Hamels: Nothing Is Happening Right Now

[Corsi]

CLEARWATER, Fla. -- The Rangers and Padres were among teams to at least “kick the tires” on the Phillies' returning pitching ace Cliff Lee over the winter. But the Red Sox have a much more obvious need for a frontline starter now and are also known to like Lee, and with Boston and Philadelphia still believed to be at a standstill in their Cole Hamels talks, it is fair to wonder whether Lee could become a consideration for them.
 
Lee might make an interesting alterative to Hamels with that trade discussion still believed stalled over Boston's apparent willingness to part with either of the Phillies' two big requests, either catching prospect Blake Swihart or second baseman/outfielder Mookie Betts. The sides could continue to try to make it work, perhaps with different prospects, such as young catcher Christian Vazquez, pitching prospect Henry Owens or others, but there's no evidence Philly has come off its first two requests.
 
Depending on the health and early performance of Lee, who is said to look superb so far in spring as he returns from his injury-racked 2014 season, could make sense for Boston since his backloaded contract should preclude any thought of someone such as Swihart or Betts being in the trade picture. The sides do seem to have potential matches for either pitcher on the main pieces, and maybe even a secondary piece, as well, as word is the Phillies wouldn't mind bringing back old Philly hero Shane Victorino, whose position in a crowded Bosox outfield appears tenuous.
 
The Red Sox need an ace, and most of the talk so far has involved Hamels, who has the advantages of being younger than Lee, having a more palatable salary and no injury question. But while Boston people aren't as familiar as Texas with Lee, who they love and seemingly have had interest in bringing back since he left for Philly as a free agent, behind the scenes Red Sox people also have only praise for Lee as a pitcher. They've also noticed how impressive he's looked thus far this spring.
 
“He's hard not to like,” one Red Sox person said.
 
However, another Boston official still characterized the Lee possibility as a “long shot,” which really shouldn't be a surprise since Lee will have to show he's healthy following an injury-plagued 2014 season when he went 4-5 with a 3.65 ERA. One plus to Lee though: Unlike even Hamels, he has a big track record pitching in the American League, with both the Mariners and Rangers.
 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25080186/with-hamels-talk-stalled-would-red-sox-consider-lee-who-looks-strong

 

[MakMan44]

Hmm. I don't think I'd do Shane and Owens for Lee without the Phillies picking a large portion of that tab (nearly all of it) but I think there's a deal there that makes some sense for both sides if Lee shows he's healthy in ST. 

 

[SeanBerry]

And y'know, the Indians. 
 
Where he won a Cy Young.

 

[Bigpupp]

Cliff Lee's contact is pretty bad from a actual cost standpoint, but not too bad cap wise. It looks like it is $24 Million against the cap this year and only $15 million against the cap next year if the option vests. Not too bad if he is healthy and effective.

 

[sackamano]

Cliff Lee gets $25 million this year and $27.5 Million in 2016 if one of three options vest.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league/philadelphia-phillies/

 

[E5 Yaz]

Tim Britton ‏@TimBritton  12s12 seconds ago
Henry talked a lot about being "discerning" with finances and being more willing to take risks on younger players than older.

 

[Snoop Soxy Dogg]

Cliff Lee gets $25 million this year and $27.5 Million in 2016 if one of three options vest.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league/philadelphia-phillies/

 
 

 
Tim Britton ‏@TimBritton  12s12 seconds ago
Henry talked a lot about being "discerning" with finances and being more willing to take risks on younger players than older.
 

 
Pretty good with the timing there, E5. Yeah, I have a hard time seeing where Cliff Lee works out here, unless the Phillies pick up at least half the money (and the vesting option makes the assessment of value rather problematic, as we saw from the Papelbon trade). And I haven't seen a ton in Amaro's recent track record to think he'd pick up half the contract (for example) and get a midlevel prospect. He'll probably say he doesn't "need to" trade Cliff Lee and ask for Moncada.. 

