I need a ruling

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
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Apr 11, 2007
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What say you denizens of Gazza-
I've been a Newcastle fan for roughly a decade at this point.  I got in to Newcastle because Alan Shearer dominated fools in FIFA lo those many years ago.  I've gone so far as to actually go to St. James' Park. Newcastle really feeds that sadomasochistic desire of mine that vanished after the Red Sox won in 2004.
 
My middle brother began following soccer around the same time I did and followed Chelsea due to his (at the time) roommate's unhealthy obsession with Wayne Bridge. I've always had a soft spot for Chelsea as a result because I like my brother and his roommate is a pretty rad dude. I get married in 10 days to a woman who has coincidentally been a Chelsea fan since birth, as her father has been attending games at Stamford Bridge for something like 4 decades. My very soon to be father in law continues to tell me that he won't hand his daughter over to me until I give in and renounce Newcastle. To his credit, he begrudgingly accepts Newcastle as a choice as in his eyes they're a proper club for an American- he would have serious issue had I been an Arsenal or Manchester fan or something.
 
I've always pulled for Chelsea apart from when they play the Toon, although I would never classify myself as a Chelsea fan.  Given the continued shit that comes out of NE1 and my tenuous at best connection to the Toon and my actual connection to Chelsea, I think I'm going to switch.  I'm 31 years old, increasingly overweight, balding, about to get married- I have enough torture and bullshit in my life already. I don't need any more hate.
 
I would NEVER do this with a team I have an actual connection to.  I was born/live here in Boston and I'll be a Sox/Patriots etc fan until I die, no matter where the hell life takes me. I feel I have an obligation to stay true to Boston, but I'm increasingly finding excuses and reasons why I don't have to continue to torture myself with the black and white considering it was a video game that got me involved in the first place.  I'll always have a soft spot for Newcastle but at this point I just want to go with the crowd.
 
So what's the verdict? Total asshole move on my part, or somewhat justified?
 

soxfan121

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Sometime in the near future....
 
It's the 80th minute. You are sitting next to your FIL in his seats at Stamford Bridge. Chelsea is leading 1-0 over Newcastle. The Blues are totally dominating possession. Suddenly, against the run of play, someone in black and white stripes makes an incredible play and scores an equalizer. 
 
WHAT DO YOU DO?
 
Answer this question honestly. If you tell your FIL you are giving up your Newcastle allegiance, you've gotta be pissed off and unhappy. Can you be? Or will you be secretly pleased? 
 
Your FIL is never going to like you - you're boning his daughter. But he can respect you. Make the choice that makes your life easier. Life is long and marriage is hard. Don't agree to give up your rooting interest unless you are SURE you can leave it behind. Because if you jump up and cheer in the sea of blue that is groaning, your FIL will lose all respect for you.
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
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Apr 11, 2007
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I've always been a fan of both teams, although it was more of a 80/20 split in terms of time, attention, etc.  I'm just reversing that split essentially.  I'll always hope the Toon does well except when they play Chelsea.  
 
Her old man has no sons.  I know he would very much enjoy if I fully embraced the dark side.  I can tell he genuinely likes it when we talk soccer.  
 
I mean, I see it as a win win- I get to more fully back a team I've always enjoyed who shows actual ambition and wins things and improve relationships with in laws and my wife. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this is, to be honest, vanity.  Anyone who knows me knows my affection for the Toon.  I'm sure folks will see me as  a douchebag for doing this, but it feels right to me. 
 

teddykgb

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Seven Costanza said:
I've always been a fan of both teams, although it was more of a 80/20 split in terms of time, attention, etc.  I'm just reversing that split essentially.  I'll always hope the Toon does well except when they play Chelsea.  
 
Her old man has no sons.  I know he would very much enjoy if I fully embraced the dark side.  I can tell he genuinely likes it when we talk soccer.  
 
I mean, I see it as a win win- I get to more fully back a team I've always enjoyed who shows actual ambition and wins things and improve relationships with in laws and my wife. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this is, to be honest, vanity.  Anyone who knows me knows my affection for the Toon.  I'm sure folks will see me as  a douchebag for doing this, but it feels right to me. 
 
