Jaguars fire Urban Meyer

[Mystic Merlin]

Urban continues his campaign of winning hearts and minds! I mean, he’s basically Jon Voight from ‘Varsity Blues’, minus any success with the team.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/11/report-urban-meyer-had-heated-argument-with-marvin-jones-called-his-assistant-coaches-losers/

‘ According to Tom Pelissero of NFL Network, Meyer has been involved in ugly incidents at the team facility within the last two weeks.

One incident involved a heated argument between Meyer and veteran receiver Marvin Jones, who was so angry with Meyer that he left the team facility and had to be convinced to return by other staff members.

Another incident featured a staff meeting that had Meyer ripping into his assistant coaches, calling them losers and asking them to explain what they’ve ever won.’

 

[E5 Yaz]

Urban continues his campaign of winning hearts and minds! I mean, he’s basically Jon Voight from ‘Varsity Blues’, minus any success with the team.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/12/11/report-urban-meyer-had-heated-argument-with-marvin-jones-called-his-assistant-coaches-losers/

‘ According to Tom Pelissero of NFL Network, Meyer has been involved in ugly incidents at the team facility within the last two weeks.

One incident involved a heated argument between Meyer and veteran receiver Marvin Jones, who was so angry with Meyer that he left the team facility and had to be convinced to return by other staff members.

Another incident featured a staff meeting that had Meyer ripping into his assistant coaches, calling them losers and asking them to explain what they’ve ever won.’

"I could haver had the Notre Dame job! I could have had the USC job! ... But noooooooo, I'm stuck here with you losers."

One and done?

 

[MuzzyField]

Urban asked for the moon and Shad gave it to him in truckloads of money and vastly expanded coaching and support staffs.

I truly believe Urban's plan is/was to delegate, cash checks, ride the Trevor Train, and enjoy not having to recruit anymore.

Solid plan for a solid franchise.

 

[cornwalls@6]

"I could haver had the Notre Dame job! I could have had the USC job! ... But noooooooo, I'm stuck here with you losers."

One and done?

Yes. It’s going to cost them a shit load of money, but they have to show him the door. Simply can’t let Lawrence’s development be further derailed by this clown show. Urbie found out you actually have to coach it up in the NFL. Out of his depth, and a complete mismatch.

 

[Average Reds]

The collapse of Urban Meyer’s reputation is one of the more uplifting events of 2021.

Edit: to put a bit more content to this ….

It has always grinded my gears that this guy was believed to be some sort of savant when all along he was a shameless grifter of a college coach who would always leave town right before shit was about to hit the fan. Then he finally gets an NFL gig and there’s no place for him to hide from accountability.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Here's the Pelssero story mentioned above, which adds details to the PFT rewrite

https://www.nfl.com/news/tension-boiling-over-between-coach-urban-meyer-jaguars-players-staff

 

[Marciano490]

The collapse of Urban Meyer’s reputation is one of the more uplifting events of 2021.

Edit: to put a bit more content to this ….

It has always grinded my gears that this guy was believed to be some sort of savant when all along he was a shameless grifter of a college coach who would always leave town right before shit was about to hit the fan. Then he finally gets an NFL gig and there’s no place for him to hide from accountability.

He did put together winning programs in Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook.

Being a good team owner seems pretty simple if you check your ego, like Kraft learned. It’s pretty odd to see a guy brilliant and diligent enough to go from $1/hour dishwasher to billionaire be so bad and so cowed by a 5 cent charlatan like Meyer.

 

[DJnVa]

Here's the Pelssero story mentioned above, which adds details to the PFT rewrite

https://www.nfl.com/news/tension-boiling-over-between-coach-urban-meyer-jaguars-players-staff

And yet...

At this point, there are no signs that Jaguars owner Shad Khan is seriously considering a change.

 

[koufax32]

He did put together winning programs in Brockway, Ogdenville and North Haverbrook.

Being a good team owner seems pretty simple if you check your ego, like Kraft learned. It’s pretty odd to see a guy brilliant and diligent enough to go from $1/hour dishwasher to billionaire be so bad and so cowed by a 5 cent charlatan like Meyer.

This is what has flummoxed Jaguars fans and anybody who pays attention to them. This is not someone who inherited daddy’s money and is only wealthy because owning an NFL team makes it impossible to fail. Khan is a a self made man who started from basically nothing. He’s obviously smart and shrewd to have gotten here and even his purchase of the team is evidence of that. But he has been absolutely masterful at consistently making bad hiring/personnel decisions. Are there any other franchise owners like this?

