Just how good was Nomar Garciaparra?

[TFisNEXT]

The 1999 Red Sox had absolute peak Pedro and peak Nomar, along with some nice complementary pieces. Too bad they couldn't do more with it that year.

They didn't have enough pitching behind Pedro but the offense was pretty damned good that season. Saberhagen was actually really good that season but he was only able to pitch 119 innings and I think he was physically done by the time the playoffs came around.

I actually marvel at the 2000 team even more....they had peak Pedro, peak Nomar, and peak Carl Everett (a 5 WAR player) and still couldn't win more than 85 games. The only other position player who accrued more than 2 WAR was Trot Nixon (2.5 bWAR). The rest were basically replacement level that season....which is hard to accomplish.

Same deal on the pitching side. Only Pedro (11.7 bWAR) and Derek Lowe (3.5 bWAR) were able to eclipse 2 WAR seasons.

 

[Ale Xander]

trading Manny and Lester for Arod would have also lost us 2007

 

[Ramon AC]

Nomar brought me back to baseball in the winter of 1997-98. I heard that the Red Sox had this shortstop who won a unanimous rookie of the year, and I started paying attention again in 1998 after taking a number of years off during the Boggs/Clemens decline years and the strike fiasco.

I12XU and I went to see the 2003 Sox at Veterans Stadium. Pedro went 7 IP, 4 hits, 7 Ks, and 1 ER. Grady Grady’ed the game by letting Timlin pitch to Thome with two outs in the eighth to tie the game, which was lost in extras after the Red Sox took leads in the 12th AND 13th, because Jason Shiell and Rudy Seanez.

But I’ll remember that game until I die because Nomar went 6-6, all singles, with a walk and every hit was an incandescent beam of highly charged particles that endangered the lives of those in its path.

Nomar was the chosen one. It should have been him leading the Nation to the promised land. But cruelly he was destined never to get there himself.

 

[TFisNEXT]

trading Manny and Lester for Arod would have also lost us 2007

I cannot picture ARod hitting that walk-off against K-rod to win game 2 of the ALDS. I know ARod eventually did get over his playoff demons in 2009, but it is cringe-worthy exercise trying to envision him carrying them in parts of the 2007 postseason the way Manny did.

 

[bakahump]

My grandfather died so i moved into an "apartment" below my 74 year old grandmother. I mowed shoveled paid no rent and ate the most delicious meals. We would often watch the 98-02 sox. Nan had no interest in baseball but Nomar was, lets face it, infectious. My excitement to his at bats became her excitement.
His batting ritual became "Ohh good Mr. Fussbudgets is up again!" and time and again we were rewarded with a hit, a hr and or an RBI.

I dont think Nan ever cared about a single other baseball player. But she cared about Mr. Fussbugets, and I got to enjoy him with her. And for that Nomar was Friggin Awesome.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

trading Manny and Lester for Arod would have also lost us 2007

Might not have won 2004 either.

 

[Max Power]

Still probably my favorite Sox player of all time. He and Pedro were instrumental in me becoming a Sox fan again, after not paying any attention from 87-97.
I wonder how peak Nomar would go with today’s pitching/batting clock

It only really matters after the first pitch, so the clock wouldn't have come up that often for him.

It turns out that the clock just gives the ritual hitters something else to fixate on. If you're at a game or can see the clock at home, watch Casas. He stays outside the box until there are exactly 12 seconds left, then steps in, adjusts his helmet, and looks at the pitcher right at 8 or 9. If the clock gets reset for some reason, he'll short circuit for a bit and kind of step in and out. I'm sure Nomar would have timed his gloves and toe taps to coincide with exact times on the clock in the same way.

 

[Pablo's TB Lover]

My hot take is that the Nomar trade really didn’t make that much of a difference to the 2004 team’s success. Cabrera was obviously a defensive upgrade, but Nomar was still a perfectly serviceable defensive SS and a much better hitter. Modern defensive stats aren’t terribly glowing about Mientkiewicz’s defense, though I recall we were all ecstatic about how first base wizardry (maybe moreso because of how he compared to Millar than anything).

It’s not that I think the trade was a net negative, just that I think there’s an alternate universe in which Nomar stays and the Sox still win the WS.

