Serious question: Does Al Horford alone make the C's better? or maybe I should ask "good enough to matter?"
Horford to Boston!
- Thread starter Clears Cleaver
- Start date
I don't think so, but maybe I'm underestimating what Horford has left. He looked thoroughly cooked in the playoffs last year. The big problem with the long-term big-money deals to guys on the downside is that you get stuck with an aging and increasingly ineffective Al Horford for the next four years. This proposed deal essentially cripples Boston's ability to participate in the REAL free-agent bonanza in 2017, where many more marquee guys are available and the cap spikes even higher.
The smart play is to wait it out and maintain flexibility, in my opinion. Bring back Amir and JJ, improve on the fringes without committing huge dollars and years, and run it back. They'll win 50 games by basically standing pat. Then next offseason they'll be in position to assemble a juggernaut, adding another high-lottery pick along with the money and flexibility to bring in a couple of real difference-makers. That's just my take, I understand the tendency for fans to be impatient.
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Yeah, they were nearly a #3 seed and they were starting Oliver Miller's less athletic illegitimate son at C. There is no universe where even the 30 year old Horford is a downgrade on Sully.
Something to keep in mind with Horford: he took threes for the first time last season and was a 34% shooter.
Compare to Sully's 27% and, well...yeah.
Compare to Sully's 27% and, well...yeah.
If the rumors are true that the Celtics wanted to bring Horford to meet Durant tomorrow, the news that Horford's going to take the weekend to ponder offers can't be seen as good news.
No it doesn't and if we can't sign someone like Horford after his only suiters (ATL and Houston) have basically given up, then there is no chance for the Celtics to land Durant.
I can imagine a scenario where Ainge offered him less than the max with some bullshit promise that he's going to use the leftover to re-sign a JAG like Sully or Zeller. I am done with Ainge's bullshit - he's Madoff with a GM title.
The Celtics met with free agent center Al Horford on Friday night, according to multiple league sources, and a league source who was familiar with the gathering said the meeting went very well, and that the belief is that Boston has a “good chance” of signing the four-time All-Star.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/01/celtics-meeting-with-horford-went-well/HDkDxfSVmw7YLTlDgZGXpI/story.html
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/01/celtics-meeting-with-horford-went-well/HDkDxfSVmw7YLTlDgZGXpI/story.html
Was that rumor out there, or was that someone from here saying it would be cool to sign him and bring him?
Horford also met with or is being courted by OKC, Detroit, Houston and Washington. So, while Atlanta may have seemingly dropped out when the inked Howard, it's not exactly as dire as you make it out to be.
Take a deep breath man.
You should maybe not put so much weight on Horford not being on the chopper tomorrow. If his presence on the team is a difference maker for KD, I assure you they have each other's phone numbers and can discuss the situation (and likely already have). I don't think anyone with any realistic expectations expected the Celtics to fly down to Atlanta, ink Horford, have him pack a bag and head out with them in the morning. No matter how much the Cs wanted it or not.
And quite frankly I don't see the point of it anyway. The goal of bringing players on this thing is so that KD can talk to them about living and playing in the city, the coaches, the owner, the fans, etc - none of which Horford knows anything about. If his presence is simply to say "hey we got you running mate, here he is", that doesn't need to be accomplished tomorrow, because KD isn't making his decision tomorrow. It can be accomplished with a phone call or when AH decides and it's on Sportscenter.
I would really be interested in hearing what you think Ainge has failed at or what you suggest he should have taken as a rebuilding plan to avoid being the "Madoff with a GM title" you deem him?
Atlanta is reportedly looking to clear cap space to make an offer to Horford. This would mean either trading Millsap or all of Splitter, Korver, and Sefolosha in either one or separate deals.
Yeah, that's why I qualified my statement with "seemingly". I just don't see it happening. They can't play Millsap, Horford and Howard together and I don't see them moving Millsap when he's a steal on that contract now. If they do though, he would be a nice pick up for DA.
Millsap is only signed for one more year, though, and his value now is as high as it can be.
If you're Boston, would you trade Millsap for next year's Nets pick, straight up? Is Millsap-Durant more attractive to Durant than Horford-Durant?
If you're Boston, would you trade Millsap for next year's Nets pick, straight up? Is Millsap-Durant more attractive to Durant than Horford-Durant?
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Sources on @TheVertical: Boston and Washington have emerged as frontrunners to sign All-Star forward Al Horford.
Sources on @TheVertical: Boston and Washington have emerged as frontrunners to sign All-Star forward Al Horford.
Millsap's a better player than Horford. He's 31 already, so you need to draw a line in the sand regarding his value, but if you can pick him up in a deal where Atlanta is dumping him to re-sign Horford, that's a much better outcome than giving Horford the max.
WAS has Wall, Gortat, Mark.Morris, Porter, Oubre at $45.1mm. WAS has $46.3mm in cap holds (once Dudley is renounced, as he is signing with PHX), so they have no current cap space. WAS can generate $27.1mm of cap space by cutting Drew Gooden and Jarell Eddie and renouncing Nene, Alan Anderson and Ramon Sessions. That would give WAS $26.0mm in cap space, sufficient to sign Horford.
WAS can then add Beal (who has a cap hold of $14.2mm) once the cap space is filled.
