Yeah, it’s pathetic that the Celtics didn’t have the balls to ask him not to play. He’s waited his whole career for a real playoff run; likely would have been amenable to that argument.View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1230603102266548226
Kemba out tomorrow with the knee injury.
He really shouldn't have played that much in the all star game.
Nick Nurse padding his COTY resumeYeah, it’s pathetic that the Celtics didn’t have the balls to ask him not to play. He’s waited his whole career for a real playoff run; likely would have been amenable to that argument.
Yeah, but optics look weird.This is a terrible Minnesota team. This screams load management more than an actual injury.
Meh - they get to play the victim a bit and blame Nurse for his decisions all while skating free from any league interferenceYeah, but optics look weird.
At some point though you have to hit the gas for the #2 seed. It’s extremely important.Nick Nurse padding his COTY resume
All the good feelings about the Elam Ending fade away in the Cellar with this news
Expect a bunch of load mgmt the final 28 games for Kemba, hope that fixes him for the playoffs
They are 11-2 in their last 13 before the break. Seems as thout their gas pedal can't be hit much harderAt some point though you have to hit the gas for the #2 seed. It’s extremely important.
But then we don't get to clutch pearls and get "big mad" at Nurse for Walker's usage, Walker for not speaking up for his playoff chances and the Celtics for not having the balls to stop him from playing in the All Star game. Its an outrage I tells ya!This is a terrible Minnesota team. This screams load management more than an actual injury.
I mean, the guy had a clear issue with his knee the past month as well as the potential to take 7 straight days and rest it, especially after playing a lot in the Clippers OT game.But then we don't get to clutch pearls and get "big mad" at Nurse for Walker's usage, Walker for not speaking up for his playoff chances and the Celtics for not having the balls to stop him from playing in the All Star game. Its an outrage I tells ya!
You are entitled to feel that way.I mean, the guy had a clear issue with his knee the past month as well as the potential to take 7 straight days and rest it, especially after playing a lot in the Clippers OT game.
I’ve heard that rest is good for making bodies healthier.
And yes, I’m definitely “big mad” that the team and Kemba didn’t prioritize that over playing in the All-Star game, as well as letting a rival coach have the main say in his usage.
Kemba was mostly held out of practice as well, so I don’t buy the load management thing fully, although I have no doubt he’d be playing if this were a playoff game.
So if you buy that there was a mistake made, Walker being selfish is the main culprit. I want to be clear that I do not think he was being selfish and that he is most likely fine."I was actually supposed to be on a minute restriction, but the game got too close," Walker said. "I wanted to be out there. I wanted to compete. I knew down the stretch that it would get serious like that, and I wanted to be a part of it."
Come on man, I didn't say it was an outrage. But it is odd to miss 3 games in early Feb, play a few, and then 30 minutes in ASG, then sit out first game 5 days later. I know Minnesota sucks, but every regular season game is more important than the ASG. And again, I'm not outraged, I said the optics look weird.But then we don't get to clutch pearls and get "big mad" at Nurse for Walker's usage, Walker for not speaking up for his playoff chances and the Celtics for not having the balls to stop him from playing in the All Star game. Its an outrage I tells ya!
I didn't say you said it was an outrage. I was not pointing at you or anyone in particular - you are completely entitled to feel how you feel. Furthermore, I agree that the optics are bad.Come on man, I didn't say it was an outrage. But it is odd to miss 3 games in early Feb, play a few, and then 30 minutes in ASG, then sit out first game 5 days later. I know Minnesota sucks, but every regular season game is more important than the ASG. And again, I'm not outraged, I said the optics look weird.
This is exactly why it would have been helpful for the Celtics to tie Kemba-Ulysses to the mast: it’s very hard for competitors like Kemba and Nurse to look at things rationally in the heat of the moment.I didn't say you said it was an outrage. I was not pointing at you or anyone in particular - you are completely entitled to feel how you feel. Furthermore, I agree that the optics are bad.
But let's be honest here - if Walker was hurt enough to be on a minutes restriction, he should have asked out of the game. Nurse had no real authority to oppose him.
Maybe Kemba is as selfish as Kyrie?
I tend to agree with you. It just looks weird that he is sitting out the first game afterward. But I don't see anything sinister.I tend to think its purely load management and that if Walker's knee was any worse than the other injuries most NBA regulars are contending with in late February, he wouldn't have played much, if at all, during the AS game.
