International Football (non-USMNT)

[Infield Infidel]

 
 
As best I can tell, this is the rule from FIFA (it's from the 2011 version of the rules, but I doubt it changed):
 
Rule 18
 
4.  An expulsion automatically incurs suspension from the subsequent match,
even if imposed in a match that is later abandoned, annulled and/or forfeited.
The Disciplinary Committee may extend the duration of the suspension.
 

 
I think I found the confusing part 
 
Rule 19 
5. A match suspension is regarded as no longer pending if a match is 
retroactively forfeited because a player took part in a match despite being 
ineligible (art. 55). This also applies to the match suspension imposed on the 
player who took part in the match despite being ineligible.
 
I think in the rule they are talking about the subsequent match from rule 18.4, but it's not exactly clear

 

[Seen The Light]

 
 
I think I found the confusing part 
 
Rule 19 
5. A match suspension is regarded as no longer pending if a match is 
retroactively forfeited because a player took part in a match despite being 
ineligible (art. 55). This also applies to the match suspension imposed on the 
player who took part in the match despite being ineligible.
 
I think in the rule they are talking about the subsequent match from rule 18.4, but it's not exactly clear
 

 
I just read that about five times before I think I figured it out. I believe that applies to the following type of scenario:
 
Player A on Team X gets suspended for one game.  Player A plays in the next game for that team. 
 
Team Y protests that game, because Player A was ineligible.  Even though the match is ruled a forfeit retroactively, Player A is deemed to have served his suspension.  
 
As best I can tell, that wouldn't apply in this case.
 
And from the NY Times:
 

 
“It is a nightmare,” the deputy president of Cape Verde’s federation, Lena Vasconcelos, said after Thursday’s decision was announced. Vasconcelos said Cape Verde was confident its disqualification would be overturned, adding, “Lots of people have phoned up to tell us we are right, that when a match is forfeited all the red and yellow cards are taken away.”
But a FIFA spokesperson disagreed, citing Article 18 of the organization’s disciplinary code. Cape Verde has three days to appeal, but Monday’s draw will go ahead as planned.

 

[Infield Infidel]

I think I have seen the light   . If it's as you say, I would re-write Rule 19 to avoid confusion
 
 

Rule 19 
5. A The match suspension is regarded as no longer pending fulfilled if a the subsequent match is 
retroactively forfeited because a the suspended player took part in a match despite being 
ineligible (art. 55). This also applies to the match suspension imposed on the 
player who took part in the match despite being ineligible.
 

 
 
If we've learned anything today, it's that indefinite articles are the devil. I blame the French. 

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

I think it's intended to be more broad than that.  In addition to player A's suspension being considered to be discharged, another player "B" who was suspended at the time of that match would also be considered to have his suspension discharged.
 
So, to expand the example a little bit...
Team X and Team Y have an upcoming match.  Player A for Team X and Player B for Team Y are both to serve a one-match suspension.  Player A appears in the match anyway, but Player B sits out as he is supposed to do.  Even though the match is forfeit, both A and B have their suspensions discharged.

 

[Cellar-Door]

It is written correctly. The forfeited game counts as a game for the purpose of serving suspension both for the ineligible player who plays and any players who sit out on suspension.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Things can be written correctly but still not clearly. If I say, "I ate a bagel, and a bagel had cream cheese" it's unclear if those are the same bagel. Saying "A match suspension is regarded as no longer pending if a match is retroactively forfeited" doesn't clearly imply that it's the match being served by the suspension. Which match? The one player A was suspended in? The match he served? The match in which ineligible player B played? Some interim match? It should say "if the match served is retroactively forfeited"
 
The way Cellar-Door rephrased it is far clearer. Putting the adjective "ineligible" before the word "player," and using the word "any" and the plural "players" so you know it includes more than one is much clearer than using "a" to imply more than one. 

 

[Seen The Light]

 I blame the French. 
 

 
That's probably the best answer.
 
And I agree with Mr. Wednesday that the clause is broader and includes his scenarios. 

 

[Titans Bastard]

CAF Playoffs:
 
Ivory Coast vs. Senegal
Ethiopia vs. Nigeria
Tunisia vs. Cameroon
Ghana vs. Egypt
Burkina Faso vs. Algeria
 
 
Bob Bradley will get a second crack at Ghana...  it won't be easy, but I'm really hoping Egypt qualifies.  It's a shame about the Cape Verde thing because had they advanced instead of Tunisia, Egypt would have been seeded for this.
 
