Kyle Arrington released

[Jettisoned]

Anyone else really concerned about our current depth chart? I mean, the last we saw of Logan Ryan he was getting absolutely abused by mediocre Seahawks receivers. [snip]

 
Arrington was awful in the Super Bowl.  He was even worse than Logan Ryan was.  He was covering on the bombs down the left sideline on the last drive of the 2nd qtr. and first drive of the 3rd qtr..  He sat out the rest of the game after that.
 
There are obviously a lot of unknowns in the secondary now but we've known that Arrington can't cover anyone outside the numbers for 5 years. 

 

[brandonchristensen]

I know nothing. 
- Jon Snow

 

[RG33]

Texans Safety D.J. Swearinger posted on Instagram:

"One heck of an opportunity ‪#‎texannation‬ I appreciate everything and the opportunity and memories!! It's time for a new chapter and the defining moment of my career!! So long ‪#‎HOUSTONTEXANS‬"

More probably than not completely unrelated, but a McCourty to CB move coupled with a Swearinger trade to Patriots to play Safety?

 

[Stitch01]

Boy I hope not.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

I just can't see the Patriots making McCourty one of the top paid safeties in the league and moving him to CB, where he was so bad they had to get him out of it at premium money. 

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Texans Safety D.J. Swearinger posted on Instagram:

"One heck of an opportunity ‪#‎texannation‬ I appreciate everything and the opportunity and memories!! It's time for a new chapter and the defining moment of my career!! So long ‪#‎HOUSTONTEXANS‬"

More probably than not completely unrelated, but a McCourty to CB move coupled with a Swearinger trade to Patriots to play Safety?

 
I doubt it.
 
A Johnathan Joseph trade makes some sense though.  Houston just signed Kareem Jackson to a decent sized contract and drafted Kevin Johnson in the first round.  Joseph is on the last year of his deal and its pretty clear they're not planning on resigning him.  If Houston has other better uses for that cap space (Peterson maybe?) and could pry a 5th or something from the Patriots for Joseph, it could make sense.  I really have no idea how Joseph looked last season as I don't watch a lot of Texans games.  But from the Pats' perspective it would basically be a 1/8.5 deal that helps bridge CB this year but involves no further commitment, which could be attractive if BB still thinks he has enough left in the tank.

 

[Shelterdog]

It's hard to be rational on either side of this issue right now.  
 
On one side: they lack proven CBs, what are they going to do?!?!?
On the other side: in Belichick we trust.
 
There's really insufficient data for any meaningful conclusion about what the secondary will be like next season.  We're stuck waiting for the next shoe(s) to drop.  

 
In Belichick we trust is a pretty rational position.  Arrington turns 29 soon which is starting to get old for a corner, he's somewhat expensive, he's played a shitload of games (often with a heavy special teams role) and gotten banged up an awful lot.  If Belichick thinks that Justin Green or Dax Swanson are reasonable cheap replacements at this point then far be it from me to disagree. 
 
EDIT: To expand, it's rational to think BB knows what the heck he's doing here, it's just not a particularly well informed position.

 

[Kevin Youkulele]

 
In Belichick we trust is a pretty rational position.  Arrington turns 29 soon which is starting to get old for a corner, he's somewhat expensive, he's played a shitload of games (often with a heavy special teams role) and gotten banged up an awful lot.  If Belichick thinks that Justin Green or Dax Swanson are reasonable cheap replacements at this point then far be it from me to disagree. 
 
EDIT: To expand, it's rational to think BB knows what the heck he's doing here, it's just not a particularly well informed position.

I will accept your point and agree with you (I think) that I should have said "It's hard to make a well-informed argument on either side of this issue right now."

 

[nattysez]

Hmm.
 

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Mark Daniels‏@MarkDanielsPJ

McCourty said a group were going to over to Arrington's house "before stuff probably starts to change for him." Sounds like he won't be back
 

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Arrington seemed to gain more of BB and Patricia's trust this year, aside from his awful first half in the Super Bowl.  I'm very surprised by this, and very concerned about our present CB depth.
 