This part is definitely true. I get antsy about Kemba's health just because of how critical I think he'll be to creating advantages against teams like Philly and Milwaukee. For your standard Timberwolves without KAT game, should be fine.The good thing about the Cs is their wealth of playmakers allows them to rest Walker without losing too much.
Nurse had no authority to oppose him? Nurse was coaching the team. Nurse had 100% of the authority over who was on the court. I have not read about the Nurse/minutes restriction thing outside this thread, but if Kemba was restricted and Nurse let him play beyond the minutes limit, that is a very legitimate reason to be pissed at Nurse. He has a responsibility to honor the limit. Obviously players in the heat of a game are going to want to play more...that's why they have athletic trainers and coaches.I didn't say you said it was an outrage. I was not pointing at you or anyone in particular - you are completely entitled to feel how you feel. Furthermore, I agree that the optics are bad.
But let's be honest here - if Walker was hurt enough to be on a minutes restriction, he should have asked out of the game. Nurse had no real authority to oppose him.
Maybe Kemba is as selfish as Kyrie?
Nurse is essentially a figurehead in this context. He can be your villain here but I am not sure what he can actually do to force a player to do something.Nurse had no authority to oppose him? Nurse was coaching the team. Nurse had 100% of the authority over who was on the court. I have not read about the Nurse/minutes restriction thing outside this thread, but if Kemba was restricted and Nurse let him play beyond the minutes limit, that is a very legitimate reason to be pissed at Nurse. He has a responsibility to honor the limit. Obviously players in the heat of a game are going to want to play more...that's why they have athletic trainers and coaches.
I'm inclined to agree with this perspective, despite the tweet above saying Kemba had some swelling. I get the sense that they want to rest Kemba against a non-playoff opponent because they won't have an opportunity to do so until 3/4 when they play the Cavs on the second night of a back to back. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kemba sit out that game as well. If he sits for the Lakers game, I will be concerned. I'm expecting both Kemba and Hayward to take games off for load management purposes for the remainder of the season, so it's hard to parse what is load management and what is a real concern at this point.Nurse is essentially a figurehead in this context. He can be your villain here but I am not sure what he can actually do to force a player to do something.
That said, I don't know exactly what went on. My view is clearly that this is much ado about nothing but I may be wrong. Even so, I think blaming Nurse is wrong too. Either Walker was healthy enough to play what he played or he wasn't and expecting a person who isn't Walker's regular coach - and who probably spent no more than a few minutes on line-ups for this game - to monitor the situation closely just isn't realistic.
If Walker was really at risk of exacerbating his injury from extra minutes in an exhibition game that might cost him playing time in more meaningful games, he deserves the most blame.
For now, I think we are simply witnessing load management in action.
Because he had played the last few games prior to and it hadn't swelled up?If there’s anger to be had here, shouldn’t it be directed at the Celtics medical staff? Why is it that they didn’t “know this would be possible” ahead of the ASG?
Definitely, hence why I directed my initial anger at the organization. Not having really strict instructions for how your 29 year-old star should handle his injury management seems and seemed dumb.If there’s anger to be had here, shouldn’t it be directed at the Celtics medical staff? Why is it that they didn’t “know this would be possible” ahead of the ASG?
Why is is that you do?If there’s anger to be had here, shouldn’t it be directed at the Celtics medical staff? Why is it that they didn’t “know this would be possible” ahead of the ASG?
+1Definitely, hence why I directed my initial anger at the organization. Not having really strict instructions for how your 29 year-old star should handle his injury management seems and seemed dumb.
Hopefully we can stop treating suggestions that the team should be managing this better as “hot takes.” Sometimes hot is the right temperature.
Yep, it is odd. As is Kemba’s line about “the game got close and I wanted to be out there.” Uh, OK. Win it for Team Whoever you were on.Come on man, I didn't say it was an outrage. But it is odd to miss 3 games in early Feb, play a few, and then 30 minutes in ASG, then sit out first game 5 days later. I know Minnesota sucks, but every regular season game is more important than the ASG. And again, I'm not outraged, I said the optics look weird.
“I do think it’s important, like, there’s no way he would have played or our medical staff would have (let him play in the All-Star game) if they thought this was going to be possible after the break,” Stevens said. “It’s just unfortunate. It probably would have happened at some point, clearly, but it’s unfortunate that it happened there
I think it’s short-term enough that that (playing Sunday) will be in the discussion,” Stevens said.
