Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

benhogan

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Since we're posting Jared Weiss's mailbag, figured I'd throw this into the CJM thread

What are timeouts even for? Asking for a friend. — Eric B.

I would tell your friend that timeouts are, first and foremost, for stopping the flow of play. We saw Mazzulla start calling great timeouts halfway through the Miami series and there was a lot of excitement around that within the team. That was in part a recognition that as much as you want your team to stay out there and figure it out, sometimes they know what to do, but the game is moving too fast and they need to sit down and go over things again.

Of course, bringing up different principles, communicating some scheme adjustments and just getting your players to rest is crucial. But timeouts are, most importantly, a chance to stop the opponent from gaining steam. Mazzulla showed some progress there late and he’ll find a better balance for when to let it ride or break things up next year. There’s validity to both approaches, but the key growth point for Mazzulla all year has been recognizing when to change your plan to control the moment before it controls you.
 

kazuneko

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This is patently absurd, especially the bolded.

The media is hanging on for their dear lives for their industry to survive another day and for their paychecks to continue to clear. And unfortunately, this has brought us to a point where they write what will get clicks and callers with little regard for whether the shit is true or not. That's not to say that there aren't guys that are connected and have sources. They do. Sometimes they print reality too, especially when reality is interesting. But when reality isn't all that interesting, they can and will resort to printing unverified bullshit because boring doesn't pay the bills.

It's not 1985 anymore. Taking anything in print or said on tv/radio without a front-loader full of salt is a mistake. It sucks, but here we are.
Who said anything about not taking the media’s view with a grain of salt? I specifically said that I wasn’t suggesting anyone fully trust anyone. In fact, the only one suggesting trust in anyone’s view was the poster that suggested we should all buy into the team’s leadership’s perspective- without even admitting that there is zero incentive for the team to be fully open about their views. I get it, many SOSHers hate the media. And I also get that the sports media is particularly untrustworthy. But it’s not “patently absurd” to dispute the idea that the media’s view isn’t “absolutely and totally worthless”. Are you friggin kidding me? Talking about embracing an extreme view of this issue.
 

Imbricus

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I found this an interesting, and rather sharp, comment from Chad Finn of the Globe:
As for the other fatal flaw of the offense, I must admit, I'm not sure anything would cause Joe Mazzulla to deviate from his silly, shortsighted math game of structuring an offense around 3-point attempts.
I may not have phrased it exactly like that, but I think there's something to this. This season, the Celtics seemed like the only NBA team that would give up a layup to throw the ball to an open three-point shooter.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I found this an interesting, and rather sharp, comment from Chad Finn of the Globe:

I may not have phrased it exactly like that, but I think there's something to this. This season, the Celtics seemed like the only NBA team that would give up a layup to throw the ball to an open three-point shooter.
Weird column because after Finn wrote what ou quoted, he then wrote this:

I know, the Celtics don’t have anything resembling a Jokic, the fulcrum of all the Nuggets do so well. But we already know that this Celtics team can move the ball and play a selfless, versatile style of offense, because they did it this season for the first 25-30 games before devolving into their lousiest of habits as the season played on.

The weird thing is that we all know that the first 30 games of last season, all of that passing ended up in 3Ps, which the Cs were making at a historic rate.

As far as I can tell, DEN is throttling the league because they have a set that no one has really figured out how to stop - the Jokic/Murray PnR. BOS doesn't have anything like that. They also really don't have anything like the Bam/Butler PnR, which while defensible still causes teams a ton of problems.

Also, BOS doesn't have the offensive talent than DEN has. DEN has some great offensive players - even Porter Jr. is (usually) really good on that side. BOS has decidedly better defensive talent but if they are not getting transition buckets, they have less offensive talent than other teams to win 1/2 court games, particularly when Brogdon went down to an injury.

I also want to say that I think the "my turn your turn" description is really old news and not really the way the Cs played against MIA. I think the way the Cs played against MIA had people trying to break down defenses to draw rotations and kick; it's just the only two guys who can do it on a regular basis are JB and JT.
 

joe dokes

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I found this an interesting, and rather sharp, comment from Chad Finn of the Globe:

I may not have phrased it exactly like that, but I think there's something to this. This season, the Celtics seemed like the only NBA team that would give up a layup to throw the ball to an open three-point shooter.
I think your point is not the same as Chad's point. I think your point is accurate (giving up the *open* layup). I think Chad's is missing the word "open."
 