"In BB we trust, all others pay cash" -- true enough, as always.  I assume he has a plan.  But this move hurts our talent level AND our depth at a thin, crucial position today, and I never like to count on rookie contributions except on the line.  We needed Arrington more than we needed a couple mil in cap space.  Unless this move is paired with another, or we can re-sign him for less, I'm pretty concerned.

 

[Super Nomario]

Arrington seemed to gain more of BB and Patricia's trust this year, aside from his awful first half in the Super Bowl.

I don't agree with this - he played over 900 snaps on D in both 2012 and 2013 but played fewer than 600 last year. Some of that is the other guys in the secondary and some was worse health this year, but they had a shorter leash with him this season when he struggled. Logan Ryan actually played more defensive snaps on the season.
 

 I'm very surprised by this, and very concerned about our present CB depth.

"In BB we trust, all others pay cash" -- true enough, as always.  I assume he has a plan.  But this move hurts our talent level AND our depth at a thin, crucial position today, and I never like to count on rookie contributions except on the line.  We needed Arrington more than we needed a couple mil in cap space.  Unless this move is paired with another, or we can re-sign him for less, I'm pretty concerned.

I'm concerned about the CB depth too, but because they don't have options with size who can match up outside against top wideouts. Cutting Arrington doesn't really move the needle on that. I think Ryan or McClain will be fine in the slot.

 

[dcdrew10]

According to Schefter's Twitter Arrington has agreed in principle to a 3 year deal with Baltimore

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/598619939621208065

 

[ivanvamp]

Gone from last year's team:  
 
- Best CB in the game (maybe behind Sherman):  Revis
- Most physical corner in the game:  Browner
- Best slot corner on the team:  Arrington
- Quality depth corner:  Dennard
 
Man, that's a LOT to lose.  Not looking forward to other QBs - even those named Geno Smith - throwing for 300+ yards again.

 

[MainerInExile]

Gone from last year's team:  
 
- Best CB in the game (maybe behind Sherman):  Revis
- Most physical corner in the game:  Browner
- Best slot corner on the team:  Arrington
- Quality depth corner:  Dennard
 
Man, that's a LOT to lose.  Not looking forward to other QBs - even those named Geno Smith - throwing for 300+ yards again.

 
I get the Revis thing.  But if BB thought Dennard or Arrington or Browner made the team better, they'd be on the team.

 

[soxhop411]

Wonder how much $$

 

[Stitch01]

300 yard passing games against the Pats
 
2014: 7
2013: 5
2012: 7
2011: 8
 
Pats record in those games 23-4
 
Yeah, the secondary is going to be worse than last year, but its a team game and there's lots of other areas where the team can improve to account for it.  Track record and team wide personnel say they'll be fine once we are passed the deflate gate nonsense.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Wonder how much $$

maybe $2.5M a year; no word on signing bonus: https://twitter.com/RavensInsider/status/598635800893480961

 

[dcmissle]

According to Schefter's Twitter Arrington has agreed in principle to a 3 year deal with Baltimore

https://mobile.twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/598619939621208065

Not surprised. That was their biggest weakness last year by a long stretch due to under performance and weakness. He'll likely do a fine job in that defense.

 

[Toe Nash]

 
Arrington was awful in the Super Bowl.  He was even worse than Logan Ryan was.  He was covering on the bombs down the left sideline on the last drive of the 2nd qtr. and first drive of the 3rd qtr..  He sat out the rest of the game after that.
 

Eh, he was matched up with Chris Matthews who has 8 inches on him. Those were well-thrown jump balls and Matthews just outworked him. It wasn't like he was left in the dust or anything -- just a terrible matchup. Butler isn't much bigger than Arrington but played more physical; Arrington seems to be more finesse for lack of a better word.
 
I still maintain if Matthews had "emerged" one game earlier and the Pats had properly prepared for his size, they win that game by two scores.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Arrington soon will be 29 years old and no one has ever mistaken him for an All Pro. Maybe BB thought he was decent enough to keep around for his prime years but won't be good enough to justify keeping in his decline ones. BB seems to have a great track record in knowing when to time letting a veteran go.

 

[MainerInExile]

Butler isn't much bigger than Arrington but played more physical; Arrington seems to be more finesse for lack of a better word.

 
Except when he's playing DE.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Butlet didnt cover Matthews when Arrington got benched, they put Browner on him.

