Is There Any Reason for Taz to Pitch Again This Season?

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

When he's right, Taz is a first-rate reliever.  But why wear him out at this point in this lost season?  Doesn't it make more sense to get him rested with an eye toward next season?  It seems possible he's already worn down this year (after throwing more than 60 innings each of the last 2 years).  He made more than 70 appearances in 2013 and 14, and is at 53 this year (on pace for about 70 again).  Only 4 relievers made more than 70 appearances in 3 straight years from 2012-14. 
 
Taz was great in April and May this year but has been very hittable for most of July and August.  What is gained from throwing him out there regularly at this point--why not shut him down?   I'd like to see a dominant Taz next year, and I can't see why it would make sense to keep throwing out there in 2015.  Get the man some rest.
 
 

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

When he's right, Taz is a first-rate reliever.  But why wear him out at this point in this lost season?  Doesn't it make more sense to get him rested with an eye toward next season?  It seems possible he's already worn down this year (after throwing more than 60 innings each of the last 2 years).  He made more than 70 appearances in 2013 and 14, and is at 53 this year (on pace for about 70 again).  Only 4 relievers made more than 70 appearances in 3 straight years from 2012-14. 
 
Taz was great in April and May this year but has been very hittable for most of July and August.  What is gained from throwing him out there regularly at this point--why not shut him down?   I'd like to see a dominant Taz next year, and I can't see why it would make sense to keep throwing out there in 2015.  Get the man some rest.

While not disputing that he needs a couple of weeks off you can't just "shut him down" if he's not hurt. Besides, he may view this Koji-less bullpen as an opportunity to demonstrate his Closer Credentials. It's a shame he's pitching so poorly right now. The media will paint it as as yet another demonstration of the Specialness of Closers - while ignoring the past two months of sucking in the setup role.

 

[threecy]

I went to check his fastball velocity, but it doesn't seem to be dropping much at this juncture (overall his range appears to be done maybe 1 MPH over 2014):
 
http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=4079&position=P&pitch=FA

 

[Sampo Gida]

Baseball is entertainment.  Fans have made advance purchases to see a good game.   You can't just sit the performers in a play because the producers have decided this is the final season so the actors who have been well paid for the entire season can rest up for their next gig.  Think of the fans.
 
Obviously, if Tazawa is suffering some physical issues, you rest him, or at least reduce his pitching usage, and if its serious enough shut him down.  But just not playing your best players because you are out of a pennant race and you are looking ahead to next year is just wrong, and not really fair to those teams still in a pennant race who don't get a chance to play you.  If he is healthy, and still your best option to close the game or pitch the 8th, you go with him.

 

[8slim]

He gets paid to pitch.

I imagine he wants to pitch.

 

[Plympton91]

I agree you can't shut him soon unless he's actually fatigued or hurt. I am also one of those Neanderthals who believes it's harder to pitch the 9th inning than the 8th. I'll take solace in the fact that nearly everyone who has actually played the game holds that opinion and endure the arrows from the spreadsheet brigade's analysis of endogenous variables in selected samples.

In addition, I've always said Tazawa is not the type of pitcher you want to throw out there without a safety net. He needs to be the third best reliever on a serious contender, not the relief ace or closer.

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

In addition, I've always said Tazawa is not the type of pitcher you want to throw out there without a safety net. He needs to be the third best reliever on a serious contender, not the relief ace or closer.

Well, he was successful as the second best reliever on a WS winning team just two years ago.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Baseball is entertainment.  Fans have made advance purchases to see a good game.   You can't just sit the performers in a play because the producers have decided this is the final season so the actors who have been well paid for the entire season can rest up for their next gig.  Think of the fans.
 
Obviously, if Tazawa is suffering some physical issues, you rest him, or at least reduce his pitching usage, and if its serious enough shut him down.  But just not playing your best players because you are out of a pennant race and you are looking ahead to next year is just wrong, and not really fair to those teams still in a pennant race who don't get a chance to play you.  If he is healthy, and still your best option to close the game or pitch the 8th, you go with him.

I'd be more on board with this if he was pitching well, but he's not.  I don't think he's one of their best players right now, and I don't think he's their best option late in the games right now.  I'd go with Ross first.
 
But I'd certainly feel better if his usage was simply reduced.  That would be better than overworking him down the stretch.
 
