So how are the giants doing it? Sabean has never struck me as the smartest GM yet every time you look there is another WS ring
OptimusPapi said:So how are the giants doing it? Sabean has never struck me as the smartest GM yet every time you look there is another WS ring
WestMassExpat said:Huge part of it is luck. In the same way that prior to 2004 the Red Sox had been playing the team of the decade in each of their WS match ups, the Giants have been drawing favorable AL partners:
2014: The Royals had the lowest run differential (+27), barely half of the next highest team the Tigers. Only one win higher than the other WC team, the A's.
2012: Detroit had the lowest run differential by far of the five AL playoff teams and went in to October with 84 wins.
2010: Texas had the lowest run differential and wins of the four AL teams
Clears Cleaver said:well, they beat three pretty mediocre teams in each WS. KC was amongst the worst teams to ever make a WS. But the 2010 and 2012 teams did have elite pitching. This 2014 version had one good pitcher
I think a big part of the giants success, similar to why the Sox win in postseason so often, is that their advance scouting and pitching/defensive game planning is superb. they know how to gets guy out and their pitchers largely execute
EvilEmpire said:Billy Beane had it right, I think. The playoffs are a crapshoot.
EvilEmpire said:Billy Beane had it right, I think. The playoffs are a crapshoot.
EvilEmpire said:Billy Beane had it right, I think. The playoffs are a crapshoot.
Well, it is interesting that his closer threw 4 pitches in the 7-game series....kieckeredinthehead said:Bochy deserves a ton of credit. Hudson to Affeldt to Bumgarner was not a combination anybody predicted, but it was perfect. Who else could you want to finish game 7?
Ortiz was cruising and Dusty pulled him too soon if anything. Baker invented the inverse Grady Little a year before Grady upped the ante and ignored all the data available as well as the fact that, unlike Baker, the Red Sox had an airtight pen at the time. I just got angry again typing that.Hendu At The Wall said:Gael girl as always make some great points about the current Giants. I think if you look back at Sabean's tenure, it's fair to say he's always been very good - and underrated by most here and elsewhere.
His first big move was trading Matt Williams for Jeff Kent, Julian Tavares and a couple others.
He was killed for this but this trade and other moves set the team up for a solid 8 year run, many times during which they could have won a world series if they got the type of breaks they got this year:
In 1997 they had "home field advantage" against the wild card Marlins, and only played one home game after 2 excruciating road losses to the eventual champions.
In 1998 they lost the tiebreaker to the Cubs, with former Giant & future Red Sox Rob Beck slamming the door on the Giants' attempted comeback.
In 2000 they couldn't get past the Mets in the division series.
In 2001 they went down to the last weekend of the season battling for the NL west with the stacked & eventual world champion Dbacks.
In 2002 maybe if Dusty pulls Russ Ortiz a little quicker, they get the trophy 8 years sooner.
In 2003 if JT Snow is a little faster coming home, maybe we see a Game 5 against the eventual champion Marlins (then again, maybe the Cubs finally take it home).
In 2004 if Dustin Hermanson pitches like he would go on to do in 2005, he doesn't blow the 3 run lead in the final game of the regular season and the Giants are in the playoffs with Bonds for a third straight year.
Lot of close chances over the years, because most of the time he's put together a team that is good enough, with a few breaks, to win it all. And now with Bochy they're capitalizing when they get there.
The Sabean backlash really ramped up when he intentionally forfeited a first round pick to sign Michael Tucker.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
From where I sit, the idea that Sabean wasn't a good GM largely stems from Moneyball and the chapter where Beane smugly talks about dealing with him during the trading deadline. I am not sure that even went down the way Lewis describes it (he has been accused, on more than one occasion, of stretching the facts to fit his narrative) and furthermore, its not clear how much of a feat it was for Beane to pry the legendary Ricardo Rincon from Sabean. That said, many here have been skeptical of Sabean's ability for years.
I alluded to this in my post. I believe that was an organizational decision, not Sabean personally. That was during the Bonds era, too. Bonds left n 2007 and very quickly the team re-invested in scouting and the draft. After the Tucker debacle, they did a whole lot better about drafting. In 2006 and 2007, Tim Lincecum and Madison Bumgarner were their top draft picks. In 2008, they hired John Barr to direct scouting and manage the draft. They got Posey and Crawford in that class (and Juan Perez!). They got Wheeler and Belt in 2009, which is a good class even if they lost Wheeler later. In 2010, they added Andrew Susac and Joe Panik. Considering both were on the World Series roster, have to consider that a success, too.leetinsley38 said:The Sabean backlash really ramped up when he intentionally forfeited a first round pick to sign Michael Tucker.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:Yeah, they gave Barry Zito a bad contract but it didn't prevent them from winning two rings.
Ortiz allowed 4 of his last 7 batters to reach and needed 23 pitches to get through the bottom of the sixth. He was not "cruising" when he was pulled in the seventh with 2 men on. This was not an inverse Grady.DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:Ortiz was cruising and Dusty pulled him too soon if anything. Baker invented the inverse Grady Little a year before Grady upped the ante...
Great point. And who would have thought 10 years ago with both Bonds and the Giants on the decline that they'd close out 3 series wins with Cody Ross, Gregor Blanco and Juan Perez in Left?YTF said:Who would have thought just a few years ago that Tim Lincecum, Jason Schmidt and Brian Wilson would all be non factors in a Giants 3rd Word Championship in five seasons?
Jason Schmidt? He was gone from the Giants after the '06 season and out of baseball after '09. Fixed it for ya anyway. Even Wilson could be dropped, as they had a different closer for all three titles.YTF said:Who would have thought just a few years ago that Tim Lincecum,Jason SchmidtMatt Cain and Brian Wilson would all be non factors in a Giants 3rd Word Championship in five seasons?
The Gray Eagle said:If the postseason really was a crapshoot, then Beane would have made it to a World Series by now.
The Giants advance scouts seem to do a great job, and that is really important in the postseason. Balboni and company seem to be doing good work, and they seem to have a manager who works well with them (rather than, say a braindead jackass who disregards all of their work and singlehandedly loses the pennant-- sorry, Grady flashback there.)
Hendu At The Wall said:Ortiz allowed 4 of his last 7 batters to reach and needed 23 pitches to get through the bottom of the sixth. He was not "cruising" when he was pulled in the seventh with 2 men on. This was not an inverse Grady.