Given IT's hip and that Zizic hasn't played much yet ... I think calling it a huge upgrade for Cleveland is also a stretchThere is no satistics based support for calling this trade a huge upgrade for anyone but Cleveland.
Given IT's hip and that Zizic hasn't played much yet ... I think calling it a huge upgrade for Cleveland is also a stretchThere is no satistics based support for calling this trade a huge upgrade for anyone but Cleveland.
If this becomes an issue, we don't deserve an NBA title.This honestly makes it very difficult for me to root for the guy. There's a David Price feel to this move.
This is where I'm at (and what Clears said on other page). Ainge went out and added Hayward and Kyrie this summer, essentially swapped the Nets pick for the Lakers/Kings one and either avoids losing Isaiah for nothing or clears enough space to extend Smart. Ainge had about as much interest in paying Isaiah as he did paying Rondo a few years ago......and now Isaiah is happy too because he'll now get that Brinks Truck backed up for him.This is a stone cold and GREAT move by Danny. Picks up the best player in the deal. Adds a second top-tier star in one summer, along with one of the top 3 rookies in a good draft. Gets younger, dumps a potential chemistry problem, and solves the inevitable trainshow that was coming when IT didn't get his max contract.
I know there's an emotional connection to Thomas, but the NBA is cutthroat, and the Celtics had to get better.
It's a completely new team so any chemistry from last years team is already gone anyway.Charlie Pierce tweeted about how worried he is about team chemistry being upset. I say the deal as reported is well worth that risk.
His ceiling is probably a Gortat type. Good? Yes, but he's slow of foot and a decent shot he's not a viable NBA-level defender for a few years. I think this is a decent use of the 23rd pick who hasn't stepped on an NBA floor yet.Given IT's hip and that Zizic hasn't played much yet ... I think calling it a huge upgrade for Cleveland is also a stretch
99 Bulls?4 returning players and 1 starter from last years team, that has to be a record for a conference finalist
Do we change the Nets thread title? It feels like bad juju to keep it as isIt's going to feel really strange rooting for Brooklyn.
If Thomas is healthy, the Cavs are still the favorites.This is where I'm at (and what Clears said on other page). Ainge went out and added Hayward and Kyrie this summer, essentially swapped the Nets pick for the Lakers/Kings one and either avoids losing Isaiah for nothing or clears enough space to extend Smart. Ainge had about as much interest in paying Isaiah as he did paying Rondo a few years ago......and now Isaiah is happy too because he'll now get that Brinks Truck backed up for him.
The team is not totally restructured, I'll say are now the favorites in the East (and THE dominant EC team should LeBron leave next summer), and ready to make Championship runs. Ainge needed to play a hand with his assets and he's done just that.......while still maintaining a decent chance at another impact rookie next year.
It is silly to say Ainge was bidding against himself as if there was no interest in Kyrie around the league? You have to give up extra assets to keep him in the East as well. Time to get #18 now!
In sheer height it's a huge upgradeThere is no satistics based support for calling this trade a huge upgrade for anyone but Cleveland.
Eh, it's not that simple, because other pieces fit in where Crowder, Zizic and another rookie next year would have been. The great unknown is whether the BKLYN pick is higher than the Laker one. Maybe it's the difference between 1 and 5; maybe it's the difference between 5 and 6.Hard to be excited about this deal in isolation. Yes, the Celtics got the single best player in the deal, but is the difference in wins between IT and Kyrie really worth Crowder's contract, Zizic, AND what is likely to be a top 5 pick? I wouldn't think so.
If anything, this deal moved out a known malcontent (Crowder) and a guy with the potential to become a malcontent within a year (IT), for a guy who gets exactly what he wanted: to be the lead playmaker and the biggest star of a major franchise. I'm not sure where the chemistry issue is going to come from.It's a completely new team so any chemistry from last years team is already gone anyway.
