship than if he joins another team. That part of the LeBron experience would be awesome.

Everything else about it would suck. I don't particularly like watching LeBron, as amazing as he is; bluntly power his way to the basket on drives, complain about calls, create drama off the court, and dominate the franchise. Yeah the Celtics could very well win a championship if he came; but I really just don't want to root for the guy. I also think the Celtics would have demolished Cleveland this year if they were healthy and next year with the kids another year older; they are in great shape and don't need to be courting LeBron the way some of these other pathetic franchises will try to do.

I wouldn't be against LeBron coming here, because he would help my team win. But it would be kind of lame.
Rockets
Warriors
Lakers
Sixers
Cavs
Heat

What a bunch of pathetic franchises! Seriously?

LeBron is the best player in the game. Not courting him if you have a slight chance is just dumb.
 

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For this theoretical move to happen (i.e. LBJ to Boston), and please forgive my ignorance on the nuances of NBA cap/trade provisions, but it would be a sign-and-trade, right? With the Celtics sending beaucoup bucks back to Cleveland to be within some % of LBJ's super-max deal, right?

So such a trade would likely require either Hayward, Horford or Kyrie heading to Cleveland, and in the case of KI, along with some other cap fodder, right?

So taking them one by one:
  • Celts send Hayward. From Cleveland's perspective, probably the best of the three in terms of age, talent, and control, but even with that Cleveland likely wants more, no? From Boston's perspective, GH and LBJ play nominally the same position so the other pieces can remain. But how much downside from a PR side (not just with fans, but with players and agents) is there if Danny trades his big FA signing after all that happened to get him here and then in Game One of the season?
  • Celts send Horford. Maybe Cleveland likes this because Al could (!) opt out and free up salary in a year. But Cleveland would need a lot more going their way. From Boston's perspective, they lose their best defensive player and the guy who makes a lot of what Stephens does work.
  • Celts send Irving. Again, Cleveland may like the opt-out potential. But they may also fear it as they could end up with nothing in a year. Celts would likely have to add more talent to offset that risk. From Boston POV, they lose their best shot-creator, but those who were saying that Scary Terry could replace 75% of KI at 67% of salary would be happy. Helps avoid a return of any LBJ/KI conflict, assuming that really was the source of KI's unhappiness in Cleveland.
I'm sure I'm missing a lot here, so help me fill in the blanks on HOW an LBJ to Boston acquisition could realistically happen.
 

Kliq

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Rockets
Warriors
Lakers
Sixers
Cavs
Heat

What a bunch of pathetic franchises! Seriously?

LeBron is the best player in the game. Not courting him if you have a slight chance is just dumb.
I said some of those teams are pathetic; and I would certainly argue that over the last five seasons the Cavs and the Lakers have been pathetic, and you could argue Philly has been as well.

I'm not saying that the Celtics are wrong for possibly attempting to get LeBron, obviously it is the right move. I just wouldn't be that excited about it as a fan of the franchise.
 

RedOctober3829

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For this theoretical move to happen (i.e. LBJ to Boston), and please forgive my ignorance on the nuances of NBA cap/trade provisions, but it would be a sign-and-trade, right? With the Celtics sending beaucoup bucks back to Cleveland to be within some % of LBJ's super-max deal, right?

So such a trade would likely require either Hayward, Horford or Kyrie heading to Cleveland, and in the case of KI, along with some other cap fodder, right?

So taking them one by one:
  • Celts send Hayward. From Cleveland's perspective, probably the best of the three in terms of age, talent, and control, but even with that Cleveland likely wants more, no? From Boston's perspective, GH and LBJ play nominally the same position so the other pieces can remain. But how much downside from a PR side (not just with fans, but with players and agents) is there if Danny trades his big FA signing after all that happened to get him here and then in Game One of the season?
  • Celts send Horford. Maybe Cleveland likes this because Al could (!) opt out and free up salary in a year. But Cleveland would need a lot more going their way. From Boston's perspective, they lose their best defensive player and the guy who makes a lot of what Stephens does work.
  • Celts send Irving. Again, Cleveland may like the opt-out potential. But they may also fear it as they could end up with nothing in a year. Celts would likely have to add more talent to offset that risk. From Boston POV, they lose their best shot-creator, but those who were saying that Scary Terry could replace 75% of KI at 67% of salary would be happy. Helps avoid a return of any LBJ/KI conflict, assuming that really was the source of KI's unhappiness in Cleveland.
I'm sure I'm missing a lot here, so help me fill in the blanks on HOW an LBJ to Boston acquisition could realistically happen.
3 Sign and trades that should match money wise: 1. Hayward/Rozier, 2. Horford/Rozier/Yabu, 3. Kyrie/Morris/Yabu/Nader/Ojeleye/Theis(guaranteeing the last 3 guys). I'm not exactly sure how close the money has to be but LBJ is making $35 million next year so you have to get close.