I think OCab brought the chemistry though. Personalized handshakes for all the guys
We may not think that stuff matters, but playing and coaching a lot of ball over the years, that stuff really keeps the team in the moment, celebrating and building momentum

Nomar was still one of my favourite players to watch hit though. Guy was a tough out

What OCab brought was reliability. The biggest catalyst for the trade, IIRC, was there were doubts on whether Nomar would be able to play everyday for the remainder of the season. As it turned out he missed a three game stretch in August and then a twelve of thirteen stretch in September. Probably survivable for a team on a roll like the Sox were at that point, but then the question is whether they would have been on that roll if he were there.

Sometimes availability is the best ability and Nomar was going to have a tough time staying on the field, for a couple of reasons. It was clear Nomar was bitter at the front office and ownership, as Jeter had one more year of service than him but was at a much higher level of compensation, never mind his own teammate Manny who was in year 4 of a huge contract paying him nearly twice Nomar's salary on a yearly basis. While he had valid injuries, it was clear during 2004 that Nomar was not going to risk future earnings just to be a "dirt dog" and play through injury to his long-term detriment. In retrospect, the injuries had already started to impact his performance from its peak in 1999-2000.

 

[GB5]

To my recollection Nomars last memorable hit was in Game 6 in 03. He hit either a double or triple to left center in the toilet off of Nelson or Heredia and Matsui in left picked up the ball and threw it mostly sideways, I think it ended up in Yankees dugout.

Nomar had a big game that day.

Sox with Burkett beat Messina and the Yanks in a must win Game 6 at the Toilet.

The 03 series gets lost in the memory of 04 but what a series.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

To my recollection Nomars last memorable hit was in Game 6 in 03. He hit either a double or triple to left center in the toilet off of Nelson or Heredia and Matsui in left picked up the ball and threw it mostly sideways, I think it ended up in Yankees dugout.

Nomar had a big game that day.

Sox with Burkett beat Messina and the Yanks in a must win Game 6 at the Toilet.

The 03 series gets lost in the memory of 04 but what a series.

Pettitte started, Sox beat up on Contreras in that one. Todd Jones got the win, IIRC.

The Yankees losing to the Marlins in 03, and Pettitte / Clemens leaving and being replaced by Vazquez and Brown was pretty beneficial to the Sox, too.

(I was wrong- Jones pitched, but Embree got the win. Last appearance of John Burkett’s career).

 

[TFisNEXT]

To my recollection Nomars last memorable hit was in Game 6 in 03. He hit either a double or triple to left center in the toilet off of Nelson or Heredia and Matsui in left picked up the ball and threw it mostly sideways, I think it ended up in Yankees dugout.

Nomar had a big game that day.

Sox with Burkett beat Messina and the Yanks in a must win Game 6 at the Toilet.

The 03 series gets lost in the memory of 04 but what a series.

I remember game 6 being started by Andy Pettitte. But you are correct Nomar had a big triple (turned into a run via Matsui's throwing error) that sliced the MFY lead from 6-4 to 6-5.

Nomar also had a big hit in game 4 of ALDS off Foulke (double off the monster as tying run...he later scored with Manny on Ortiz's huge 2 out double).

 

[Garfinvold]

I was a HUGE John Valentin fan at the time and while I loved Nomar, I always had this little tug that Valentin never got the recognition he deserved and it was Nomar's fault. After reading through this thread, I checked them and Valentin's best bWAR (1995) was 8.5 and Nomar's (2000) was 7.4. I feel a little bit justified.

And, for the record, my other favorite SS, Rico, has a bWAR of 10.0 in 1969, the ninth best season in Red Sox history and right up there with Williams, Yaz, and Speaker.

I'll give you that Nomar had more of those peak years than Valentin and Rico but Valentin and Rico still give me the warm fuzzies. Nomar, not so much.

Off topic but John Valentin also had the remarkable anomaly of having a higher batting average than OBP in the 1999 ALDS. He had more sacrifice flies than walks. 1 to 0. Hard to do, even in a 5 game series.

On topic: Nomar is sort of like Drew Bledsoe, he brought a team up from some really dark years and was the best player on a lot of teams that just weren't good enough, and when he left, the team started racking off championships.

 

[Tudor Fever]

To my recollection Nomars last memorable hit was in Game 6 in 03. He hit either a double or triple to left center in the toilet off of Nelson or Heredia and Matsui in left picked up the ball and threw it mostly sideways, I think it ended up in Yankees dugout.

