Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

PedroKsBambino

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Hello, let me introduce you to my friend sampling bias. He's really close with mid range shooting these days.
This study really is saying the value of the 2s that are taken today is higher than the 3s that are taken today. Whether or not I agree with that, it is definitely different than saying "teams should take more 2s". That's because teams cannot necessarily increase to volume of 'good' 2s that they are taking today (.e.g layups, open/star-driven 8-10 footers, star-driven post ups).

Put a different way--Darryl Morey has won, and most teams are pretty good at deciding which 2s to take these days.
 

benhogan

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CJM with two high-level coaching decisions last night:

TIMEOUT. With 7:20 left in the 3rd Quarter. Celtics up 77-74.
Both JAYs had gone ISO - bounce the ball, my turn hoops for two consecutive plays.

Exhibiting some old habits.

NEXT OFFENSIVE PLAY. Joe plants Jaylen and Jayson in the corners. Draws up Horns/3 man-set (Jrue, White, KP). Results in an open 11' basket for KP.

The Celtics never looked back. Outscored the MAVs 61-36 over the next 18 minutes.

This is absolutely massive growth from Joe over last season
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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CJM with two high-level coaching decisions last night:

TIMEOUT. With 7:20 left in the 3rd Quarter. Celtics up 77-74.
Both JAYs had gone ISO - bounce the ball, my turn hoops for two consecutive plays.

Exhibiting some old habits.

NEXT OFFENSIVE PLAY. Joe plants Jaylen and Jayson in the corners. Draws up Horns/3 man-set (Jrue, White, KP). Results in an open 11' basket for KP.

The Celtics never looked back. Outscored the MAVs 61-36 over the next 18 minutes.

This is absolutely massive growth from Joe over last season
Actually 3.
Decided to re-watch The Town after the game instead of during it.

I’d pay good money to watch that movie with JMazz.
 

chilidawg

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CJM with two high-level coaching decisions last night:

TIMEOUT. With 7:20 left in the 3rd Quarter. Celtics up 77-74.
Both JAYs had gone ISO - bounce the ball, my turn hoops for two consecutive plays.

Exhibiting some old habits.

NEXT OFFENSIVE PLAY. Joe plants Jaylen and Jayson in the corners. Draws up Horns/3 man-set (Jrue, White, KP). Results in an open 11' basket for KP.

The Celtics never looked back. Outscored the MAVs 61-36 over the next 18 minutes.

This is absolutely massive growth from Joe over last season
Joe calls timeouts when we're not playing the right way, but not often to stem momentum runs by other teams. Personally I think that makes good sense.
 

Jimbodandy

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CJM with two high-level coaching decisions last night:

TIMEOUT. With 7:20 left in the 3rd Quarter. Celtics up 77-74.
Both JAYs had gone ISO - bounce the ball, my turn hoops for two consecutive plays.

Exhibiting some old habits.

NEXT OFFENSIVE PLAY. Joe plants Jaylen and Jayson in the corners. Draws up Horns/3 man-set (Jrue, White, KP). Results in an open 11' basket for KP.

The Celtics never looked back. Outscored the MAVs 61-36 over the next 18 minutes.

This is absolutely massive growth from Joe over last season
Good observations. He is identifying and fixing shit quickly.

Joe calls timeouts when we're not playing the right way, but not often to stem momentum runs by other teams. Personally I think that makes good sense.
Also a great note. Often, but not always, one thing causes another. But if it's just a few open shots rimming out at one end and a few contested, bad shots falling at the other, there's not a ton of value there in the TO.
 

lovegtm

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Joe calls timeouts when we're not playing the right way, but not often to stem momentum runs by other teams. Personally I think that makes good sense.
Especially in a league where 8-0 runs happen ALL THE TIME, even when you're playing the right way. I feel like other coaches over-use timeouts in those spots to impose an illusory sense of control.
 

lars10

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I love how Joe responded in the post game. Basically if he expects the players to do it, the coaches should be held to the same standard since there is no rule against it. It sounds like he even called out the coaches for not doing it earlier in the season.
He's talked about this multiple times in press conferences... he's told the coaches to not let any opposing player have a free shot at the basket during timeouts. So he expects the coaches and players to attempt to block any shots from going in. His idea is that he doesn't want the opposing player to gain any advantage by seeing the ball go in... it's BB kind of stuff.. basically doing anything he can to make sure the other team is uncomfortable.

