No kidding. That's the sort of play, if you're Stevens, you go into the locker room and, with a slight smile, ask him, WTF was that??
I Believe in Time Lord...Why Can't You?
- Thread starter Bernie Carbohydrate
- Start date
But it was well meaning if that makes any sense. He had thrown an outlet earlier kind of into no man's land that Tatum tracked down and it led to an easy break. I like that he is thinking aggressively and trying to press what could be an offensive advantage - it was just the one at the end of the half was situationally dumb and poorly executed. He'll learn.
The big development to me is that he's no longer mucking up the offense. He's pretty clearly a positive contributor there already. It's not the normal progression for hyper-athletic 5s, but for whatever reason, he seems to get the offensive end a lot better.
He's clearly coachable. I didn't see him in Maine, but I suspect that he actually does have a few post moves and chooses not to ever use them. He does what you want out there for a guy with his package of skills and inexperience--screen and dive, else swing ball immediately. Make the occasional smart pass to a cutter.
I'm more surprised at how he has limited the defensive mistakes. I was wrong there. He's way closer than I thought. His rotations are better and he's staying home. Far from perfect, but halved the mistakes at least.
Best game of his career tonight. Lets hope its the start of something special...
View: https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/1193319344807264261?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/SLAMonline/status/1193319344807264261?s=20
Well, I was definitely wrong about Time Lord being better off in Maine. I still think there is stuff he could work on there, but clearly he can contribute meaningful value in Boston.
Caveat: I don't think it is an accident that TL and Jaylen (and even Javonte Green) all went off in the same game. I think the Spurs are an old team that gets by more on skill than athleticism. And the Celtics ran them off the court. Jaylen has 3 career 30+ point games in the regular season (he has 2 more in the playoffs), and 2 of the 3 were in San Antonio. His highest career ORtg against any team is the Spurs.
Caveat: I don't think it is an accident that TL and Jaylen (and even Javonte Green) all went off in the same game. I think the Spurs are an old team that gets by more on skill than athleticism. And the Celtics ran them off the court. Jaylen has 3 career 30+ point games in the regular season (he has 2 more in the playoffs), and 2 of the 3 were in San Antonio. His highest career ORtg against any team is the Spurs.
Really nothing new here. His offensive and defensive efficiency #s have been good since he started here last season.
He shoots >70%, he blocks shots and rebounds. This season he has added steals at a high rate (w/less blocks), probably is using his wingspan to deflect passes instead of leaping at every head fake. His Asst/TO rate is 2-1.
He just needs Brad to slowly drip more minutes his way. His could eventually turn into Clint Capela, but it will take time/patience.
Capela is a decent physical comp, I suppose, but Time Lord is going to be a different kind of player, see their assist rates.
I thought this was his most impressive play last night.
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1193320229100826624
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/NBCSCeltics/status/1193320229100826624
Yeah, good point--the main similarity is that they're both long athletic centers. Obviously Capela is a better defender, but TL is a lot more active in passing lanes, and is worlds ahead as a passer. Very different guys on the offensive end especially.
The speed of TL's progress defensively from preseason is astounding tbh. He was borderline unplayable and jumping at everything then.
Capela is in a very different offensive system with ball-dominant players around him.
BUT they have a similar skill set (athletic, active, non-shooters) and potentially a similar timeline in development.
I can't imagine Dantoni would use Capela at the top of the key to start the offense, with Harden and Westbrook. Brad likes to use his 5 at the top to set screens, roll, hold the ball for handoffs or pass to cutters. Capela is pretty much stationed at the dunker's spot, waiting to slam dribble-drive alley-oops or chase offensive boards.
If your thinking TL is a better passer, then that's just one more reason he should play more at the NBA level. Not sure what he would gain in Maine? He's clearly earning his keep in Boston and the experience at the NBA level is extremely valuable at his age. The G-League is a combination of Summer League and the 4th quarter of pre-season games
I came into the season very bullish on TL and was disappointed with his SL/pre-season, but think the kid was a little anxious/nervous. Just keep on feeding him NBA minutes and let his confidence grow.
Last edited:
He said right before that that he was definitely wrong about TL needing to be in Maine.
and then followed up with "there is still stuff he could work on there".
All of TL's work should be in Boston
Missed that. Yeah, I don't think he'll get much out of Maine. Being in the NBA forces him to work on his bad habits--he can't erase mistakes on defense by just blocking everything.
But the real reason not to send him to Maine is that his growth rate has been crazy, even the past 4 weeks. Why would you mess with something that's working really well developmentally?
Well, at this point, I wouldn't. But I'd argue that some bad habits can be more effectively worked on in lower stakes game situations against lesser talent. Williams' poor positioning and occasional block seeking poor judgment are things like that. Langford's poor shot mechanics is another example so I'm glad he (Langford) is down there.