 

[Bigpupp]

Cliff Lee gets $25 million this year and $27.5 Million in 2016 if one of three options vest.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/national-league/philadelphia-phillies/

Right. And because his buyout (12.5 million) was spread out for the luxury tax in the first 5 years on the deal then he will only count for $15 million against the cap next year. Not saying that makes him worth it, you still have to pay 27.5 out of pocket, but it makes it a little more palatable.

 

[chrisfont9]

 

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/25080186/with-hamels-talk-stalled-would-red-sox-consider-lee-who-looks-strong

 

Victorino? With one year left on an expensive deal, going to a rebuilding club? I mean, sure, he can go if need be, but why would Amaro do this? Does having Shane play 75 games or so sell a bunch of season tickets?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Maybe rather than give the Sox 13mil in a trade, they can take Vic back instead, hope he returns to form and flip him at the deadline.

 

[Remagellan]

If Lee were indeed healthy, he is the better option than Hamels assuming the price is much less in terms of prospects.  I'm sure if this team could get a true ace on a two year or three year deal for $25 or so million dollars per to supplement the pitching they're developing, they do that deal every two or three years as needed until the world ended.  

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

If Lee were indeed healthy, he is the better option than Hamels assuming the price is much less in terms of prospects.  I'm sure if this team could get a true ace on a two year or three year deal for $25 or so million dollars per to supplement the pitching they're developing, they do that deal every two or three years as needed until the world ended.  

If Lee is healthy what makes you think RAJ would settle for less of a return than Hamels? I know age and contract and all that but this is also the same GM that was asking for top prospects last year for Marlon Byrd and is asking teams for top prospects for Papelbon. In order to get him to trade Lee or Hamels it needs to be perceived as a long term win for Philadelphia.

 

[soxhop411]

@Sean_McAdam: Source: @RedSox have 'no sense of urgency' to make trade for Cole Hamels. http://t.co/u8Db0GoIG7 #redsoxtalk


FORT MYERS, Fla. -- The Red Sox continue to closely monitor the Cole Hamels situation with the Philadelphia Phillies, but, according to an industry source, "there's no sense of urgency'' to get a deal done soon for the lefty starter.

The Red Sox have been mentioned as a potential landing spot for Hamels since last season. When Hamels recently told USA Today that he would prefer being dealt to a contender and, further, would welcome a deal to Boston, speculation grew that a trade could get done before the start of the season to give the Sox the front-of-the-rotation starter they currently lack.

Another source said the Sox are known to have made their interest in Hamels clear to the Phillies. But they remain steadfast in their refusal to part with either catcher Blake Swihart or outfielder Mookie Betts as part of any package for Hamels.

The Boston Globe reported two weeks ago that the the Sox had made a proposal to the Phils, but that the package involved mostly established major leaguers. It's thought that Allen Craig may have been part of that package, which the Phillies summarily rejected, preferring to obtain younger prospects rather than veteran players -- the better to begin the rebuilding process the franchise needs.

One American League talent evaluator believes the Phillies will be motivated to deal Hamels before the start of the season, reasoning that the longer Hamels remains with the club, the more awkward it becomes for all involved.

More at the link

 

[soxhop411]

@MikeSilvermanBB: #Phillies exec kept close eye on #RedSox workout today. Watched Swihart, Betts, Cecchini, Marrero many others hit.

 

[soxhop411]

L@Sean_McAdam: Presence of Charlie Kerfeld, top Phillies' evaluator, at Red Sox camp this morning, sure to re-ignite Hamels talk. #RedSoxTalk

 

[Harry Hooper]

L@Sean_McAdam: Presence of Charlie Kerfeld, top Phillies' evaluator, at Red Sox camp this morning, sure to re-ignite Hamels talk. #RedSoxTalk

 
Does Charlie still spit tobacco juice all over the front of his shirt?
 
 
Edit: Can't find a good pic. This one will have to do:
 

 

[mwonow]

 
Does Charlie still spit tobacco juice all over the front of his shirt?