Stevens said the medical staff approved one big game in the week leading up to the All-Star break, which was Walker’s 45-minute outing against the Clippers.
“I think there will be games and times where we try to restrict (his minutes)," Stevens said. "But there will also be times where we’ll try to have him go further because when you get to the playoffs and you get to that time of year, we’re going to need our very best players to be able to go 40 (minutes). So there’s gotta be a balance of you want guys to experience that a little bit, but at the same time we’ll have to determine when that is with him now.”
Stevens added that Walker had another scan on his knee, and everything looked good structurally. “It’s unfortunate but it doesn’t sound like it’s long term or anything,” he said.
Yes, and? As I've said (with timestamps, before the news came out today), the Celtics didn't look great in this, and I primarily blame the organization/coaches etc. Emotionally I want to be pissed at Nurse and Kemba, but this is mostly on the Celtics.If we are getting mad, Stevens deserves blame too if that tweet is correct.
That's in the article and they say that's not a big deal....relatively speaking of course.He also had a Synvisc injection apparently. That's not a good sign either. He's got something going on there that's a little more than a sore knee. Hopefully, he can get it under control.
He's a pro athlete. He's going to want to play, and that's great. Coaches and trainers need to protect him from himself.Have to be honest, some of the "anger" has to be directed at Kemba. He knew he was supposed to be on a minutes restriction and didn't stick with it.
Kemba has been inactive for 7 games/3 different stints, over the last 6 weeks due to knee soreness. He has been on minute restrictions the games he has returned. He played 45minutes against the Clippers on Thursday before the All-Star game. Miami had no problem asking for Jimmy Butler's minutes to be restricted, who has been dinged up. This is on Brad/Danny/Celtic training staff/Kemba, not luck.Has anyone considered that this might have simply been bad luck? Neither Stevens not the medical staff have reliable crystal balls.
He is also a 29 year old man and an NBA veteran who is playing on, perhaps, the best professional team he has ever been a part of. If he cannot balance his desire to play in a fun exhibition game versus his ability to play in more meaningful games down the stretch or beyond, it may not be so great.He's a pro athlete. He's going to want to play, and that's great. Coaches and trainers need to protect him from himself.
Telling banged-up players they can’t play when they want to is something teams do on a nearly daily basis. It’s almost never the player’s responsibility.He is also a 29 year old man and an NBA veteran who is playing on, perhaps, the best professional team he has ever been a part of. If he cannot balance his desire to play in a fun exhibition game versus his ability to play in more meaningful games down the stretch or beyond, it may not be so great.
Expecting Nurse, who is not Walker's coach, to monitor his individual minutes without Walker speaking up just isn't realistic. He cannot suspend or fine Walker and if Kemba told Nurse he was good to go, why wouldn't the coach just roll with him? Its kind of a win-win for him and the Raptors.
If this isn't just another manufactured crisis (i.e. it impacts him beyond today), its really on Walker imho. The C's coaching staff can make all the requests they want but only Walker was at the game.
Yeah , hopefully the Celtics take a firmer line with Kemba over the rest of the contract. It’s not a hard sell: “hey dude, you’re playing for championships now, and you’re not getting any younger. Let’s be overly cautious and smart about this stuff.”Didn't Jimmy Butler take an allstar spot and not play one year?
I am not sure his allstar usage is really a function of the Heat requesting that his minutes be limited. It may well be that Butler cares little about the actual game itself and more about hanging with his buddies during the weekend.
Look, people are understandably upset about Walker's usage in the allstar game. I prefer to see if it costs him meaningful games before I join them. That said, reasonable minds can still disagree about who deserves the most blame. This in no way means I like Nick Nurse beyond his meme generating abilities.
clearly Western-style load mgmtOut again tomorrow nite against Portland.
Yeah, I don't know how CBS can say that there's nothing "structural". From my experience of other people getting it, Synvisc (Synvisc-One) is given when people have chronic knee problems and stretching or PT stops helping. Of note, the injection isn't a long-term solution as even the FAQs for the drug says it lasts about six months. https://www.synviscone.com/what-is-synvisc-one/synvisc-faqsHe also had a Synvisc injection apparently. That's not a good sign either. He's got something going on there that's a little more than a sore knee. Hopefully, he can get it under control.