The good thing about Williams is that he has, in addition to his athleticism, a good feel for some parts of the game (mainly passing). That bodes well for his development wherever he plays.
Fair enough. There is a time and place for development, 100% agree with you. Romeo needs development, as does Waters and Tacko. I've noticed TL's improved positioning, communication and adjustment to not try to block everything this season. YMMV
If Romeo can put up 132/100 ORtg/DRtg or a 4.4 BPM or .5 VORP this season in the NBA (like TL did his rookie year) then I'll probably be against him spending time in the G-League next season.
TL was a lottery talent whose draft stock dropped due to maturity issues. He answered those effort/maturity issues, IMO, by staying in Boston all Summer. He worked his tail off at the Auerbach Ctr, with Gordon Hayward, under the watchful eyes of the Celtics staff. That's was a good step in his development. The only thing holding him back from his potential is NBA floor time and confidence. Brad realizes that and is slowly bringing him along into situations where he can succeed. It's working.
In addition to that, between now and Dec15th Brad needs to figure out the 5 since we have good/great players playing 1-4. Before they go making any trades I'd like to see if TL and Theis could front the larger 5s in the NBA and see if that is effective. Maybe we don't need a big body 5? The only way we're going to find that out is by TL playing NBA minutes. If anyone should go to Maine its Vincent Poirier, the guy is getting next to no run.
ALSO in order for the Celtics to retain 1-4 long term, they'll need to save $$$ at the 5. TL is cheap, effective, and under team control. His development at the NBA is extremely important for title contention in
Last edited:
The bolded is something that we need to discuss more. Brad's philosophy has generally been to not double, but this team is doubling the post with really high frequency. They're doing it smartly, because they have a lot of smart players, and are sending people from different angles and not right away. But clearly they think that their best chance against post guys is to use their speed to double at the right time and then rotate hard.
It's working really well so far. They've had offensive rebounding issues at time, but no big post player has really had a big game against them yet. And the schedule hasn't been cupcakes in that regard: they've already faced Embiid, Giannis, Siakam, Love, and Aldridge. (Yes, Siakam's style is a bit on the edge, but the other 4 are big matchup problems down low).
Watch Smart interact with him on the court at the defensive end. Smart is basically a coach on the floor for the kid.
And yeah, I also am loving watching the maturation of Rob Will III.
And yeah, I also am loving watching the maturation of Rob Will III.
I think the C's are fine with letting opponents spend offensive time/effort working the ball down low. Playing small BIGs, 6'8" Theis/TL, is almost baiting them. Letting opposing 5s take challenged fadeaways from the block while getting harassed by several smaller, quicker players should lead to more steals and breakaways.
Heck, we're already seeing TL steal balls and Theis block shots at extremely high rates.
While we've only seen 1 game from Kanter, and he was mildly effective against Embiid, I'm still very skeptical of his defense. I know you're not a fan, but my choice for a super cheap, defense-first 5 from a team going nowhere is Nerlens Noel. His defensive #s are gaudy. He'd be behind Theis/TL so this would be a depth move
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html
Last edited:
Grant coaches him, too, even though he is also working through his own learning curve. See the viedo at #7 here:
https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2019/11/this-boston-celtics-team-is-the-opposite-of-last-year-brad-stevens-loves-marcus-smart-10-things-we-learned-vs-charlotte-hornets.html
Yeah, that's another reason to keep him up. Player development (and human development in general) is very holistic: if a certain environment system is working, you want to keep going with that and only make minor tweaks.
We don't know exactly which factor has been helping TL improve (coaching from teammates, NBA minutes, general adaptive ability, whatever), but clearly it's working, so you ride that.
I can’t imagine there’s anybody willing to argue for Maine anymore. I was pretty low on TL after he looked so lost in summer league but he really seems to have figured out a couple things that are really working for him on both ends. He needs to be getting at least 15 mins a game from here on out and preferably 20. His development is now the priority over playing Kanter to win games or screwing around with Grant at the 5 small ball lineups.
If he can improve his defensive positioning and stay home/box out for the defensive rebounding he could conceivably be ahead of Theis and a long term answer at the 5.
If he can improve his defensive positioning and stay home/box out for the defensive rebounding he could conceivably be ahead of Theis and a long term answer at the 5.
While I was watching TL highlights with one hand, I saw the beginning of his block/run-out sequence (at 3:11).
Everyone focuses on the block, but his post defense prior to that on Aldridge was impressive. When Aldridge goes back for the fadeaway, TL doesn't bite or jump--just sticks one hand up. Aldridge, one of the best post fadeaway guys in the league rethinks his choices, and backs the ball out. The block/run-out follows.
If he can stay disciplined like that, it changes a lot of things vs skilled post matchups later this year.