Nah - when he watches Swihart and Betts, he drools it all over the front of his shirt!
 
As is noted many times above, Swihart and Betts shouldn't be in play, and payroll (and JH's comments on it) matters too. With the Sox at $200M already. It seems unlikely that a prospects-only deal works, even if it doesn't involve Swihart or Betts. Hamels (or Lee) are nice to dream about, but there are a bunch of hurdles both ways...

 

[Corsi]

FORT MYERS, Fla. — The games haven’t even begun yet, and already the Phillies are scouting the Red Sox.
 
One of Philadelphia general manager Ruben Amaro’s top advisers, Charlie Kerfeld, was on hand Monday to watch all of the desirable Boston players the Phillies would like to see in a trade for Cole Hamels or perhaps Cliff Lee.
 
According to all accounts, Lee, 36, has thrown the ball well in Phillies camp after rehabbing an elbow injury. The feeling now is that Lee could be traded ahead of Hamels.
 

 

The Red Sox and Phillies have been around the block several times on Hamels. The last time they had serious discussions, Boston was offering some major league talent, not prospects.
 
If that major league talent were, say, Xander Bogaerts, the Phillies would likely jump, but that’s not what was offered, according to a major league source.
 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/03/03/cole-hamels-cliff-lee-still-red-sox-radar/jB9nQH4JzZBugHysfK57MK/story.html?event=event25

 

[OCD SS]

Is it just me or does most of what is coming out seem to be rather blatantly from Philly's side? This is some of the most pathetic negotiating in the press that I can remember seeing

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Is it just me or does most of what is coming out seem to be rather blatantly from Philly's side? This is some of the most pathetic negotiating in the press that I can remember seeing

To me it seems as more evidence of Cafardo plumping for the Hamels deal. He just can't seem to get it into his head that the Sox have put a fixed value on Hamels in terms of prospects or MLB players AND salary relief and will not deviate from that.

 

[barbed wire Bob]

Is it just me or does most of what is coming out seem to be rather blatantly from Philly's side? This is some of the most pathetic negotiating in the press that I can remember seeing

That's how I see it.  It makes sense since the Red Sox have one of the deepest farm systems in baseball and the Phillies have.......Cole Hamels and a GM with a reputation for being unreasonable.  

 

[soxhop411]

Jason Mastrodonato ‏@JMastrodonato  2m
2 minutes ago
Sources: Despite Phillies exec at Red Sox facilities, no signs of progress in Cole Hamels talks http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/clubhouse_insider/2015/03/sources_no_signs_of_progress_in_red_sox_phillies_trade … ... via @bostonherald
 

 
FORT MYERS – Despite the presence of a Philadelphia Phillies executive at JetBlue Park to scout the Boston Red Sox on Monday, there are no signs of any progress in trade talks involving Cole Hamels, two major league sources told The Boston Herald.
Charley Kerfeld, a special assistant to the general manager in Philadelphia, was spotted conversing with Red Sox coaches and watching live batting practice at the Red Sox’s spring training facilities. The Phillies have been rumored by multiple outlets to covet catching prospect Blake Swihart and outfielder Mookie Betts from the Red Sox.
But the Red Sox have been in no rush to make any such move and it would be hard to envision a scenario in which they traded either player. Manager John Farrell has mentioned Betts as his leading candidate to bat leadoff this year and the entire organization raves about Swihart’s progress both offensively and defensively.
The Red Sox also remain high on pitching prospect Henry Owens. The front office has been impressed with him early in spring training and still believe he can be an elite starter in the major leagues, they just aren’t sure when he’ll be ready to make the jump. Because Owens has a 6-foot-6 frame, it’s taken him some time to perfect his mechanics and he’s been inconsistent with his fastball command. His changeup remains a premier offering.
The club feels similarly optimistic about left-hander Eduardo Rodriguez, who they happily acquired from the Baltimore Orioles in exchange for Andrew Miller last July, and left-hander Brian Johnson, who had as good a season as anyone in the farm system last year.
Some high-ceiling prospects who have no clear path to the big league roster and could be more likely to be traded, if the Red Sox found a deal they liked, include third baseman Garin Cecchini, shortstop Deven Marrero and outfielder Jackie Bradley Jr.
For now, though, the Red Sox remain happy with their starting rotation

