I think Horford still has enough left in the tank to be a useful piece, and his game would complement the Jays well. No thanks to the rest of that list.
Is Porzingis? I'm not so sure, if that's producing at high levels, then Kemba just produced at a high level this regular season. Most metrics would put them similar (except Raptor which thinks Kemba is much better than Porzingis).Porzingis and Westbrook are both producing at high levels. I woudlnt include them in this group at all.
Porzingis was very good in a couple of these Clipper games. His presence alone and ability to stretch the floor forces defenses to account for him. He’s about 10x more valuable to the Mavericks as their 2nd/3rd most important player than Kemba would be.Is Porzingis? I'm not so sure, if that's producing at high levels, then Kemba just produced at a high level this regular season. Most metrics would put them similar (except Raptor which thinks Kemba is much better than Porzingis).
Porzingis' advantage is he's younger, Kemba's is that his deal is shorter.
Porzingis might not be a straight swap, but he's in the range of guys that Kemba and a small/moderate piece gets you a conversation at least.
That might be a fit thing, but as a player.... Porzingis's deal is bad, it's as bad as Kemba's. That DAL might prefer his bad deal to Kemba's is fine, but it doesn't change his overall value.Porzingis was very good in a couple of these Clipper games. His presence alone and ability to stretch the floor forces defenses to account for him. He’s about 10x more valuable to the Mavericks as their 2nd/3rd most important player than Kemba would be.
I disagree. There are teams who would value Porzingis as a player to fill a major hole in their lineup. Multiple teams approached Cuban at the deadline and he flat out shut down the rumors by saying he wasn’t trading him. I don’t expect anyone to value Kemba in this manner or Danny to ever publicly respond the way Cuban did.That might be a fit thing, but as a player.... Porzingis's deal is bad, it's as bad as Kemba's. That DAL might prefer his bad deal to Kemba's is fine, but it doesn't change his overall value.
2019 Kemba would be just fine on this team, but I have to imagine that ship has permanently sailed. He was aggressively load managed all year long and his knee still crapped out in the first round. His best bet going forward is to be a 20-25 minute guy off the bench who might get hot every once in a while. His days of being a #1 - #3 scoring option on a good team are long gone.I've loved Kemba from his college days. But it appears that maybe he's really the kind of guy that's really better as a #1 option on a bad team rather than a good asset on a championship team.
I think it is close enough to be worth asking, but tend to agree Dallas (and most teams) would value Porzingis enough more that it is not likely a deal would happen. I also think the planning assumption for Celtics would be Kemba plus 1-2 reasonable assets anyway.I disagree. There are teams who would value Porzingis as a player to fill a major hole in their lineup. Multiple teams approached Cuban at the deadline and he flat out shut down the rumors by saying he wasn’t trading him. I don’t expect anyone to value Kemba in this manner or Danny to ever publicly respond the way Cuban did.
I don't really think this. I think he's just not ever going to be fully healthy again. Kemba's first season pre-ASB he was phenomenal, and exactly what we needed.I've loved Kemba from his college days. But it appears that maybe he's really the kind of guy that's really better as a #1 option on a bad team rather than a good asset on a championship team.
I've loved Kemba from his college days. But it appears that maybe he's really the kind of guy that's really better as a #1 option on a bad team rather than a good asset on a championship team.
I thinbk you are both right. Baseball Jones is right about now and Cellar-door is right about his 1st year. That team was rolling, and Kemba was great. Kemba won at least one game almosy by himself in the raptors series last year too. I just doubt he is ever healthy enough to be as good as he was.I don't really think this. I think he's just not ever going to be fully healthy again. Kemba's first season pre-ASB he was phenomenal, and exactly what we needed.
I think you’ve got the timeline of this wrong. There were a lot of rumors that Dallas was trying to move KP (not that teams were trying to acquire him) and Cuban responded to those rumors.I disagree. There are teams who would value Porzingis as a player to fill a major hole in their lineup. Multiple teams approached Cuban at the deadline and he flat out shut down the rumors by saying he wasn’t trading him. I don’t expect anyone to value Kemba in this manner or Danny to ever publicly respond the way Cuban did.