Nomar had a big game that day.

Sox with Burkett beat Messina and the Yanks in a must win Game 6 at the Toilet.

The 03 series gets lost in the memory of 04 but what a series.

For me it was his ninth inning double on 7/24/04 to set up the Mueller walkoff.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS200407240.shtml

That said, back in 2004 my perception was that his defense had become so awful that they had to get rid of him. When he returned in June of that year, the change from Pokey to him was going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

[Al Zarilla]

My grandfather died so i moved into an "apartment" below my 74 year old grandmother. I mowed shoveled paid no rent and ate the most delicious meals. We would often watch the 98-02 sox. Nan had no interest in baseball but Nomar was, lets face it, infectious. My excitement to his at bats became her excitement.
His batting ritual became "Ohh good Mr. Fussbudgets is up again!" and time and again we were rewarded with a hit, a hr and or an RBI.

I dont think Nan ever cared about a single other baseball player. But she cared about Mr. Fussbugets, and I got to enjoy him with her. And for that Nomar was Friggin Awesome.

Similar, my mother was from Italy and never learned much about American sports. One night at the dinner table, Red Sox discussion and Nomar's name came up and she said "Oh, he's terrific". Yes, Ma, yes he is!

 

[TFisNEXT]

For me it was his ninth inning double on 7/24/04 to set up the Mueller walkoff.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS200407240.shtml

That said, back in 2004 my perception was that his defense had become so awful that they had to get rid of him. When he returned in June of that year, the change from Pokey to him was going from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Yes I remember that one by Nomar as well. But 2004 just seemed strained for Nomar. He didn't look like he was enjoying the game like he always had. Most of it was probably the situation with the FO, but I'm sure the achilles injury was part of it too.

My last real vision of Nomar truly happy in Boston uniform was this image after game 5 of the 2003 ALDS.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Off topic but John Valentin also had the remarkable anomaly of having a higher batting average than OBP in the 1999 ALDS. He had more sacrifice flies than walks. 1 to 0. Hard to do, even in a 5 game series.

On topic: Nomar is sort of like Drew Bledsoe, he brought a team up from some really dark years and was the best player on a lot of teams that just weren't good enough, and when he left, the team started racking off championships.

Ouch... yeah the Bledsoe comparison is good.

 

[tims4wins]

The 1999 Red Sox had absolute peak Pedro and peak Nomar, along with some nice complementary pieces. Too bad they couldn't do more with it that year.

They came sneakily close to making that a real series with the MFY.

 

[Max Power]

They came sneakily close to making that a real series with the MFY.

"Out"

 

[jmcc5400]

They didn't have enough pitching behind Pedro but the offense was pretty damned good that season. Saberhagen was actually really good that season but he was only able to pitch 119 innings and I think he was physically done by the time the playoffs came around.

The team's ERA + that year was 126 and it wasn't all Pedro. In fact three guys on the staff - albeit in many fewer innings - had an ERA + better than Pedro's 243.

Spoiler

El Guapo (326 ERA + in 40.2 innings), Rod Beck (266 ERA + in 14 innings) and, of course, Juan Pena (742(!) ERA + in 13 innings). Saberhagen had a gaudy 171 ERA + in his 119 innings. And Pat Rapp, who I thought was terrible, posted a 122 ERA + in 146.1 innings.

The offense was actually pretty mediocre (99 OPS +). The ridiculous scoring environment in 1999 made it seem like the pitching was worse, and the offense better, than they were.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

View attachment 69160

"Out"

I kicked a door so hard in my dorm that night I needed crutches.

Fuck that fucking phantom tag.

 

[chrisfont9]

IIRC the trade also involved at least a media/fan hullabaloo around the whole 'Jeter-dives-into-the-stands-while-Nomar-refuses-to-play' event from July 1.

I don't think they win if they don't make the trade, and it still makes me feel awful that they had to do it. Nomar was a glorious and unique player. I thought he'd be in the Hall in a Red Sox uniform around now.