Obviously, a boatload of picks would have to be included too.
 

BigSoxFan

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I said some of those teams are pathetic; and I would certainly argue that over the last five seasons the Cavs and the Lakers have been pathetic, and you could argue Philly has been as well.

I'm not saying that the Celtics are wrong for possibly attempting to get LeBron, obviously it is the right move. I just wouldn't be that excited about it as a fan of the franchise.
I reserve the pathetic label for franchises like the Kings and Magic. But regardless, I find it fascinating that some wouldn’t be excited for LeBron. You’re certainly not alone but I think LeBron to Celtics would be incredibly entertaining, even moreso than the Big 3. Watching LeBron/Horford/Tatum/Brown/Hayward carve up the league with Stevens leading the way would be basketball porn for me.
 

djbayko

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I reserve the pathetic label for franchises like the Kings and Magic. But regardless, I find it fascinating that some wouldn’t be excited for LeBron. You’re certainly not alone but I think LeBron to Celtics would be incredibly entertaining, even moreso than the Big 3. Watching LeBron/Horford/Tatum/Brown/Hayward carve up the league with Stevens leading the way would be basketball porn for me.
Everything changes the moment he is (hypothetically) traded here. I'm with Kliq. I don't want him, but if he ends up here, of course I'm going to enjoy the hell out of it.

The Celtics obviously have to entertain this option and actively court him if there's a real opportunity to steal him from the other contenders without mortgaging our future. But I'd rather things not work out and we win anyways.

Yes, he one of the greatest ever, and almost certainly the most freakish athlete we've ever seen on the court, blah, blah, blah.
 
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the moops

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Not much to argue with you on your list; one other thing about LAL is that LBJ's post-BBall life is going to center around his burgeoning media empire so going to LAL would help him get a leg up on this.
I never buy this sort of thing. Lebron is already the biggest damn star in the league and lives there in the offseason. It's not as if there are enough off days during the season for him to cut deals and shit. He also has people that do that stuff for him. This isn't the 80's anymore where you really had to be in NYC or LA to make stuff happen.
 

Ed Hillel

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So we have heard nothing about the Celtics until now, he's playing in the finals and not talking to anyone, and STEPHEN A SMITH drops the cletics and you guys all eat it up.

Lol. You guys new to this?
Has anyone worth a salt mentioned Philly? Everyone assumes Philly because it’s his best chance to win or something, but that clearly isn’t true. At least 3-4 teams offer better prospects than Philly. So why is he going there?
 

djbayko

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I never buy this sort of thing. Lebron is already the biggest damn star in the league and lives there in the offseason. It's not as if there are enough off days during the season for him to cut deals and shit. He also has people that do that stuff for him. This isn't the 80's anymore where you really had to be in NYC or LA to make stuff happen.
Isn't the idea having a built-in home town market full of fans with immense buying power?
 

mikeot

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I don't particularly like watching LeBron, as amazing as he is; bluntly power his way to the basket on drives, complain about calls, create drama off the court, and dominate the franchise. Yeah the Celtics could very well win a championship if he came; but I really just don't want to root for the guy. I also think the Celtics would have demolished Cleveland this year if they were healthy and next year with the kids another year older; they are in great shape and don't need to be courting LeBron the way some of these other pathetic franchises will try to do.

I wouldn't be against LeBron coming here...
I would. I love the grit of this young team as it exists, its cohesion and Brad’s brilliance; add just an up-and-coming big and the sky’s the limit for possibly the next decade. I’d much prefer this to a title run or two with an aging James and the soap opera that would entail.
 