Hopefully he is not hurt and this is simply a really bad stretch.  But something is off.  His 2nd half ERA is 6.97 and he keeps blowing save chances--today, against the Marlins (when he had absolutely no 2ndary stuff), against the Tigers when Martinez homered off him.  He is still throwing hard and he did have a good split finger the other day against Cleveland, but something doesn't add up.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

I agree you can't shut him soon unless he's actually fatigued or hurt. I am also one of those Neanderthals who believes it's harder to pitch the 9th inning than the 8th. I'll take solace in the fact that nearly everyone who has actually played the game holds that opinion and endure the arrows from the spreadsheet brigade's analysis of endogenous variables in selected samples.

In addition, I've always said Tazawa is not the type of pitcher you want to throw out there without a safety net. He needs to be the third best reliever on a serious contender, not the relief ace or closer.

his problems started well before he became the closer.

 

[Plympton91]

his problems started well before he became the closer.

Agree completely. He's been in the relief ace role all season though.

As for the 2013 postseason, he was great and so was Workman. Plus even Calvin Schiraldi looked great for almost an entire postseason.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

His first two saves were 1-2-3 jobs, so it's not like the pressure magically got to him. He had a similar total blow up against Toronto earlier in the year.

I mean, he gave up 3 runs in July.

It looks to me like his splitter just isn't splitting this month and he's leaving balls up, in general. I think it's mechanical more than anything else. Is Koji still with the team? They need a splitter pow-wow.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Baseball is entertainment.  Fans have made advance purchases to see a good game.   You can't just sit the performers in a play because the producers have decided this is the final season so the actors who have been well paid for the entire season can rest up for their next gig.  Think of the fans.

You've never seen late September ball in 15 or so cities?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

His first two saves were 1-2-3 jobs, so it's not like the pressure magically got to him. He had a similar total blow up against Toronto earlier in the year.

I mean, he gave up 3 runs in July.

It looks to me like his splitter just isn't splitting this month and he's leaving balls up, in general. I think it's mechanical more than anything else. Is Koji still with the team? They need a splitter pow-wow.

Yup, Koji was watching from the dugout yesterday.

 

[CoRP]

You've never seen late September ball in 15 or so cities?

To be fair, it's still August.

 

[Plympton91]

"Certainly, there is a different kind of nervousness involved." -- Tazawa through a translator, according to a paper copy of the Al-P story I'm reading this morning.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Over the Monster has a piece  up on this very issue

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

No. Proctor Tazawa is pretty clearly broken now, even if he wasn't before.

 

[Pilgrim]

The closer vs. setup man issues are a barnacle on the titanic.  He is messed up right now and there is no reason to pitch him.

 

[chrisfont9]

We have a young team out there competing (finally). Having a bullpen there to nail down some wins, like tonight, probably enhances the experience the team is having right now. As much as we all want them to get a high draft pick, what's happening at this stage is probably healthier.

 

[LogansDad]

Wait?  That was what you call "nailing down a win"?  
 
I don't even know what to say about that.

 

[Sampo Gida]

I'd be more on board with this if he was pitching well, but he's not.  I don't think he's one of their best players right now, and I don't think he's their best option late in the games right now.  I'd go with Ross first.
 
But I'd certainly feel better if his usage was simply reduced.  That would be better than overworking him down the stretch.
 
Hopefully he is not hurt and this is simply a really bad stretch.  But something is off.  His 2nd half ERA is 6.97 and he keeps blowing save chances--today, against the Marlins (when he had absolutely no 2ndary stuff), against the Tigers when Martinez homered off him.  He is still throwing hard and he did have a good split finger the other day against Cleveland, but something doesn't add up.

 
I think I qualified what I said with " if he is healthy".  After tonights performance, and frankly, based on his work for the last month, I don't think he is. If there is a physical issue, he should be shut down, pronto.  So in that sense, I guess we agree.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

We have a young team out there competing (finally). Having a bullpen there to nail down some wins, like tonight, probably enhances the experience the team is having right now. As much as we all want them to get a high draft pick, what's happening at this stage is probably healthier.

 
That's all well and good, but first off, as LogansDad said, that was hardly "nailing down a win." Secondly, I'll go on a limb and speak for everybody by saying I think we'd all rather have a bullpen there to nail down wins for the young and competitive squad next season than this one, a big part of which means keeping Taz in one piece. Losing Koji sucked, but Tazawa is arguably just as important a piece to next year's pen and he clearly isn't right. Whether it's an injury, a mechanical issue, or something mental that's holding him back none of us know, but something's up and I'd rather the team try and figure out what now than keep throwing him into the fire.