EDIT: I lied.  Cape Verde would have been seeded in lieu of Egypt, thanks to the former's ACON performance and the latter's non-qualification.

 

[OCST]

I cringed a little when I saw Egypt vs. Ghana.  I'd love to see Bradley make it, and I have also enjoyed watching Ghana - they are a royal PITA, and that's a compliment.  It's a shame they both can't qualify.

 

[soxfan121]

Ivory Coast v. Senegal should be a cracking good match - last chance for the IC golden generation, right? 

 

[Infield Infidel]

ZURICH -- FIFA says the top seeds in the 2014 World Cup groups will be host Brazil and the seven best-ranked teams in the October standings. The next rankings are published on Oct. 17.

The current top seven teams are Spain, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Colombia, Belgium and Uruguay. Brazil is ranked No. 8.

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1572890/world-cup-seeds-based-october-world-ranking?cc=5901

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Wow. That increases the odds of a Group of Death - e.g., the Netherlands isn't likely to be seeded - but also makes it possible for a country like the US to get drawn in an easier group. (I'll very gladly take a 1994 redux and face a seeded Colombia...but something like US-Spain-Holland-Ghana group would make me cry.)

 

[Seen The Light]

I cringed a little when I saw Egypt vs. Ghana.  I'd love to see Bradley make it, and I have also enjoyed watching Ghana - they are a royal PITA, and that's a compliment.  It's a shame they both can't qualify.

 
Ghana doesn't want to play in Cairo. 
 
Now, I understand the issues with security in Egypt.  But if I were FIFA, I'd say to Ghana, "Fine, as long as you agree to play your own home game at a neutral site."  Considering how much of an advantage home-field is, it would be a disgrace to take away Egypt's home game in a "home and home" playoff but let Ghana keep theirs.

 

[soxfan121]

Excellent piece on Bob Bradley and Egypt National Team by Grant Wahl of SI.com
 

As Bradley prepares his team for the winner-take-all, aggregate-goal playoff against Ghana (Egypt will host the second leg in Cairo on Nov. 19), he faces the ongoing challenge of keeping his players together. "At a time when the country is divided, you want to make sure the national team stands together in a strong way," he says.
 
But that's tough. These days many of his players support the military rulers. Aboutreika, however, backs the Muslim Brotherhood. Occasionally, he and Bradley talk about political stories they've both read. Bradley has always encouraged debate and give-and-take on his teams, but he has never led in the midst of a political crisis.
 

 

[dirtynine]

http://espnfc.com/news/story/_/id/1572890/world-cup-seeds-based-october-world-ranking?cc=5901

 
Some big-name "2" seeds this time around: Netherlands, Portugal, England, France.  

 

[Seen The Light]

 
Some big-name "2" seeds this time around: Netherlands, Portugal, England, France.  

Does anyone know if a team has ever won the WC without being a "1" seed?

 

[dirtynine]

Fifa started going to strength-based seeding in the 70s (as opposed to the geographically-based pots they used earlier).  Since then, the only non-seeded team to win was (I believe) Argentina in 1986, who came out of pot 2.  Of course they had won the whole thing in '78, so it wasn't a huge surprise. 

 

[Mr. Wednesday]

From 1978 on, not only are Argentina the only non-seed to win, they're the only non-seed to even make the final.  There have been quite a few non-seeds who made it to the semifinals, but all but Argentina 1986 were knocked out at that stage.

 

[DJnVa]

Lots of games today.
 
Games to watch: http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/worldcupcentral/id/756?cc=5901
 
The England game against Montenegro is interesting. Without a win, they're in a tough spot.
 
Panama/Mexico has some extracurriculars:

Panama coach Julio Cesar Dely Valdes apologized Thursday for fueling this week's FIFA debate regarding foreign-born players and their eligibility.
 
Valdes said he was "sorry a million times" for asking whether Mexico would play its own national anthem or Argentina’s for Friday’s crucial 2014 World Cup qualifier vs. Panama at Mexico City's Estadio Azteca.
 

 

[DLew On Roids]

Romelo Lukaku just scored a spectacular goal from a run that began inside his own half to put Belgium up 2-0.  I'm pretty sure he stiff-armed a Croatian defender who was attempting a final challenge in the penalty area.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Does anyone know if a team has ever won the WC without being a "1" seed?