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cheech13

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Has anyone worth a salt mentioned Philly? Everyone assumes Philly because it’s his best chance to win or something, but that clearly isn’t true. At least 3-4 teams offer better prospects than Philly. So why is he going there?
Philadelphia is the only competitive team that has the means to sign him outright (other than Cleveland through Bird rights). Los Angeles has the money, but they stink and they'd have to lure other star players as part of their pitch. Houston offers the chance to compete right away, but it requires serious salary cap gymnastics to make it happen. Same is true to an extent for Boston, Golden State and Miami.

There is no other team that offers the combination of young talent (two under-25 superstars in Embiid and Simmons), salary cap space, movable contracts (Covington, Saric, Fultz), and extra draft picks (including #10 this year). Lebron could sign there outright and they'd still have the ammo to get Kawhi or George to team with him. Plus they play in the East which offers the added benefit of avoiding Golden State and Houston. The only issue is that the individual talents of Simmons, Embiid and Lebron don't mesh all that well, at least on paper.
 
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Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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I'd rather keep Kyrie and run with this core for the next decade(minus Al, eventually), but I'd sure as shit root enthusiastically for LeBron if the team decided to trade for him. Hell, I desperately wanted them to sign Durant, and he's seemed like more of a putz over the past couple of years than LBJ has been.
I'd pretty much root for anyone other than Jeter.
 

JCizzle

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I'd rather keep Kyrie and run with this core for the next decade(minus Al, eventually), but I'd sure as shit root enthusiastically for LeBron if the team decided to trade for him. Hell, I desperately wanted them to sign Durant, and he's seemed like more of a putz over the past couple of years than LBJ has been.
I'd pretty much root for anyone other than Jeter.
Yeah, I agree with this entirely.
 

Reverend

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I reserve the pathetic label for franchises like the Kings and Magic. But regardless, I find it fascinating that some wouldn’t be excited for LeBron. You’re certainly not alone but I think LeBron to Celtics would be incredibly entertaining, even moreso than the Big 3. Watching LeBron/Horford/Tatum/Brown/Hayward carve up the league with Stevens leading the way would be basketball porn for me.
You're not at all wrong. In fact, you're totally right. But it looks like people already downloaded something in the mean time.

So you're left as the guy shouting about Doctor Zhivago to a room full of people who already voted to watch Star Wars.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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The Sixers would obviously restructure their roster so I don't really view this as much of a factor even if I'm not sold on LeBron going to Philly at all (Hou 1, LA 2). Only Simmons and Fultz are under 24 and in my vision/scenario of a LeBron-led Sixers team neither of them would be there.
Yeah both those guys are gone in a heartbeat along with anyone else needed to bring in a 3rd veteran star to go with himself and Embiid. He’s not waiting for them to learn to shoot and defend, and they aren’t the guys right now to take the load off him. Hell in this scenario they have to at least call NO and see if they’d entertain Embiid for Davis.

Philly is the cleanest scenario as the team with a star, space, and assets to burn. Not necessarily the best, just the cleanest. LA has the latter two but not the first, which may not matter if he wants to handpick his teammates again anyway. Houston has only the first but if he wants to play there, it’s hard to imagine them not finding a way to make it happen.
 
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johnmd20

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I said some of those teams are pathetic; and I would certainly argue that over the last five seasons the Cavs and the Lakers have been pathetic, and you could argue Philly has been as well.

I'm not saying that the Celtics are wrong for possibly attempting to get LeBron, obviously it is the right move. I just wouldn't be that excited about it as a fan of the franchise.
The Cavs have made the finals in the last 4 years. You call that pathetic. I think you're lost in the sauce here.
 

mcpickl

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SAS is a top notch NBA source, and I’m not being facetious. If he says LeBron is meeting with those teams, LeBron is meeting with those teams. It’s crazy to me people think Boston wouldn’t be on his list. We were probably Durant’s second choice two years ago, and all Danny has done since then is improve the roster extensively.
No he's not.

The last time he did this he said Durant was looking to move to the Lakers when he was a free agent, Durant laughed at him and fit him for a pair of clown shoes he deserves.

Lakers couldn't even get a meeting.

SAS is just a dude who says things.