 

[OCD SS]

I didn't RTFA the first time around, but just from what was posted I was thinking that the "MLB source" sounds like he's from Philly. After reading it, ehhh. The names are the same, and still not going to happen. I'm surprised the package Boston has offered hasn't been leaked, other than maybe Victorino, who's so obvious it's not much of a scoop.

Living outside of Boston I've been blissfully unaware of Carfado's pet roster ideas if they're not posted here.

 

[DavidTai]

I'm wondering now if the Sox are projecting certain pitchers based on some upcoming adjustments to the new strike zone and new offense era and that's why they keep projecting Henry Owens as an elite starter.

 

[bankshot1]

Pat Gillick on Amaro and the Philles:
 
Not a pretty picture
 
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20150301_Gillick_knows_losses_are_on_the_way_for_Phillies.html#f0paRiQ4dqS37chu.99
 
 

 

What then does Gillick want the organization to look like at the end of the 2015 season? What would be considered a success for a team expected to finish last in the National League East for the second straight season?
"I would like to be able to say we were able to integrate some younger players into the lineup and that they had got their feet on the ground both physically and mentally," Gillick said. "I think the mental transition is a greater transition than the physical transition."
 
Gillick did not make the transition so many Phillies fans wanted to see this offseason: the firing of Ruben Amaro Jr. He knows how unpopular the general manager has become, but he still believes in Amaro and is bothered that he has become a human pinata.
"Oh, yeah, but what are you going to do?" Gillick said. "Now somebody can sit in their basement and take punches at you and never show up. I think Ruben is a really good people person with the players and the staff
 

Gillick is also open about the greatest weakness of his general manager and the entire organization.
"He wants to win so badly because he is from Philadelphia, he played for the Phillies, his dad was a Phillie . . . and sometimes he wants it to happen right now, and he gets a little impatient," Gillick said. "I think it's difficult for anyone to make that transition. Not only for him, but I think it is for everyone. Looking back, we probably started this rebuild a year too late. It should have started after 2013, for sure. We probably lost a year. Fourteen should have been '15."



If we had some young people that could compete for those positions one through four, then those young people might displace one of those four guys," Gillick said. "Right now that's one of the voids we have. If we move a veteran guy, we're going to have to put somebody in there that's probably not ready. We want to rebuild, but we don't want to be embarrassing. I don't think we want to embarrass the fans, and I don't want to be embarrassed when we go on the field."
That, however, is what a lot of people believe is going to happen to Pat Gillick and the Phillies in the man's first, and perhaps only, full season as the team president.
"That doesn't bother me," Gillick said. "That is just people's opinions. We're certainly not one of the best teams in baseball, but I'm not sure we're the worst team, either."


 
 

 

[dcmissle]

Carfardo is the pimp, but there are many johns in the media.

 

[Rasputin]

I'm wondering now if the Sox are projecting certain pitchers based on some upcoming adjustments to the new strike zone and new offense era and that's why they keep projecting Henry Owens as an elite starter.

 
Do we have any particular reason to think they are projecting Henry Owens as an elite starter? That would be a minority opinion among prognosticators, I think, and while I'm not going to pretend that I watch the papers every day for news about Henry Owens, I haven't heard anything about the Sox refusing to send him in trade to someone. I rather suspect that if the Phillies would take an Owens centered deal, that Hamels would be in Red Sox camp already.

 

[MikeM]

 
Do we have any particular reason to think they are projecting Henry Owens as an elite starter? .

 
No, but similar to the presented concept that Philly "needs to trade Hamels asap" it sure helps make all the fantasy Hamels-to-Boston fits appear more legitimate. 
 