I don't know that Boston would be the one adding more. KP has one extra year on his contract as compared to Kemba, and given his body type, is probably likely to be oft-injured through the next 3 years. He also can't handle being Luka's sidekick; I'm not sure how well he's going to handle being the 3rd wheel to the Jays.I think you’ve got the timeline of this wrong. There were a lot of rumors that Dallas was trying to move KP (not that teams were trying to acquire him) and Cuban responded to those rumors.
From the things I’ve heard on basketball pods (Russillo, Simmons and I believe KOC) have mentioned that the Mavs would like to trade KP.
I think Kemba for Porzingis is an interesting start but Boston would have to add more to the deal and I’m not sure I’m giving up a lot more for KP
Hunted relentlessly for good reason.Interesting to see the (obviously SSS) postseason TPA stats.
Tatum and Timelord not surprisingly come out well.
Poor Kemba.
If being the operative word here. Especially w/re to bolded. If Kemba puts those numbers up, 3/75 is pretty much a given. I think folks don’t know how much demand >>> supply for even above-average talent in the NBA.If Kemba had a year like this one: 70 GP, 19/4/5 slash line 36-38% from 3.... there's probably at minimum a 3/75 deal out there for him right?
I was a Malik Beasley fan but I want no part of that. He's on video pointing an assault rifle at his infant son.Would Minnesota be looking to get rid of Malik Beasley, who had some legal issues? Beasley (3/$46m) and Rubio ($17m expiring) for Kemba, a young (non-TL) player, and the 16th pick?
I hear where you’re coming from (I.e. people underestimate how likely someone will opt out), but at this moment I would be borderline shocked by that result.One thing I was thinking about looking at some recent contract history.....
I still think there's a pretty significant (30-40%) chance Kemba opts out of the last year of his deal if he's relatively healthy next year. THe last 3-5 years is littered with guys that people said "oh he'll never opt out of that big $ year" who then opted out for more years at less money. If Kemba had a year like this one: 70 GP, 19/4/5 slash line 36-38% from 3.... there's probably at minimum a 3/75 deal out there for him right?
Blake's production tanked though. That's the thing about Kemba... his production has been fine when he's on the court. If he stays on the court next year and plays similarly he'll get paid. I mean, Chris Paul broke down in the playoffs several years in a row, was the same size as Kemba and older... he got a full max. Yes he was better, but the point is... Kemba's numbers suggest a guy who gets PAID, age/injury risk may cause a reduction, but if he can stay on the court he'll get some offers that have to make him at least think about it.I hear where you’re coming from (I.e. people underestimate how likely someone will opt out), but at this moment I would be borderline shocked by that result.
He has been injured/useless the last 2 playoffs, this time after serious load management. He’s short, on the wrong side of 30, relies on his quickness, and has a degenerative knee.
If forced to pick right now between 3/75 or some mid level exception in 2021-2022, I would bet on the mid level. Or potentially not even that. What is Blake Griffin going to get next season?
Of course we have a lot of data points between now and then, but if Kemba is in consideration for a 3/75M contract starting 2021-2022, that’s amazing, fantastic, and frankly unexpected I think.
Bingo.The only way he's looking at mid-level is if he collapses entirely and/or can't play.
Totally agree. I’ll eat a log of Brad’s sh*t if Kemba outs out of his final year. He’s on the IT path while Chris Paul is still among the best defensive guards in the game and was mentioned in some MVP talk this year.Bingo.
You're looking at all these guys as if their "injuries" are equivalent. Kemba is in the Blake Griffin/IT basket more than the Chris Paul/Gordon Hayward basket.
I was cautiously optimistic about Kemba this year as sometimes people do have meniscus tears and mild to moderate arthritis that stabilize and they hold off father time for a few years (or more). But we're going on more than a year and a half with progressive arthritis causing long periods of poor play or inability to play. To the point he can't suit up for the biggest playoff games of his life.
Next year will obviously be key, but there is a non zero chance he is looked at as a part time guy pretty soon.
It seems almost definite he is a negative asset at age 31-32 for 76M. Someone is going to willingly give him 75M for his age 33-35 seasons? I'll believe it when i see it. Like I said, if thats even a consideration, 2021-2022 went very well for Kemba.
well my post said if he keeps something approaching his 2020-21 stats over 60-70 games. If he does that... yes?Bingo.
