Jeff Goodman on ESPN saying the holdup was not players but the pick. Cavs wanted Nets pick, Lakers pick or Tatum. Danny gave them the BKN of the other 2 options.
I'm not trying to be an a-hole, when I ask this, so please don't think I'm attacking you...The whole league knows Kyrie had to get moved so his trade value was at a low. This was an overpay.
There's always the Lakers.I'm going to feel so naked without a Brooklyn tankathon thread?
Danny values the Lakers pick (which we only get if its 2-5) over the Nets pick? Ooook...Cavs wanted Nets pick, Lakers pick or Tatum. Danny gave them the BKN of the other 2 options.
But do statistics take into account IT's hip?There is no satistics based support for calling this trade a huge upgrade for anyone but Cleveland.
Zarren and Ainge think the Lakers will be worse and are betting they won't get #1.Jeff Goodman on ESPN saying the holdup was not players but the pick. Cavs wanted Nets pick, Lakers pick or Tatum. Danny gave them the BKN of the other 2 options.
Well, Cleveland did do very well in this. Doesn't mean Celtics didn't.Cleveland is getting praised for this on ESPN by Jeff Van Gundy and others. I'm neutral for now. I'll miss IT on an emotional level, for sure. Seeing him playing with LeBron is going to suck.
Right, well my hypothetical was Lakers pick could be 5, Brooklyn one 6. Then we look back on that plus a guy who Celtics weren't re-signing (however much we loved him) and two minor assets for a couple rounds or more with Kyrie.
The answer is obvious- they wanted Kyrie who is a true superstar and thus worth it for them.I'm not trying to be an a-hole, when I ask this, so please don't think I'm attacking you...
It seems like 90% here think this is a ridiculous overpay because of the draft pick. Yet the Celtics did it anyway, presumably with Brad also being on board.
Why do you think this is?
I think the Lakers in the West are easily worse.Danny values the Lakers pick (which we only get if its 2-5) over the Nets pick? Ooook...
The people who hate this deal don't hate it because the Celtics gave up too many assets. They hate it because they think Kyrie is not a top 50 player in the NBA (and probably not even a top 10 PG) and we just gave up a top 5 pick in a draft next year that will probably be loaded.Celts traded quantity for quality.
Wow so Ainge thinks the Laker pick was more valuable?? Hm. Western Conference is a hard place for a young team...Jeff Goodman on ESPN saying the holdup was not players but the pick. Cavs wanted Nets pick, Lakers pick or Tatum. Danny gave them the BKN of the other 2 options.
Yeah I don't disagree. Just think the protections (especially the #1 protection) significantly devalue the pick. If it was unprotected Lakers vs. unprotected Nets I would be fine.I think the Lakers in the West are easily worse.
It's been confirmed as unprotected.Has it been confirmed that the Brooklyn pick is unprotected?
LOL....i'm sure Lebron dreams of playing with IT4 and Jae Crowder. Please
Is The Brow actually available? I have not seen anything definitively confirming this. Not trying to snark....just legitimately wondering.Has it been confirmed that the Brooklyn pick is unprotected?
If it's unprotected, I really hate this trade. I'm just stunned that Kyrie Irving was the player that Ainge chose to cash his chips in on, especially with the possibility of The Brow being available.
If you remove Crowder or the Brooklyn pick this trade becomes much more reasonable.
Seems like the only possible way for this to end is LAL getting the #1 pick and Brooklyn getting the #2 and Ainge getting completely screwed on the protections in two separate trades fully bites us in the ass
That is the absolute worst case scenario.Now watch the Lakers pick be #1 and the Nets pick be #2...
Kyrie shot himself out of an awesome situation in Cleveland?
I'm with Ed. I think Kyrie is smarter than people are giving him credit for. He saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to be a part of it, for sensible reasons.LeBron's leaving next season, Gilbert sucks, their coach is a little dude with LeBron's hand up his heiny, and it's Cleveland. The potential moving forward is way better in Boston.
