Kemba 2021: The Jour-knee Begins

BigSoxFan

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It may be ugly, but I wonder if having him play the role that Tatum played last year as the single starter on the floor with the bench guys (or coming in with the bench guys), might be the best solution? That second unit is pretty much full of guys who can't or couldn't shoot, so letting Kemba bomb away and hopefully find his stroke might not be that bad. At least it isn't taking shots away from JB/JT.

His game is crap right now, completely agree. The question is, what's the best path to getting something useful out of him? Is it to have him switch to a reduced role or to have him try and shoot through it?
The consensus here, which I would agree with, is as a primary scoring option off the bench. You limit the wear and tear and let him look for his shot without having to worry about disrupting the Jay's offense as much. I doubt he would be cool with being relegated to the bench but at this point I don't really care. If this version of Kemba persists, a change simply has to be made.
 

TripleOT

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The Celtics were 8-3 and on a 5 game winning streak when Kemba entered the lineup. They are 5-10 since then, including 4-8 when Kemba isn’t load managing. He is -46 over those 12 games, including only 4 plus games all season FWIW.

The “Kemba dribble the ball to death at the top while trying to use multiple picks and fire a three or get blocked at the rim, while JB and JT stand around” offense, along with the lousy defense, has put this team into a funk.

Brad needs to get this ship righted.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The Celtics were 8-3 and on a 5 game winning streak when Kemba entered the lineup. They are 5-10 since then, including 4-8 when Kemba isn’t load managing. He is -46 over those 12 games, including only 4 plus games all season FWIW.

The “Kemba dribble the ball to death at the top while trying to use multiple picks and fire a three or get blocked at the rim, while JB and JT stand around” offense, along with the lousy defense, has put this team into a funk.

Brad needs to get this ship righted.
Meh, I’d say this team is missing Smart more than suffering with Kemba as we are struggling to replace Smart with high quality minutes at his position. Despite Kenna’s shooting woes the team is not better with Teague/Edwards/Waters getting more minutes or with Pritchard playing against 1st unit PGs.
 
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scottyno

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The Celtics were 8-3 and on a 5 game winning streak when Kemba entered the lineup. They are 5-10 since then, including 4-8 when Kemba isn’t load managing. He is -46 over those 12 games, including only 4 plus games all season FWIW.

The “Kemba dribble the ball to death at the top while trying to use multiple picks and fire a three or get blocked at the rim, while JB and JT stand around” offense, along with the lousy defense, has put this team into a funk.

Brad needs to get this ship righted.
JB and JT aren't losing shots to Kemba, they just aren't making the shots that they made most of the year
 

JakeRae

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Kemba is not the problem. He hasn’t been himself yet, but he still has graded out as a net positive on RAPTOR or a modest negative by RPM. BPM also has him right around average so far. Statistically, setting aside 2P%, he’s also been fine. His rebounding, passing, steals, 3P%, turnovers, etc. are all consistent with career norms. The average distance of his shots is also exactly the same as last year.

On 2s, Kemba is also, contrary to popular belief, finishing fine at the rim. What he’s not doing is getting there, and he’s also shooting poorly in the 10-three range, but that is likely just a sample size issues since his threes and FT are fine.

For his career, Kemba takes about 25% of his shots at the rim. Last year he was at 20%. This year 10%. He’s also taking 17% of his shots from 3-10 instead of his historical average of 10% and has seen upticks in long 2s. The result has been a lot of misses in traffic in the lane, shots Kemba, and this is important, has always been bad at. He’s .326 for his career from 3-10, was .273 last year, and is .250 this year. There’s an open question here on whether he’s taking those 3-10 shots because he can’t get to the rim or if he’s still just figuring it out. I also wonder how much our general flow issues are creating problems for him. Kemba seems like he’s been getting by his guy a lot to find a stacked lane and getting stuck. I’m not sure that’s an athleticism problem or an issue of the team needing more ball movement to create more open space, but I’d lean toward it being more the latter.

Put differently, I think people have rushed to judgment on Kemba. He might be entering a bad decline, but I see a lot more the same Kemba who struggled a bit to find his shooting touch but has also really struggled with the fact that our stagnant offense has let teams jam the lane. I’m still expecting him to be the guy who was a perennial all star the last 4 years once the team gets right.
 

lovegtm

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Kemba is looking more and more like, if he's managed correctly, he can be himself from deep and midrange when he gets his rhythm, and probably won't get to the paint in the same way.