PG - Wall, Satoransky (R)
SG - Beal, Thornton, Temple, McClellan (R)
SF - Porter, Oubre
C/PF - Horford, Gortat, Morris, Hickson
Still think that BOS has to be in the lead for Horford.
WAS can then add Beal (who has a cap hold of $14.2mm) once the cap space is filled.
PG - Wall, Satoransky (R)
SG - Beal, Thornton, Temple, McClellan (R)
SF - Porter, Oubre
C/PF - Horford, Gortat, Morris, Hickson
Still think that BOS has to be in the lead for Horford.
I think you sign horford now. Next years free agent class is better, but realistically the celts will only have a great chance at Hayward. Getting horford and Durant or just horford means lots of room for Hayward still. Especially with cap going up again next year
No. Your first sentence explains why the Nets pick wouldn't be on the table for him. Being one year away from a big contract, in this environment, is going to drive the price way down. I would be interested in trading for him, though.
Chris Vivlamore @CVivlamoreAJC 19m19 minutes ago
Al Horford has informed the Hawks that he will make his final free-agent decision tonight. Celtics and Wizards are currently in the lead.
Al Horford has informed the Hawks that he will make his final free-agent decision tonight. Celtics and Wizards are currently in the lead.
On CBS Sports
Horford deciding between Wizards and C's
Likely 4/117M max deal
Will make final decision tonight (I think they mean tonight when they write making decision Saturday night --- and not next Sat)
Horford deciding between Wizards and C's
Likely 4/117M max deal
Will make final decision tonight (I think they mean tonight when they write making decision Saturday night --- and not next Sat)
I've liked Al in the past but what I saw from him during the playoffs was awful. Never in the paint, always shying away from contact, floating away from the basket and being passive. All the things we made fun of Love for Al was also doing. Hope that was an outlier and not the norm if he ends up in Boston.
A small part of me is dreaming that Horford already made up his mind and is going to be part of the Celtics contingent this evening with Durant.
All of this is a smokescreen!
All of this is a smokescreen!
Would be kinda an odd introduction:
"Kevin, let us introduce...the 8th best player you've been in a room with the past 24 hours!"
Stevens/Ainge are the real sellers for us. Thomas may also help with insight into the locker room. Not sure any of them can outsell Riley, though, and Riley has the best timeslot.
"Kevin, let us introduce...the 8th best player you've been in a room with the past 24 hours!"
Stevens/Ainge are the real sellers for us. Thomas may also help with insight into the locker room. Not sure any of them can outsell Riley, though, and Riley has the best timeslot.
Horford isn't a banger or aggressive in the paint. If he does end up here I hope people are expecting a rich mans Raef LaFrentz because that is the type of player he is. Still very effective but certainly not a lunch pail type guy.
Fans are gonna love Jaylen's approach much more than Horford's.
Split off from the Free Agent Target thread.
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If the Celtics are going to sign any free agents during this binge-spending year, it had better be a max contract for a max-worthy player. Horford is closer to that description than most of the signings so far, and he meets the Celtics' needs for an agile big man who can protect the rim, switch on the pick-and-roll, and spread the floor. Horford isn't a superstar, but he's a fine complementary player on both offense and defense.
He'd be good with Durant as well
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If the Celtics are going to sign any free agents during this binge-spending year, it had better be a max contract for a max-worthy player. Horford is closer to that description than most of the signings so far, and he meets the Celtics' needs for an agile big man who can protect the rim, switch on the pick-and-roll, and spread the floor. Horford isn't a superstar, but he's a fine complementary player on both offense and defense.
He'd be good with Durant as well
Can anyone but the Hawks offer him a 5th year? Also, I remember when Al Horford first came into the league and he was an incredibly dirty player. He gave the Celtics fits in the playoffs his rookie year, aka the year we won the title. A much different player then, though.
Yeah, he has drifted outside following the injuries in 2012-2013. That said, he showed promising range from 3PT last year (.344 -- big upgrade on Sully) and tied his career high in FT% (.798). Should be a fair value for the first 3 years of the deal and then movable in 2020 (by which time, you'd hope one of the Nets picks will be emerging as a star).
If Horford is really going back to the Hawks as Woj reports is a strong possibility, I hope it's the Celtics who trade for Millsap.
I would prefer him to Horford.
I would prefer him to Horford.
It would be far from a "devastating blow." There's a good argument they're better off keeping the cap space open if they can't also land Durant, especially if Durant goes back to OKC on a one-year deal. I'd prefer Horford signed, but I don't have a strong feeling either way.
Well, not the celts fault the Hawks can offer an extra year and thus more money.
Hawks strategy this summer is baffling to me.
1. Lowball your bigman with 4 year deal
2. Sign another big man at huge money.
3. Back track and add 5th year but not at max
4. Let him drive you up to a full 5 year max.
5. Start looking for trades for your best player, because no playing time for all three.
1. Lowball your bigman with 4 year deal
2. Sign another big man at huge money.
3. Back track and add 5th year but not at max
4. Let him drive you up to a full 5 year max.
5. Start looking for trades for your best player, because no playing time for all three.
1mAdrian Wojnarowski @WojVerticalNBA
Boston and Washington have rapidly lost hope of Al Horford leaving the Hawks, league sources tell @TheVertical
Boston and Washington have rapidly lost hope of Al Horford leaving the Hawks, league sources tell @TheVertical