If the Brooklyn pick is 5 and the Lakers pick is 6 then the Cs get nothing next yearEh, it's not that simple, because other pieces fit in where Crowder, Zizic and another rookie next year would have been. The great unknown is whether the BKLYN pick is higher than the Laker one. Maybe it's the difference between 1 and 5; maybe it's the difference between 5 and 6.
One played with LBJ; one did not. That matters.Is Irving really that much of a ballhog? I don't remember him being anything like a Melo level ballhog. He only had 0.3 less assists per 36 than IT last season.
I agree I really don't think there's going to be any chemistry issue, and maybe this is beating a dead horse at this point, but to call Crowder a "known malcontent" because of a single instance of him getting mad that HIS OWN FANS were cheering for the other team is ridiculous. And I don't see how IT would have become a malcontent either - either the C's max him out and he's happy, or they don't and he goes somewhere else.If anything, this deal moved out a known malcontent (Crowder) and a guy with the potential to become a malcontent within a year (IT), for a guy who gets exactly what he wanted: to be the lead playmaker and the biggest star of a major franchise. I'm not sure where the chemistry issue is going to come from.
Kyrie shot himself out of an awesome situation in Cleveland?If anything, this deal moved out a known malcontent (Crowder) and a guy with the potential to become a malcontent within a year (IT), for a guy who gets exactly what he wanted: to be the lead playmaker and the biggest star of a major franchise. I'm not sure where the chemistry issue is going to come from.
Probably, but it gets a lot closer. After next season it's not close in the opposite direction most likelyIf Thomas is healthy, the Cavs are still the favorites.
I don't know, if you buy the argument that Morris replaces the minutes for Crowder (and I'm not taking a side in that fight here), you could still trade a valuable chip in Crowder for something else if you want, or simply insist that you get value back. I guess the moving parts here are:Eh, it's not that simple, because other pieces fit in where Crowder, Zizic and another rookie next year would have been. The great unknown is whether the BKLYN pick is higher than the Laker one. Maybe it's the difference between 1 and 5; maybe it's the difference between 5 and 6.
This post articulates my previous rants but with more verve. I like.I despise this deal. I have loved every other move Ainge has made until now. This is like the time he wanted to trade 4 first round picks for Winslow, only worse. Does he have some crazy fetish for Duke players or something?
Irving's ego was so big he couldn't stay with Lebron after going to the Finals, he had to be the big shot on his team. So I'm sure he'll be happy to distribute the ball to Hayward and Horford and a bunch of rookies.
This ballhog egomanic flat-earther is the antithesis of Stevens Ball, and I highly doubt he is coming here to change his ways. He'll play the way he wants and tell Stevens to go screw.
If Isiah and Lebron are healthy they will knock the Celtics out of the playoffs next year, and then get to use the Nets pick that we've stashed for so long. Sickening.
It's way too early for rational postingWhile it's extraordinarily early, the fact this upcoming draft class goes arguably five deep with its quality (currently some order of Porter, Bagley, Bamba, Ayton, Doncic) really makes me feel at ease with this deal. Actual long term assets currently actually on the roster, such as Brown and Tatum, weren't traded. Brooklyn's pick hurts but is no sure thing by its number overall. Best case for Cleveland, because it bears repeating, is a 25% chance at #1 overall.
If the Lakers pick conveys this year, as should be expected, that's still an outstanding asset to have. Haven't seen anybody talk about this year, but it's still absolutely LA finishes worse than Brooklyn and/or results in a higher selection, in which case people will have been magically in favor of this deal the entire time. Not to mention, there are still additional conveyed picks from teams like Memphis, although those aren't likely to be as high, to be fair. All in all, in light of the Fultz trade, this genuinely makes sense if you ask me, and from Ainge's perspective. How so? The existing asset from the Lakers/Kings/Sixers is likely deemed somewhat comparable in Ainge's eyes, with the scales swinging of player quality between Irving and Thomas, not to mention the additional year of team control, the ages, to say nothing of Thomas' hip.