 

[MuzzyField]

Bill Polian was the advisor/consultant Kahn relied on for his initial football decisions after buying the team.

Among the "help" Bill provided was recommending Kahn hire Dave Caldwell as GM from Atlanta's front office. Caldwell had previously spent nine years in the Colts front office under Polian and actually played with one of his sons in college.

Caldwell's considerable experience in college scouting and talent evaluation proved useless in his blowing of endless top of the draft capital during his 7+ years of roster building.

 

[E5 Yaz]

And yet...

What good would it do to leak any thought process now? The Jags have not been a particularly well-run franchise, save the early Coughlin years. Failing this badly with a supposed dream hire isn't something they need to admit this late in the season.

Besides, the leaked stuff from inside the locker room is doing the heavy lifting for ownership

 

[MuzzyField]

What good would it do to leak any thought process now? The Jags have not been a particularly well-run franchise, save the early Coughlin years. Failing this badly with a supposed dream hire isn't something they need to admit this late in the season.

Besides, the leaked stuff from inside the locker room is doing the heavy lifting for ownership

I believe you have bingo.

These leaks aren't by accident particularly when it's NFL media doing the "breaking" on the story.

The vast majority of the local Jacksonville media is puckered up and kissing team ass and has been since it arrived.

 

[DJnVa]

What good would it do to leak any thought process now?

What bad would it do?

I mean, we hear stories all the time of that say things like "It is known the head coach is on thin ice." Of all the times that might give the team a boost, this would be one of them.

 

[koufax32]

I believe you have bingo.

These leaks aren't by accident particularly when it's NFL media doing the "breaking" on the story.

The vast majority of the local Jacksonville media is puckered up and kissing team ass and has been since it arrived.

Meyer being the exception to that as he’s pretty universally loathed and despised by local media there. Or at least I assume that’s still the case.

 

[MuzzyField]

Meyer being the exception to that as he’s pretty universally loathed and despised by local media there. Or at least I assume that’s still the case.

There is certainly some residual loathing from those in the media with Gator lineage, but they haven’t been the source of much heat until recently and its been more of a pro Trevor move. There is concern Urban is creating giant problem for his development. Urban‘s treatment of James Robinson is also providing fuel.

Urban splitting first team reps between Trevor and Minshew from the start of the offseason and through camp until they traded him so there could be a competition was a great foreshadow to the ensuing shit storm.

Urban showed up at an early season Gators game, but he took his bow at the same time as Spurrier. If it was just Urban I believe the greeting would have been quite mixed. Improving his standing in Gainesville and getting in the Gators ring of honor is certainly one of his goals. I’m not sure he’s making any progress on that front.

What a soap opera season!

 

[Cellar-Door]

I like the bit about Marvin Jones. Guy has a rep as a consummate pro, he played in Detroit for like 6 years, under Patricia, whose lockerroom hated him and still had no issues. Half a season with Urban and he's getting into fights with his coach.

 

[E5 Yaz]

The most ominous thing about the entire Jags story is Lawrence openly questioning Meyer's decisions regarding which RB to play. Pissing off the franchise QB this quickly doesn't seem like a good thing to do.

 

[nattysez]

FWIW, Wickersham's book claims that BB recommended Doug Marrone to Khan.

 

[luckiestman]

FWIW, Wickersham's book claims that BB recommended Doug Marrone to Khan.

And he had the lead in the AFC championship game with Blake fucking Bortles

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Urban splitting first team reps between Trevor Minshew from the start of the offseason and through camp until they traded him so there could be a competition was a great foreshadow to the ensuing shit storm.

Trevor?

 

[MuzzyField]

FWIW, Wickersham's book claims that BB recommended Doug Marrone to Khan.

To be head coach? Wasn’t he already on Gus Bradley’s staff and got the interim gig when Gus was fired?

 

[MuzzyField]

Trevor?

And Minshew.

 

[Conigliaro's Potential]

Ah.

 

[BaseballJones]

And he had the lead in the AFC championship game with Blake fucking Bortles

And it took some brilliant plays by the Pats' best players - Brady and Gilmore - for the Pats to win.

 

[AlNipper49]

The most ominous thing about the entire Jags story is Lawrence openly questioning Meyer's decisions regarding which RB to play. Pissing off the franchise QB this quickly doesn't seem like a good thing to do.

To make it worse, Meyer then pointed a finger at his RB coach and acted surprised.

You’re the head coach dude. If RB1 isn’t on the field at a time you suspected that he would be, right or wrong, wouldn’t that have warranted a simple question to a dude who works for you why things were they way that they were?