Doing this while the toon are in a down period makes this seem wrong to me.  You sign up for the good and the bad and right now Newcastle (probably) aren't relegation fodder but they're really operating poorly and are turning into a joke of a club.  It's awfully convenient to jump ship now.
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
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From a financial perspective they're operating quite well actually and I did stick out 2009-10 no problem, but the convenience argument is applicable.
 
I just don't get any real enjoyment out of them anymore.  
 

Zomp

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Why can't you just always keep the soft spot for Chelsea?
 
I wouldn't consider myself a fan of any other English team, but I always have a rooting interest in any game I watch.  Usually its the underdog, but it depends on circumstances.  For example, I celebrated pretty hard when Torres rounded Valdes to knock Barca out of the Champions League a few years back.  You can enjoy the highs and get depressed by the lows of both clubs, no?
 

RSN Diaspora

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I don't think you'd be coming here for a ruling if you were really OK with making such a switch. Stick with NUFC...as long as Mascho still posts here you'll only be the second-biggest fuckface among their supporters.
 

MiracleOfO2704

not AWOL
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Jul 12, 2005
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Seven Costanza said:
I've always been a fan of both teams, although it was more of a 80/20 split in terms of time, attention, etc.  I'm just reversing that split essentially.  I'll always hope the Toon does well except when they play Chelsea.  
 
Her old man has no sons.  I know he would very much enjoy if I fully embraced the dark side.  I can tell he genuinely likes it when we talk soccer.  
 
I mean, I see it as a win win- I get to more fully back a team I've always enjoyed who shows actual ambition and wins things and improve relationships with in laws and my wife. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this is, to be honest, vanity.  Anyone who knows me knows my affection for the Toon.  I'm sure folks will see me as  a douchebag for doing this, but it feels right to me. 
 
If you do make the switch, it can't simply be this way. I do understand where you're coming from about Ashley/Pardew, but if you're switching, it should be because A.) Chelsea have just overwhelmed you with some element of their style that you simply crave more than maintaining your loyalty to NUFC, or B.) Ashley's mismanagement and interminable tenure has made you question why you loved the club in the first place and have no intention of going back. It's not totally analogous, but imagine telling your wife, "I really love you, but once in a while, I just like to spoon with my ex-girlfriend."
 

mascho

Kane is Able
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RSN Diaspora said:
I don't think you'd be coming here for a ruling if you were really OK with making such a switch. Stick with NUFC...as long as Mascho still posts here you'll only be the second-biggest fuckface among their supporters.
 
The man has a point.
 

rodderick

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I understand why someone who hasn't had a family history of rooting for a midtable English club would be inclined to make the switch after realizing they'll very likely never win anything meaningful in their lifetime, but I'm of the opinion that you should stick to a team no matter what. 
 
Especially with a soccer team it takes character to keep with them through thick and thin, because it isn't like baseball/football where even the worst teams, if well run, have a chance of being competitive in about 5 years. If you're watching mostly to have a good time and just enjoy the sport, make the switch to Chelsea. If you want to really invest yourself into a team, stick with Newcastle. 
 

soxfan121

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Seven Costanza said:
I've always been a fan of both teams, although it was more of a 80/20 split in terms of time, attention, etc.  I'm just reversing that split essentially.  I'll always hope the Toon does well except when they play Chelsea.  
 
Her old man has no sons.  I know he would very much enjoy if I fully embraced the dark side.  I can tell he genuinely likes it when we talk soccer.  
 
I mean, I see it as a win win- I get to more fully back a team I've always enjoyed who shows actual ambition and wins things and improve relationships with in laws and my wife. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this is, to be honest, vanity.  Anyone who knows me knows my affection for the Toon.  I'm sure folks will see me as  a douchebag for doing this, but it feels right to me. 
 
Do this and Newcastle will end up winning title. With a last-second goal at Stamford Bridge. While you're sitting next to your wife's dad. And if you've told him you're a Blue for Life because you love his little girl...you are fucked. 
 
Seven Costanza said:
I just don't get any real enjoyment out of them anymore.  
 
How enjoyable was the Victor Kiam Era? How great were the 90s, especially 1999 as a Sox fan? How about 2003? Good times? 2012 was the best season ever, amirite? And I'll bet this season you're enjoying the hell out of watching the day care center lose...right?
 
You are going to regret this and worse, you're gonna look like a dipshit to your FIL. 
 