The more you watch his press conferences, the more you realize he's a pretty great thinker about the game and probably the perfect coach for this particular team. He also talked today about how he loves to go to G league games or just games in general to see how other coaches coach... and then to think how he'd handle the situation. Guy just flat out loves the game and figuring out different ways to coach it. When you listen to his press conferences he talks about the game differently than pretty much every NBA coach out there... he's like BB in that he seems to think about every possible advantage and loves having film of every game since he can use footage to make the team better. He was talking about Utah, I think, and how he loves that they play the way they do... it was a particular part of the game that they do particularly well, so now he had footage to show the team how they could improve against that aspect. His conferences are really interesting to watch.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He's talked about this multiple times in press conferences... he's told the coaches to not let any opposing player have a free shot at the basket during timeouts. So he expects the coaches and players to attempt to block any shots from going in. His idea is that he doesn't want the opposing player to gain any advantage by seeing the ball go in... it's BB kind of stuff.. basically doing anything he can to make sure the other team is uncomfortable.

The more you watch his press conferences, the more you realize he's a pretty great thinker about the game and probably the perfect coach for this particular team. He also talked today about how he loves to go to G league games or just games in general to see how other coaches coach... and then to think how he'd handle the situation. Guy just flat out loves the game and figuring out different ways to coach it. When you listen to his press conferences he talks about the game differently than pretty much every NBA coach out there... he's like BB in that he seems to think about every possible advantage and loves having film of every game since he can use footage to make the team better. He was talking about Utah, I think, and how he loves that they play the way they do... it was a particular part of the game that they do particularly well, so now he had footage to show the team how they could improve against that aspect. His conferences are really interesting to watch.
I haven't seen a lot of his pressers and I was unfamiliar with the shot blocking thing so thank you for sharing.

That said if Joe really cared about improving on his 109-39 record coaching in the National Basketball Association, he doesn't have to go to the trouble of watching other coaches. He can simply draw infinite coaching wisdom from our game threads.
 

joe dokes

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At the risk of blasphemy in these parts, JM's "weirdness" reminds me of Phil Jackson. They are not weird in the same way, but they share the same mentality of believing it necessary to challenge the players in unconventional ways to bring out their best.
 

Preacher

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I love how Joe responded in the post game. Basically if he expects the players to do it, the coaches should be held to the same standard since there is no rule against it. It sounds like he even called out the coaches for not doing it earlier in the season.
I’ve never seen a JM press conference so thanks for sharing. So they brought up to the block thing to him three times and the last one he talked about getting on his staff for not contesting those dead ball shots. He seems to be looking for any advantage, no matter how small. He doesn’t want a guy feeling good about himself walking back to his bench after hitting a dead ball shot.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Joe is really toeing the line of trying to find little advantages and being a complete unhinged psycho, and I kind of love it. You can’t argue with the results. Could you imagine Brad Stevens running up to legitimately contest a dead ball shot?
 

Ed Hillel

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That 100% should be illegal lol. It’s a completely unnecessary risk to an NBA player. You could see a player getting startled midair or something, as a coach comes unexpectedly out of his peripheral vision, and lands awkwardly. But it’s still funny.
 

chilidawg

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I haven't seen a lot of his pressers and I was unfamiliar with the shot blocking thing so thank you for sharing.

That said if Joe really cared about improving on his 109-39 record coaching in the National Basketball Association, he doesn't have to go to the trouble of watching other coaches. He can simply draw infinite coaching wisdom from our game threads.
SOSH: Call a timeout!
 