Imbricus

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I also want to say that I think the "my turn your turn" description is really old news and not really the way the Cs played against MIA.
Agree with this. "My turn your turn" was mostly a pre-Ime problem, though it did resurface at times during the season. I saw it in close games where I think the young Celtic stars felt they had to carry the team on their back. But it wasn't really the problem against Miami.

What they could use is that elite distributor who puts pressure on the defense, and who's always looking to pass first. Smart has flashes of that, but he brings the ball up like he's taking a Sunday stroll at the beach, no urgency. He's also a bit prone to sloppy, casual passes. We were hoping Brogdon was that, I guess, and I love his slashing game, but he's not an elite distributor, and Joe didn't want to run the offense through him anyway.

A late-career Chris Paul type who can stay on the court reasonably well (he could be shrink-wrapped like Brogdon and Time Lord during the regular season) would be intriguing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I found this an interesting, and rather sharp, comment from Chad Finn of the Globe:

I may not have phrased it exactly like that, but I think there's something to this. This season, the Celtics seemed like the only NBA team that would give up a layup to throw the ball to an open three-point shooter.
It's typically the smaller guards who do this when a rim defender is nearby. The Knicks and Warriors stand out in my mind as two who this a lot, but Hosuton and Sacramento also have smalls who penetrate deep into the paint for the kick out. Miami did a bunch in reg season w Vincent and Herro penetrating too. Ben Gordon, Quickley, those are some of the names that come to mind immediately. Rick Pitino left his mark in this game for sure....that was the Providence offense all the way to the Final Four when nobody was doing it.
 

Cellar-Door

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The idea that the Celtics are the only team that bases their offense around 3s is just silly... every successful offense does with the exception perhaps of Denver who has the best offensive C in basketball. Threes are worth more, you should be looking to get good looks from 3 above all else. Basically before this season the recipe for success the last 10 years has been to either shoot 3s at high volume or have LeBron James (sometimes both). Any time I see someone complain about the offense taking too many 3s I basically put them in the "this person is dumb and hasn't paid any attention to how teams win" box. Even this year, the Heat won in the playoffs because they took a huge rate of 3s and hit them.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I'm baffled by that Chad Finn comment. I think he's really smart, but there are multiple well respected books at this point about the three-point revolution, how offenses have changed to feature the three and how the mid-range jumper is just a bad shot unless you're Durant or maybe Derozen.

It's like wondering why more NFL teams don't run the option.
 

TripleOT

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There’s the old school types who eschew the three as a primary weapon, and prefer that teams try to operate inside the arc, and they are clearly losing the argument, based on the math. There have been very few players in league history accurate enough from mid-range to make that shot as efficient as the average three point shooter today.

There are others, like myself, who favor a three point heavy attack, but when those shots aren’t falling, drive to the rim more, especially if you have a physical advantage, and especially when in the playoffs.
 

brendan f

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The idea that the Celtics are the only team that bases their offense around 3s is just silly... every successful offense does with the exception perhaps of Denver who has the best offensive C in basketball.
Exactly
I'm baffled by that Chad Finn comment. I think he's really smart, but there are multiple well respected books at this point about the three-point revolution, how offenses have changed to feature the three and how the mid-range jumper is just a bad shot unless you're Durant or maybe Derozen.
He's starting to lose it. He used to to be a thoughtful guy who wrote more as a fan, sort of like Bill Simmons. Now he seems tuned into the fact that he's part of the media and has begun spinning hot-taking junk. To write an entire article based on ridiculous hypotheticals is the epitome of bad sports journalism. Here's a prime example:
"[Jokic] would have shredded the Celtics with his pinpoint passes, genius basketball IQ, and everything else in his distinctive repertoire."

