What is a tragedy is that one more year, Suarez and Cutinho's European ambitions will remain unfulfilled.
One of the many really detestable things about Liverpool as a fan base is this ugly habit of turning every player who leaves into a villain. Suarez was a tough loss at the time but Coutinho was likely the best piece of business your team will ever do. He was never special and you somehow milked Barca for all that money. You should be building the guy a statue not worried about dressing him down.What is a tragedy is that one more year, Suarez and Cutinho's European ambitions will remain unfulfilled.
Coutinho, yes. Suarez already won a European Cup with Barcelona in 2015. He scored the winner in the final.What is a tragedy is that one more year, Suarez and Cutinho's European ambitions will remain unfulfilled.
Thank you, some of the comments in here are asinine in their stupidity.Coutinho, yes. Suarez already won a European Cup with Barcelona in 2015. He scored the winner in the final.
One, I was tongue in cheek and I am not every Liverpool fan.One of the many really detestable things about Liverpool as a fan base is this ugly habit of turning every player who leaves into a villain. Suarez was a tough loss at the time but Coutinho was likely the best piece of business your team will ever do. He was never special and you somehow milked Barca for all that money. You should be building the guy a statue not worried about dressing him down.
Edit: meant to include that then you’ll eat alive any player who doesn’t work out like Karius or Carroll. Not even trying to start a fight but man you just made it to the CL final in consecutive years enjoy your team and thank whatever deity you wish that a tram like Barca paid you for Coutinho
I get that it’s a bit of an easy joke and today isn’t the day anyway, we can discuss it in offseason or something. Good day for your boys it’s a real statement win. Really don’t even want to try to encroach on what is surely an awesome moment right now. Was just seeing a lot of the same sentiment around the internet at the same timeOne, I was tongue in cheek and I am not every Liverpool fan.
Two, I don't care that Coutinho's departure worked well for us. He wanted to leave and we begged him to stay yet he forced our hand.
Third and most important, it's vitally important for a team like Liverpool to establish that it's not a stepping stone for a player's ambition before they move on to bigger and better things. They must establish they are bigger and better thing so that we don't have our best player force a transfer out of the club every couple of years.
I don't begrudge Suarez at all - I think he'd outgrown the club given where they were at in 2014 and went about getting his transfer in a reasonable way (a year after trying to pull some shit to go to Arsenal, but I digress). He's a pain in the dick to play against, but he gave Liverpool supporters some of the best football they'll ever see.One of the many really detestable things about Liverpool as a fan base is this ugly habit of turning every player who leaves into a villain. Suarez was a tough loss at the time but Coutinho was likely the best piece of business your team will ever do. He was never special and you somehow milked Barca for all that money. You should be building the guy a statue not worried about dressing him down.
Edit: meant to include that then you’ll eat alive any player who doesn’t work out like Karius or Carroll. Not even trying to start a fight but man you just made it to the CL final in consecutive years enjoy your team and thank whatever deity you wish that a tram like Barca paid you for Coutinho
I don't begrudge Suarez at all - I think he'd outgrown the club given where they were at in 2014 and went about getting his transfer in a reasonable way (a year after trying to pull some shit to go to Arsenal, but I digress). He's a pain in the dick to play against, but he gave Liverpool supporters some of the best football they'll ever see.
Coutinho's choice was:
This was after he'd twice feigned injuries to force a move in the preceding summer, notably missing the Hoffenheim UCL qualifying tie. The absence of a player of his caliber in the UCL Final was huge, especially as AOC (lol) had done his knee - Liverpool had to bring Lallana into that match for significant minutes.