Given that Tatum's contract doesn't kick in until next year, they could go with something like this:
- keep Kemba through the season, since it's going to be really hard to upgrade offensively from him, and the tax isn't a huge factor yet
- try to acquire a player making up to ~$20M, sending out TT if necessary to stay under the tax and avoid repeater. If a good enough player is available, you go up to the hard cap this year
- in the offseason, re-sign whomever you acquired (if applicable, RFAs etc), or make a big TPE S&T, giving up some assets.

The gamble here is that Kemba, in the right role and with minutes management, looks good enough in the playoffs that the Knicks or similar are down to make a 1-2 year bet on him.

The team has to gamble a bit given the shittiness of how his health situation, and this path looks the most reasonable to me. You keep offensive production and give yourself the best chance to dump Kemba in a neutral-asset deal, while only doing that if you are indeed able to find someone to replace a good part of his salary slot. If Kemba is a negative asset at that point, the price for getting rid of 1-2 years isn't *terrible*, and is lower than 1.5-2.5 years.
 

benhogan

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Kemba is looking more and more like, if he's managed correctly, he can be himself from deep and midrange when he gets his rhythm, and probably won't get to the paint in the same way.

Given that Tatum's contract doesn't kick in until next year, they could go with something like this:
- keep Kemba through the season, since it's going to be really hard to upgrade offensively from him, and the tax isn't a huge factor yet
- try to acquire a player making up to ~$20M, sending out TT if necessary to stay under the tax and avoid repeater. If a good enough player is available, you go up to the hard cap this year
- in the offseason, re-sign whomever you acquired (if applicable, RFAs etc), or make a big TPE S&T, giving up some assets.

The gamble here is that Kemba, in the right role and with minutes management, looks good enough in the playoffs that the Knicks or similar are down to make a 1-2 year bet on him.

The team has to gamble a bit given the shittiness of how his health situation, and this path looks the most reasonable to me. You keep offensive production and give yourself the best chance to dump Kemba in a neutral-asset deal, while only doing that if you are indeed able to find someone to replace a good part of his salary slot. If Kemba is a negative asset at that point, the price for getting rid of 1-2 years isn't *terrible*, and is lower than 1.5-2.5 years.
Hopefully, this is exactly the plan. Handle Kemba very carefully the rest of this season, 34 minutes is really pushing it.

Last night's game couldn't have gone any better with TT getting dunks on littles, that will bump his FG%.

If Danny can get out with minimal damage I'll be perfectly fine with a bridge year.
 

lovegtm

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Hopefully, this is exactly the plan. Handle Kemba very carefully the rest of this season, 34 minutes is really pushing it.

Last night's game couldn't have gone any better with TT getting dunks on littles, that will bump his FG%.

If Danny can get out with minimal damage I'll be perfectly fine with a bridge year.
It’s not so much a bridge year as much as it is that you can sort of cheat and acquire someone expensive this year and have both him and Kemba for the playoffs.

I know the cool thing here is to give up after ~30 games, but this team should be going for it imo. It’s important to be realistic about championship odds, but the Celtics are in that low-but-still-possible end where you should avoid bridge years.
 

Kliq

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It’s not so much a bridge year as much as it is that you can sort of cheat and acquire someone expensive this year and have both him and Kemba for the playoffs.

I know the cool thing here is to give up after ~30 games, but this team should be going for it imo. It’s important to be realistic about championship odds, but the Celtics are in that low-but-still-possible end where you should avoid bridge years.
It also has to be viewed that the East looks very winnable this season. Milwaukee is struggling, Brooklyn can't hold teams under 130 points, Toronto and Miami appear to be significantly worse. Only Philly is really off to a great start, but the Celtics have historically owned them and while they did drop two close games to them earlier this season, they did not have Tatum in either game. The Celtics are very much still alive to make the Finals.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Once again, if you can add a + 2-3 "win" player (denominated in the metric of your choosing) to Tatum, Brown, Walker and Smart and this team is a contender right now. I know that is hard to believe but the math works.


