Is Mac Jones the biggest bust in Patriots history?

Arroyoyo

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The misses when it comes to:

Easley
Harry
Michel

All hurt. But none were top-15.

Katzenmoyer was also later, but his shortened Patriots career was injury-related. Maroney didn’t play the most important position on the field and was also drafted later than Mac.

That must make Mac the worst draft pick in the history of the franchise, right? Or am I missing someone?
 

cshea

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It's besides the point but including Michel in this list is beyond dumb. The guy had 340 yards and 6 touchdowns in a super bowl playoff run. Sorry he didn't end up being Adrian Peterson.
 

Archer1979

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Nope, this guy will be hard to displace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Sims

#1 overall pick, 74 games and 17 sacks in his career.
Yeah. Calling Mac Jones the biggest bust is steeped in recency bias. He might be the biggest bust in the last twenty years because so much has been riding on him. But this franchise has a long and storied history of sucking prior to BB/TB's arrival.
 

Ferm Sheller

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It's Kenneth Sims, but put trading the Jerry Rice pick to move down to get Trevor Matich in consideration, too. (And maybe also Eugene Chung.)
 

TFisNEXT

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It's besides the point but including Michel in this list is beyond dumb. The guy had 340 yards and 6 touchdowns in a super bowl playoff run. Sorry he didn't end up being Adrian Peterson.
Yeah it’s hard to overstate how him chewing up the Chiefs on the road in the 2018 AFCCG was instrumental in keeping the Chiefs offense off the field for a good portion of the first 2.5 quarters of that game. We all saw what happened when the defense started getting exposed to too many KC possessions later in that game.

He was obviously terrific in the Chargers game and the Super Bowl as well. Can’t list him as a colossal bust just for those games alone.
 

nattysez

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It's Simms. But Hart Lee Dykes deserves a mention in this thread.
Beat me to it. For whatever reason, Hart Lee is the first guy I think of when I think of busts even though Kenneth Sims is the right answer.
 

Justthetippett

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Mac isn't even the biggest QB bust of the first round of his draft. I realize we are looking at this from a Pats standpoint, but I think that contextualizes things.

Long before my time, but isn't his Pats career comparable to Plunkett's (adjusted for era, etc.).?
 

Ferm Sheller

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Beat me to it. For whatever reason, Hart Lee is the first guy I think of when I think of busts even though Kenneth Sims is the right answer.
Hart Lee Dykes probably would have had an average/decent career if he hadn't gotten hurt.
 

EL Jeffe

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IDK, to me pick, picking Hart Lee Dykes is kind of like picking Robert Edwards. Dykes actually wasn't that bad before knee injuries ended his career 1.5 years into it. But he put up pretty decent numbers, even if he was inconsistent as all hell.

I'd argue Chris Singleton was the biggest bust, even bigger than Sims. Singleton was the 8th overall pick (not to mention they traded the rights to HoF'er Cortez Kennedy at #3 and a 2nd for #8 & #10--Singleton and Ray Agnew) and Singleton ended up having a very underwhelming 3 year career in NE. We know how Cortez Kennedy turned out.
 

mwonow

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Mac isn't even the biggest QB bust of the first round of his draft. I realize we are looking at this from a Pats standpoint, but I think that contextualizes things.

Long before my time, but isn't his Pats career comparable to Plunkett's (adjusted for era, etc.).?
Plunkett wasn't a bad QB. He played for a very bad team, in an era where body-slamming the QB was legal and common.

Plunkett had more talent and courage in his pinkies than Mac has in his whole body.

And yes, the right answer - by miles - is Ken Sims. He's Brady-level GOAT in this discussion.
 

Cellar-Door

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Honestly that you can have a conversation about whether Mac is the biggest bust of the Bill era is pretty telling of both how decent a drafter he was and how ridiculously few high picks we had.
 

nighthob

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It's Kenneth Sims, but put trading the Jerry Rice pick to move down to get Trevor Matich in consideration, too. (And maybe also Eugene Chung.)
I'd actually put the Rice for Matich trade in #1. Sims's job was to occupy OLineman so that Tippett could kill QBs, which he was OK at.
 

radsoxfan

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Mac Jones actually had 1 pretty good season at least. Some busts were terrible right out of the gate and never provided any value.

Looking back, his rookie year was confusingly solid. Very strange how quickly he became horrible and unplayable.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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Dis-honorable mention to Justin Rohrwasser.