HomeRunBaker

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Joe is really toeing the line of trying to find little advantages and being a complete unhinged psycho, and I kind of love it. You can’t argue with the results. Could you imagine Brad Stevens running up to legitimately contest a dead ball shot?
That was his makeup as a player under Huggy at West Virginia. It’s his personality.
 

joe dokes

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I agree. Royce shouldn’t have been shooting during the dead ball.
Players have been shooting those dead ball shots forever. The closest I've seen a coach to doing this was van Gundy gnawing on Mourning's (?) leg.
I dont think its dangerous. It is really weird though.
 

ElUno20

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From a non Cs fan, Joe is such a weird, chip on his shoulder, dude. There's something off about him.

He's captaining a team locked for a title so he'll be immortalized but he comes off as a weasel a lot of the time.
 

DavidTai

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From a non Cs fan, Joe is such a weird, chip on his shoulder, dude. There's something off about him.

He's captaining a team locked for a title so he'll be immortalized but he comes off as a weasel a lot of the time.
It feels like having a basketball version of Belichick, in terms of persona.
 

Euclis20

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From a non Cs fan, Joe is such a weird, chip on his shoulder, dude. There's something off about him.

He's captaining a team locked for a title so he'll be immortalized but he comes off as a weasel a lot of the time.
It feels like he comes from the same tree as Thibodeau. More than a little nuts.

*edit - and it's worth noting that he's still the youngest head coach in the league. It may not be obvious to anyone not watching every game, but he's definitely improved from last year, and deserves a ton of credit for what they've done. For all the "super team" talk, Boston has just one consensus top 25 player, and while I'd take Tatum over anyone in the league outside of Giannis/Jokic, that's definitely a minority opinion outside of New England. Joe has done a terrific job this year.

View: https://twitter.com/BOSSportsGordo/status/1761581692219761005?s=20
 
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Montana Fan

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The Thibs comparison is interesting with them both being from competitive setting in New England. I liked the stories that were told about Joe’s dad when he was first hired.

I think Joe still has some NE “kid” in him and wanted to glove a shot put up near him.
 

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This may come across as bad....and I dont mean it to be....but wth......Joe seems almost autistic. Or maybe savant-ish. His weird eye wavering his looking off into space while answering.

I think he is a great coach and obv a great communicator and dont really think he has a spectrum diagnose, but he has some habits of people who do.
 

InstaFace

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From a non Cs fan, Joe is such a weird, chip on his shoulder, dude. There's something off about him.

He's captaining a team locked for a title so he'll be immortalized but he comes off as a weasel a lot of the time.
I fully get "weird", and "something off about him". Like, he'd make me nervous just having a brief chat if we were waiting in line together at the DMV. The crazy eyes, the energy brimming just under the surface, the overly-standoffish responses to basic questions (that much is like Belichick). Guy is a bit of a psycho, just like someone said upthread. He might even be the biggest psycho coach in the league, though as noted he's got some competition in that regard.

I don't get "weasel". Haven't seen anything even remotely dishonest or even disingenuous out of him. He's probably a workaholic coach who takes everything too seriously and needs the likes of Cassell around to be reminded to chill out a bit. But I get the sense that one of the reasons he was elevated so quickly and decisively is that Brad and Wyc know him to be a high-character guy.

He's relentless in standing up for his guys, his tribe. Someone asked a question in that conference posted yesterday that invited him to compare the extent to which different players have sacrificed for their role (particularly Jrue), and he saw the trap coming and passed out of it, saying that he's not going to get into one guy doing more than another, that everyone on the team has sacrificed to get the results to where they all want them to be. I'm sure his demeanor is probably very different if you're inside the Celtics bubble than if you're outside of it. Which is also exactly like Belichick (whose players loved him, and always spoke glowingly of his sense of humor and coaching style).
 

lovegtm

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This may come across as bad....and I dont mean it to be....but wth......Joe seems almost autistic. Or maybe savant-ish. His weird eye wavering his looking off into space while answering.

I think he is a great coach and obv a great communicator and dont really think he has a spectrum diagnose, but he has some habits of people who do.
I agree, and aren't you just rephrasing the word "spectrum"?
 

Auger34

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I don’t think he’s a weasel. Dont see that at all.