Seven Costanza

Fred Astaire of SoSH
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The only ruling I was really looking for is how bad this will make me look, given that I post here a fair amount.  I got that answer.  My decision was already made.  
 
121, I don't think the NE/Sox analogies are an apt comparison.  I was born here, I live here, MY family has lived in New England for 300+ years.  I don't have a choice there.  
 
 
No snark- I do appreciate the opinions expressed here.  Uncharted territory and all that. 
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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If you're not getting any enjoyment out of following Newcastle, that's a serious sign of discontent, and I'm not one to encourage people to do something that causes them actual pain.
 
If you've always had a soft spot in your heart for Chelsea, why not just...follow both? The clubs live in two different worlds right now, there's nothing wrong IMO in following both of them knowing that expectations for each club couldn't be more different.
 
Obviously I'm a Norwich fan but since they're in the Championship this year my EPL team is now Villa, and always has been when Norwich aren't up. I see nothing wrong with that.
 
Sports are supposed to be fun.
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
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I think it rather depends on your initial enthusiasm for the sport and the reasons for the dumping/switch. As mentioned upthread - if you grow up being a die hard fan for any team then switching - for whatever reason - is just not allowed. But in your circumstances I can see it being permissible. But the current state of the team being dumped can never be the reason for the switch - front runners are a despised breed of human being.
 
Edit : after reading SJH's post he does have a point. The BPL is really two leagues .. it's probably OK to be a fan of teams in both halves. The only team one can never, ever , upon pain of eternal damnation , switch allegiance to would be ManU.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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You're supporting them because your new family are fans, not because they're good and Newcastle are bad. Perfectly fine and expected.
 
And congrats on the marriage, especially since you're balding and overweight (sorta kidding).
 

soxfan121

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Seven Costanza said:
121, I don't think the NE/Sox analogies are an apt comparison.  I was born here, I live here, MY family has lived in New England for 300+ years.  I don't have a choice there.  
 
They apply to your FIL. 
 
In 2003, I had a ton of friends come over to watch on the big screen. One guy, Jim, wasn't a Red Sox fan for life - he grew up a Royals fan or some shit. Anyway, he  brought his girlfriend - who knew nothing about baseball. Late in the game the know-nothing girlfriend says "That skinny guy looks tired. Why don't they take him out?"
 
I got married about a year later. Every single guy in the room that night got married within five years of that night. None of us invited Jim or his know-nothing girlfriend. 
 
If you can't commit fully - can't say right here and now that you will react appropriately as a Chelsea fan next to you Chelsea-fan-for-life FIL to the scenarios above, TELL HIM. "I'm gonna try to be a Blues fan. But I'll always have a small bit of love for Newcastle and I'm not sure that if they had a chance to win the title at Stamford Bridge someday I wouldn't cheer in that moment." Again...the goal is not for him to like you. It is to respect you. And good luck with your life.
 

Vinho Tinto

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Since there are American fans who will have one favorite team in 15 different leagues,  I don't think it's wrong to have two in the same league. Especially since they are not historical rivals. It's not like you live in Newcastle or London and would be asked to explain the two team thing all that often.
 

Stanley Steamer

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It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'll weigh in on the side of spreading your love around. Chances are, you won't be able to keep yourself from rooting for Toon, no matter what you tell yourself. I mean, great town, bomber unis, strange accent-- who needs actual results on the pitch?
I'm in the same boat, rooting for a team that has been fucking itself over for a decade now (and everyone hates, to boot). So years back, I took an interest in Chelsea as well, and have gained some satisfaction from rooting for a team that, you know, actually wins a lot. But I won't stop rooting for Leeds (well I might, if those fuckers manage to get relegated again!), and I'll support them over Chelsea if they ever play in future. Anyone can root for the frontrunner; it takes intestinal fortitude to root for shite.
As an aside, I married a woman from LA. Her father was deceased, but her skinny sister did put one condition on our marriage: it was down to me to make sure that she didn't "let herself go". I assured my SIL that I would leave my bride if she ever got a pound above 550.
 