 

[Van Everyman]

And it took some brilliant plays by the Pats' best players - Brady and Gilmore - for the Pats to win.

Plus #MylesJackWasDown

Marrone was really good in Buffalo. I can see why BB would recommend him.

 

[B H Kim]

This is what has flummoxed Jaguars fans and anybody who pays attention to them. This is not someone who inherited daddy’s money and is only wealthy because owning an NFL team makes it impossible to fail. Khan is a a self made man who started from basically nothing. He’s obviously smart and shrewd to have gotten here and even his purchase of the team is evidence of that. But he has been absolutely masterful at consistently making bad hiring/personnel decisions. Are there any other franchise owners like this?

Sounds exactly like Dan Snyder.

 

[E5 Yaz]

To make it worse, Meyer then pointed a finger at his RB coach and acted surprised.

You’re the head coach dude. If RB1 isn’t on the field at a time you suspected that he would be, right or wrong, wouldn’t that have warranted a simple question to a dude who works for you why things were they way that they were?

A clear example of not reading the room on Meyer's part. He no doubt got away with such crap with a college team and coaching staff, because no one dare challenge his authority. But everyone's a pro now, everyone gets asked questions by the media and/or knows ways to get details into public.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Well, this will make everyone with the Jaguars feel better:

"What's the answer [when things are going badly]? Start leaking information or some nonsense?" Meyer said after the Jaguars' 20-0 loss at Tennessee on Sunday, the fourth shutout defeat in franchise history and the first since a Week 5 loss to Seattle in 2009. "No. No, that's nonsense. That's garbage. I've been very blessed. I've not really dealt with that. I've not dealt with, 'Well, did you hear what he said?' What? No. Let's improve on offense and get our quarterback in a position to be successful. That's our focus.
"What someone's brother said, or someone said someone said, that will occupy very little of my time. And if there is a source, that source is unemployed. I mean, within seconds, if there's some source that's doing that."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32855042/urban-meyer-denies-jacksonville-jaguars-reports-there-source-source-unemployed

Urban's going full Queeg. I have no dog in this fight, but it's hard not to watch this happen.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Well, this will make everyone with the Jaguars feel better:

"What's the answer [when things are going badly]? Start leaking information or some nonsense?" Meyer said after the Jaguars' 20-0 loss at Tennessee on Sunday, the fourth shutout defeat in franchise history and the first since a Week 5 loss to Seattle in 2009. "No. No, that's nonsense. That's garbage. I've been very blessed. I've not really dealt with that. I've not dealt with, 'Well, did you hear what he said?' What? No. Let's improve on offense and get our quarterback in a position to be successful. That's our focus.
"What someone's brother said, or someone said someone said, that will occupy very little of my time. And if there is a source, that source is unemployed. I mean, within seconds, if there's some source that's doing that."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32855042/urban-meyer-denies-jacksonville-jaguars-reports-there-source-source-unemployed

Urban's going full Queeg. I have no dog in this fight, but it's hard not to watch this happen.

I didn’t think this arrangement would work out but it’s falling apart even worse than I could have imagined.

 

[E5 Yaz]

He just can't resist making things worse

View: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/1470140626729582600

 

[BigSoxFan]

He just can't resist making things worse

View: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/1470140626729582600

I mean, his QB talked all week about the need to get James Robinson more touches. He got 6.

 

[Van Everyman]

He just can't resist making things worse

View: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/1470140626729582600

Per @Marciano490's post earlier, Khan seems like a good guy -- or at least a better guy than the inheritor and/or criminal doofuses that make up 90% of NFL owners. But when are these owners ever going to learn that lauded college coaches who have enormous sycophantic staffs and decades of being the highest paid public employee in their states--and whose main skill appears to be using their power and influence (and resources) to bribe players to come to their teams--just do not translate into the structure or culture of salary capped NFL teams?

 

[joe dokes]

Per @Marciano490's post earlier, Khan seems like a good guy -- or at least a better guy than the inheritor and/or criminal doofuses that make up 90% of NFL owners. But when are these owners ever going to learn that lauded college coaches who have enormous sycophantic staffs and decades of being the highest paid public employee in their states--and whose main skill appears to be using their power and influence (and resources) to bribe players to come to their teams--just do not translate into the structure or culture of salary capped NFL teams?

It's a trite and overly militaristic phrase, but NFL coaches do have to be "leaders of men" to get buy-in, etc. Meyer (like many successful college coaches) was good at controlling kids (on the field) and yelling at adults. Unfortunately for him, just in the short time he's been away from the NCAA, the ability to control players has been curtailed somewhat.
I know he has his warts, but I think Pete Carroll is the rare exception.