I think he does have a pretty weird energy about him. IMO, he’s kind of off putting. I don’t love the guy but my opinion means jack shit and the players seem to like him, which is all that matters
 

Smokey Joe

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Players have been shooting those dead ball shots forever. The closest I've seen a coach to doing this was van Gundy gnawing on Mourning's (?) leg.
I dont think its dangerous. It is really weird though.
KG used to do this all the time. He thought that any time that a player shot and made a basket you ran the risk of him getting into a groove and shooting well for the rest of the game. I bet that he would have gotten along with Mazzulla just fine.
 

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bakahump

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You see tall guys “goal tend” dead ball shots all the time. I assumed as a subtle f*ck you to the shooter. So it makes sense to me at least that it’s a “keep them out of a groove thing”
 

RG33

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I think he does have a pretty weird energy about him. IMO, he’s kind of off putting. I don’t love the guy but my opinion means jack shit and the players seem to like him, which is all that matters
Yeah, I think he has done a good job this year and thought the knocks against him last year were premature and not really his fault after having been placed in a tough situation. I agree with you though, there is something off-putting about him — he seems like a weirdo with an undeserved chip on his shoulder to me. Perhaps I’m biased from having sat across from him during his Sunday bible study session with his pastor last month (it was just really weird to me to be doing that so publicly) but there seems to be something off about him to me.
 

lars10

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Yeah, I think he has done a good job this year and thought the knocks against him last year were premature and not really his fault after having been placed in a tough situation. I agree with you though, there is something off-putting about him — he seems like a weirdo with an undeserved chip on his shoulder to me. Perhaps I’m biased from having sat across from him during his Sunday bible study session with his pastor last month (it was just really weird to me to be doing that so publicly) but there seems to be something off about him to me.
Was he doing a Bible study pre game? Or were you at his Bible study?
 

RG33

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Was he doing a Bible study pre game? Or were you at his Bible study?
He was in the lobby of the team hotel in Indy on Sunday morning in a high traffic area with his pastor going through stuff for the entire 90 minutes that we were there having coffee, etc. To each their own of course, I just find that to be a bit much in general and the public display over-the-top.
 

bankshot1

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If I was a player and saw a civilian rushing at me, I might get ready to defend myself. And if said civilian got decked or run over he would have no one but himself to blame.

Having said that, CJM has had IMO a pretty good sophomore year (so far) from a not so good rookie year (yeah I know not his fault, but he still was not the ready for prime time coach the more than ready for prime time Celts needed to advance last year). IMO he has grown and matured, withstanding the above silliness. My real concern, and I voiced this last year, is the post-season and how he deals with adjustments that will likely be required in tight one possession post-season games and different looks presented or required as series develop.
 

lovegtm

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He was in the lobby of the team hotel in Indy on Sunday morning in a high traffic area with his pastor going through stuff for the entire 90 minutes that we were there having coffee, etc. To each their own of course, I just find that to be a bit much in general and the public display over-the-top.
Isn't the alternative his hotel room or a separate conference room? The former would be far weirder, and the latter probably feels logistically hard.

For religious people I knew, meeting in coffee shop-type areas with pastors was very, very standard.
 

lars10

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If I was a player and saw a civilian rushing at me, I might get ready to defend myself. And if said civilian got decked or run over he would have no one but himself to blame.

Having said that, CJM has had IMO a pretty good sophomore year (so far) from a not so good rookie year (yeah I know not his fault, but he still was not the ready for prime time coach the more than ready for prime time Celts needed to advance last year). IMO he has grown and matured, withstanding the above silliness. My real concern, and I voiced this last year, is the post-season and how he deals with adjustments that will likely be required in tight one possession post-season games and different looks presented or required as series develop.
It all comes down to how far they get in the playoffs and if they win it or don't.. but when I listen to his press conferences I get the feeling of a coach that is constantly thinking about and preparing for every team they'll face more than a coach who will be ill prepared. I wonder how much of late game tactics/approaches/failure or not is due to the coach rather than execution by the players. I got the ones last year that the players really didn't execute.. and possibly Joe was ill prepared.. but I guess I also don't think Spoelstra did anything special to get role players to shoot out of their minds or getting Butler to score etc.