Set aside the fact that pinpoint passes are part of his genius basketball IQ and his repertoire, not distinct from it, this is what Jokic does to every team. It would have made just as much sense to say the Celtics might have defended him better than Miami based on their personnel, but of course he's not going to argue that.

Then there's the take of the Celts playing "ISO ball," which is mostly not true. And his overall point is what, exactly? It would have been good for the Celtics to get throttled by the Nuggets so they can see what a really good basketball team looks like? Even if this were true, couldn't they learn the the same by watching them on TV like everyone else?

It's not even worth breaking down the article. Everything in it is speculative and based on nothing except his own imagination. It might as well have been written by Charles Barkley.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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There’s the old school types who eschew the three as a primary weapon, and prefer that teams try to operate inside the arc, and they are clearly losing the argument, based on the math. There have been very few players in league history accurate enough from mid-range to make that shot as efficient as the average three point shooter today.

There are others, like myself, who favor a three point heavy attack, but when those shots aren’t falling, drive to the rim more, especially if you have a physical advantage, and especially when in the playoffs.
This discussion is in multiple threads, but I think "when those shots aren't falling" is just really hard to accurately identify. How do you know they'tr just not falling yet? You're under 20 percent after 10 shots? What happens if you hit the next two? Stop driving? Then start again when you miss 4 of the next 5? I think if you're a drive and kick team, you have to keep driving and kicking.

But I guess you could say you've got multiple ways to get threes - drive and kick, PnR, pindowns, iso stepbacks, etc - and if they're "not falling" you turn up drive and kick and PnR over the others?
 

slamminsammya

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Agree with this. "My turn your turn" was mostly a pre-Ime problem, though it did resurface at times during the season. I saw it in close games where I think the young Celtic stars felt they had to carry the team on their back. But it wasn't really the problem against Miami.

What they could use is that elite distributor who puts pressure on the defense, and who's always looking to pass first. Smart has flashes of that, but he brings the ball up like he's taking a Sunday stroll at the beach, no urgency. He's also a bit prone to sloppy, casual passes. We were hoping Brogdon was that, I guess, and I love his slashing game, but he's not an elite distributor, and Joe didn't want to run the offense through him anyway.

A late-career Chris Paul type who can stay on the court reasonably well (he could be shrink-wrapped like Brogdon and Time Lord during the regular season) would be intriguing.
Again, maybe you can argue the Celtics are uniquely impacted by playoffs in a way other teams aren't, but they had by far the best half court offense in the league this year. The only team with almost zero transition / half court disparity actually.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This discussion is in multiple threads, but I think "when those shots aren't falling" is just really hard to accurately identify. How do you know they'tr just not falling yet? You're under 20 percent after 10 shots? What happens if you hit the next two? Stop driving? Then start again when you miss 4 of the next 5? I think if you're a drive and kick team, you have to keep driving and kicking.

But I guess you could say you've got multiple ways to get threes - drive and kick, PnR, pindowns, iso stepbacks, etc - and if they're "not falling" you turn up drive and kick and PnR over the others?
It's is VERY hard to identify from a team planning position in-game. It's more of an individual players approach but meshing 5 guys together to adjust in-game on how each is feeling shooting the ball is nearly impossible imo.

One player, espeically a shooter, can know when he has it going and nights when he doesn't. This much I'm certain. However you can't call a timeout and have five guys discussing how they feel their shot is going that night to base a strategy around it. The players actions and shot selection is going to occur naturally within the flow of their individual game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's is VERY hard to identify from a team planning position in-game. It's more of an individual players approach but meshing 5 guys together to adjust in-game on how each is feeling shooting the ball is nearly impossible imo.