The Kerfeld angle is potentially interesting though. Maybe he's there looking at Buchholz on potential offer on Lee, as there is arguably a fairly sneaky and mutually beneficial fit to be had there imo. In that we would likely need to move MLB salary to make a deal happen, and they simply might not like their own current risk vs rewards projection on keeping Lee atm.
 
I mean if you think about it, what's the realistic best case scenario for Philly in keeping Lee for atm? Right now you probably can't dump him at the cost of his contract, and i highly doubt the simple act of looking healthy in spring is going to change that. At face value teams are going to want to see him pitching at an elite level in games that count again...which likely puts the approach timeline there back another half a season. At which point Lee is a 1.5 year rental pitcher about to turn 37, on a monster sized contract that by default significantly reduces the amount of potential suitors. 
 
Idk, just seems like an overly risky approach for Philly to take there just to maximize their chances on getting a better return back latter that's still not likely to play out as some huge value win. Taking Buchholz on the other hand makes some sense in that they save the extra money that venture would cost, and basically are left trading down in risk if/when taking that same approach. With the 250k option to simply wipe the slate clean (which Lee isn't offering them) after an already conceded season making up any potential difference. 
 
All of the above assuming Ben likes him and Lee would waive his no trade, of course. Plus my own belief that Victorino and/or Craig are all but currently slated to get aggressively shopped/traded this spring, with some additional LT room being freed up in that process. 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

If I'm Ben Cherington, I'm not trading Clay Buchholz for Cliff Lee, even if it's a straight up deal. It's foolish.

 

[MikeM]

If I'm Ben Cherington, I'm not trading Clay Buchholz for Cliff Lee, even if it's a straight up deal. It's foolish.

 
I'm not sure i would either. Just stating that unlike Hamels atm, i can actually see a mutual fit existing there. 
 
But yeah, it would have to be a straight up'ish type deal regardless. Lee insisting on having his option fully picked up would probably be a "if you want out we'll give you that opportunity, but only on current terms" deal breaker too.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
I'm not sure i would either. Just stating that unlike Hamels atm, i can actually see a mutual fit existing there. 
 
But yeah, it would have to be a straight up'ish type deal regardless. Lee insisting on having his option fully picked up would probably be a "if you want out we'll give you that opportunity, but only on current terms" deal breaker too.

I'm just not seeing the benefit for the Sox in such a deal. Lee is enough of an injury risk and not enough of an upgrade to justify nearly quadrupling the lux tax hit for 2015. Not to mention that for the price of declining Lee's 2016 option, they can pick up Buchholz's.

I know Buchholz has had his issues, but being seven years younger than Lee makes him a far better bet to be both healthier and more effective on the mound in 2015.

 

[Darnell's Son]

Couldn't Buchholz be part of a Hamels deal? If they are trading for Hamels, they presumably need to clear a rotation slot and salary. They probably aren't moving any of the starters they've just acquired.

Something like Buchholz, Bradley, and Cecchini isn't the worst deal in the world; for either side.

I don't think the Phillies would want Buccholz that badly. He's only under team control for 2 years if they pick up the option.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I don't think the Phillies would want Buccholz that badly. He's only under team control for 2 years if they pick up the option.

He's got two options, so he could presumably be under control for three years. But I still don't see him as someone the Phils want in exchange for Hamels.

 

[MikeM]

I know Buchholz has had his issues, but being seven years younger than Lee makes him a far better bet to be both healthier and more effective on the mound in 2015.

 
Issues is kind of an understatement there. The guy is already 30 while never having started 30 games or thrown 190 innings in a season. I get the fairly big question mark with Lee coming off injury, but to suggest Buchholz is the far better bet to be either of those things in 2015 seems quite the age based stretch imo. 
 