I think it had more to do with his pending free agency. Not remembering all the steps along the way, but he had been primed for a huge contract, only for the wrist injury and lack of power in 2004 to undermine his case. It's a bit like if Bogaerts last year, if we were all worried that some injury was about to send Bogey's production off a cliff. In 2004 they pulled the trigger. Not sure if Nomar's gloom was about his dealings with the front office or just frustration with his inability to play but because of the contract issue it was coming to a head. Pedro and Lowe were also in their walk years, Tek too I think, and at least the speculation was that not all of them would get signed? Anyway the contract part was big.

 

[TFisNEXT]

The team's ERA + that year was 126 and it wasn't all Pedro. In fact three guys on the staff - albeit in many fewer innings - had an ERA + better than Pedro's 243.

Spoiler

El Guapo (326 ERA + in 40.2 innings), Rod Beck (266 ERA + in 14 innings) and, of course, Juan Pena (742(!) ERA + in 13 innings). Saberhagen had a gaudy 171 ERA + in his 119 innings. And Pat Rapp, who I thought was terrible, posted a 122 ERA + in 146.1 innings.

The offense was actually pretty mediocre (99 OPS +). The ridiculous scoring environment in 1999 made it seem like the pitching was worse, and the offense better, than they were.

I'm surprised the offense was just league average....but yeah, that was a crazy offensive era. I do recall the bullpen being quite good in 1999, but there was still basically nobody behind Pedro in the rotation once the playoffs came around (a cooked Saberhagen aside).

I don't even want to know what the team offensive stats were in 2000 if 1999 was league average....wouldn't surprise me if it was below 90 for OPS+.

That 2000 team had a bunch of previously good hitters all crater:

Troy O'Leary cooked
Jose Offerman cooked
Mike Stanley cooked
John Valentin cooked (injury effectively ended his career, though he was already declining rapidly in 1999 despite a monster playoffs)
Jason Varitek down year
Brian Daubach down year

And the bench was just a slew of completely useless offense IIRC....a mix of cooked vets like Ed Sprague, Mike Lansing, Bernhard Gilkey, and Darren Lewis or a bunch of never-weres like Manny Alexander, Donnie Sadler, and Wilton Veras.

I guess that's how you end up sucking so bad offensively when you have a generational season from your shortstop and a monster year from your CFer (Carl Everett).

 

[ookami7m]

I kicked a door so hard in my dorm that night I needed crutches.

Fuck that fucking phantom tag.

I got so loud at my MFY fan roomate that people thought we were actually fighting instead of me just losing my shit. Worse than the Eric Gregg 9 ft wide strike zone call.

 

[TapeAndPosts]

Man, I loved Nomar. My recollection was there was some serious disagreement between him/his agent and the Sox management over the timeline and circumstances of the 2004 injury, and that turned into bad blood and blocked any extension from being signed. What's not clear to me is what role the bad actors in the media played in the rupture between club and player.

I found an old AP article from the week after he was traded.

Nomar Garciaparra has come under renewed scrutiny after a published report raised questions about when the recently traded Boston shortstop hurt his right Achilles' tendon.

Garciaparra has never wavered, saying he was injured when struck by a ball in batting practice before an exhibition game March 5 against Northeastern at Fort Myers.

The Boston Globe, citing two sources familiar with Garciaparra's case, reported Thursday that the infielder told a different story to Red Sox officials, who never contradicted his story. One source said he was told that Garciaparra was injured before spring training.

Garciaparra's agent, Arn Tellem, called the assertion ''totally, unequivocally, positively false.''

Garciaparra, a five-time All-Star, was traded to the Chicago Cubs last Saturday.

''I've heard so much made up about me, I don't even want to comment,'' Garciaparra said Thursday before the Cubs played the Colorado Rockies at Coors Field. ''I've addressed all those things. I'm here now, and that's all I'm focused on.''

Red Sox manager Terry Francona and general manager Theo Epstein declined to comment on the Globe's report Wednesday night. They said the Red Sox had agreed with Tellem the night before to halt a public dispute that centered on Garciaparra's physical condition, and why he and the team could not come to a contract agreement to keep him in Boston.

Epstein earlier had said he traded Garciaparra after the shortstop said he probably would miss significant playing time this month because of the injury. The day after the trade, Garciaparra denied saying that, and repeated his denials to Chicago reporters in Colorado.

It's honestly weird... Theo says he traded Nomar because Nomar said he wouldn't be able to play much in August (the month of the article), and Nomar denies saying that? For what it's worth, Nomar played almost every game in August... though in the long run the idea that he would not be able to be an everyday shortstop was correct.