To be clear, its not a guarantee and this hypothetical player is just that at this point - they do not really exist because we don't know if they are available or their cost. Its simply to illustrate that they may be closer than people think, especially if some of Walkers struggles are just rust/conditioning related.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Once again, if you can add a + 2-3 "win" player (denominated in the metric of your choosing) to Tatum, Brown, Walker and Smart and this team is a contender right now. I know that is hard to believe but the math works.


To be clear, its not a guarantee and this hypothetical player is just that at this point - they do not really exist because we don't know if they are available or their cost. Its simply to illustrate that they may be closer than people think, especially if some of Walkers struggles are just rust/conditioning related.
Yeah, one player has a huge knockdown effect. The team has been one player short all year. They never replaced Hayward... with anyone. It doesn't have to be someone of Hayward's caliber but they still needed a rotation wing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah, one player has a huge knockdown effect. The team has been one player short all year. They never replaced Hayward... with anyone. It doesn't have to be someone of Hayward's caliber but they still needed a rotation wing.
A rotation player won't be the answer imo. They need more. And given that this is the Kemba knee thread, it probably behooves them to go after that player now while its still functioning.
 

lovegtm

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Agree, given that a competent starter probably has them in the Finals last year with this version of Kemba and the same roster (probably improved with TT+PP tbh). Anyone who thinks they’ve somehow gotten way worse hasn’t paid attention to how weird this year is through the whole East.

The type of player they need is usually available at the deadline for 1-2 low firsts and a ~12-18M salary. The trick this year is that the play-in seems to have fewer teams wanting to be sellers.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Agree, given that a competent starter probably has them in the Finals last year with this version of Kemba and the same roster (probably improved with TT+PP tbh). Anyone who thinks they’ve somehow gotten way worse hasn’t paid attention to how weird this year is through the whole East.

The type of player they need is usually available at the deadline for 1-2 low firsts and a ~12-18M salary. The trick this year is that the play-in seems to have fewer teams wanting to be sellers.
The other trick is the Celtics aren't necessarily looking for a rental.

For the people who think the C's can't compete, they really are underselling the impact 1 player has... even though they know the impact one player has. You don't need to be LeBron James to add significant value when Semi, Grant, Teague, Green, Edwards, Waters and Fall have played
28% of the team's total minutes. Add in another 500 minutes from "the 2 big" lineup and the situation is worse, though all 3 are competent players so it's not their fault the roster is poorly constructed. Of course, if you add 1 30 minute wing, the roster is perfectly fine and you replace close to half the minutes Semi and Friends have been playing. Add in 20 a night from Nesmith and with 2 players, you've replaced over 70% of Semi and Friends play. That leaves bout 20 minutes a night from that group to play, rather than the 70 they have been playing. Semi isn't even really that bad a player and I'd be totally fine with giving him the majority of the left over minutes. Unfortunately for him, he's in the Brad Wanamaker overexposed role of last year.

Of course, if you added that 30 minute wing and got 20 a night from Nesmith... it might cause Brad to use the 2 big lineup less which would mean less TT and more minutes to develop players like Romeo and Grant.

That 70% of minutes replaced with superior minutes is worth a ton.

Maybe the people who want to give up on the season aren't aware exactly just how many minutes have gone to Semi or players worse than Semi. If you did add the 500 minutes from the big lineup, you are talking about 35% of the team's minutes. 35! When Jaylen, Jayson and Smart are healthy and all playing, they make up for about 42%. It's 17 minutes at every position at Semi Replacement Value or Below Semi Replacement value.

With Added Wing + Playable Nesmith, the Semi and friends + two big lineup makes up 14.5% of the minutes. On the average night Tatum plays, he makes up for 14.7%. It's 7 minutes at every position at SRV or BSRV. Far more manageable.

A starting caliber player (Top 120-150) in the NBA makes such a huge difference because they are playing anywhere from 12.5-15% of the total minutes.
 

128

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Agree, given that a competent starter probably has them in the Finals last year with this version of Kemba and the same roster (probably improved with TT+PP tbh). Anyone who thinks they’ve somehow gotten way worse hasn’t paid attention to how weird this year is through the whole East.

