Career 98+ ERA guy who played less than one full season in NY when the Red Sox signed him doesn't really count as signing away a star from them.Monbo Jumbo said:
Mike Torrez thinks your should try harder.
Career 98+ ERA guy who played less than one full season in NY when the Red Sox signed him doesn't really count as signing away a star from them.Monbo Jumbo said:
Mike Torrez thinks your should try harder.
Wingack said:I love the name Turncoat Dreamboat. Who came up with that?
Red(s)HawksFan said:
Citation for the bolded, please? I don't recall Ellsbury making any such statements. In fact, I don't believe I have seen or heard anything out of Ellsbury's camp that would lead anyone to believe he was going to do anything other than take top dollar no matter the buyer. He's not a traitor, he's a mercenary. No different, no better, no worse than 99% of professional athletes in all team sports.
Those were Damon's quotes with Ellsbury's name titled underneath.Rovin Romine said:
There were a bunch earlier in the thread, weren't there?
Those were riffing on Damon's quote.Rovin Romine said:There were a bunch earlier in the thread, weren't there?
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:My most significant worry now -- well other than Ells being Ricky Henderson and going into the HOF as a Yankee -- is that the Sox make a reactionary move because it was the Yankees. Can't get caught in the switches here. Don't backtrack on valuation of Napoli. Don't do something stupid with Kemp. Don't go hog wild on Choo, or something. Stay on track.
Why would they do that defensive alignment? Should the Sox sign Beltran (whose part of my plan C in the outfield this offseason) you should stick him in left, leave Shane in right and JBJ takes over CF. JBJ's defense should be at least as good as Ellsbury according to many scouts. Beltran is an offensive upgrade (slight) over Nava in left and Nava becomes your 4th OF'er/ (back-up) firstbaseman who will likely get 400+ at bats. Shane backs-up CF, Beltran backs-up RF and Nava backs-up LF.Dogman2 said:
Perhaps. Or Vic moves to CF and they sign Beltran.
Not thrilled but at that money, it's not worth it.
xjack said:I don't really have any hard feelings towards JE either.
Then again, I just heard Damon on MLB Network Radio, and he said that all the criticism and put-downs from Red Sox fans after he signed with the NYYs "drove him nuts." It got him so sad that he had to get pep talks from Boras. So maybe there is some strategic value in bugging the crap out of Jacoby now that he's in pinstripes?
maufman said:I made my peace with Ellsbury's departure long ago. The only news is the destination and the dollars.
I'd be furious if the Sox gave Ellsbury this deal. Ergo, I'm delighted that the MFY did. Sure, they will spend over the luxury tax threshold most years, but their budget is finite. This contract is unlikely to be a good use of those finite dollars past the first couple of years.
Thanks Jacoby. You played hard while you were here, and you were never dishonest about your motives. No hard feelings whatsoever.
That sounds more or less right but I think Beltran could see more time in RF than what you suggest. Against righties it would be Beltran-Bradley-Victorino, as the presumptive starters, but Nava-Bradley-Beltran as strong secondary option. Against lefties it would be Gomes-Victorino-Beltran as option 1. Beltran and Victorino get plenty of rest and Beltan esp. spells Papi at DH against a few lefties. This works especially well with Napoli back at 1b but if so there is no room for Carp.seantoo said:Why would they do that defensive alignment? Should the Sox sign Beltran (whose part of my plan C in the outfield this offseason) you should stick him in left, leave Shane in right and JBJ takes over CF. JBJ's defense should be at least as good as Ellsbury according to many scouts. Beltran is an offensive upgrade (slight) over Nava in left and Nava becomes your 4th OF'er/ (back-up) firstbaseman who will likely get 400+ at bats. Shane backs-up CF, Beltran backs-up RF and Nava backs-up LF.
Shoo is now plan B and his role is the same I laid out for Beltran above.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:My most significant worry now -- well other than Ells being Ricky Henderson and going into the HOF as a Yankee -- is that the Sox make a reactionary move because it was the Yankees. Can't get caught in the switches here. Don't backtrack on valuation of Napoli. Don't do something stupid with Kemp. Don't go hog wild on Choo, or something. Stay on track.