You're looking at all these guys as if their "injuries" are equivalent. Kemba is in the Blake Griffin/IT basket more than the Chris Paul/Gordon Hayward basket.
I was cautiously optimistic about Kemba this year as sometimes people do have meniscus tears and mild to moderate arthritis that stabilize and they hold off father time for a few years (or more). But we're going on more than a year and a half with progressive arthritis causing long periods of poor play or inability to play. To the point he can't suit up for the biggest playoff games of his life.
Next year will obviously be key, but there is a non zero chance he is looked at as a part time guy pretty soon.
It seems almost definite he is a negative asset at age 31-32 for 76M. Someone is going to willingly give him 75M for his age 33-35 seasons? I'll believe it when i see it. Like I said, if thats even a consideration, 2021-2022 went very well for Kemba.
No, there is no deal for him if he repeats the same #s...your math is off and GAMES PLAYED is the most important # up therestill think there's a pretty significant (30-40%) chance Kemba opts out of the last year of his deal if he's relatively healthy next year. THe last 3-5 years is littered with guys that people said "oh he'll never opt out of that big $ year" who then opted out for more years at less money. If Kemba had a year like this one: 70 GP, 19/4/5 slash line 36-38% from 3.... there's probably at minimum a 3/75 deal out there for him right?
I'm not going to count games returning from surgery in a player's games missed. It is assumed that you will miss those games no matter what. It's how much you can play AFTER you return that matters. As to season like last, I was referring to his stat line.No, there is no deal for him if he repeats the same #s...your math is off and GAMES PLAYED is the most important # up there
If he played the same % of games in an 82 game schedule, he'd be under 50 games played. He played 43 out of 72 games this past season. He also juiced his offensive numbers when Jaylen was out (as the #2 option) and the Celtics were in free fall (see KW's last 7 regular-season games)
degenerative is the damning word, Boston is the bag holder here for $37.6MM the following season
HRB can save half that log for me if Kemba gets 3yrs for $75MM to play for Coach Thibs.
Miami wanted to keep that salary slot, so they could make a play for Giannis in FA. That's why they paid Goran $18MM for 1yr and a team option for year 2 (and why they overpaid Myers Leonard last offseason).The only way he's looking at mid-level is if he collapses entirely and/or can't play. Goran Dragic got 18M at 35, Pat Beverly got 3/40 well into his 30s.... Kemba is a much better player than either.
I mean sure... and if Kemba were a FA tomorrow what deal does he get? My point was that people wildly underestimate the deals guys get in FA., even if they are old, or injury prone, or overrated defenders with no offense.Miami wanted to keep that salary slot, so they could make play for Giannis in FA. That's why they paid Goran $18MM for 1yr and a team option for year 2 (and why they overpaid Myers Leonard last offseason).
Pat Beverly was 30yrs old & was getting votes for the all NBA defensive team when he signed that deal
You are still looking at this through the prism of injuries and healing, like a hamstring strain or a broken bone.I get that people see "degenerative joint issue" and say IT, but he's not even close to the IT basket. IT was immediately done... toast as soon as the injury happened. Kemba after his return from surgery played 43 of 60 and did it at a pretty high level, not that dissimilar to his previous years. Now he got hurt again in the playoffs, potentially with the same issue, that makes him hard to move now, because teams worry that he's going to cliff or be a 40 game a year guy, but if he puts up a relatively healthy good season it likely changes how at least some teams think about him.
Agreed. The reason he will be so hard to trade is that 2/76 is so far and away more than he would get on the market right now. Would be lucky to get half that.I don't think Kemba would get a multi-year deal if he were a free agent right now. He'd have to have a near miraculous year next season (healthy the whole way, including a good playoff run) to even contemplate not picking up the player option.
I missed this earlier, but no, it's not in any way remotely in the same ballpark. Degenerative arthritis is a different thing entirely.And degenerative doesn't matter in itself, I mean plenty of guys around the league and through their careers had degenerative issues, Kawhi has a degenerative knee issue too (tendinopathy), he'd get a max anywhere in the league tomorrow. The question is how his injury progresses or doesn't.