The type of player they need is usually available at the deadline for 1-2 low firsts and a ~12-18M salary. The trick this year is that the play-in seems to have fewer teams wanting to be sellers.
The whole play-in factor is interesting. Should getting the No. 8 seed in the West, for example, really be the overriding goal for the teams in that tier, given the likelihood of a first-round drubbing at the hands of the Lakers, Jazz or Clippers?

I realize, as we saw last year with Miami's upset of Milwaukee, that upsets do occur, but the odds against a No. 8 seed having an extended stays in the playoffs are long.
 

JakeRae

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The other trick is the Celtics aren't necessarily looking for a rental.

For the people who think the C's can't compete, they really are underselling the impact 1 player has... even though they know the impact one player has. You don't need to be LeBron James to add significant value when Semi, Grant, Teague, Green, Edwards, Waters and Fall have played
28% of the team's total minutes. Add in another 500 minutes from "the 2 big" lineup and the situation is worse, though all 3 are competent players so it's not their fault the roster is poorly constructed. Of course, if you add 1 30 minute wing, the roster is perfectly fine and you replace close to half the minutes Semi and Friends have been playing. Add in 20 a night from Nesmith and with 2 players, you've replaced over 70% of Semi and Friends play. That leaves bout 20 minutes a night from that group to play, rather than the 70 they have been playing. Semi isn't even really that bad a player and I'd be totally fine with giving him the majority of the left over minutes. Unfortunately for him, he's in the Brad Wanamaker overexposed role of last year.

Of course, if you added that 30 minute wing and got 20 a night from Nesmith... it might cause Brad to use the 2 big lineup less which would mean less TT and more minutes to develop players like Romeo and Grant.

That 70% of minutes replaced with superior minutes is worth a ton.

Maybe the people who want to give up on the season aren't aware exactly just how many minutes have gone to Semi or players worse than Semi. If you did add the 500 minutes from the big lineup, you are talking about 35% of the team's minutes. 35! When Jaylen, Jayson and Smart are healthy and all playing, they make up for about 42%. It's 17 minutes at every position at Semi Replacement Value or Below Semi Replacement value.

With Added Wing + Playable Nesmith, the Semi and friends + two big lineup makes up 14.5% of the minutes. On the average night Tatum plays, he makes up for 14.7%. It's 7 minutes at every position at SRV or BSRV. Far more manageable.

A starting caliber player (Top 120-150) in the NBA makes such a huge difference because they are playing anywhere from 12.5-15% of the total minutes.
I’m in general agreement here, but also find this post confusing because it seems to conflate minutes actually played so far and minutes a healthy team would play. Of course, part of our problem this year is that teams frequently are not fully healthy and we have no wing depth so missed games at the wing (and really anywhere other than the 5) are a big problem for us. That said, our healthy lineup currently looks like the below (the mpg aren’t intended as averages but what a starter will play in a contested game; actual per game average would be a bit lower for the top 3-4 guys).

Kemba: 34 mpg
Smart: 35 mpg
Tatum: 37 mpg
Brown: 35 mpg
Theis/Thompson/Timelord: 48 mpg
Pritchard: 20 mpg

Remaining: 31 mpg

Those remaining minutes currently go to Semi/Grant/Romeo/Nesmith in some combination. In reality, most games one of the above isn’t playing and unless it’s a center, this group is looking at 50+ minutes.

At 31 mpg, there’s a perfect opportunity to add a quality wing and fill out the playoff rotation so that the young wings are relegated to deep bench and injury roles. The other silver lining here is that at full health and playoff minutes, this need might drop to 20 or so mpg, which we can probably make work. As we currently stand, the regular season math where we’re asking for 50+ mpg from this group on a nightly basis is a big problem, but the good news is the playoff math is a lot less bad.
 
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JakeRae

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Also, not saying I find this terribly meaningful given sample size, but RAPTOR now rates Kemba as having the second best season on the team behind only Tatum (WAR, not wins). Unsurprisingly, no one on the team is playing at the level we need 1 or 2 guys to get to (5+ WAR) if we want to be a true contender, but there are still lots of reasons to be optimistic about Kemba and about this team.
 

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I’m in general agreement here, but also find this post confusing because it seems to conflate minutes actually played so far and minutes a healthy team would play. Of course, part of our problem this year is that teams frequently are not fully healthy and we have no wing depth so missed games at the wing (and really anywhere other than the 5) are a big problem for us. That said, our healthy lineup currently looks like the below (the mpg aren’t intended as averages but what a starter will play in a contested game; actual per game average would be a bit lower for the top 3-4 guys).