They may be big names, but their recent performance doesn't really live up to them. France has been mediocre since 2010, England never really belongs to the no 1 seeds and the same is true of Portugal. Perhaps the Netherlands deserve a no 1, but they didn't do well in their Euro group.

The most controversial no 1s are Belgium and Colombia OTOH; I don't think Uruguay is unfairly there. I do know that Belgium is an incredibly young talented team who's been playing great recently. I don't know anything about Colombia.

 

[BelgianSoxFan]

Romelo Lukaku just scored a spectacular goal from a run that began inside his own half to put Belgium up 2-0.  I'm pretty sure he stiff-armed a Croatian defender who was attempting a final challenge in the penalty area.

 
They are going to Brazil and will be a seed. An amazing turn-around for a team which looked terrible and hopeless 10 years ago. It would be an interesting case study to see how the Red Devils became a top-seeded team. The talent pipe line is not running dry either, Bakkali has chosen to play for them (10 years ago he would have played for Marrocco - though he was born in Belgium and live there until he moved to Holland) and Januzaj is another prospect, though England is supposedly trying to convince him to wait two years so he can play for them.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Super excited about the Red Devils next year and going forward.
Lukaku's goals today were just pure speed and power.

 

[Infield Infidel]

that second one, good god. He juked the keeper twice there. 

 

[DLew On Roids]

 
They are going to Brazil and will be a seed. An amazing turn-around for a team which looked terrible and hopeless 10 years ago. It would be an interesting case study to see how the Red Devils became a top-seeded team. The talent pipe line is not running dry either, Bakkali has chosen to play for them (10 years ago he would have played for Marrocco - though he was born in Belgium and live there until he moved to Holland) and Januzaj is another prospect, though England is supposedly trying to convince him to wait two years so he can play for them.

 
They should read the Home Nations Agreement more carefully, since that deal makes it so the five year rule doesn't apply to the four UK FAs.  He can't play for England.  I don't know how many Gazzans listen to Men In Blazers, but Michael Davies embarrassed himself talking about Januzaj for England om there this week and cited Ryan Giggs as another potential England international who got away.  Giggs wasn't eligible to play for England, either.
 
OTOH, my understanding is that Janusaj is turning down Belgium in the hopes of eventually playing for a new Kosovo team, and failing that he'd play for Albania.

 

[Joe D Reid]

FT Honduras 1-0 Costa Rica, meaning (a) Mexico must win tonight to have any chance at an automatic qualifying spot and (b) USA is looking good to win the group.

 

[BelgianSoxFan]

 
They should read the Home Nations Agreement more carefully, since that deal makes it so the five year rule doesn't apply to the four UK FAs.  He can't play for England.  I don't know how many Gazzans listen to Men In Blazers, but Michael Davies embarrassed himself talking about Januzaj for England om there this week and cited Ryan Giggs as another potential England international who got away.  Giggs wasn't eligible to play for England, either.
 
OTOH, my understanding is that Janusaj is turning down Belgium in the hopes of eventually playing for a new Kosovo team, and failing that he'd play for Albania.

 
I am just reading what the Belgian sport news is reporting, they were mentioning Gary Lineker tweets saying he could join England in 2015. He actually has not played for any youth national team either. I don't see Albania as that big of a competitor, unless he does not care about winning many games (and his connection is pretty weak with it, he was born in Belgium and his parents are Kosovar), but you never know.

 

[DLew On Roids]

 
I am just reading what the Belgian sport news is reporting, they were mentioning Gary Lineker tweets saying he could join England in 2015. He actually has not played for any youth national team either. I don't see Albania as that big of a competitor, unless he does not care about winning many games (and his connection is pretty weak with it, he was born in Belgium and his parents are Kosovar), but you never know.

 
Oh yeah, the broader UK media are all over the idea of Januzaj playing for England.  They just don't know the rules--the more intelligent UK soccer outlets are mocking them incessantly.
 
 
If I had to bet my life on it, I'd guess he goes for Belgium eventually, since he'd be in a better program.  I've heard conflicting reports of how strongly he wants to play for Kosovo or Albania.  I heard on the Guardian Football Weekly this week that he declined a Belgium call-up, but the Albanian manager was quoted last week saying he didn't think Januzaj would play for Albania.

 

[BoredViewer]

Mexico eeks out a win on a beautiful goal... still need a draw @ Costa Rica to seal the 4th place deal.  A loss and a Panama win vs. USA would likely still send Panama to the playoff.  Mexico can still auto-qualify, but they'll need a Honduras loss @ Jamaica and a +3 GD shift between their win and the Honduras loss.
 