If it's not from Woj, Zach Lowe, or maybe in Lebrons' case Windhorst, it's pretty much worthless. Always worthless from SAS/
 

Kliq

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The Cavs have made the finals in the last 4 years. You call that pathetic. I think you're lost in the sauce here.
Minus James Cleveland has been the definition of a pathetic franchise for 20+ years. They have completely bent over backwards to LeBron and done basically whatever he wanted; from hiring a yes man coach to handing out big contracts to role players.
 

johnmd20

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Minus James Cleveland has been the definition of a pathetic franchise for 20+ years. They have completely bent over backwards to LeBron and done basically whatever he wanted; from hiring a yes man coach to handing out big contracts to role players.
Ok, sure. Minus Bill Russel the Celtics don't win 100 straight championships.

Here's the thing, Cleveland has had Lebron for almost his entire career. You can't erase him from the equation.
 

djbayko

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Ok, sure. Minus Bill Russel the Celtics don't win 100 straight championships.

Here's the thing, Cleveland has had Lebron for almost his entire career. You can't erase him from the equation.
In the context of courting Lebron and his decision, I think you should because he's the variable - a free agent who is looking for his best option..
 

Ed Hillel

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Philadelphia is the only competitive team that has the means to sign him outright (other than Cleveland through Bird rights). Los Angeles has the money, but they stink and they'd have to lure other star players as part of their pitch. Houston offers the chance to compete right away, but it requires serious salary cap gymnastics to make it happen. Same is true to an extent for Boston, Golden State and Miami.

There is no other team that offers the combination of young talent (two under-25 superstars in Embiid and Simmons), salary cap space, movable contracts (Covington, Saric, Fultz), and extra draft picks (including #10 this year). Lebron could sign there outright and they'd still have the ammo to get Kawhi or George to team with him. Plus they play in the East which offers the added benefit of avoiding Golden State and Houston. The only issue is that the individual talents of Simmons, Embiid and Lebron don't mesh all that well, at least on paper.
“Salary cap gymnastics” means trading Kyrie, Morris, and a bench guy. Maybe the Sac or Memphis pick, too, but it’s not all that difficult. That’s a roster of LeBron/Hayward/Horford/Brown/Tatum/Smart/Rozier/Theis/whomever. Rozier can easily be traded for something, as well. Either way, it’s an insane roster that nobody but Golden State can top, and he’d be playing for probably the best coach in the NBA.
 

LondonSox

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Has anyone worth a salt mentioned Philly? Everyone assumes Philly because it’s his best chance to win or something, but that clearly isn’t true. At least 3-4 teams offer better prospects than Philly. So why is he going there?
Huh? As in why do people think LeBron might go to Philly? Read the thread

Jesus, you know this is almost a throw-away thread right? Broken out of the main Celtics one? Do you not understand what we do here? It's like every day you are a baby bird and shocked at what you see. Relax.
Why do I need to relax about dozens of posts sparked by a Stephen a Smith comment?

I laughed. You tell me to relax and not react to everything.
I... Wot?
 

snowmanny

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In the context of courting Lebron and his decision, I think you should because he's the variable - a free agent who is looking for his best option..

The problem is, we don't really know his priorities. Is it:

1) Being on a very good team? That could be anyone.
2) Being on a team with a fighting chance to win a title? That's Philly without another star added.
3) Being on a team with a really really good chance to win a title? That's Houston, GS, Boston and also Philly with George/Kawhi
4) Making the most money?
5) Setting up his next career?
6) Receiving the least criticism possible for his next decision?
7) Playing with particular other players?
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Portsmouth, NH
Huh? As in why do people think LeBron might go to Philly? Read the thread
Ed can speak for himself obviously, but I think he meant that all the talk about him going to Philly is the same as we’ve brought up here - it’s a fit and an easy one. It hadn’t been mentioned previously by anyone connected until it was said in same breath as Celtics. So the dream scenarios of either are on equal footing and were so even before SAS piped up, in that they were all speculation by us in our basements.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
42,420
Why would you mess with a team that is already going to go 82-0 next year?

Fuck this. We don't need him. We need to beat him. And we're finally in a position to do it. Unless the injury Gods decide to stick it directly in our ass and twist again next year, I'm putting a small fortune on the C's to win the whole thing at 8:1 odds and about 2 months into the season, everyone is going to be wishing they could get those odds when they see what this team is doing.

I just don't see Danny doing this. He's spent years building this team from top to bottom, and just when they are in a position to make the leap, he's going to dismantle it for one guy (the GOAT, yes, but still one guy), who you have no idea will mess with Brad and the other young guys? You're going to dump Kyrie after what he did last year and how he took to the City?

Fuck this noise. 82-0.