 

[chrisfont9]

Wait?  That was what you call "nailing down a win"?  
 
I don't even know what to say about that.

The question was why would the team have him out there. I don't think anyone handed Lovullo Taz's future stat line before he brought him into a game. Nice try though.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

The question was why would the team have him out there. I don't think anyone handed Lovullo Taz's future stat line before he brought him into a game. Nice try though.

 
I sincerely believe our manager is well aware of Taz's recent performances, but hey, maybe I'm unrealistic.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

if Taz isn't DL'd/shelved at this point, then I don't know what to say.  why take any chances?  and why was he left out there on the mound last night after his back gave him some trouble? (edit: report is he had a stiff back.  if there was any doubt about his back, then he should have been taken out (edit: and a "stiff back" sounds like clear reason to get him out).  perhaps I'm missing something, but this is really hard to figure out

 

[WenZink]

Only reason I can think of is that he's up for arbitration this winter.  Good luck with that.

 

[Al Zarilla]

if Taz isn't DL'd/shelved at this point, then I don't know what to say.  why take any chances?  and why was he left out there on the mound last night after his back gave him some trouble?  if there was any doubt about his back, then he should have been taken out.  perhaps I'm missing something, but this is really hard to figure out

NESN reported after the game that Taz said, through his interpreter, that he hurt his back on the double play on which X saved the game. Lovullo still asked him to throw two pitches, a fastball and a breaking ball, and he "threw them OK." So Lovullo decided he was good to go. I have to think Farrell, or most managers would have pulled him anyway. I don't know if Lovullo has ever been invited as a candidate when there's a manager opening in MLB, but he's not off to a great start with Boston so far. That's based on my very limited viewing though.
 
Googled and Lovullo was invited to talk with the Rangers and Twins in the past, at least.

 

[InsideTheParker]

Only reason I can think of is that he's up for arbitration this winter.  Good luck with that.

I happened to catch a bit of the post-game, and they said that there was only one pitcher left, Breslow, and that Lovullo didn't want to go down to zero pitchers in an extra-inning game. Of course he messed up everything, as was obvious to everyone but him, when he used Ross for exactly one out earlier in the game.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Taz was obviously uncomfortable after that play, constantly trying to stretch out. Lovullo made exactly one correct pitching change last night, and that was removing Owen when he did. Was very frustrating watching him manage that game.

 

[Plympton91]

So who's the closer with Tazawa clearly not the answer? Does Health Hembree get his moment to step up? He was great for Pawtucket and hasn't shat himself recently. Maybe see what you've got there over the final 30 whatever games?

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

So who's the closer with Tazawa clearly not the answer? Does Health Hembree get his moment to step up? He was great for Pawtucket and hasn't shat himself recently. Maybe see what you've got there over the final 30 whatever games?

Sure, why not? Or even better, closer by committee.

The real answer is, that it doesn't truly matter at this point in the season who 'closes' and who doesn't. The important thing now is to see whether any of the AAA guys can get MLB hitters out, regardless of the game situation.

Especially after twisting his back, Tazawa needs to be DL'd rather than demoted. So there should be ample chance for everyone else to pitch.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Sure, why not? Or even better, closer by committee.

The real answer is, that it doesn't truly matter at this point in the season who 'closes' and who doesn't. The important thing now is to see whether any of the AAA guys can get MLB hitters out, regardless of the game situation.

Especially after twisting his back, Tazawa needs to be DL'd rather than demoted. So there should be ample chance for everyone else to pitch.

That's what I'm afraid of. No, you're right, see who's got what. Just came to mind, I wonder how much pressure is coming down from Henry, etc., to try get the hell out of the cellar so it's not 2 in a row and 3 of 4. Or, is it a 'we made our bed, now we sleep in it' (until next year). Sound like a thread?

 

[Toe Nash]

So who's the closer with Tazawa clearly not the answer? Does Health Hembree get his moment to step up? He was great for Pawtucket and hasn't shat himself recently. Maybe see what you've got there over the final 30 whatever games?

No one took your bait earlier in the thread, but if you think the 9th inning is much harder than the 8th, then wouldn't it follow that closing in 30 meaningless games for a team 10 games under .500 doesn't tell you anything about whether a pitcher can close when it really counts? Are all 9th innings created equal?

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

Sure, why not? Or even better, closer by committee.