SoxFanInCali

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I've been giving you grief about your impending Chelsea switch for a couple years in anticipation of this happening, so this is no surprise to me.  I even checked your Facebook to see if your cover photo was still you at St James' Park the other day.  It was then...but it's gone now.
 

dirtynine

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Just my opinion of course, but the "torture" is part of what I love. Following a team a roller-coaster ride for fans of all but a few clubs world-wide.  "No more bullshit in your life" and "sports fan" just don't go together in my mind. 
 
If you just want an easy team to pull for that will always be good, always be on TV and always have shirts in stock at the local Sports Authority, and its just a casual thing you get some enjoyment from, then go for it.  But if you're serious about being a fan and actually feel bad when your team is down and elated when they're up, then it's kind of a bum move.  
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Stick it out.  If your FIL has really been going to the Bridge for four decades, he's seen some awful football, shite management, and beaten down fandom in his time.  While he may kid you about renouncing Newcastle, he'll respect you more if you stick with your club when times are tough.  And if you keep Newcastle as your main club to support, you don't need to fully support a club whose artificial success has been financed by the blood of Russian orphans.
 

mascho

Kane is Able
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This his final test for you as a future son-in-law.  
 
He wants to know what kind of husband, partner, and perhaps father you will be.
 
He wants to know if you're the type of guy who will ask for a raise when he's earned one, or if he'll wait and say "my time will come" as the rest of the workforce passes him by.
 
He wants to know if you'll hang in there through thick and thin.  Through fights, down spells, lulls and everything else marriage throws your way.
 
He wants to know if you're loyal.
 
So you look this guy dead in the eye and tell him.  "No.  Why don't you support the Toon."
 

Zomp

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mascho said:
This his final test for you as a future son-in-law.  
 
He wants to know what kind of husband, partner, and perhaps father you will be.
 
He wants to know if you're the type of guy who will ask for a raise when he's earned one, or if he'll wait and say "my time will come" as the rest of the workforce passes him by.
 
He wants to know if you'll hang in there through thick and thin.  Through fights, down spells, lulls and everything else marriage throws your way.
 
He wants to know if you're loyal.
 
So you look this guy dead in the eye and tell him.  "No.  Why don't you support the Toon."
 
Awesome
 

fletcherpost

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This is a strange case indeed. Firstly. FIL is a long standing Chelsea fan...is he a middle class Chelsea Fan or is he working class.  It helps to know if we're dealing with gentry, snob, geezer or racist...or mix of the above.
 
Anyway the point is this. If he can get you to change your mind regarding football loyalties, or can pressure you somewhat, then he has your balls in a vice for life and it won't end here. Even if you were thinking of jumping ship. It just isn't a good way to go...he'll tell all his cronies in the pub or wine bar or bistro or Lion's Club or masonic hall that he got you to change your mind, and they will all nod and laugh a little, and what they'll know is what we know is that he's got a hot poker with your arsehole's name on it. If he asks you to go grouse shooting in Bucks, don't go. 
 
There was a lot of subtextual truth in what mascho posted, not that he knows what subtextual truth is but that's a story for another day. If you turn coat and happily support Chelsea say hello to the gourmet Mayo. Or worse he might order you to make regular UKIP donations and attend monthly meetings.  On the plus side, you will be able to attend Pat Nevin's annual Burns Supper as your FIL's Plus 1.
 

Billy R Ford

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mascho said:
This his final test for you as a future son-in-law.  
 
He wants to know what kind of husband, partner, and perhaps father you will be.
 
He wants to know if you're the type of guy who will ask for a raise when he's earned one, or if he'll wait and say "my time will come" as the rest of the workforce passes him by.
 
He wants to know if you'll hang in there through thick and thin.  Through fights, down spells, lulls and everything else marriage throws your way.
 
He wants to know if you're loyal.
 
So you look this guy dead in the eye and tell him.  "No.  Why don't you support the Toon."
 
This is the answer. And then you show up to the wedding in your Newcastle United-inspired suit.
 