 

[johnmd20]

I mean, his QB talked all week about the need to get James Robinson more touches. He got 6.

To be fair, 6 rushes for 4 yards.

But the point remains, if you do one thing and one thing only in this game, it's force feed Robinson if the franchise QB wants it. Because you suck anyway. But Urban has an addiction to making things worse because I think he wants to get fired.

 

[snowmanny]

It's a trite and overly militaristic phrase, but NFL coaches do have to be "leaders of men" to get buy-in, etc. Meyers (like many successful college coaches) was good at controlling kids (on the field) and yelling at adults. Unfortunately for him, just in the short time he's been away from the NCAA, the ability to control players has been curtailed somewhat.
I know he has his warts, but I think Pete Carroll is the rare exception.

But Carroll had ten years as an NFL assistant before he had his first NFL HC and by the time he went to USC he had been in the NFL 16 years. So he wasn't like Spurrier (who did have a whiff of USFL at least) or Meyer.

People say Fairbanks was actually very good.

 

[Kliq]

The Jags just haven't been able to get the executive portion of the franchise correct; from bringing in Coughlin, who bombed, to now the Urban Meyer debacle that just seems to be getting worse each week, they are really putting everything at risk the longer this nonsense goes on.

I think they legitimately had a gameplan at the start of last season; to tank and land the generational QB talent with the #1 overall pick. Which they successfully did; but by reaching for Meyer they risk undoing that strategy because he's turned out to be such a bonehead. And it might turn out that Lawrence isn't the good, but it's hard to fault Jax if that ends up being the case because every team would have taken him #1.

The Jags have a really unusual recent history. In 2017 they go 10-6 and making a spirited run to the AFC Championship Game. Blake Bortles was wrapping up a three year stretch where he had averaged 4,000 yards, 26 TDs and 16 INTs per season; not great numbers, but not a punchline either. They had the #1 ranked rushing offense, and #2 overall defense. What happened?

What happened? Bortles turned into a pumpkin, and some of their best young players (Jalen Ramsey, Yannick Ngakoue and Leonard Fournette) turned into diva's that wanted to get paid, which Jacksonville was reluctant to do, and eventually they all were shipped out of town. Telvin Smith, their best LB, retired young and turned out to be involved in a sexual assault case involving a minor. Calais Campbell, Barry Church and Tashaun Gipson all got old.

I think they had some bad luck with some of those things, particularly Bortles just regressing into being a career back-up. But they also made a lot of bad decisions on retaining talent and screwed up what had been a very fruitful few years of drafting, particularly on the defensive side.

 

[BaseballJones]

Yeah I thought that the Jags were going to be really good for a little while. They had tons of young talent, a great defense, a good running game, and Bortles appeared to at least be a pretty competent NFL QB.

Then it all went to hell.

I mean, they went 12-6 in 2017 (counting playoffs), and were one quarter away from going to the Super Bowl. Then Tom Brady and Stephon Gilmore happened, and the Jags have gone 14-48 (.226) since.

The Pats done broke them.

 

[joe dokes]

But Carroll had ten years as an NFL assistant before he had his first NFL HC and by the time he went to USC he had been in the NFL 16 years. So he wasn't like Spurrier (who did have a whiff of USFL at least) or Meyer.

People say Fairbanks was actually very good.

Fairbanks is a good comp.

Yeah I thought that the Jags were going to be really good for a little while. They had tons of young talent, a great defense, a good running game, and Bortles appeared to at least be a pretty competent NFL QB.
Then it all went to hell.
I mean, they went 12-6 in 2017 (counting playoffs), and were one quarter away from going to the Super Bowl. Then Tom Brady and Stephon Gilmore happened, and the Jags have gone 14-48 (.226) since.
The Pats done broke them.

Somewhat OT, but Marv Levy does not get enough credit for getting Buffalo back to the SB 3 straight times after the loss to NYG.

 

[BigSoxFan]

To be fair, 6 rushes for 4 yards.

But the point remains, if you do one thing and one thing only in this game, it's force feed Robinson if the franchise QB wants it. Because you suck anyway. But Urban has an addiction to making things worse because I think he wants to get fired.

Yup, he certainly wasn’t effective but hard for any RB to do anything with infrequent touches. And it’s been a multi-game issue. Meanwhile, the franchise QB threw it 40 times and got picked 4 times. Seems like they don’t know how to get Robinson the ball in the passing game either.