 

[j44thor]

Butlet didnt cover Matthews when Arrington got benched, they put Browner on him.

 
Right that was one of the more mystifying coaching decisions of the SB.  How on earth did they expect Arrington or Ryan to cover a 6'5" jump ball specialist.  Sure they didn't have much tape on him but they did have the measurables.  That Browner had to ask to cover him is a bit ridiculous.
 
My concern with losing Arrington is that the depth is now razor thin at a position that has a high injury rate.  Perhaps Ryan/Butler/PHI castoffs will be an average group but what happens when you lose a couple of those for significant stretches, which is a near certainty.  Also odd timing that the release comes after the team finds out they are losing a 2017 4th which is a favorite pick of Bill to trade for this type of replacement.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Matthews had barely played this season before the Super Bowl. Teams make changes and adjustments; give the Seahawks credit for making an adjustment to exploit an advantage, and give the Pats credit for adjusting back to neutralize that advantage.
 
No one has shit on Arrington more than I have in this forum, but that was when he was playing outside corner. He's a good slot DB and if the Ravens keep him in that position he'll be a good pickup for them. That being said, he was expensive for what he did and as others have noted his playing time went down this year and he's not young any more.

 

[ivanvamp]

 
I get the Revis thing.  But if BB thought Dennard or Arrington or Browner made the team better, they'd be on the team.

 
We can't really know what BB thinks.  But isn't 
 
Opponent Passer Rating
2011:  #20 (86.1)
2012:  #17 (86.9)
2013:  #9 (81.0)
2014:  #10 (84.0)
 
Opponent Passing Yards Per Game
2011:  #31 (294)
2012:  #29 (271)
2013:  #18 (239)
2014:  #17 (240)
 
Opponent Completion %
2011:  #24 (62.4%)
2012:  #20 (62.1%)
2013:  #4 (57.0%)
2014:  #8 (59.6%)
 
Opponent Yards Per Attempt
2011:  #29 (8.0)
2012:  #28 (7.7)
2013:  #13 (7.0)
2014:   #15 (7.2)
 
In 2013, they had another terrific "shutdown" corner in Talib for the whole season.  Until he got hurt in the AFCCG, of course.  As far as we know, now they don't have anything remotely resembling one of those.  It seems like it's back to the philosophy of the 2011-12 seasons, where you have a bunch of so-so guys in there and hope for the best.  I realize that in 2011 they lost the Super Bowl by a whisker and in 2012 they lost in the AFCCG, so it's not like they can't be successful this way.  But those defenses really struggled getting stops.  In the past Super Bowl, while they gave up more points than they did in the previous one against the Giants, they got huge three-and-outs when they needed them, which allowed the Patriots to come back.  

 

[TheoShmeo]

I don't think what we're seeing signals a decision to go back to having lousy corners.  That might be the end result but each decision has to be viewed on its own merits.  While it is no doubt more complex than this, it's possible that BB viewed Revis as not worth the coin it would have required to keep him, Browner as someone who would not be as valuable and therefore also not worth the money without a Revis type across the field and Arrington as becoming less effective with age and also not worth the money he was slated to make in light of other alternatives on the roster today for his role.
 
Time will tell, and I hope to high heaven that there are players not currently on the team who will line up at corner next season, but I don't see this as as a sign that Bill wants to roll the 2011 dice, as it were.
 
Parenthetically, after seeing Arrington get so repeatedly toasted in the Super Bowl, I'm not entirely surprised that Bill let him go.  I know it's only one game and all that, but on the biggest stage, he was pretty horrible and got benched.  That seems hard to come back from.

 

[ivanvamp]

I don't think what we're seeing signals a decision to go back to having lousy corners.  That might be the end result but each decision has to be viewed on its own merits.  While it is no doubt more complex than this, it's possible that BB viewed Revis as not worth the coin it would have required to keep him, Browner as someone who would not be as valuable and therefore also not worth the money without a Revis type across the field and Arrington as becoming less effective with age and also not worth the money he was slated to make in light of other alternatives on the roster today for his role.
 
Time will tell, and I hope to high heaven that there are players not currently on the team who will line up at corner next season, but I don't see this as as a sign that Bill wants to roll the 2011 dice, as it were.
 