While I agree with the overall synopsis of this plan you cannot expect Big Papi to be the anchor forever. He's 39 years old. Sooner or later you need to find that elite bat to replace him and work along side the future of Boegarts and others. They need to respond to these moves by trading for someone like Stanton. They need a young masher to build around.JimD said:
The Sox have no need this winter to react to anything the Yankees do. They will go into the 2014 season as the defending world champions, with postseason stud Jon Lester at the head of the rotation, Big Papi anchoring the lineup and the most exciting prospect in baseball in Xander Bogaerts stepping into a full-time role. Fans will sing along to 'Three Little Birds' every time Victorino strolls to the plate, they will sing 'Sweet Caroline' in the middle of the eighth, and they will cheer when Koji strolls out of the bullpen for the ninth. You couldn't ask for a better scenario to keep the faithful happy while the front office sticks to their long-term plan.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
Citation for the bolded, please? I don't recall Ellsbury making any such statements. In fact, I don't believe I have seen or heard anything out of Ellsbury's camp that would lead anyone to believe he was going to do anything other than take top dollar no matter the buyer. He's not a traitor, he's a mercenary. No different, no better, no worse than 99% of professional athletes in all team sports.
Rovin Romine said:
There were a bunch earlier in the thread, weren't there?
ilol@u said:Those were Damon's quotes with Ellsbury's name titled underneath.
phrenile said:Those were riffing on Damon's quote.
LeoCarrillo said:I'm not sure the MFY budget is exactly finite, just their roster at 25.
koufax32 said:Ah yea, the "how much money do you need" argument...
Option A: stay at your current job for $50 k per year
Option B: go to your company's biggest competitor to who offers you $70 k per year
I'll give you a hint. You're an idiot for choosing the that begins with a vowel. It is not a character flaw to want a higher standard of living. Can we put this argument to rest please...along with the anger that's player doesn't hate the Yankees like a fan does?
Rovin Romine said:
There were a bunch earlier in the thread, weren't there?
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:My most significant worry now -- well other than Ells being Ricky Henderson and going into the HOF as a Yankee -- is that the Sox make a reactionary move because it was the Yankees. Can't get caught in the switches here. Don't backtrack on valuation of Napoli. Don't do something stupid with Kemp. Don't go hog wild on Choo, or something. Stay on track.
At very least, CC's first contract was good. The deal after the opt out, maybe not so much.BosRedSox5 said:Quick, name the last long term FA deal that's worked out well for the Yankees.
Giambi, Tex, A-Rod, CC (already declining),
I think you'd probably need to go back to Mussina.
Exact same thing you can say about ARods deal. He actually lived up to his first contract before the opt out. Obviously PEDs were a major reason but still.Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:At very least, CC's first contract was good. The deal after the opt out, maybe not so much.
Let the Yankees overpay for our scraps, afterall that is the Yankee way (overpay for free agents), like with A-Rod, Texiera & Sabathia. They never learn the lesson that eventually tomorrow becomes today. Sure it's a good short term move for the Yankees, hell that short porch in right may have Ellsbury approach his 2011 levels. But they extended themselves for to much for to long. How is (fill in the blank) working for them now?Ananti said:And this is why all those who say there is little difference between the MFYs and the Red Sox are full of it. You have never seen the Red Sox sign away a star MFY free agent. Because it has never happened, nor will it ever happen. And it really sucks that if we continue to be value conscious this will happen more in the future. It won't just be Damon and Youk and Ellsbury, it could some day be Lester,or (gulp) Papi and Bogaerts.
Having said that, while the sentimental side of it sucks, head has to win over heart here. The Sox paid Ellsbury 21 million over his first 6 years, and when all it's said and done, I'm willing to bet the Yankee's don't get as much for their 152 as the Sox did for their 21. So in this exchange I'd much rather be the Red Sox than the MFYs.
Also, I think there is a good chance that JBJ matches Ellsbury over the next 7 years at a fraction of the cost.
Tyrone Biggums said:While I agree with the overall synopsis of this plan you cannot expect Big Papi to be the anchor forever. He's 39 years old. Sooner or later you need to find that elite bat to replace him and work along side the future of Boegarts and others. They need to respond to these moves by trading for someone like Stanton. They need a young masher to build around.
benhogan said:So long Jacoby, 1-time All Star. $150MM, don't blame him...
