Kristaps Porzingis to Celtics!!!!!
- Thread starter SoxJox
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I think it was a good deal. I think it helps the team.
Obviously there's the possibility it fails. I am also capable of accepting the possibility that I'm wrong. I am often wrong. This feels like a silly digression.
There's been talk of how Smart covered up for other people's mistakes and orchestrated the D. I guess I just didn't see that last year. I saw a team that defended really well when it had a healthy rim protecting presence and was mediocre defensively when it didn't.
money was basically impossible. However.... keep an eye on him or Monte Morris in a Grant S&T situation, if someone is giving him 15-16M a year or more then it's basically a perfect salary fit for one of those guys (Grant is a BYC guy so only half his salary counts).
I see no situation where Grant is on this team honestly. I think if they add a wing (might not) it'll be a cheap vet or with the #25 pick.
On the other hand, I actually really think that we're going to make at least 1 more trade.
If Brad could figure out how to add Kyle Andersen & Delon Wright while using Brogdon's salary that would complete the offseason in my book
Not much if I follow the timeline and the preference was to move Brogdon before pivoting to a Smart deal? These are some pretty pragmatic dudes, and my sense was it was about return not addition by subtraction.
Really none? He kills from 3, plays solid D against beefy bigs, and if they can get him at a reasonable deal they might just to hold a 12-15mm salary slot alive in advance of the coming CBA trade limitations (Cs will be spending $ for forseeable future).
Edit: a question for those that watched more non-Cs (aka Nuggets and or Wiz)...is there any reason to think the KP move is part of countering Jokic, or is that a non-factor? They must expect to meet him next year for the trophy.
This trade reminds me of a couple of Red's trades in early and mid '80s.
1. After debacle of playoff exit in 1983, they trade Rick Robey and draft picks for DJ because the team lacked a bigger guard who could defend.
2. After losing in 1985 championship because of lack of depth , they trade the 1984 Finals MVP, Maxwell, for backup center Bill Walton, and a bunch of draft picks for backup guard, Sichting.
They could have very easily ran it back in 1984 and 1986 with essentially the same teams as 1983 and 1985 respectively...they were good enough to compete for championship. But, sometimes you need to address weaknesses to win, and not just compete, for championship. This current trade may not work, but I understand the logic behind it as I think that it makes them a better team, even though I'm sad to see Marcus go.
Side Note: In 1984, the Celtics also traded fan-favorite Gerald Henderson to Seattle for its 1986 1st round pick, which ended up being Len Bias. What a f'n run of trades and drafts by Red from 1978 (drafting of Bird early)-1987 (drafting of Reggie Lewis at #22). I don't think that it will ever be matched or could be matched with today's rules.
1. After debacle of playoff exit in 1983, they trade Rick Robey and draft picks for DJ because the team lacked a bigger guard who could defend.
2. After losing in 1985 championship because of lack of depth , they trade the 1984 Finals MVP, Maxwell, for backup center Bill Walton, and a bunch of draft picks for backup guard, Sichting.
They could have very easily ran it back in 1984 and 1986 with essentially the same teams as 1983 and 1985 respectively...they were good enough to compete for championship. But, sometimes you need to address weaknesses to win, and not just compete, for championship. This current trade may not work, but I understand the logic behind it as I think that it makes them a better team, even though I'm sad to see Marcus go.
Side Note: In 1984, the Celtics also traded fan-favorite Gerald Henderson to Seattle for its 1986 1st round pick, which ended up being Len Bias. What a f'n run of trades and drafts by Red from 1978 (drafting of Bird early)-1987 (drafting of Reggie Lewis at #22). I don't think that it will ever be matched or could be matched with today's rules.
View: https://youtu.be/R7Vr6MmoBQE
I knew about his rim protection and ability to score, but I'm somewhat surprised by his passing touch on some of these highlights.
I knew about his rim protection and ability to score, but I'm somewhat surprised by his passing touch on some of these highlights.
The problem with keeping Grant isn't about the player, it's about the roster and the cap.
1. He's basically a big and they have three better, and fairly expensive, bigs already (plus option to play tatum at 4)
2. Unless the market surprises us, he's going to be paid like a starter or sixth man, e.g. $13-$17 mil a year. Celtics just don't have space for that Apron-wise and tax-wise it's a massive incremental amount to keep him
3. Skill-wise he is a nice fit, and adding another big who can space means he is less unique than he was yesterday
4. The biggest roster needs are a wing defender (he's passable there, but not elite) and a distributor (not his thing) so up agains the above, hard to see the fit
I think post-trade them simply letting him go for a big offer sheet with no return is not impossible. Not likely, not my prdiction, but conceivable which it was not (to me) yesterday
1. He's basically a big and they have three better, and fairly expensive, bigs already (plus option to play tatum at 4)
2. Unless the market surprises us, he's going to be paid like a starter or sixth man, e.g. $13-$17 mil a year. Celtics just don't have space for that Apron-wise and tax-wise it's a massive incremental amount to keep him
3. Skill-wise he is a nice fit, and adding another big who can space means he is less unique than he was yesterday
4. The biggest roster needs are a wing defender (he's passable there, but not elite) and a distributor (not his thing) so up agains the above, hard to see the fit
I think post-trade them simply letting him go for a big offer sheet with no return is not impossible. Not likely, not my prdiction, but conceivable which it was not (to me) yesterday
I think he's a great piece, but unless they are cutting money somewhere else I just don't see them committing what he'll get. I think 16M is his floor based on what we've seen on extensions. Someone is going 16-18M, and if that's the price I'd rather give Porzingis an extension in the mid 20s.