I think I got all that right.

 

[Titans Bastard]

Mexico eeks out a win on a beautiful goal... still need a draw @ Costa Rica to seal the 4th place deal.  A loss and a Panama win vs. USA would likely still send Panama to the playoff.  Mexico can still auto-qualify, but they'll need a Honduras loss @ Jamaica and a +3 GD shift between their win and the Honduras loss.
 
I think I got all that right.

 
What a goal.  Outstanding.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPh2nPfUZXc

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Here's SI.com's "cheat sheet" for the final round of WC qualifiers today (AFC and playoffs excluded)

 

[DLew On Roids]

Cyprus v Albania is on ESPN3 right now.  It's apparently being played in front of dozens of the players' friends and family.  You can hear the managers yelling instructions from the touchlines.
 
Asamoah Gyan scores in the 5th minute to put the Black Stars up.  Ray Hudson has a goalgasm, screaming about Gyan's "Stradivarius of a right foot."

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Crap -- Ghana looks terrifying with a dream start.  Tough tough draw for Bradley's team.

 

[Infield Infidel]

Egypt got a goal via penalty, but Ghana answered with another 3-1

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

The away goal is important.  If Egypt can find a way to make it 3-2, they have a fighting chance in this tie, I think.  But Ghana is punishing them every time they try to go forward.  

 

[Nick Kaufman]

Cyprus v Albania is on ESPN3 right now.  It's apparently being played in front of dozens of the players' friends and family.  You can hear the managers yelling instructions from the touchlines.
 
Asamoah Gyan scores in the 5th minute to put the Black Stars up.  Ray Hudson has a goalgasm, screaming about Gyan's "Stradivarius of a right foot."

 
Thanks for this, there's a ton of games on actually.

 

[dirtynine]

4-1 now

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Bah.  It's officially an ass kicking now.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Robert Lewandowski is a one-man wrecking crew so far.  He's taken the ball off Gerrard to start a break, forced Carrick into a backpass to Hart, taken it from his own box to England's to get a shot on goal, and almost set up another chance.

 

[Zomp]

Oof.
 
Lewandowski should have bent that around Hart on his first touch.  England living dangerously.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Lots of chances both ways.  Great game so far.

 

[DLew On Roids]

UKRAINE IN ROOINS?

Lots of chances both ways.  Great game so far.

 
This really is true.  Poland has been letting them play.

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

English supporters must be going through it all right now.  One of those games where you need 3 points -- the clock seems to be going three times faster than usual when it's 0-0 and then when you get the breakthrough, it starts to slow a snail's pace.  Hard to imagine this one ending 1-0.  England need a second.
 
It's remarkable to me how much two relatively inexperienced senior club international players are putting their stamp on this game -- Townsend and Sturridge have been outstanding.  If Sturridge and Rooney can link up and learn to complement each other, this team suddenly looks a bit more dynamic than I was expecting 2014 England to look.

 

[teddykgb]

Sturridge has been tantalizing for a long, long time (it's hard to believe he's still so young).  I'm not entirely certain that he's able to put his mark on EVERY game, in the way a (punch me in the face) Rooney can.  But he's definitely one of those players where on his day he can be completely unplayable.

 

[Zomp]

Welbeck does everything right but scores goals.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Stevie G, fucking hell.

 

[teddykgb]

Reports on twitter that Bradley is out as Egypt's coach? There are tons of obvious jokes here but are they insane? He almost qualified them

 

[DLew On Roids]

Switzerland has snagged a seed.  Assuming Uruguay beats Jordan in the CONMEBOL/AFC playoff, it will get the final seed.  So our seeds are Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Italy, Colombia, Uruguay, Switzerland, and Spain.  
 
That means we can pretty much set up the pots.  UEFA will have eight non-seeds, so it's going to get its own pot.  CONCACAF/Oceania have four, CAF has five, CONMEBOL has three non-seeds, and AFC has four.  That groups CONCACAF/Oceania/AFC as one set of eight, and CAF/CONMEBOL as the other set.
 
Personally, I'm rooting for the USA to get grouped with Switzerland, Iceland, and Ethiopia.  Hey, it could happen.

 

[Nick Kaufman]

I don't think UEFA will get its own pot. I think the seeds will be determined by FIFA ranking.

 

[DLew On Roids]

Only one pot is seeded.  It keeps UEFA from getting three teams in a group.