(6 Years older btw)

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
Issues is kind of an understatement there. The guy is already 30 while never having started 30 games or thrown 190 innings in a season. I get the fairly big question mark with Lee coming off injury, but to suggest Buchholz is the far better bet to be either of those things in 2015 seems quite the age based stretch imo. 
 
(6 Years older btw)

 
Okay, maybe "far better" bet is a stretch, but if you're going to pay double the salary in real dollars (12M vs 25M) and triple the salary against the luxury tax (7.5M vs 24M), you want to be assured of coming out ahead in the end.
 
At equal salary, which pitcher is the better bet for 2015?  Not a better bet to start 30 games or throw 190+ innings, but just be the more productive pitcher period.  Given their recent history, I'd say toss-up at best, edge to Buchholz (based solely on youth/health) at worst.  Why would any sane GM want to pay double for the old guy?

 

[C4CRVT]

Cliff Lee is a crapshoot. From what I've read, he had elbow soreness and did the rest-and-rehab thing. Do we know more than that? Elbow soreness on a 36 year old SP seems like a bad bet to take. Maybe for Allen Craig and a couple of prospects outside of the top 10 would work.

 

[ivanvamp]

I don't know if getting Cliff Lee and his contract is a wise move for the Red Sox.  But it isn't even remotely a question as to who is a better major league pitcher between Cliff Lee and Clay Buchholz.  
 
Who will be better in 2015 and 2016?  Who knows.  But so far, no, it's not remotely close.  

 

[JimD]

 
Do we have any particular reason to think they are projecting Henry Owens as an elite starter? That would be a minority opinion among prognosticators, I think, and while I'm not going to pretend that I watch the papers every day for news about Henry Owens, I haven't heard anything about the Sox refusing to send him in trade to someone. I rather suspect that if the Phillies would take an Owens centered deal, that Hamels would be in Red Sox camp already.

 
It doesn't hurt to try.  If Cherington holds firm and tells Amaro that an Owens-centered deal is the best he's getting from the Red Sox, maybe the Phillies cave.

 

[phenweigh]

I don't know if getting Cliff Lee and his contract is a wise move for the Red Sox.  But it isn't even remotely a question as to who is a better major league pitcher between Cliff Lee and Clay Buchholz.  
 
Who will be better in 2015 and 2016?  Who knows.  But so far, no, it's not remotely close.  

Per baseball-reference.com, career stats:
 
Lee, ERA+ 118, FIP 3.54 
Buchholz, ERA+ 109, FIP 4.06
 
Maybe "not remotely close" is a bit of an overstatement, but that is a pretty significant difference.  If the Sox get to review Lee's medical records and require Cliff to pass a physical as a condition for a trade, the $ difference may be worth it. 
 
As an on-topic point of comparison:
 
Hamels, ERA+ 125, FIP 3.48 
 
Better (and younger) than Lee, but IMO not by a Betts/Swihart over Buchholz amount.
 
I'm skeptical either will happen, but getting Lee seems more likely less unlikely to me.

 

[bosockboy]

At some point I think Gillick gets a seat at the table on this and it gets done.

 

[Corsi]

No duh, but worth passing along anyway: Phillies not interested in reacquiring Victorino. Focused only on younger, cheaper players #RedSox
 

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/572766366740176896

 

[johnnywayback]

I should point out: I don't think a deal happens, because I don't think the Red Sox really feel like they need Hamels and I don't think the Phillies really feel like they should settle for Owens as the best prospect in the deal.
 
But let's say I'm wrong about the second part of that and a deal gets built around Owens.  Who else?
 
From the Red Sox perspective, it seems like they would want one of the starters to be in the deal.  Otherwise, you end up bumping Masterson to the bullpen and exacerbating the crunch there, thus diminishing your added value a bit.  It makes no sense to trade Porcello, Miley, or Masterson.  Buchholz is expensive and probably less valuable to the Phillies than he would be to a team with a shot at contending.  So I think it makes sense to speculate that Kelly would be the guy.
 
Who's the third man?  While the Sox have a ton of prospect depth, they have three guys who are, I think, seriously blocked: Cecchini, Bradley, and Marrero.  
 