One player, espeically a shooter, can know when he has it going and nights when he doesn't. This much I'm certain. However you can't call a timeout and have five guys discussing how they feel their shot is going that night to base a strategy around it. The players actions and shot selection is going to occur naturally within the flow of their individual game.
Besides, shooters always think the next one is going on, amirite? :)
 

HomeRunBaker

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Him and Tatum are good friends

wondering if that means the FO wants to trade Smart and/or Brown
Sounds like a standard Pagliuca Duke hire. Amile was a top HS prospect that Pags may or may not have "incentivized" to choose Duke. One thing Pags is known for is taking care of his fellow Dukies and getting Amile a foot in the NBA door fits that narrative. I'd say he has absolutely zero impact on the team over any low level assistant though.
 

benhogan

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They need someone to calm him down after they’re traded
there were a ton of asst coach openings, ex-player looking to get into NBA coaching & Tatum's recommendation makes him a no-brainer of a hire

It's not too late, get a Pure Sweat skills coach if Wyc can't afford Drew Hanlen
 

chilidawg

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Interesting piece about Sam Cassell and his signing with the C's. Sounds like Mazzulla started recruiting him right after the playoffs.

Right after the playoffs was over, (Mazzulla and I) got together, had a couple of phone conversations and he asked me, first of all, if was I interested in coming, joining the staff. I just told him it would be an honor, you know, I even heard from anybody else. It was an opportunity that I was looking forward to and I think Joe is an amazing coach. I’m here to just help them just, you know, to enjoy that. We have a great team and I won’t change his mentality, that’s who he is, but I’m gonna help him enjoy it a little more. That’s all.”

https://www.celticsblog.com/2023/7/11/23791747/sam-cassell-teach-joe-mazzulla-and-celtics-how-to-win-a-championship-nba-boston-brown-tatum-mazzulla
 

lovegtm

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Karalis has been beating the drum, but has anyone else been talking about how much zone the Cs have been playing in Summer League? Seems like Joe might get friskier this year with a whole offseason to prepare, and assistant staff logistics in place.
 

benhogan

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Karalis has been beating the drum, but has anyone else been talking about how much zone the Cs have been playing in Summer League? Seems like Joe might get friskier this year with a whole offseason to prepare, and assistant staff logistics in place.
I hope CJM mixes it in during the regular season every night. Then he can figure out which players excel in it (some are naturally good at jumping passing lanes within a 2-3). One more arrow in the defensive quiver.
 

lovegtm

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I hope CJM mixes it in during the regular season every night. Then he can figure out which players excel in it (some are naturally good at jumping passing lanes within a 2-3). One more arrow in the defensive quiver.
CJM is extremely open-minded imo, whatever other flaws he has. I imagine he's looked at Miami and seen the advantages they get from fully committing to zone as one of their defensive identies, and wants that to be an option for a team that could put 3 of Tatum/Horford/KP/TL in the back of a 2-3 or 2-1-2.

Miami also seems to get benefits in their man from their zone principles. I can see why really instilling it could be attractive.
 

TripleOT

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Miami has been able to play zone effectively while not having the kind of length that a team like Boston can deploy. Besides Pritchard, the rest of the probable rotation should be able to cover a lot of the floor defensively quite easily.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I can't think of another team who has any success playing zone and even Miami, it is limited to quick, change of pace, looks until the offense sees it for a few possessions when they are forced out of it. We've got some good positional defenders to do ok I guess but this isn't something I'd expect to see much of, if any, as it is so easy to get quality looks.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I can't think of another team who has any success playing zone and even Miami, it is limited to quick, change of pace, looks until the offense sees it for a few possessions when they are forced out of it. We've got some good positional defenders to do ok I guess but this isn't something I'd expect to see much of, if any, as it is so easy to get quality looks.
Miami used zone more than 25% of possessions so I think you’re understating it quite a bit. Averaged .927 per possession, so also was effective. You can argue they are an outlier, and that’s fair, if it’s been a real part of their approach for a couple years now.

my personal guess is Celtics are going to do a lot more drop than switching this year and introduce zone roughly like you describe above—and for when they have weaker defensive lineups in there.

we’ll see…
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The entire podcast is worth anyone's time. It may even change a few opinions of him amongst the fans.

It definitely made me more bullish on Mazzulla as a successful NBA coach, be it in Boston or elsewhere. He is a pretty good communicator, authentic and a sharp basketball mind. Timeout strategy notwithstanding.
 

TripleOT

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I tend to agree that not using a timeout and just letting your best player(s) and best play a crunch time may be best, but the Celtics and Mazzulla had plenty of time in season to get better at implementing that philosophy.