 

[Marciano490]

The team's ERA + that year was 126 and it wasn't all Pedro. In fact three guys on the staff - albeit in many fewer innings - had an ERA + better than Pedro's 243.

Spoiler

El Guapo (326 ERA + in 40.2 innings), Rod Beck (266 ERA + in 14 innings) and, of course, Juan Pena (742(!) ERA + in 13 innings). Saberhagen had a gaudy 171 ERA + in his 119 innings. And Pat Rapp, who I thought was terrible, posted a 122 ERA + in 146.1 innings.

The offense was actually pretty mediocre (99 OPS +). The ridiculous scoring environment in 1999 made it seem like the pitching was worse, and the offense better, than they were.

Man, Guapo and Beck - there was a lot of sexiness on that team. Bloom is doing a good job drafting good looking players like Mayer and Zanatello, but we haven’t had guys who ooze the machismo of jager and Marlboro like the old teams.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I bought a used Volvo S60 from 128 Volvo in Wakefield in 2006.

On the wall of the showroom was a pic of Nomar taking delivery of a Volvo convertible from that dealership a few years beforehand.

What I'm saying is that the man had impeccable taste.

 

[TFisNEXT]

Man, I loved Nomar. My recollection was there was some serious disagreement between him/his agent and the Sox management over the timeline and circumstances of the 2004 injury, and that turned into bad blood and blocked any extension from being signed. What's not clear to me is what role the bad actors in the media played in the rupture between club and player.

I found an old AP article from the week after he was traded.



It's honestly weird... Theo says he traded Nomar because Nomar said he wouldn't be able to play much in August (the month of the article), and Nomar denies saying that? For what it's worth, Nomar played almost every game in August... though in the long run the idea that he would not be able to be an everyday shortstop was correct.

As much as it pains me to think about and admit, not signing Nomar to a 4 or 5 year extension in early 2004 was one of the better non-moves Theo ever made.

The Red Sox never really replaced him at shortstop until Xander came along, but he obviously couldn't play the position anymore after 2004.

 

[NomarsFool]

Nomar brought me back to baseball in the winter of 1997-98. I heard that the Red Sox had this shortstop who won a unanimous rookie of the year, and I started paying attention again in 1998 after taking a number of years off during the Boggs/Clemens decline years and the strike fiasco.

I think this was a big part of it for me. Nomar gave me a reason to watch the Sox again. I felt like there were so many times I saw a groundball up the middle and then from off camera Nomar would swoop in and scoop it up and make some acrobatic throw to first. When you add in the entertainment value of his at bats - the Sox were worth watching again.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I don’t think it’s that complicated; Nomar was mad at the team because they had agreed to trade him in the off-season. Then there were the veiled threats about him potentially not being available every day down the stretch, due to injury. So, they removed a distraction, and improved the “fatal flaw”, being a relatively poor defensive club.

 

[gryoung]

Having been a Sox season ticket holder for 30 years, I've seen just about anything that can happen in a ball game. Certain player strengths stand out.

For Nomar, it was his relay throw home from shallow LF on a relay. He had an absolute gun. Nobody that I saw play came close.

 

[chrisfont9]

Sox players that only need their first name to know who we're talking about:

Pedro
Ted
Papi*
Manny
Nomar

Says all you need right there.

There was actually a second Nomar over at bREF. He burned out a little prematurely too.

 

[bougrj1]

My grandfather died so i moved into an "apartment" below my 74 year old grandmother. I mowed shoveled paid no rent and ate the most delicious meals. We would often watch the 98-02 sox. Nan had no interest in baseball but Nomar was, lets face it, infectious. My excitement to his at bats became her excitement.
His batting ritual became "Ohh good Mr. Fussbudgets is up again!" and time and again we were rewarded with a hit, a hr and or an RBI.

I dont think Nan ever cared about a single other baseball player. But she cared about Mr. Fussbugets, and I got to enjoy him with her. And for that Nomar was Friggin Awesome.

Hahaha - this post brought back memories for me. My grandma was the reason I started loving the Red Sox in the first place, helping me read the sports section of the Globe when I was 4 years old. She loved Nomar but used to always yell, "quit swinging at the first pitch!"... she never bought my argument that his numbers were great when he did so.