Parenthetically, after seeing Arrington get so repeatedly toasted in the Super Bowl, I'm not entirely surprised that Bill let him go.  I know it's only one game and all that, but on the biggest stage, he was pretty horrible and got benched.  That seems hard to come back from.

 
Oh for sure.  I'm not saying that BB is deliberately choosing to have suckier corners.  I just think that's what's going to end up happening.
 
As for your last point, on a very big stage (AFCCG), he absolutely dominated TY Hilton.  One of the great things about the Pats' secondary last year was that you had an all-time great who could cover anyone (Revis), and then from there you could match up based on the strengths of the opponent.  You need a big, physical corner to play their 6'5" receiver?  Fine, here's Browner.  You need a smaller, quicker corner to play their slot receiver?  Fine, here's Arrington.  

 

[TheoShmeo]

 
Oh for sure.  I'm not saying that BB is deliberately choosing to have suckier corners.  I just think that's what's going to end up happening.
 
As for your last point, on a very big stage (AFCCG), he absolutely dominated TY Hilton.  One of the great things about the Pats' secondary last year was that you had an all-time great who could cover anyone (Revis), and then from there you could match up based on the strengths of the opponent.  You need a big, physical corner to play their 6'5" receiver?  Fine, here's Browner.  You need a smaller, quicker corner to play their slot receiver?  Fine, here's Arrington.  

Yeah, I know my opening line was a bit of an overstatement and you were not going that far.
 
And good point that he was very effective in the AFCCG.  But in the last/biggest game, he was benched, and perhaps that's a difficult thing to overlook.
 
I also hear your point that he and Browner had complimentary skills (and corresponding weaknesses).  It's a curious set of decisions but there's a reason for In Bill We Trust, and it's not because we're unthinking toadies.  He just often does have a plan that is not readily apparent and I'm guessing that this is one of those times.
 
Either that or he didn't like all the attention the corners got and wants to show he can win with no damn corners!

 

[steveluck7]

 
Oh for sure.  I'm not saying that BB is deliberately choosing to have suckier corners.  I just think that's what's going to end up happening.
 
As for your last point, on a very big stage (AFCCG), he absolutely dominated TY Hilton.  One of the great things about the Pats' secondary last year was that you had an all-time great who could cover anyone (Revis), and then from there you could match up based on the strengths of the opponent.  You need a big, physical corner to play their 6'5" receiver?  Fine, here's Browner.  You need a smaller, quicker corner to play their slot receiver?  Fine, here's Arrington.  

Your match-up point is a good one but that's unfortunately not the case this year so the odds are that he would ahve been exposed once again and end up being more of a liability. If you searched the past few seasons' gamethreads for some variation of "f*** Arrington!!" you'd probably get a post count nearing the deflategate thread.
 
edit: Full disclosure... my own posts would account for a good chunk... irrational hatred for his game

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Bill just wants to invent a counterpart to basketball's triangle offense - the circle defense. So named because it has no corners.

 

[ivanvamp]

Yeah, I know my opening line was a bit of an overstatement and you were not going that far.
 
And good point that he was very effective in the AFCCG.  But in the last/biggest game, he was benched, and perhaps that's a difficult thing to overlook.
 
I also hear your point that he and Browner had complimentary skills (and corresponding weaknesses).  It's a curious set of decisions but there's a reason for In Bill We Trust, and it's not because we're unthinking toadies.  He just often does have a plan that is not readily apparent and I'm guessing that this is one of those times.
 
Either that or he didn't like all the attention the corners got and wants to show he can win with no damn corners!

 
Heh.  Well I think we all believe that the Patriots will be very good in 2015, one of the best teams in the league.  Why?  Because they always are.  If Gronk is healthy in 2011, they win that Super Bowl, even with a lousy pass defense.  Gronk was healthy in 2014, and they won the Super Bowl.  Not that it's ALL about Gronk, but he's a humongous factor.
 
Maybe the new athletes in the front 7 will cause so many problems for the opposition that BB can afford to have lesser corners.  Or maybe Butler really is going to become an outstanding NFL corner.  That's possible.  Who knows.
 
Unless Brady really is suspended for 4 games, I see no reason to believe this team won't win 11-13 games and be right there at the top of the AFC.