Ben's next move should be to extend Jon Lester now (or the day after Opening Day). I like the idea of having lefty starters neutralizing the Yankees LHH line-up. Also like the idea of having 3 lefties in the pen, for big/late spots.
Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:At very least, CC's first contract was good. The deal after the opt out, maybe not so much.
Tyrone Biggums said:Exact same thing you can say about ARods deal. He actually lived up to his first contract before the opt out. Obviously PEDs were a major reason but still.
DieHardSoxFan1 said:A 5.8 WAR player leaves town and we're all glad to see him go?
As Fangraphs noted recently, guys with Ellsbury's profile tend to age pretty gracefully. This makes the Yankees a much better team in the immediate future. If they win a WS, nobody here (or there) is going to be bitching about his salary in 2020.
dcmissle said:
But if you were offered $150,000,000, you damn well would take it, and you'd be nuts if you didn't. Because that is multi-generational wealth which, if sensibly handled, means your kids, grandkids and great grandkids don't have to worry about money.
Different sport and different town, but Ells is simply going down the Damien Woody path: earn your rings one place, make your money another.
EDIT -- It's pretty amusing because if anyone in the you're-dead-to-me crowd had a son in Ells' position, that person would advise that son to sign on with Boras and hold out for the last fucking dollar. But is someboy else's kid does it, then it's high treason.
Tyrone Biggums said:Part of me wants the Sox to give Cano 5/125 to play 3rd just to screw with the Yankees. But this has the potential to be one of the worst signings of recent memory
SeanBerry said:
I think it's a terrible deal for the Yankees. However, there is one way this makes a ton of sense for them.
And that's if Ellsbury is Paul Molitor.
It's different, but would your perspective change if Jacoby donated the extra 30 million to Native American Charities and causes? My point being its really not for us to decide how much is "enough." I'd rather JE have it than it staying in Hank and Hal's pockets.glennhoffmania said:
I have no problem with someone taking the most money if that's their primary goal, but your example is completely irrelevant. There's no way you can compare an extra $20k for someone making $50k with an extra few million for someone who will make well over $100m during their career.
Ananti said:Career 98+ ERA guy who played less than one full season in NY when the Red Sox signed him doesn't really count as signing away a star from them.
Philip Jeff Frye said:Interesting that the MFYs are willing to back up the truck for Ellsbury but happy to play hardball with Cano. If I were Cano, I'd be so pissed right now that I'd run out and sign whatever the best deal I've got right now from somebody else. Cano is a better player than Ellsbury - aren't the Yankees at best treading water if the sign Ellsbury but lose Cano?
ivanvamp said:
So for them to pay it doesn't hamstring them like it would the Sox. So while I'm glad the Sox didn't give them this contract, I'm *NOT* happy that the Yankees did. They can afford it, and their team just got a lot better. We can say that in year 6 the contract will suck, but by then, the Yanks will have other guys doing the heavy lifting for them.
Doug Beerabelli said:It's different, but would your perspective change if Jacoby donated the extra 30 million to Native American Charities and causes? My point being its really not for us to decide how much is "enough." I'd rather JE have it than it staying in Hank and Hal's pockets.
EvilEmpire said:I don't get all the griping about the size of the contract. The Sox signed Crawford for around 10 million less. Ellsbury plays CF and is a better player.
With all the money floating around baseball, this deal doesn't seem far off of what the market should bear. That said, I don't blame the Red Sox for not offering more. They just won the WS and have a deep system. No risk in sticking to their plan. I don't begrudge any team maximizing profits if they can do so and remain competitive.
EvilEmpire said:I don't get all the griping about the size of the contract. The Sox signed Crawford for around 10 million less. Ellsbury plays CF and is a better player.
With all the money floating around baseball, this deal doesn't seem far off of what the market should bear. That said, I don't blame the Red Sox for not offering more. They just won the WS and have a deep system. No risk in sticking to their plan. I don't begrudge any team maximizing profits if they can do so and remain competitive.
EvilEmpire said:I don't get all the griping about the size of the contract. The Sox signed Crawford for around 10 million less. Ellsbury plays CF and is a better player.
With all the money floating around baseball, this deal doesn't seem far off of what the market should bear. That said, I don't blame the Red Sox for not offering more. They just won the WS and have a deep system. No risk in sticking to their plan. I don't begrudge any team maximizing profits if they can do so and remain competitive.