The real answer is, that it doesn't truly matter at this point in the season who 'closes' and who doesn't. The important thing now is to see whether any of the AAA guys can get MLB hitters out, regardless of the game situation.

Especially after twisting his back, Tazawa needs to be DL'd rather than demoted. So there should be ample chance for everyone else to pitch.

agreed--if they really need a designated "closer", Hembree could get a shot--or closer by cmte would be fine (I also agree, that's likely an even better option).  Not all "save" situations are created equal.  Even  Breslow should be fine to close out 3 run leads (like the one last night).  and even if he's not, who really cares at this point in the season?  

 

[richgedman'sghost]

The only reason Taz might not be DLed is that rosters expand on Tuesday anyway so the roster space is not really needed. The one advantage of putting Taz on the DL would be to save Torey from himself and prevent him from using Taz. On a related point what is the SOSH consensus on Jean Machi? Lars the Wanderer, Al Zsrilla what are your opinions from his Giant days? Does he stand a chance as our closer?

 

[Al Zarilla]

The only reason Taz might not be DLed is that rosters expand on Tuesday anyway so the roster space is not really needed. The one advantage of putting Taz on the DL would be to save Torey from himself and prevent him from using Taz. On a related point what is the SOSH consensus on Jean Machi? Lars the Wanderer, Al Zsrilla what are your opinions from his Giant days? Does he stand a chance as our closer?

His splitter, maybe also his slider were really good, could say filthy, '012 to '014 for the Giants. He seemed to lose the ability to keep his pitches down this year for the Giants and wasn't effective, got released. Simple conclusion that I can offer from what I've seen so far with the Sox is keep pitches down, succeed. He may be the best closer bet of the lot that's left. 
 
So, today, Brooks Baseball said he used just 4 seam fastballs and changeups, so WDIK?

 

[canderson]

Well this answers who the closer is, Taz gets demoted.

@IanMBrowne: Junichi Tazawa out of closer's role. Machi to get the ninth. #RedSox

 

[Al Zarilla]

Well this answers who the closer is, Taz gets demoted.

@IanMBrowne: Junichi Tazawa out of closer's role. Machi to get the ninth. #RedSox

Ha, Lovullo reads SOSH.

 

[Rasputin]

I'm hoping the only reason he isn't on the DL is the impending roster expansion.

 

[grimshaw]

I'm hoping the only reason he isn't on the DL is the impending roster expansion.

He was warming in the 9th today.  Lovullo wants to kill him apparently.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

He was warming in the 9th today.  Lovullo wants to kill him apparently.

hope Taz's back is ok.  I do not understand why he can't get at least a week off.

 

[semsox]

No.

 

[Pumpsie]

Absolutely not.

With 84 pitchers in the pen, Lovullo (channeling Farrell) decides to use Taz again tonight in a winnable one-run game.  The predictable ensues.

 

[bankshot1]

Scott Proctored

 

[Harry Hooper]

Who is his agent? Surprised we haven't heard anything.

 

[benhogan]

Ha, Lovullo reads SOSH.

wish he did. would have shut him down weeks ago

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I don't disagree with the conclusion, but he did just come off of 3 pretty good outings:  3 IP, 4H 5K

 

[Max Power]

I can see allowing him to pitch after he was removed from the closer's role to prove that he failed because he's cooked for the season, not because he lacked magical closer dust. Remy was saying on the broadcasts that "Tazawa can't close." He certainly could if he were pitching like he was for his whole career up until midseason. But at this point he can't be trusted to get outs at any point in the game.

 

[Stan Papi Was Framed]

I can see allowing him to pitch after he was removed from the closer's role to prove that he failed because he's cooked for the season, not because he lacked magical closer dust. Remy was saying on the broadcasts that "Tazawa can't close." He certainly could if he were pitching like he was for his whole career up until midseason. But at this point he can't be trusted to get outs at any point in the game.

yeah, seems that way...hopefully just a bad stretch/fatigue.

 

[Darnell's Son]

Ian took a look at Taz's struggles to see what the data says:

 
 
Instead of tending to place fastballs on the upper-outside corner to RHB, in the second half he has thrown many more fastballs down the heart of the plate. For Tazawa, fastball placement lower in the zone may be doubly bad, because he relies on the separation between his forkball, at the bottom of and below the zone, and his fastball. If he is now throwing fastballs with less separation from his forkball (and, perhaps, if his forkball is breaking slightly less than usual), batters may be able to tee off on him.