I wonder how much of their game plan they've truly tested against Denver... I'm hoping that they've experimented a lot against Denver and not done a lot of what they intend to do if they meet up... they're really the only team I could currently see beating the Celts even if the C's play their best. I think Boston has too much shooting for Milwaukee if they play their normal game.. Denver seems to match up with them a lot worse.
 

Auger34

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. I agree with you though, there is something off-putting about him — he seems like a weirdo with an undeserved chip on his shoulder to me.
This is pretty much exactly what I was trying to say and why I think the Belichick comparisons are really off base.

belichick clearly didn’t care that much about what was written about him, or if he did he definitely never showed it to the media.

Mazzulla definitely does care about what’s written about him and his team. I liked what he said to Gary Washburn (who’s a fucking dolt) when he brought up Tatum struggling but I could never imagine Belichick ever doing anything like that (or anything even close).

None of this matters at all but when I see fans of other teams saying they don’t like him or that he’s weird l, I can’t disagree. If he coached a different team I would be saying the exact same shit
 

lars10

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To me his energy is very much like BB in his press conferences. I personally like the way he doesn't suffer fools/reporters lightly.. as an example a few days ago he was asked about if he thought Tatum was tired/not playing well.. he responded by saying that he put up almost the exact same numbers as Maxey did against the Celtics a few days before.. and that same reporter had asked why Maxey was killing the Celts... so he asked that reporter why is it "Maxey killing us" and "Tatum playing tired" when the numbers are the same?

He does seem slightly over aggressive at times to defend his team or to say a question isn't particularly good.. but he also expands on questions and answers when a reporter does their homework or asks an interesting question. Perhaps he should be more humble, but he's also the youngest coach in the league with one of the best winning percentages of all time (which of course go somewhat hand in hand given he's coached so few games), but as a start to a career it's a pretty great start.
 

brendan f

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All the reporters I have heard from say he's done a 180 in terms of how he comfortable he is now in his own skin; they see him as far different from last year. I'm not sure it's as clear to the fans.
I wonder how much of their game plan they've truly tested against Denver... I'm hoping that they've experimented a lot against Denver and not done a lot of what they intend to do if they meet up... they're really the only team I could currently see beating the Celts even if the C's play their best
I'm not sure how much strategy Joe has saved. He clearly likes the 5 out and it's worked well in almost every game. But against Denver it didn't. Denver was very intent on making sure they pressed Tatum and sent help. They were then usually able to disrupt his passing lanes and rotate back to their initial man , and they were athletic enough to stop the 5 out from being effective.

To me, Denver wasn't being deceptive. They had a clear game plan and Joe decided to allow Tatum to try to figure things out on his own rather than deviate from their 5 out. To me, it seemed like a great opportunity to employ some high pick and roll and get their guards more involved going downhill to help create some movement. But Joe never did this.

I think Joe can be out-coached because he's slow to adjust. Most of the time, he doesn't need to but I worry about him with in-game adjustments against high level coaches. Of course, the team might be good enough that it doesn't matter. We'll see.
 

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All the reporters I have heard from say he's done a 180 in terms of how he comfortable he is now in his own skin; they see him as far different from last year. I'm not sure it's as clear to the fans.


I'm not sure how much strategy Joe has saved. He clearly likes the 5 out and it's worked well in almost every game. But against Denver it didn't. Denver was very intent on making sure they pressed Tatum and sent help. They were then usually able to disrupt his passing lanes and rotate back to their initial man , and they were athletic enough to stop the 5 out from being effective.

To me, Denver wasn't being deceptive. They had a clear game plan and Joe decided to allow Tatum to try to figure things out on his own rather than deviate from their 5 out. To me, it seemed like a great opportunity to employ some high pick and roll and get their guards more involved going downhill to help create some movement. But Joe never did this.

I think Joe can be out-coached because he's slow to adjust. Most of the time, he doesn't need to but I worry about him with in-game adjustments against high level coaches. Of course, the team might be good enough that it doesn't matter. We'll see.
I am not a hoops coach so I cannot speak to your critique of Mazzulla but I would at least consider that he purposely didn't employ a high pick and roll during a regular season match up that doesn't really mean anything. Why put it on tape against a possible finals match up now?