 

[chrisfont9]

I don’t think it’s that complicated; Nomar was mad at the team because they had agreed to trade him in the off-season. Then there were the veiled threats about him potentially not being available every day down the stretch, due to injury. So, they removed a distraction, and improved the “fatal flaw”, being a relatively poor defensive club.

Ah right, the big trade that wasn't. Yeah, no doubt that was a big factor.

 

[TFisNEXT]

I talked about Nomar's last good offensive year in 2006 further up, but I had forgotten just how insanely good he was that first half-season with the Dodgers....he started the season a bit late on 4/22 (injury again), but then he was *peak Nomar* offensively through the all star break. Here was his line that first half:



303 plate appearances of 1999-2000 Nomar there.

He slumped badly to end the season as he tried to played through 2 different injuries (calf strain and oblique). But the man was a real talent with the bat when he was healthy....it's just a shame he couldn't at least stay healthy enough to play 1B or even DH for a few more productive offensive seasons.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Nomar was a complicated guy: he repeatedly professed disliking attention and fame and yet not only was a star player in a baseball-mad city (which of course meant that attention couldn't be helped), he also married the most famous American female soccer player of that generation in Mia Hamm.

He seems, in his appearances on NESN and other local places, to have mellowed considerably over time and appears far more relaxed and happy than he did back in 2003-2004. Which is of course great to see.

 

[jmcc5400]

Hahaha - this post brought back memories for me. My grandma was the reason I started loving the Red Sox in the first place, helping me read the sports section of the Globe when I was 4 years old. She loved Nomar but used to always yell, "quit swinging at the first pitch!"... she never bought my argument that his numbers were great when he did so.

When I discovered SoSH in 2000, Nomar and Pedro were each completely unimpeachable to me. I was shocked to see all the complaining in those nascent SoSh game threads about Nomar's first pitch swinging (I particularly remember Lanternjaw's refrain "Hack, hack, timberrrrrr"). I was like, the dude's hitting .370!

 

[bankshot1]

I saw Nomar (live) for the first time at Ft Myers in March 1997, pre-rookie year, he went 4-4 with a HR, two doubles, a single and a SB and wondered if this was like watching Ted in 1939. The guy was special.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

When I discovered SoSH in 2000, Nomar and Pedro were each completely unimpeachable to me. I was shocked to see all the complaining in those nascent SoSh game threads about Nomar's first pitch swinging (I particularly remember Lanternjaw's refrain "Hack, hack, timberrrrrr"). I was like, the dude's hitting .370!

There was a belief that a walk was as good as a hit. In only a few ways is that true: nobody is on second or third base. You think a few extra pitches will get rid of the good starter earlier to get to a weak middle relief bullpen. The hitter tends to have an empty SLG pct. It's safer but Nomar at the plate meant you wanted him to put the ball in play. I still also think if the hitter behind you is someone prone to double plays, or a significantly worse hitter, then trying to put the ball in play is always better (especially with a runner on 2nd or 3rd).
I think "back then" pitchers tended to throw garbage on the first pitch though hoping to get a swing and a miss to get ahead early in the count. It seems pitchers are now going right for a good first pitch challenge strike. It's what may not matter about Rafaela's plate discipline "problem" anymore. I suspect the days of super high isolated walk rates outside of BA are over.

 

[brandonchristensen]

Nomar is kind of like Pedro. Just the absolute insane highs, but longevity hurt them (obviously less so with Pedro).

But that they coincided was so awesome to watch. They were the Red Sox when Mo Vaughn and Roger left.

 

[trekfan55]

As much as it pains me to think about and admit, not signing Nomar to a 4 or 5 year extension in early 2004 was one of the better non-moves Theo ever made.

The Red Sox never really replaced him at shortstop until Xander came along, but he obviously couldn't play the position anymore after 2004.

I think Nomar was offered a 4 year 60MM extension at some point, which he rejected (not sure he made close to that post 2004). Of course his agent would reject that with the money Jeter and Arod were getting at the time, but he was not a FA.

After the almost trade in 2004, when everyone knew he was out the door if the Arod deal was finalized, and the injuries I don't think there is any way he would or should have been signed to a long term deal with the Sox regardless. His face sitting in the dugout on the infamous Jeter dives into the stands game was plastered all over the media, and this was before Youtube/Instagram/Twitter/et al.