Maybe by baking that philosophy into a squad from day one of training camp it will eventually make it more successful than the conventional “time out, settle down your team, call you best play“ route.
 

lovegtm

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I tend to agree that not using a timeout and just letting your best player(s) and best play a crunch time may be best, but the Celtics and Mazzulla had plenty of time in season to get better at implementing that philosophy.

Maybe by baking that philosophy into a squad from day one of training camp it will eventually make it more successful than the conventional “time out, settle down your team, call you best play“ route.
Yeah, that was his point on JJ's show, about timeouts and more generally: it's not enough to just have a philosophy about how to handle X...you have to emphasize early and often how you're going to handle X if you want it to be your philosophy.

He had an interesting anecdote about having repeated to himself "you are what you emphasize" for years, only for it to go right out of his head when the maelstrom of head coaching started.
 

Auger34

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I listened to the entire podcast and I liked a lot of what he said. Especially his guiding light as a coach (learned from Bob Huggins interestingly) which was coach players hard but always show empathy and let them know you care. That's by far the most important quality as a coach in today's sports landscape.
Based off of this interview, it seems like CJM knows that the most important part of his job this year is making sure everyone is healthy and well rested come playoff time.

I have quibbles with some of the things that he talked about in regard to last year's philosophy but, to his credit, he acknowledged that they were his fault and that he is working on becoming better for this year.
 

lovegtm

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CJM really loves saying "curveball"
I think this was the origin of it: they didn't like what happened to them against Miami, didn't like not having other options, started messing around with zone over the summer, called it a "curveball", and the idea has stuck since.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I listened to the entire podcast and I liked a lot of what he said. Especially his guiding light as a coach (learned from Bob Huggins interestingly) which was coach players hard but always show empathy and let them know you care. That's by far the most important quality as a coach in today's sports landscape.
Based off of this interview, it seems like CJM knows that the most important part of his job this year is making sure everyone is healthy and well rested come playoff time.

I have quibbles with some of the things that he talked about in regard to last year's philosophy but, to his credit, he acknowledged that they were his fault and that he is working on becoming better for this year.
He certainly learned empathy from Huggy and I can't ever post this clip enough. Brings tears and goosebumps every time. This was a nice listen and only reiterated my astonishment of being a behind the bench 4th assistant then being told as training camp begins that this is your team and oh yeah, your staff are Assistants 5 thru 8 last year to help you. Then #5 bolts midseason. To me this speaks him and to the players at the top of the chart....Tatum, Horford, Smart, etc in keeping this team together.

View: https://youtu.be/VtRJXLyS0_U?si=ihmLFDI8Xbf1kTls
 

Imbricus

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my personal guess is Celtics are going to do a lot more drop than switching this year and introduce zone roughly like you describe above—and for when they have weaker defensive lineups in there.
If that's true -- and I suspect you're right -- I'll be delighted. I think they needed more defensive looks to throw teams off balance last year, plus it gives them more lineup versatility, as they can more easily hide a small defender, like Pritch. But they really need to practice the zone if they're going to use it in the playoffs, so they should be flashing it early in the season so players can get comfortable with the scheme. I'm psyched to see Porzingis and Jrue play in green, and am almost equally psyched to see what Joe's new platoon of coaches cook up for offensive/defensive sets.
 

benhogan

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I tend to agree that not using a timeout and just letting your best player(s) and best play a crunch time may be best, but the Celtics and Mazzulla had plenty of time in season to get better at implementing that philosophy.

Maybe by baking that philosophy into a squad from day one of training camp it will eventually make it more successful than the conventional “time out, settle down your team, call you best play“ route.
Agreed. Not calling a TO, and letting the players play at the end of the game against a lesser defense is a perfectly fine strategy.

BUT not having an 8-second play/approach drawn up or practiced is malpractice... and the results reflected that.

Good for Joe to offer his mea culpa. Now that he has an actual staff and more time to prepare, we should expect better end-of-game results.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YXgWFlrtzY
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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His comments about the Nets game were interesting. He said he was sitting there watching the Cs jump out to a 30 point lead and saying they were screwed - because at some point BRK was going to start hitting their 3Ps and they would make defensive adjustments to stop the Cs from getting easy looks at the rim.