Kemba: 34 mpg
Smart: 35 mpg
Tatum: 37 mpg
Brown: 35 mpg
Theis/Thompson/Timelord: 48 mpg
Thompson: 20 mpg
Pritchard: 20 mpg

Remaining: 31 mpg

Those remaining minutes currently go to Semi/Grant/Romeo/Nesmith in some combination. In reality, most games one of the above isn’t playing and unless it’s a center, this group is looking at 50+ minutes.

At 31 mpg, there’s a perfect opportunity to add a quality wing and fill out the playoff rotation so that the young wings are relegated to deep bench and injury roles. The other silver lining here is that at full health and playoff minutes, this need might drop to 20 or so mpg, which we can probably make work. As we currently stand, the regular season math where we’re asking for 50+ mpg from this group on a nightly basis is a big problem, but the good news is the playoff math is a lot less bad.
It looks like you are double-counting TT. If so, that leaves 51mpg for that final tier of GW/AN/SO/JTe. Which is pretty much in line with what others are saying.
 

pjheff

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The team has been one player short all year. They never replaced Hayward... with anyone.
And then that roster has played short handed — Kemba at the beginning (and still on back-to-backs) with the knee, Tatum in the middle due to COVID, Smart currently nursing a calf — ever since. It’s hard enough to win when you only have four, maybe five above-average players on the team. It’s harder still when one or two of them is unavailable.
 

JakeRae

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It looks like you are double-counting TT. If so, that leaves 51mpg for that final tier of GW/AN/SO/JTe. Which is pretty much in line with what others are saying.
I had made a formatting change and forgot to delete his entry. The 31 mpg is accurate and I edited my post to remove the extraneous Thompson entry.
 

lexrageorge

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Apparently we aren't the only ones not fond of KW's contract as Rik Boucher (on Colin Cowherd's podcast) says that DA "tried like hell" to move KW, so much so that he ticked other GMs off. https://nesn.com/2021/02/nba-rumors-danny-ainge-tried-like-hell-to-trade-kemba-walker/

Wonder how this news will be received by players.
I have difficulty believe that players will react that strongly to statements made by a random sports media type where the headline is "NBA rumors". And Boucher gives up a lot of credibility when he claims that GMs got "ticked off"; GMs are always calling other teams about players, and GMs expect to receive those calls.
 

BigSoxFan

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I have difficulty believe that players will react that strongly to statements made by a random sports media type where the headline is "NBA rumors". And Boucher gives up a lot of credibility when he claims that GMs got "ticked off"; GMs are always calling other teams about players, and GMs expect to receive those calls.
Maybe he kept calling during dinner...?
 

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I can believe DA was insistent that Kemba's knee is going to be fine, like he apparently was about Thomas's hip, and other GMs weren't having it.

But regardless, yeah, this isn't much of a story.
 

DGreenwood

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Danny was pretty open in the media that we weren't sure about Kemba's knee and that this year would tell us a lot. I don't think he was saying that in the media and then trying to convince GMs that it was going to be fine.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I have difficulty believe that players will react that strongly to statements made by a random sports media type where the headline is "NBA rumors". And Boucher gives up a lot of credibility when he claims that GMs got "ticked off"; GMs are always calling other teams about players, and GMs expect to receive those calls.
Assuming you’re talking about Ric Bucher, he’s a sh*t-stirring charlatan who never had any credibility to begin with. Among the countless fistfuls of crap he’s thrown against the wall: his insistence that KD to the Knicks was a “done deal.” His sh*tty journalism would go down easier if he didn’t also come off as such an obnoxious, self-serving gasbag. He always seems like he has an axe to grind. And he looks like Jesse Plemons’ inbred older brother.

Chris Boucher, on the other hand, seems like a lovely person who is highly credible. :)
 

Kliq

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Assuming you’re talking about Ric Bucher, he’s a sh*t-stirring charlatan who never had any credibility to begin with. Among the countless fistfuls of crap he’s thrown against the wall: his insistence that KD to the Knicks was a “done deal.” His sh*tty journalism would go down easier if he didn’t also come off as such an obnoxious, self-serving gasbag. He always seems like he has an axe to grind. And he looks like Jesse Plemons’ inbred older brother.