- Wait six months while making a newly-upped Sanchezian weekly wage, helping the team progress in the UCL and qualify for top 4, have an outstanding Liverpool legacy, or
- Leave and only play League and CdR games while Barcelona was already walking the league
Liverpool supporters' attitudes toward Coutinho aren't the result of a Larry Lucchino-concocted hit piece - Coutinho put that finger up and let it hang for the better part of a year. I hope he never has anything to show for it. If that makes me bitter, so be it
Ugh I wish you were here during the racism incident.As for Suarez... He’s a disgusting player. He’s insanely talented, but he has absolutely no shame. His methods are filthy, despicable, and interminable. I hated him with LFC, I hate him with Uruguay, and I hate him with Barca. He has all the negatives of Diego Costa, but with a much higher overall level of play. I don’t understand how he’s given the benefit of the doubt time and time again while showing up refs around the globe.
Third and most important, it's vitally important for a team like Liverpool to establish that it's not a stepping stone for a player's ambition before they move on to bigger and better things. They must establish they are the bigger and better thing so that we don't have our best player force a transfer out of the club every couple of years.
Problem is that in soccer, contracts are more of a suggestion. If a player decides he wants to leave, eventually he ll have his way.I think this is 2015 thinking. I think, with the huge disparity in revenue streams between the EPL and every other league, that no big six team, even Spurs, have to be a stepping stone unless it makes good business sense to sell a player. That includes being able to say no to teams like Real and Barca unless they are getting a stupid ransom.
Obviously what happens with Hazard, Pogba and Eriksen this summer will reveal the accuracy of my belief.
I pretty much co-sign this. I didn’t like how he left but he’s proof that no player is bigger than the club. In retrospect, it was a great move for Liverpool. If he moves to United in the summer, I reserve the right to make “Phil really wants to win the Europa League” jokes.I really don't have a problem with Suarez. He stayed another year after he wanted to leave and gave absolutely everything to a near-title-winning season. I wouldn't have had any issue with Coutinho if he'd finished the season last year and they sold him, but he basically went on strike to force a move. It's not a huge thing in the end because of the fee they got for him and how they've strengthened the team with those funds.
If he was having a great season with Barca I wouldn't care. I'm just glad he struggled in these two games.
It's not, except nobody whines when Southampton fans boo him when he returns.Remind me again how Van Dijk going on strike to move to Liverpool is different from Coutinho going on strike to leave Liverpool?
Yeah, that was a pretty silly comment. Neymar left Barca. Ronaldo left United and Real Madrid. Pogba may force his way out of ManU this summer. Liverpool is a clear top destination and club for star players.As for Liverpool being a club where the best players want to stay, they absolutely are. Some players though will want to leave no matter what. I stopped wondering why a long time ago. Cristiano left us when we were one of the unquestionably best two teams in the world (and he didn’t leave us for the other). The way Coutinho handled it, I can see why it bothered the fans. If Salah wanted to go for a new challenge, for example, I think fans would be okay with it. Hell, at my club I could see most players leaving and right now I wouldn’t blame them.
A huge piece of the puzzle is wages. Recent success and the manager’s reputation play a role, but players are usually following the wages...which track pretty closely with reputation, unsurprisingly.Yeah, that was a pretty silly comment. Neymar left Barca. Ronaldo left United and Real Madrid. Pogba may force his way out of ManU this summer. Liverpool is a clear top destination and club for star players.
Going back a decade ..some notable leavings (all money in GB Stirling)Remind me again how Van Dijk going on strike to move to Liverpool is different from Coutinho going on strike to leave Liverpool?
These guys are all highly paid and use the leverage they have to control as much of their careers as they can. I think it’s absolutely insane to expect kids from South America and even continental Europe to feel anything more than a passing connection with a club or fan base toward a club in the Uk. Some City fans do this with Milner because he ran his mouth a bit after leaving (ran down his contract because he seemed to have a side deal with Liverpool, btw)and while my mind has indulged that some at times it never really bothered me because these guys have like 10 years to earn as much money as possible to setup their families for life. We don’t allow them to talk about their club like it’s just a job but then get livid when the platitudes they say so we can pretend they bleed for the club seem empty when they decide to take their job in another direction.