 

[johnmd20]

Yup, he certainly wasn’t effective but hard for any RB to do anything with infrequent touches. And it’s been a multi-game issue. Meanwhile, the franchise QB threw it 40 times and got picked 4 times. Seems like they don’t know how to get Robinson the ball in the passing game either.

Here's an amazing stat about Lawrence. In his first game as an NFL QB, he threw 3 touchdowns. In his next 12 games, he's thrown 6 total.

Mac has thrown 15 in his last 12. And it's not like he's setting the world on fire with his arm.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Yup, he certainly wasn’t effective but hard for any RB to do anything with infrequent touches. And it’s been a multi-game issue. Meanwhile, the franchise QB threw it 40 times and got picked 4 times. Seems like they don’t know how to get Robinson the ball in the passing game either.

First half they had 16 pass plays to 4 runs, trailed 10-0, QB had no INT.
second half, 30 pass plays 4 runs, QB had 4 INT, they gave up another 10 points.

This was a 2 score game until the late 3rd, and never went past a 3 score game, and they just dropped back and threw every down, despite a terrible line and a defense that was hunting pass.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Here's an amazing stat about Lawrence. In his first game as an NFL QB, he threw 3 touchdowns. In his next 12 games, he's thrown 6 total.

Mac has thrown 15 in his last 12. And it's not like he's setting the world on fire with his arm.

yeah, Lawrence started the year playing a lot of YOLO, then they reigned in the offense, and their only explosive WR got hurt, so where early he was making high risk high reward throws while under constant pressure, now he's making high risk, LOW reward throws while getting hit a ton.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Here's an amazing stat about Lawrence. In his first game as an NFL QB, he threw 3 touchdowns. In his next 12 games, he's thrown 6 total.

Mac has thrown 15 in his last 12. And it's not like he's setting the world on fire with his arm.

Yeah, and they're always losing, which means negative game script every week. And he still isn't putting up meaningful totals. So hard to evaluate Lawrence due to the quality of the roster and the Urban effect, which is why I don't know how Khan can sit idly by while his most valuable asset on the team is getting wasted. Get rid of Urban, draft a guy like Evan Neal to protect Lawrence, hopefully get Etienne back healthy, and see what 2022 brings.

 

[tims4wins]

Fairbanks is a good comp.


Somewhat OT, but Marv Levy does not get enough credit for getting Buffalo back to the SB 3 straight times after the loss to NYG.

Agreed on Levy. In the current era Super Bowl losers have struggled mightily just to make it back to the playoffs. To get to the Super Bowl four straight years was amazing, no matter how the rest of the conference stacked up.

 

[tims4wins]

Yeah I thought that the Jags were going to be really good for a little while. They had tons of young talent, a great defense, a good running game, and Bortles appeared to at least be a pretty competent NFL QB.

Then it all went to hell.

I mean, they went 12-6 in 2017 (counting playoffs), and were one quarter away from going to the Super Bowl. Then Tom Brady and Stephon Gilmore happened, and the Jags have gone 14-48 (.226) since.

The Pats done broke them.

And of course one of those 48 was when they more or less completely handled the Pats week 2 2018 in the “revenge” game.

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1470473171358912517


Urban really a details guy. Asked about his 3rd round pick, he says.. yeah he's playing more now... he played 0 snaps.

He realizes in the NFL people actually check if what you say is true right? You aren't conning the student newspaper or suckering some kid's mom with stories about how he's totally gonna go to class and graduate.

 

[joe dokes]

View: https://twitter.com/Demetrius82/status/1470473171358912517


Urban really a details guy. Asked about his 3rd round pick, he says.. yeah he's playing more now... he played 0 snaps.

He realizes in the NFL people actually check if what you say is true right? You aren't conning the student newspaper or suckering some kid's mom with stories about how he's totally gonna go to class and graduate.

Urban lacks either the nerve or the intellect to say, "The players who give the team the best chance to win each week are the players who play." He doesn't even have to know who the player is to say that.

 

[DanoooME]

Urban Meyer's general suckiness deserves its own thread, there's so much here.

 

[nattysez]

To be head coach? Wasn’t he already on Gus Bradley’s staff and got the interim gig when Gus was fired?

Correct. Page 375.

"Belichick was a quiet kingmaker in the NFL, a role he had earned and enjoyed. While Kraft at times treated Belichick like a management hurdle, other owners valued his word as gold. After Belichick suggested to Jacksonville Jaguars ownership that they should consider giving interim head coach Doug Marrone the full-time job in 2017, they hired him weeks later."