Chris Boucher, on the other hand, seems like a lovely person who is highly credible. :)
How come the Warriors didn't keep Boucher around? He seemed like the exact kind of player they would have wanted as a C; in hindsight they let him go for nothing and paid Looney, who can't stay healthy and is pretty limited.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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How come the Warriors didn't keep Boucher around? He seemed like the exact kind of player they would have wanted as a C; in hindsight they let him go for nothing and paid Looney, who can't stay healthy and is pretty limited.
Boucher looked terrible in his time with the Warriors - he was a two way player but only one of those directions worked. Credit to him for working his way into an NBA rotation job.
 

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Assuming you’re talking about Ric Bucher, he’s a sh*t-stirring charlatan who never had any credibility to begin with. Among the countless fistfuls of crap he’s thrown against the wall: his insistence that KD to the Knicks was a “done deal.” His sh*tty journalism would go down easier if he didn’t also come off as such an obnoxious, self-serving gasbag. He always seems like he has an axe to grind. And he looks like Jesse Plemons’ inbred older brother.

Chris Boucher, on the other hand, seems like a lovely person who is highly credible. :)
Yeah that story had me at "Cowherd", nevermind the other asshat.
 

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That seems like a woefully thin return for Dallas. What is the story on Porzingis? Seems weird to even consider this.
He gets paid a lot of money is a solid offensive player and turns their defense into an absolute disaster every time he's on the court (123.7 DRtg and a sexy -8.7 per hundred).
 

nighthob

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That seems like a woefully thin return for Dallas. What is the story on Porzingis? Seems weird to even consider this.
His days of chasing people around on the perimeter are rapidly ending. He’s better used as a stretch 5 these days. I don’t blame them for trying to get out of that deal now where the odds of dumping the deal are better.
 

nighthob

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He gets paid a lot of money is a solid offensive player and turns their defense into an absolute disaster every time he's on the court (123.7 DRtg and a sexy -8.7 per hundred).
Yeah, despite the scoring the Mavs would be better off with a F that can play D, and they can’t get that guy trading Max Kleber. They’re handing the Knicks a lottery pick this year.

I’m not sure Boston’s the best trade partner for them unless the Cs were just taking ‘Zingas into the TPE for draft picks. But Boston would need to find a way to turn some of their centers into another F. And they’d still be stuck with Kemba’s deal.
 

BigSoxFan

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He gets paid a lot of money is a solid offensive player and turns their defense into an absolute disaster every time he's on the court (123.7 DRtg and a sexy -8.7 per hundred).
Wow. I was not aware of that. I still probably do it because I'm so bearish on Kemba's next 2+ years but would make me think.
 

nighthob

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Wow. I was not aware of that. I still probably do it because I'm so bearish on Kemba's next 2+ years but would make me think.
If Timelord had enough value to be cashed in for a F it might be worth the while. But he’d have to have a lot of value to make it worth while to take on an extra year of max salary for a bad defensive player while handing away a bunch of draft picks.
 

Sam Ray Not

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How come the Warriors didn't keep Boucher around? He seemed like the exact kind of player they would have wanted as a C; in hindsight they let him go for nothing and paid Looney, who can't stay healthy and is pretty limited.
It’s a bit off-topic from from Kemba ... but yeah, DeJesus basically nailed it: he didn’t look much like an NBA player in his brief stint in GS. His roster spot competition at the time was not just Looney (whom Kerr has always loved, when he’s been able to stay on the court) but also his fellow Oregon Duck Jordan Bell, who seemed like the more complete player and better athlete, with more upside since he was a couple years younger (Boucher, now 28, was old for a development project). I’m a horrible judge of young prospects, but definitely saw much more in Bell at the time. Boucher struck me as a bit of a stiff, with only two real dimensions: shotblocking and shooting the three. Kinda reminded me of a shorter, more mobile Manute Bol. Bell by contrast seemed like a baller, both to me and (apparently) the GSW brass.

Turned out Bell actually had zero NBA-level dimensions (other than high-level swag moves like flirting with Donovan Mitchell’s girl), whereas Boucher’s two NBA dimensions are both killer. In retrospect, Boucher, who was destitute and homeless growing up, seems to have been much more focused on basketball than LL Cool Jordan. Which is maybe something the brass should have foreseen, but hindsight is 20:20...