Also, the Denver games were close enough that you can look at a bunch of things that may have changed outcomes. For me it was all the open looks that just didn't fall.
 

brendan f

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I am not a hoops coach so I cannot speak to your critique of Mazzulla but I would at least consider that he purposely didn't employ a high pick and roll during a regular season match up that doesn't really mean anything. Why put it on tape against a possible finals match up now?

Also, the Denver games were close enough that you can look at a bunch of things that may have changed outcomes. For me it was all the open looks that just didn't fall.
I'm not a coach either, but that's part of the point: most of this stuff isn't rocket science. I don't see the point of "saving" strategies for the playoffs (Denver certainly didn't against the C's). Most of the playoffs are reactive: one team tries something, the other team counters. My point is that Joe has traditionally been slow to react. There's reason for that based on the success of the team's offense (they haven't needed to) but he's going to need to do it in the playoffs against a team like Denver that doesn't get easily beat off the dribble.

We also saw Joe's limitations at the end of the Cavs game. Again, he relied on Tatum to initiate the offense and Tatum was going too slow. Instead of giving Tatum a sign to hurry things up (or God forbid run a play), he stood there and watched his best player order a clear out that went nowhere. When Joe finally realized things weren't going well it was too late. He apparently tried calling timeout with 4 seconds left (which, to my knowledge, nobody saw), but by then he had already waited too long.

A lot of people blame Tatum for his poor play against Denver and for his poor execution at the end of the Cavs game, but I think the blame goes to Joe in both cases. If things are going south you can't just wait and wait and hope your players figure things out. You have to employ strategies that counter what the other team is doing.

Now I like Joe and think he's a good coach but he has limitations and those limitations can be exploited by very good teams and very good coaches (Mark Daigneault, for example, is someone I think could give Joe problems in a series).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I'm not a coach either, but that's part of the point: most of this stuff isn't rocket science. I don't see the point of "saving" strategies for the playoffs (Denver certainly didn't against the C's). Most of the playoffs are reactive: one team tries something, the other team counters. My point is that Joe has traditionally been slow to react. There's reason for that based on the success of the team's offense (they haven't needed to) but he's going to need to do it in the playoffs against a team like Denver that doesn't get easily beat off the dribble.

We also saw Joe's limitations at the end of the Cavs game. Again, he relied on Tatum to initiate the offense and Tatum was going too slow. Instead of giving Tatum a sign to hurry things up (or God forbid run a play), he stood there and watched his best player order a clear out that went nowhere. When Joe finally realized things weren't going well it was too late. He apparently tried calling timeout with 4 seconds left (which, to my knowledge, nobody saw), but by then he had already waited too long.

A lot of people blame Tatum for his poor play against Denver and for his poor execution at the end of the Cavs game, but I think the blame goes to Joe in both cases. If things are going south you can't just wait and wait and hope your players figure things out. You have to employ strategies that counter what the other team is doing.

Now I like Joe and think he's a good coach but he has limitations and those limitations can be exploited by very good teams and very good coaches (Mark Daigneault, for example, is someone I think could give Joe problems in a series).
I would love to see an analysis of Mazzulla's "slow to react" issue and what its actually cost the team. I sense you are arguing that its not cost them yet but will going forward.

This is the problem with the Mazzulla criticism - its an argument that the Celtics are winning inefficiently some times and its hurting their margin of victory - its not that he is actually costing the team wins - unless you think they should have an 80% or 90% winning percentage. If course you are of the mind that he will get out coached by the top guys in the league - and its interesting that you mention Daigneault because I watch a lot of his games and I don't perceive him as that much better than Mazzulla (they both have a lot of talent to work with) - whereas I am open to the idea that Joe may be a bit more strategic.

Look, coaching miscues can sink this team - I think most here would agree about that. But I find that a team that's winning close to 79% of its games by big margins probably doesn't need to change much at present. If they get into the playoffs and then don't adjust to meet their opponents I'll be right there with the "Joe is over his head" crowd but to me he has earned some trust.