It took a bit of initial shock on my end to be reasonable about this. Unfortunate to see that Crowder's slashing won't benefit from Hayward, and was decently high on Zizic too. As much as I loved IT4's driving to the bucket, but he isn't a star, which you need to win in the NBA. No, Irving isn't sniffing top 10, can't believe that's been espoused in this thread, but he probably is quite a bit closer to a bonafide star, depending on who you ask. This trade also avoids an awful max down the line, given his style doesn't age well, and at best a catch-and-shooter. So, so glad to see this team sell high on Thomas. Add this to the spacing and shooting ability this team will be afforded with Bradball, not to mention the defensive upgrade it gives to the first unit on the whole. It may not be much of one in the regular season, but when you're replacing IT4, it's material enough to mention.
That's right, I'm quoting myself - called it (kinda, sorta...)!I'm wondering if Danny goes really big/ballsy for someone completely off the radar. Could he facilitate George to CLE and end up with Irving? Maybe something like Bradley and #3 go out, and we add Irving and Hayward? We'd improve this year and have a core/picks young enough to compete post CLE/GS runs.
Of course, I'm an idiot and don't know if this is even possible (or a good idea). But George and Butler don't make sense to me if it means we need to move the majority of our future picks.
LeBron's leaving next season, Gilbert sucks, their coach is a little dude with LeBron's hand up his heiny, and it's Cleveland. The potential moving forward is way better in Boston.Kyrie shot himself out of an awesome situation in Cleveland?
I have never used emojis before. Is there one where the smiley guy disembowels himself and then hangs himself with his own intestines?
I'm guessing it was Tatum or Brooklyn pick and I agree.I like IT, Crowder, Zizic for Kyrie. The Nets pick feels like too much, but I prefer it to dealing a Tatum in hand.
LOL....i'm sure Lebron dreams of playing with IT4 and Jae Crowder. PleaseThis is a Pablo Sandoval level overpay. It will end badly. Kyrie is supremely overrated by many here and by casual NBA fans everywhere. The Cavs just got better now and in the long term. LeBron may stay in Cleveland now.
This is where I'm at. After the players involved to match salaries they kept 2 of their 3 top assets and 3/4 if you count the Lakers pick. Keeping Brown and Tatum was so huge.I like IT, Crowder, Zizic for Kyrie. The Nets pick feels like too much, but I prefer it to dealing a Tatum in hand.
Kyrie's next season in Clev would have resulted in another trip to the Finals. Then, he endures one year in Clev as the MAN and then gets a huge payday. Wow. That sucks for sure.LeBron's leaving next season, Gilbert sucks, their coach is a little dude with LeBron's hand up his heiny, and it's Cleveland. The potential moving forward is way better in Boston.
Those threads have been like 85% of my reason for existing here.I'm going to feel so naked without a Brooklyn tankathon thread?
On 1) I have to think that Danny decided he wasn't going to give IT the contract, but for Kyrie he'll pony up, so it may be 2 vs 1 but could wind up being several more years vs 1. 3) will be a mystery for a while, and both Atlanta and Indiana could be worse than the Nets. 2, I mean maybe Guerschon picks up those minutes in a more mobile type arrangement?I don't know, if you buy the argument that Morris replaces the minutes for Crowder (and I'm not taking a side in that fight here), you could still trade a valuable chip in Crowder for something else if you want, or simply insist that you get value back. I guess the moving parts here are:
1.) How much more valuable do you think that Kyrie is over IT (if you think that he is much better, then sure, you probably love this trade); including both the years (2 vs. 1) and the potential severity of IT's hip injury in the future
2.) How good do you think Zizic will be? I was excited to see him play, but acknowledge that it is likely mostly hype I'm reacting to (though we were already thin as far as big men go)
3.) How likely do you think the Nets pick is to be top-5 in a good draft? If you think the Nets pick is likely to fall outside of that, again, you probably like this deal
Cs need it to be 3-5, right? I don't recall.If the Brooklyn pick is 5 and the Lakers pick is 6 then the Cs get nothing next year