Is Minnesota tossing in their top 3 pick to compensate Boston for stretch & releasing Beasley?Would Minnesota be looking to get rid of Malik Beasley, who had some legal issues? Beasley (3/$46m) and Rubio ($17m expiring) for Kemba, a young (non-TL) player, and the 16th pick?
what player/players would you expect in exchange for Kemba?I mean sure... and if Kemba were a FA tomorrow what deal does he get? My point was that people wildly underestimate the deals guys get in FA., even if they are old, or injury prone, or overrated defenders with no offense.
I mean, look at the Hayward thread, where a year out everyone said... he's obviously not opting out. Then by FA people were talking about 3/60 as what they thought... he got 4/120, and allegedly had at least 3 teams willing to go 4 years and 100M+. Everyone wildly underestimates salaries, and the amount of risk teams are willing to take in pursuit of potential #1 or #2 scorers. If Kemba shows he can stay healthy and score he'll be attractive to teams at a mild discount.
I honestly think the most likely thing is he opts in, but I think not taking the possibility into consideration when looking at the future is a mistake.
On his current deal... not many straight up. Horford likely, maybe Porzingis, Love, Hield and Wall, maybe Wiggins all come to mind as possibilities just in terms of similar underwater contracts. I don't think the Celtics can reasonably make a trade they would want to make.what player/players would you expect in exchange for Kemba?
Could we get Hield for Kemba? That sounds too good to be trueOn his current deal... not many straight up. Horford likely, maybe Porzingis, Love, Hield and Wall, maybe Wiggins all come to mind as possibilities just in terms of similar underwater contracts. I don't think the Celtics can reasonably make a trade they would want to make.
I don't think Kemba has trade value. I think he has the potential to have some FA value for himself after next season from a team that is desperate for scoring, if he plays and plays pretty well next year, and that he may see more up front guarantee as worth it given his knee issue.
Probably not... his contract is bad, but I just checked and it's actually a declining structure, so we'd probably have to add value. Though I wouldn't want that deal anyway. I'd rather have an oft injured guy with a 2 year deal than Hield who isn't that good on a 3 year deal.Could we get Hield for Kemba? That sounds too good to be true
Hield is really awful. He’s like a poor mans Fournier.Could we get Hield for Kemba? That sounds too good to be true
Idk, I saw him light us up, havent seen much else.Hield is really awful. He’s like a poor mans Fournier.
Would you consider going bigger by trading Walker for Love (in the hopes that he’d be more engaged in a better environment) and playing some combination of Smart, Pritchard, and Langford as your nominal PG (but your wings likely tasked with initiating the offense)? How about Wiggins?On his current deal... not many straight up. Horford likely, maybe Porzingis, Love, Hield and Wall, maybe Wiggins all come to mind as possibilities just in terms of similar underwater contracts.
I hope there is a way to involve Darius Garland in a deal to take Love off their books while sending them a load of youngs/assets. I’ve said this before but it is soooooo hard to acquire a PG from a team who has two quality ones as in today’s game you can simply play them together. That would be sweet though.Would you consider going bigger by trading Walker for Love (in the hopes that he’d be more engaged in a better environment) and playing some combination of Smart, Pritchard, and Langford as your nominal PG (but your wings likely tasked with initiating the offense)? How about Wiggins?
If Boston is dumping a toxic contract, they have to accept a problem back in return, unless they are willing to part with a first round pick or two.Is Minnesota tossing in their top 3 pick to compensate Boston for stretch & releasing Beasley?
If the C's traded for him, I really doubt they would release him. I think it would show they didn't care about his legal troubles, which is the only reason he'd ever be available for Kemba anyway. From a "personal character" perspective, the upgrade from Beasley to Kemba would be huge for Minnesota though.Is Minnesota tossing in their top 3 pick to compensate Boston for stretch & releasing Beasley?
i’m fine adding value, though perhaps not for Hield, to shift the risk exposure. The real danger to me is in having the limited, degenerating and only occasionally available player in your lineup be the ball dominant primary handler, who even in the best of circumstances is hunted as a defensive liability already.Probably not... his contract is bad, but I just checked and it's actually a declining structure, so we'd probably have to add value. Though I wouldn't want that deal anyway. I'd rather have an oft injured guy with a 2 year deal than Hield who isn't that good on a 3 year deal.