I guess for me we as fans need to just cherish when those weird special connections do arise instead of expecting them. I mean Pablo Zabaleta was one of those for us and I know it is different because he left while old but the dude just wanted to keep playing regularly and earning while he could. Good for him, can’t wait until he comes back as a coach. Kompany May be facing the same choice. Coutinho was hardly a club legend and I don’t think he had any kind of special connection with the fans except for their adoration when he curled in his yearly screamer against City. Aguero was linked to Madrid for years and it never bothered me at all, if he went we’d have replaced him. I guess maybe that’s where I think the mistake is in the big clubs don’t sell their best players comment above: true big clubs can and do but they do so knowing they can replace with similar quality or better. Featuring Mané and getting Van Dijk and the other 7 players you spent the Coutinho money on was a big club kind of move. More like Madrid selling Ozil or Di Maria than a sign that the club couldn’t keep top talent
I don't think you are right on Sterling. How can a view of him as a mercenary be there before his LFC career began...at the age of 16? I don't understand your rating system but while 50M may have seemed like a good deal at the time, I can remember a lot of fans saying they fleeced City for that money. Well, Sterling has become a top 5 player in the league and is still only 24. If City went to sell him now he'd at least be worth 150M with today's prices.Raheem Stirling - July 2015 - ~50m to Manchester City. It was always recognized that his potential was enormous but was never seen as a big fan favourite. His constant whining about his contract gave him a reputation as strictly a mercenary (a view that preceded his LFC career). The sale was seen as coup of sorts. He has been booed mercilessly subsequently.
Rating A+
Vilified ? Yes Unfairly ? No
* Note - has completely restored his reputation by a) reaching his potential and b) his laudable public stance against racism
* Note 2 - he will still be booed at Anfield
You are right that players are more or less mercenaries. But I think that you are wrong in stating that LFC fandom is unique in it's treatment of ex-superstars.
Everybody vilifies players who have rejected their home team for greener pastures. Its only natural.
When Stirling was having his contract dispute with LFC there were lots of stories that he had forced his way out of QPR(?) in the same manner .. no links sadly - just my foggy memory.I don't think you are right on Sterling. How can a view of him as a mercenary be there before his LFC career began...at the age of 16? I don't understand your rating system but while 50M may have seemed like a good deal at the time, I can remember a lot of fans saying they fleeced City for that money. Well, Sterling has become a top 5 player in the league and is still only 24. If City went to sell him now he'd at least be worth 150M with today's prices.
I also think you're wrong about fans vilifying their players who have left. Cristiano's name is still sung at Old Trafford. Berbatov is remembered fondly at Spurs, same with Modric. Chelsea fans don't harbor any ill will towards KDB or Lukaku...
Was everyone this sneering about what Virgil Van Dijk did to Southampton? Because that's pretty much how it went down. He basically withdrew from the team, went about training on his own, and whined until he got his transfer to Liverpool. But I'm sure you're only disgusted by this behavior when it disfavors your team, rather than having the result of giving you the best defender in the EPL, right?Coutinho did what every aspiring diva does. It’s one of my gripes with the modern game. I’d much rather see a player that deserts his contract be blacklisted rather than rewarded. He abandoned his side in-season for his own benefit. Regardless of accomplishment, that is garbage behavior. While Liverpool won the long-term “argument” over his transfer, the fans are absolutely entitled to their anger over his methods.
Those are crazy comparisons. Sterling was a 20 year old that was made the focal point of the team by his manager and was offered huge wages by the club for a player that young. LFC did all they could to protect him by even allowing him to go on vacation to Jamaica in the middle of the season due to fears that he would become exhausted from playing too many games at a young age. In response, he refused to negotiate any contract offer, had his agent go on TV to say Sterling wouldn't re-sign for even $700k a week, and basically forced Liverpool's hand after feigning an illness to get out of pre-season matches.I don't think you are right on Sterling. How can a view of him as a mercenary be there before his LFC career began...at the age of 16? I don't understand your rating system but while 50M may have seemed like a good deal at the time, I can remember a lot of fans saying they fleeced City for that money. Well, Sterling has become a top 5 player in the league and is still only 24. If City went to sell him now he'd at least be worth 150M with today's prices.