 

Dummy Hoy

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Stanley Steamer said:
It sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'll weigh in on the side of spreading your love around. Chances are, you won't be able to keep yourself from rooting for Toon, no matter what you tell yourself. I mean, great town, bomber unis, strange accent-- who needs actual results on the pitch?
I'm in the same boat, rooting for a team that has been fucking itself over for a decade now (and everyone hates, to boot). So years back, I took an interest in Chelsea as well, and have gained some satisfaction from rooting for a team that, you know, actually wins a lot. But I won't stop rooting for Leeds (well I might, if those fuckers manage to get relegated again!), and I'll support them over Chelsea if they ever play in future. Anyone can root for the frontrunner; it takes intestinal fortitude to root for shite.
As an aside, I married a woman from LA. Her father was deceased, but her skinny sister did put one condition on our marriage: it was down to me to make sure that she didn't "let herself go". I assured my SIL that I would leave my bride if she ever got a pound above 550.
 
All my prior asshole snark aside, this is where I fall. I think you're going to have a hard time leaving it behind, and a hard time putting quite as much passion into CFC.
 

teddykgb

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Seven Costanza said:
From a financial perspective they're operating quite well actually and I did stick out 2009-10 no problem, but the convenience argument is applicable.
 
I just don't get any real enjoyment out of them anymore.  
 
Your first instinct was to defend NUFC.  You're already doing this Chelsea fan thing wrong.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Whether you continue to root for NUFC, switch to Chelsea, or root for both, Chelsea will always be your second team.
This seems to me the fundamental issue - you can't really "choose" to support a team. It's a completely organic, mystical psychological process. Once that fandom is rooted there's no trading it in.
 

Joe D Reid

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The Newcastle thread is going to wither back down to me posting game reports to no one, isn't it.
 

Blundatola

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Joe D Reid said:
The Newcastle thread is going to wither back down to me posting game reports to no one, isn't it.
 
I don't know about that.  You can't spell masochism without mascho (or something like that).
 

Bosoxen

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I say this with all the love in the world for you, Tyler, but this is a chicken shit move. As others have already pointed out, your FiL will know that you're easy to manipulate. Plus, jumping ship while your current team is down is evil and you deserve every bit of ridicule you'll get.

Before I married my wife, my future FiL tried like hell to get me to switch my allegiance from the Sox to the Rangers - this was when the Rangers were going to World Series. I very politely told him to go screw and that I would never leave my team.

There's nothing wrong with a little friendly rivalry with your FiL (if you can call the hammer/nail relationship a rivalry). In your case, he'll win 90 percent of the time, but those rare times when Newcastle beats Chelsea will be really fucking sweet for you.

Congrats on the upcoming nuptials.
 

Gunfighter 09

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My very soon to be father in law continues to tell me that he won't hand his daughter over to me until I give in and renounce Newcastle.
 
 
I like the FiL. I am stealing this move in about 20 years. 
 

coremiller

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When you watch this:
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msTFZ1zrzao
 
Can you convince yourself to feel frustrated but resigned to brilliance, rather than pants-shittingly ecstatic?
 
 

soxfan121

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
 
I like the FiL. I am stealing this move in about 20 years. 
 
Will the lad also need to buy a set of spiked shoulder pads and face paint?
 

cjdmadcow

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You can probably guess my response to your question so I won't pile on as it's obviously something causing you some concern, but
 
To quote Nike...Just (don't) Do It. The elation you'll feel when battering Sunderland (yeah, right), or the thrill of reaching a cup final will be multiplied significantly by sticking with the Toon. So it's less likely than some other teams but things change - yes, even at SJP change will come - and with the support they have, the stadium, it's not as if you would be having to claw your way up from Division 2.
 
I wish you well on your wedding, in your speech you can tell you FiL exactly what you think of his team, rip off your suit and show him your black & white striped shirt.
 
Good luck.
 

Joe D Reid

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I'll also note that if you're having a traditional wedding, both you and your FIL will be wearing Newcastle colors. Tell him it looks good on him.
 

Zomp

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cjdmadcow said:
You can probably guess my response to your question so I won't pile on as it's obviously something causing you some concern, but
 
To quote Nike...Just (don't) Do It. The elation you'll feel when battering Sunderland (yeah, right), or the thrill of reaching a cup final will be multiplied significantly by sticking with the Toon. So it's less likely than some other teams but things change - yes, even at SJP change will come - and with the support they have, the stadium, it's not as if you would be having to claw your way up from Division 2.
 
I wish you well on your wedding, in your speech you can tell you FiL exactly what you think of his team, rip off your suit and show him your black & white striped shirt.
 
Good luck.
 
 
Does the groom give a speech in an English wedding?