I think they will be looking to get a budget version of Grant either in the draft or trade markets.
The East comes down to this following:
1. How well can you defend Giannis?
2. How well do you match up against MIA?
3. How well can you defend Embid?
What’s the best way going forward to do these three things? Can KP help with 1 & 3 specifically? If so, what else can be done to address #2? I fee like moving GW hurts #1.
1. How well can you defend Giannis?
2. How well do you match up against MIA?
3. How well can you defend Embid?
What’s the best way going forward to do these three things? Can KP help with 1 & 3 specifically? If so, what else can be done to address #2? I fee like moving GW hurts #1.
I think to the Celtics they would say the East comes down to.... can you stop the Celtics. And Porzingis makes that a lot harder. Beyond his defense, and his ability to stretch teams out, he adds a PnR element, and another versatile scorer to an offense that at times bogged down.
Boston shouldn't be worrying about how they match up with another team, they are the best team in the conference on paper and they should be building the best juggernaut they can and let everyone else try to match up with them.
Grant undoubtedly helps this team. He gives them tools to match up with different teams. He probably helps more on a team without Smart. It's the cost that's prohibitive. I don't see how they make it happen unless his market is barren. One consequence of the new CBA could be to squeeze non-elite guys on their second contracts.
I do love how he goes full Bill Russell with most of the blocks in this video. Not just rejecting into the seats, but either redirecting to a teammate or swallowing the ball up mid air and coming down with it. Pair him with Rob and it's gonna be tough inside!
Plus, the three teams listed above have their own issues. The Harden situation in Philly, Milwaukee possibly losing Lopez and/or Middleton and Miami with another year of tread off of Butler’s tires and Vincent/Strus possibly leaving.
Yes, the fact that the Celtics have the team they have, along with 8 1sts in the next 7 years, is a huge credit to Stevens. He's been shockingly good at getting value for players and low 1sts.
I posted just yesterday that I would shocked if Smart was dealt largely because of his "voice" and intangibles. Obviously I was wrong on that. But I think part of this is definitely a way to "shake things up" besides being a talent and fit upgrade on paper.
I look forward to the next moves.
I look forward to the next moves.
Maybe they were planning all along on moving Smart this off-season but this transaction initially had Brogdon outgoing based on the reporting.
I think Smart's inclusion wasn't necessarily planned before the Clippers angle fell apart so this feels more like Stevens deciding they needed this deal versus getting Smart gone.
That squeeze is definitely going to happen. The stars are going to get paid huge amounts of money under the new CBA and role players are going to get less of the pie. Many here want to give supermax contracts to Brown and Tatum and that creates issues for how you build the rest of the team. I think you will see teams having to make many changes each year and only a few players will stay on teams for an extended period.
This certainly seems to be the case based on the information that we have. For all we know, the Clippers were dragging their feet, Memphis heard about it, and Memphis put out an offer of more but they wanted Smart. In either case, this was about getting KP, not getting rid of Smart. There are those, including me, that felt like he needed to go if Brown and Tatum are ever going to become the leaders of the team, but I doubt Brad was thinking about any of that when he made the trade and he likely doesn't even agree with the sentiment.
That’s the hope, but the flipside is that the ‘24 draft pool is pretty sucky and it would be a miracle if Boston gets a rotation guy out of it with their picks if they’re both in the 20+ range. And the West is bad enough at the moment that the Warriors could win 50 games out there.
That’s a real hole on the roster now. White struggles defending larger players, he’s great at defending 1s, but guys like Butler looked at him like the hole. I’m thrilled that Morant’s lunacy netted Boston two late firsts for Marcus (and the salary space to add KP). But they do need to find a jack of all trades guy to replace Marcus. Those guys are invaluable. I wonder if Bruce Brown would consider signing with Boston now that Marcus is out?
Hoping for him. He'd be a great add and would replace most of Smart's defense, I think.
That would really be unfortunate, and it'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall during the players' association discussions on this issue. Maybe the salary floor helps because teams have to pay someone and not every team will have two elite level guys?
I spent some time reading the RealGM fans' forum for the Wizards, and checking out their reaction to the trade. Mostly they ranged between "we got screwed" and "oh well, what could we have done."