I also think you're wrong about fans vilifying their players who have left. Cristiano's name is still sung at Old Trafford. Berbatov is remembered fondly at Spurs, same with Modric. Chelsea fans don't harbor any ill will towards KDB or Lukaku...
Yeah poor little plucky Liverpool who have spent what like 400 million pounds in the last 3 windows? Christ you guys spent at least 150 this summer to add onto a CL final squad and are somehow convinced you’re David against GoliathAll of these responses to TeddyKGB’s snark?
If only Liverpool had the oil wealth of a despotic prince to throw around, the supporters would never have to watch a key player leave in his prime. C’est la vie.
Touchy, eh?Yeah poor little plucky Liverpool who have spent what like 400 million pounds in the last 3 windows? Christ you guys spent at least 150 this summer to add onto a CL final squad and are somehow convinced you’re David against Goliath
Man do you guys make it hard to be happy for you.Touchy, eh?
Moralizing about professional sports is utterly pointless. But getting a rise out of people on a message board? Always enjoyable.
But at the time it wasn’t crazy for Sterling to want to leave Liverpool, who were in disarray, to go to City. Yet Liverpool fans acted like he committed treason. He left for a better chance at winning, and at the time he was right.Those are crazy comparisons. Sterling was a 20 year old that was made the focal point of the team by his manager and was offered huge wages by the club for a player that young. LFC did all they could to protect him by even allowing him to go on vacation to Jamaica in the middle of the season due to fears that he would become exhausted from playing too many games at a young age. In response, he refused to negotiate any contract offer, had his agent go on TV to say Sterling wouldn't re-sign for even $700k a week, and basically forced Liverpool's hand after feigning an illness to get out of pre-season matches.
In comparison, Emre Can (despite privately rejecting offers and planning in advance to leave) played hard and made himself available for every game until his contract ran out and left to Juventus on a free. I didn't recall any Liverpool fan hate directed towards him.
What if Martial called United a joke and said he wouldn't play there again for any amount of money, and demanded to go to City, or worse...Liverpool. How would the reaction next time he played there be then?But at the time it wasn’t crazy for Sterling to want to leave Liverpool, who were in disarray, to go to City. Yet Liverpool fans acted like he committed treason. He left for a better chance at winning, and at the time he was right.
If Anthony Martial wanted to leave United right now for a PSG, a Chelsea, a Bayern, I don’t think United fans would hold him in disgust. I’m not saying I speak for an entire fan base but I think I’m right.
Can’t we have it both ways? I certainly wanted him to stay .. and was a little miffed with the fake injuries and all that. BUT .. I thought they DID fleece Barca .. they sold Coutinho at the very apex of his value. And I don’t want him back .. he has no place in the team. His work rate just isn’t up to Klopp’s standards and he’s easy to dispossess. Plus his wages are now unaffordable.No, I was responding to the chatter here and elsewhere about Coutinho 5 minutes after one of your clubs biggest wins. Really just remarking that you guys are so sensitive still over something so relatively common. I mean come on read that post above about each player and how they deserve scorn because they had the audacity to force a move away. It’s just crazy man.
The point about Van Dijk isn’t that you begrudge other fans who would boo him. It’s that you guys will unironically work yourselves into a lather about players who have done this to Liverpool while practically worshipping a player who did the same thing to move to your club. Instead of taking the appropriate lesson: that’s just how it is sometimes, there’s somehow this undercurrent that if you don’t write a poem about the magic of the Kop on the way out you are some sort of traitor.
Sterling is a red herring. LFC fan treatment at the time was absurd but at this point it seems to affect him so I do t blame the fans one bit in that regard. For me this really comes back to Coutinho. You fleeced Barca and somehow feel insulted by it.