View: https://youtu.be/sx2GfZweUqo?t=191
Everyone focuses on the block, but his post defense prior to that on Aldridge was impressive. When Aldridge goes back for the fadeaway, TL doesn't bite or jump--just sticks one hand up. Aldridge, one of the best post fadeaway guys in the league rethinks his choices, and backs the ball out. The block/run-out follows.
If he can stay disciplined like that, it changes a lot of things vs skilled post matchups later this year.
View: https://youtu.be/sx2GfZweUqo?t=191
While I like Theis's ability to hit the 3, TL does have a higher ceiling. TL will only learn those defensive positioning by playing with the main 10 man rotation.
Agree on Grant, I like him backing up Jaylen at the 4. He actually may be the answer, with Hayward out, to start along w/Theis against the bigger teams (Philly).
Winning this season is priority #1, but developing TL for future years is worth feeding him additional minutes at the expense of EK.
If Grant could hit the 3, he absolutely could be the 4 against big teams. We may get to find out on Dec 13th...
Without him shooting the 3, I think him+Theis just isn't enough spacing. Theis can hit the 3 in theory, but it's one of those slow windup 3s that the other team lives with because it doesn't really affect their ability to help.
Grant+TL, however, could be really interesting. I think that in 2-3 months we'll see that as the more natural "big" lineup (and I like Theis a lot).
Was Williams lost in summer league? I don't recall that. He averaged about 10 and 10 with 2 blocks in less than 20 minutes/game.
https://gigemgazette.com/2019/07/14/texas-am-basketball-robert-williams-dominating-summer-league/
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2019/07/14/robert-williams-made-solid-strides-during-summer-league/AdRhtrYFoVha8eWA65uwaO/story.html
https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2019/07/20/sophomore-sleeper-can-robert-williams-iii-make-an-impact/
Time Lord had one subpar game in Vegas, if memory serves, after which a number of posters rushed to declare him a lost cause.
He wasn't "lost" per se, but he was jumping at everything and didn't look like he had grown a lot in his game. Things improved after the first game, but the guy who played against San Antonio would have been unrecognizable.
It's pretty easy for physically talented bigs to put up 10/10+2 blocks in Summer League.
Yeah he was productive, but he was pretty ADD on defense for most of the time. Slow to react sometimes, overreacting other times.
I'm a huge fan and saw him headed to Maine, just because it seemed that he was taking more off the table than he was bringing to it. I'm grateful to have been wrong about that.
and the G League which is why he needs to be in the NBA. Last year in 5 games, he averaged 15.2 points, 9.8 rebounds, 2.2 assists, 2.6 blocks in 25.2 minutes on 73.3% shooting. Again, that was last season... and the beginning of last season. I know it's been said, but he will get nothing out of the G league. Being on the NBA roster all of last year is paying off this year.
TL should be getting 20 mpg this season, regardless of the health of Kanter. He has shown that he deserves minutes. Despite the obvious - good rim runner and shot blocker, he's done well with some of the little things, like setting high picks, passing the ball from the high post, covering the floor on pick/roll, defending the paint.
And shockingly (for me at least) passing on the break. Not a polished skill in terms of judgement - but I love the instinct to get the ball moving. Easy buckets warm the soul on a cold winter day.
No. He consistently found himself in the wrong place on defense jumping out of his shoes at the wrong times. He only had one good game and many posters rushed to say he looked better from that one game.the one thing that did show up in the summer league was his passing but that’s always been in his scouting report.
The Robert Williams thing seems a bit odd. He wasn't in the building last night (Hayward and Theis were both there). It's a shame, because with Theis out - I was expecting RW would have a lot of opportunity.
The reports speculate that he got injured during pre-game warmups. In which case he may have been sent to get treatment, which would include keeping his ankle iced and elevated. Difficult to do while on the bench.
Did anyone see him in pre-game warm-ups?
Isn't this just the thing with TL? It seems like he is always getting dinged up in warm-ups/practice. This is just a few games into his second season, and I'm pretty sure that has happened more than once - which is rather unusual.
Isn't this just the thing with TL? It seems like he is always getting dinged up in warm-ups/practice. This is just a few games into his second season, and I'm pretty sure that has happened more than once - which is rather unusual.
I thought he'd get more 2nd half run last night, looked good in the first. He's the best passing, rebounding, shot blocking and stealing big man we've got. Defensive awareness still needs work, maybe he missed some rotations and got sat.
In the first half, I thought he looked good on a couple of defensive possessions - deflecting passes and so forth. But then, didn't he dribble the ball off his foot like twice?!? I thought he also missed an alley oop or two and I thought he might have been hit in the face with a pass. Sort of seemed like his mind wasn't in it, or he was partially in another dimension or something.