I also liked the fact that he said analytics in the playoffs go out the window. His reasoning is that the sample sizes are too small but the conclusion works for me, particularly if the Cs are going to have a "pet play" or "curveball" that they can go to in order to get a good look or a foul.

Finally, the two most interesting things JMazz said IMO were: (i) his jiu-jitsu teacher that something to the effect that when the team has the lead and the game is coming towards the end, the closer the team is to losing because teams that are ahead get complacent and teams that are behind get desparate and (ii) JMazz doesn't do well when he has time to think as he starts equivocating and wondering if this decision was correct.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I thought it was really interesting how he felt like he took defense for granted last year, not doing enough to emphasize it because he assumed everyone knew to "play good D." Takes a lot of confidence in yourself to admit that, I think. Everyone saw the D was slipping, but he kept figuring the guys just knew they had to step it up and he didn't do enough to make sure they did. That's certainly what it looked like!
 

brendan f

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I also liked the fact that he said analytics in the playoffs go out the window. His reasoning is that the sample sizes are too small but the conclusion works for me, particularly if the Cs are going to have a "pet play" or "curveball" that they can go to in order to get a good look or a foul.
What stood out more to me is that (reading between the lines) he puts the lack of having a curveball on Ime (and maybe Brad). Ime only cared about switching, so Joe never learned any other way. He says in the interview "For two or three years we didn't have [a curveball]....it was just switch, guard the ball, and individual defense."

The analytics and small sample size in the playoffs he seems to put more on himself.
 

chilidawg

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Some comments from Tatum on Mazzulla:

“I give Joe a lot of credit. I’ve seen the growth,” Tatum said. “Not that I didn’t think he did a great job last year, he just has more time to prepare. He was able to get a staff that he felt supported him in the best way, and he’s helped change the culture in a lot of ways honestly.”

“I feel like he’s had a huge imprint on how how wants things to be, how he wants practice, how he wants the environment, the vibe,” Tatum said. “We’ve all bought in, but Joe has done a great job of taking charge of doing things how he wants it to go. It’s his team, he’s the coach, and it’s been really cool to see.”

“Practice has been hard as [expletive], I ain’t going to lie” Tatum said. “We’ve been practicing, a couple two days, but it’s been good. We’ve been working hard. The second unit has been pushing the first unit. We’ve had a lot of competitive days, so guys are excited. Guys are in good shape, guys have been working this offseason. There’s just a freshness about this season.”


https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/10/18/jayson-tatum-joe-mazzulla-quotes/
 

timelysarcasm

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Some comments from Tatum on Mazzulla:

“I give Joe a lot of credit. I’ve seen the growth,” Tatum said. “Not that I didn’t think he did a great job last year, he just has more time to prepare. He was able to get a staff that he felt supported him in the best way, and he’s helped change the culture in a lot of ways honestly.”

“I feel like he’s had a huge imprint on how how wants things to be, how he wants practice, how he wants the environment, the vibe,” Tatum said. “We’ve all bought in, but Joe has done a great job of taking charge of doing things how he wants it to go. It’s his team, he’s the coach, and it’s been really cool to see.”

“Practice has been hard as [expletive], I ain’t going to lie” Tatum said. “We’ve been practicing, a couple two days, but it’s been good. We’ve been working hard. The second unit has been pushing the first unit. We’ve had a lot of competitive days, so guys are excited. Guys are in good shape, guys have been working this offseason. There’s just a freshness about this season.”


https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2023/10/18/jayson-tatum-joe-mazzulla-quotes/
Hard not to be excited for this season. There's no scenario in which a full offseason of prep, a full compliment of his own coaches, and the learning lumps taken last year don't make Mazzulla a better coach this year. The way the last season began was really difficult, and as much as we all say coaches don't do much in the NBA, etc. everything that went down with Ime was a huge distraction (it's really weird hearing Houston's pregame basically just heaping praise on him).

Freshness - I like that word. Feels like the page has finally turned on Ime, and bringing in some new guys (coaches and players) who are thrilled to be here is fueling that good feeling.