What could have been... And that is why we do not crown players as all timers until, well, some time passes. Oh and there were chants of "we want Pokey" at some point.

Is it true he was the voice at Logan Airport welcoming travelers?

BTW he was featured in several episodes of a sitcom called "2 guys and a Girl".

 

[richgedman'sghost]

I always liked the one where Nomar dove into the water from his Charlestown condo and saved a drowning presumably drunk woman who came to in his arms in the water and asked "Are you #@&*in' Nomah?"

Se non e vero, e ben trovato.....

Ouch... yeah the Bledsoe comparison is good.

Bledsoe actually played most of the AFC Championship Game in place of an injured Brady and did get a ring. If I had a choice, I would have rather had Nomar get the ring instead of Bledsoe (not that I have anything against him) . I mean Nomar was that good and that beloved. Maybe it's the fact that Brady took over and had so much success.

 

[TFisNEXT]

I think Nomar was offered a 4 year 60MM extension at some point, which he rejected (not sure he made close to that post 2004). Of course his agent would reject that with the money Jeter and Arod were getting at the time, but he was not a FA.

After the almost trade in 2004, when everyone knew he was out the door if the Arod deal was finalized, and the injuries I don't think there is any way he would or should have been signed to a long term deal with the Sox regardless. His face sitting in the dugout on the infamous Jeter dives into the stands game was plastered all over the media, and this was before Youtube/Instagram/Twitter/et al.

What could have been... And that is why we do not crown players as all timers until, well, some time passes. Oh and there were chants of "we want Pokey" at some point.

Is it true he was the voice at Logan Airport welcoming travelers?

BTW he was featured in several episodes of a sitcom called "2 guys and a Girl".

Yes, thanks for the numbers....now that you posted them, the 4/60 offer definitely rings a bell. The extension offer was either December 2003 or January 2004 IIRC. There was no way he was going to get a monster contract once he couldn't physically play shortstop anymore....which is what the reality was for him after the achilles injury in spring 2004, even if it took a few months worth of games to fully understand that reality.

Fwiw, it looks like Nomar made about $34 million after 2004....far short of $60M. At the time, I agree it was the correct call by Nomar and his agent to bet on himself and get a monster payday after 2004, but the injury changed everything....hindsight is 20/20 I guess. Sometimes it's hard to remember he was coming off a nearly 6 WAR season in 2003 which put him only behind Arod for shortstops, so he was in line for a monster payday if that injury had never happened. He still made around 80M in his career plus whatever in his announcing career, so hopefully he's not hurting....but there's no doubt that was an expensive injury.

 

[Myt1]

Nomar was great. He and Cam Neely are my two Boston sports “what ifs” (well, also if Hagler fought Leonard earlier or again).

Or just had judges who didn’t blow goats.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

Cy
Dice-K

Yaz

 

[Ale Xander]

Wilfredo
Ugueth
Izzy

(not for good reasons)

for good reasons:
Pokey

 

[jmcc5400]

Wilfredo
Ugueth
Izzy

(not for good reasons)

for good reasons:
Pokey

Koji!

 

[SumnerH]

Yaz

True, though uniquely recognizable last names are a lot easier.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Koji!

Rico.

 

[TFisNEXT]

Koji!

Hanley (even though his best days were down in Florida)

 

[BaseballJones]

Nomar is kind of like Pedro. Just the absolute insane highs, but longevity hurt them (obviously less so with Pedro).

But that they coincided was so awesome to watch. They were the Red Sox when Mo Vaughn and Roger left.

That raises an interesting question. What's the very best hitter/pitcher combo have the Red Sox have ever had, using those years with the Sox (for example, 1939 with Jimmy Foxx and Lefty Grove was awesome, but you have to go with 1939 Grove, and not 1931 Grove when he was with the A's).

Here are some candidates (there are more, I'm sure):

1912 - Speaker/Wood

1939 - Foxx/Grove

1947 - Williams/Dobson

1967 - Yaz/Lonborg

1978 - Rice/Eck

1986 - Boggs/Clemens

1999 - Nomar/Pedro

2004 - Manny/Schilling

2007 - Ortiz/Beckett

2018 - Mookie/Sale