And also the talented-but-troubled tight end who shall not be named.
 

jmcc5400

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Mac isn't even the biggest QB bust of the first round of his draft. I realize we are looking at this from a Pats standpoint, but I think that contextualizes things.

Long before my time, but isn't his Pats career comparable to Plunkett's (adjusted for era, etc.).?
Plunkett was still highly regarded enough to be traded by the Pats to the 49ers before the 1976 season for two first round picks in 1976 and a first and second in 1977. We wish Mac could bust like that.
 

dynomite

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IDK, to me pick, picking Hart Lee Dykes is kind of like picking Robert Edwards. Dykes actually wasn't that bad before knee injuries ended his career 1.5 years into it. But he put up pretty decent numbers, even if he was inconsistent as all hell.

I'd argue Chris Singleton was the biggest bust, even bigger than Sims. Singleton was the 8th overall pick (not to mention they traded the rights to HoF'er Cortez Kennedy at #3 and a 2nd for #8 & #10--Singleton and Ray Agnew) and Singleton ended up having a very underwhelming 3 year career in NE. We know how Cortez Kennedy turned out.
Completely agreed on Dykes -- ~800 yards and 5 TDs as a rookie would be good in 2023, let alone in the NFL of 1989 (it was the 28th most yards by a WR that year, and more than NKeal Harry's entire career thus far). It was also more impressive than the overall stats indicate -- Dykes barely played in the first 5 weeks, and in the final month of the season caught fire. He had 100+ yards and 6+ catches in 3 of the final 4 games that season.

Anyway, there's so many good answers for this. And is the "biggest bust" in terms of that player's career performance, or the opportunity cost of drafting them instead of someone else?

I think Sims in '82 is the right answer -- the #1 pick in the Draft is simply so much more valuable than any subsequent pick, and that Top 10 was solid: Chip Banks, Jim McMahon, Mike Munchak, Gerald Riggs, Marcus Allen. Even Jeff Bryant at 6th overall had a decade-long run with the Seahawks as a pass rushing D Lineman. Still, Sims did have an 8-season career in the NFL.

On the other hand, trading out of the Jerry Rice spot meant missing out on the player ranked as the #1 in the history of the NFL by the NFL Network in 2010. So, that's a tough one to overcome.

Finally, I do think N'Keal Harry deserves an honorable mention. Obviously it doesn't rank against drafting the wrong guy #1 overall. Clearly the last pick of the 1st round was far less likely to hit, but the combination of Harry basically washing out of the NFL after a few seasons with the next two WRs picked after him turning out to be Deebo and AJ Brown is notable.
 
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Ferm Sheller

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I'd actually put the Rice for Matich trade in #1. Sims's job was to occupy OLineman so that Tippett could kill QBs, which he was OK at.
I wonder whether Jerry Rice would have become Jerry Rice! if he'd been drafted by the Pats. Catching passes from Eason and Grogan is a far cry from Montana/Young.
 

Hoya81

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Fryar wasn’t necessarily a bust, but might have been a HoF with an earlier change of scenery, like Cris Carter.
 

lexrageorge

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On the other hand, trading out of the Jerry Rice spot meant missing out on the player ranked as the #1 in the history of the NFL by the NFL Network in 2010. So, that's a tough one to overcome.
Trading away the chance to draft Jerry Rice was an all time blunder by an organization known for its blunders at the time. It's definitely one of the worst moves in the team's history. But implication of the term bust is a player drafted high that did nothing. Hence...

Finally, it's do think N'Keal Harry deserves an honorable mention. Obviously it doesn't rank against drafting the wrong guy #1 overall. Clearly the last pick of the 1st round was far less likely to hit, but the combination of Harry basically washing out of the NFL after a few seasons with the next two WRs picked after him turning out to be Deebo and AJ Brown is notable.
Agree. Contextually, Harry busting out resulting in a number of dominoes falling as a result, and the team has yet to recover from that.
 

moondog80

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Sims was a solid player, and it's not like that draft was dripping with talent. The best guy in the draft actually went to the Pats (Andre Tippet, 2nd round). I'd say N'Keal Harry and Eugene Chung were worse, even accounting for draft position.

Also worth mentioning trading the 1st pick (Russell Maryland) in 1991 to Dallas for picks 11 (Pat Harlow, a decent OT), 41 (somebody named Jerome Henderson), and a trio of forgettable players.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Is he the biggest bust named Jones?

Tebucky Jones: pick #22, 5 seasons/36 starts, four INTs, made Robert Kraft and his stopwatch look silly.