Definitely a painful whiff, tho. I’d probably take Boucher right now over Looney, Paschall, or Chriss.
 
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BigSoxFan

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If Timelord had enough value to be cashed in for a F it might be worth the while. But he’d have to have a lot of value to make it worth while to take on an extra year of max salary for a bad defensive player while handing away a bunch of draft picks.
Yeah, and he also isn't Cal Ripken from a durability standpoint. What is Zinger's defensive issue? Is he not able to move laterally anymore, out of position too much, biting on pump fakes? Curious to know since I haven't really watched him this year.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, and he also isn't Cal Ripken from a durability standpoint. What is Zinger's defensive issue? Is he not able to move laterally anymore, out of position too much, biting on pump fakes? Curious to know since I haven't really watched him this year.
I've only seen a few Mavs games, but this gets into it:
https://theathletic.com/2373293/2021/02/16/draymond-green-kristaps-porzingis-analytics-nba/Basically it's everything. His athleticism doesn't look the same, he's not making good decisions, and his effort looks.... not great

His days of chasing people around on the perimeter are rapidly ending. He’s better used as a stretch 5 these days. I don’t blame them for trying to get out of that deal now where the odds of dumping the deal are better.
It's not just the perimeter. He's been awful as a 5 on D, in fact he's better with another big. Part of that is WCS is a good defender, but also... he's just not good at anything right now, so having someone to help at the rim when he gets toasted by PFs helps more than him getting abused by 5s and not protecting the rim against drivers.
 

nighthob

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It's not just the perimeter. He's been awful as a 5 on D, in fact he's better with another big. Part of that is WCS is a good defender, but also... he's just not good at anything right now, so having someone to help at the rim when he gets toasted by PFs helps more than him getting abused by 5s and not protecting the rim against drivers.
Yeah, I wouldn’t want Boston taking on that max deal. He really needs to be playing the 5 with a great defensive F protecting him. Dallas is sort of screwed because they don’t even have the firsts to trade to entice someone to take on the contract. Honestly Walker for ‘Zingas is probably equal value. They’re both pretty one dimensional players these days.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, I wouldn’t want Boston taking on that max deal. He really needs to be playing the 5 with a great defensive F protecting him. Dallas is sort of screwed because they don’t even have the firsts to trade to entice someone to take on the contract. Honestly Walker for ‘Zingas is probably equal value. They’re both pretty one dimensional players these days.
haven't watched many Mavs games this year, but maybe Carlisle can hide Zingas in the backline of a zone?

heck Carlisle zoned Dirk and JJ to a Championship against Prime Bron & the Heatles
 

nighthob

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haven't watched many Mavs games this year, but maybe Carlisle can hide Zingas in the backline of a zone?
He’s 7’3” with a laundry list of injures and was last really healthy his second year. Dallas is probably stuck with him due to the contract (he has approximately 3/102 left after this season), because I can’t imagine getting anything more than salary relief at this point.
 

lovegtm

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It's nice to see that at least some of Kemba's issues were timing/rust/feel and not his knee. He is looking more comfortable getting his body into bigs at the right time, deciding when to take it all the way vs pulling up or passing, etc.

The best path now is probably to ride out the year managing him carefully, and hope you can move him in the summer as a neutral or mildly positive asset with that 1+1 remaining.
 

benhogan

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It's nice to see that at least some of Kemba's issues were timing/rust/feel and not his knee. He is looking more comfortable getting his body into bigs at the right time, deciding when to take it all the way vs pulling up or passing, etc.

The best path now is probably to ride out the year managing him carefully, and hope you can move him in the summer as a neutral or mildly positive asset with that 1+1 remaining.
I wouldn't mind Brad "load managing" Brown/Tatum and giving the keys to Charlotte Kemba. Just live with the results. That may pump Kemba's scoring average up and make him moveable this Summer.
 

lovegtm

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I wouldn't mind Brad "load managing" Brown/Tatum and giving the keys to Charlotte Kemba. Just live with the results. That may pump Kemba's scoring average up and make him moveable this Summer.
Yeah, the problem there is that that doesn't optimize Kemba's health, which is the other key variable in making him moveable.