A package of Owens, Kelly, and any one of those guys would be an overwhelmingly fair offer for Hamels.  The Phillies would get a starter who could eventually replace some part of Hamels's production, a starter who can step into the rotation now and may also grow to be [insert percentage here] as valuable as Hamels, and a position player who's likely to stick as a major league regular.  And the Sox could do it without doing any real damage to their depth.
 
So, for me, either the Phillies come down to Owens and a deal gets done, or they don't and it doesn't.  And the Sox don't really need to do much but sit and wait for the phone to ring.  Nice place to be.

 

[johnnywayback]

A package of Owens, Kelly, and one of those three for Hamels adds ~$20M to this year's payroll, though. Are the Sox able and comfortable doing that in mid-March?

 
A good question, and one I can't answer.  But if they're not, then you add the opportunity cost of having to dump Victorino/Craig/Mujica for a lesser return (rather than holding out for a better deal at the risk of having to keep them on the roster or pay part of the freight) to the cost of acquiring Hamels.

 

[Quintanariffic]

A package of Owens, Kelly, and one of those three for Hamels adds ~$20M to this year's payroll, though. Are the Sox able and comfortable doing that in mid-March?

Yeah, but this statement has been true for any reasonably likely package that the Phills would accept, so it's not like that's a new dynamic.  Swihart costs less than Joe Kelly.  Presumably the Sox have already come to terms with the financial implications of a Hamels acquisition.

 

[snowmanny]

The Red Sox are going over the luxury tax threshold in 2015 with or without Hamels.  I think the bigger issue is getting back under in 2016, although Victorino and Napoli and Porcello and Masterson are coming off the books and may, to varying degrees, have in-house replacements (I assume they will need at least one big ticket pitcher).

 

[Rasputin]

  Otherwise, you end up bumping Masterson to the bullpen and exacerbating the crunch there, thus diminishing your added value a bit.  It makes no sense to trade Porcello, Miley, or Masterson.  Buchholz is expensive and probably less valuable to the Phillies than he would be to a team with a shot at contending.  So I think it makes sense to speculate that Kelly would be the guy.

 
This bit of ridiculousness needs to die a painful death.
 
Having too many decent players is not a problem. Repeat NOT A PROBLEM.
 
In the specific case of Masterson moving to the bullpen, it is even more not a problem. If Masterson is still in the rotation at the deadline, there's a pretty good chance he has recovered at least some of the form that made him good. If that's the case, then there is no way in hell that he's not better than the last guy in the bullpen which means this is ADDED value to the trade.

 

[Harry Hooper]

I think we can all agree that at this point in time, there are probably not many (if any) teams willing to assume all of Hamels deal..so the Sox could presumably get some kind of relief, at least for this year, from the Phils even if they aren't able to include a high placed veteran or two.

 
Why is that a logical conclusion? When did Hamels' contract become a millstone? Rather than an absence of suitors, Amaro likely hasn't pulled the trigger on a deal because he hasn't received an offer that satisfies him yet. 

 

[soxhop411]

Gordon Edes ‏@GordonEdes  3m3 minutes ago
No surprise that Phillies scout Charlie Kerfeld is in the house #hamelswatch

 

[soxhop411]

• While each side will privately acknowledge that they’ve been in contact with the other, talks between the Red Sox and Phillies regarding Cole Hamels have been dormant for weeks, writes Bob Nightengale of USA Today. Nightengale spoke to Boston GM Ben Cherington and Red Sox pitchers Rick Porcello and Wade Miley about the confidence each has in their current staff.

MLBTR

 

[Harry Hooper]

Because it's March, and most teams don't generally have $20M available in their budget this late in the off-season. Even mid-season, the recent trend is for teams trading a player to pay most of the freight on the guy's deal.

 
OK, some money coming from Philly for 2015 payroll purposes is quite possible, but probably not a requirement for subsequent seasons.