Some good comments on Porzingis re: character/work ethics:
Some good comments on Porzingis re: character/work ethics:
A lot of disbelief that they gave up Porzingis and didn't get either of those 2 Memphis first-rounders that went to Boston:
There was also a sense that Memphis got screwed too:
Then they think their GM got outsmarted:
Yes, they can offer him a raise over the MLE, but given that the Nuggets are loading up on picks to add roleplayers (in this draft no less) there’s no guarantee that they’re willing to do that. If Boston already has an idea of who wants to sign Grant, and can work out a deal in that regard, then it’s possible to go higher (the mechanics would be ugly for sure). Ime and Houston seem to be in that market (they’ve been linked to PJ Washington), so Ime might look favorably at having back one of his guys. Something along the lines of a Williams sign & trade for Eason and a separate deal of Brogdon into cap space for a pick allows a pivot to Denver for a Brown sign & trade. And the Nuggets sure do seem to be stocking up on draft picks now.
Yeah, they weren’t dealing with the reality that KP was a free agent in a poor free agent market when teams had money to spend. Getting #35 for a guy that they were losing anyway was about as good as they were going to get.
This part of it sucks. He's going to a good situation though. I'm sure he'll come around.
I was not looking forward to these types of reports. If someone manages to somehow get a camera on him today for his reaction, I might cry.
I like this. We have watched two years where they came close. But not good enough. All kinds of risks in this deal and losing Macus hurts. But something needed to be done. I applaud Brad for being bold.
he will 100% come around and I am sure he will love Memphis (and Memphis will love him)….but I can’t blame him for being shell shocked. I thought he was Brad’s guy and I never thought Brad would trade him
Important note in that article, Brad did not "panic" with an hour to go like some people want to believe:
I feel like WSH did OK. They had a guy who could walk, and got a decent player who they can probably flip at the deadline for a mid first if they want.
It's the Memphis part I don't get. They trade Tyus for Smart which still leaves them a guard light, with Marcus the presumptive lead ball handler while Morant is suspended, and they give up effectively one and a half firsts to do it. They get older and more expensive, and I don't see how this significantly raises their ceiling.
It's the Memphis part I don't get. They trade Tyus for Smart which still leaves them a guard light, with Marcus the presumptive lead ball handler while Morant is suspended, and they give up effectively one and a half firsts to do it. They get older and more expensive, and I don't see how this significantly raises their ceiling.
It doesn't for me. It feels like the Clips giving Stevens cover if he is trying to deal Brogdon elsewhere.
Malcolm didn't suddenly get better after midnight last night but he definitely needs a better narrative health-wise.
It's definitely a tough one to swallow. Smart was the ultimate team guy from day 1.
- He entered the league at the dawn of the Warriors' rise to prominence, the prototype to take on any 3-and-D guys AND take charges.
- He spent 9 years on the same team, virtually all of that in the top 9 rotation, 5 years as a starter. Who's the only other player still with his original team since the 2014 draft? Embiid, and he's basically red-shirted 1/3 of his career through The Process.
- He got a big extension with Bird rights, but not so big that his money would prevent one or both Jays from re-signing down the road. 19M per year? That's 20-25% less than he could have earned as a free agent.
- His hustle went viral. Do we really think Grant Williams or Derrick White would have had the success they did as defenders without his efforts?
I'm excited for The Unicorn, but definitely worried about losing the heart of the Celtics.
I’ve always loved how deeply Marcus bled green. His game, needless to say, could absolutely infuriate me at times.
I see a lot of “heart and soul” comments, but I really don’t think that’s been the Cs problem. Rather, I think they need more “brains”. I’m not the diehard many of you are, but to me there were stretches in games last
season where the team played unfathomably stupid.
I’m certainly not suggesting that Marcus was the sole culprit, not at all. But I do think they need to play a helluva lot smarter, so perhaps opening more minutes for White (or another guard) will help in that regard.
Anyway, I’m happy they’re not just running it back. I don’t think that was gonna work.
I see a lot of “heart and soul” comments, but I really don’t think that’s been the Cs problem. Rather, I think they need more “brains”. I’m not the diehard many of you are, but to me there were stretches in games last
season where the team played unfathomably stupid.
I’m certainly not suggesting that Marcus was the sole culprit, not at all. But I do think they need to play a helluva lot smarter, so perhaps opening more minutes for White (or another guard) will help in that regard.
Anyway, I’m happy they’re not just running it back. I don’t think that was gonna work.
I gotta be honest, it feels like the rosy outlook in this post is being bestowed upon Marcus Smart. The Marcus Smart you’re describing was not part of the Celtics last year. There was a very significant dropoff in his defensive energy and consistency in 2022-23, so much so I’d say he was the 4th or 5th best defender on the team, and the second best guard. The man has taken a lot of punishment and it appears to me the motor cannot run like it used to.
The Clippers are leaking info to Adam Himmelsbach to do a solid for the Celtics after leaking the opposite to Woj last night?