He gets a huge payday regardless, but now is in line to get more with a supermax because he might actually stay in Boston.Kyrie's next season in Clev would have resulted in another trip to the Finals. Then, he endures one year in Clev as the MAN and then gets a huge payday. Wow. That sucks for sure.
If this is true, seems like Celtics should've been able to easily get top #1 protection on BKN pick, and if it hit Cleveland would get Lakers/Kings pick.Jeff Goodman on ESPN saying the holdup was not players but the pick. Cavs wanted Nets pick, Lakers pick or Tatum. Danny gave them the BKN of the other 2 options.
He's 25 years old. You don't think his game can evolve? Also, why is it that he didn't put winning before being the guy? LeBron is as good as gone so he was looking out for his future by requesting a trade. Let's see things play out.Please use statistics to back up your argument. For next season, at least, Cleveland has upgraded assuming Thomas is healthy. If Thomas is not healthy that clearly changes things. But the C's traded a guy who had a +5.4 BPM and 4.8 VORP as well as player with a +1.6 BPM and a 2.1 VORP for a guy who clocks in at +2.5 BPM and 2.9 VORP. In other words, the Celtics traded an older, team-first but more efficient version of Kyrie as well as an above league average three and D wing for a high usage ball-stopper. If the Cavs can get past Golden State (and they have more depth again assuming that Thomas is healthy), I think the calculus changes for James, especially with another young asset aboard - and I think the Cavs will try to pay Thomas if that happens too.
Yes Kyrie has sick handles and yes he CAN play better defense than Thomas. But why hasn't he played consistently better defense? Was he saving it for Brad Stevens? Add the Brooklyn pick and this is a bad bet. Uncle Drew has show no proclivity to be a team guy and that is while playing on a championship contender.
I want to be clear - IT4 is a flawed player and I get the argument in favor of Kyrie over him even if I don't agree. Crowder is a nice value NBA wing. And Zizic is a question mark as is the Brooklyn pick in terms of what it nets. However together this is a massive - and too concentrated - bet that Kyrie comes to Boston and changes his ways after six NBA seasons where he showed that he is a ball-stopper, a disinterested defender and a guy who couldn't put winning before being the alpha. These are facts. I guess he can still change but I won't be holding my breath.
BKN is a much worse team but are in the terrible East. Lakers in the tough West makes it a good argument about win totals. Keeping both picks would have been difficult cap-wise eventually.I think the Lakers in the West are easily worse.
Except it wouldn't be awesome if LBJ left. Kyrie learned from the master. You make the move when you have the leverage. He had it.Kyrie shot himself out of an awesome situation in Cleveland?
He should be thrilled. He got an arguably better player who is significantly younger and more likely to be his teammate long term.I posted a one-liner about it earlier, but I do wonder how much of the Hayward presentation was showing how Hayward would work on the court with IT and now he's gone. Wonder what he's thinking.
No, he's not now but the rumblings were starting to pick up that he would be. It's heavy tea leaf reading but I think you have to assume at this point the Pelicans won't make the playoffs and it's likely Boogie won't resign.Is The Brow actually available? I have not seen anything definitively confirming this. Not trying to snark....just legitimately wondering.
Either LBJ or Kyrie is going for 60 points in opener.Kyrie waived his trade kicker to come to Boston.
IT was used as a heavy recruiter for him. Probably stunned a bit. Just a stone cold assassin move by Ainge.I posted a one-liner about it earlier, but I do wonder how much of the Hayward presentation was showing how Hayward would work on the court with IT and now he's gone. Wonder what he's thinking.
IT is 28 and turns 29 about 6 weeks before Kyrie turns 26.Great thread. Best takeaways for me is that Kyrie is 25 while Isaiah is 29
To quote others- I think its HRB in this forum but other NBA-heads say this as well - at 25, you are what you are in the NBA.He's 25 years old. You don't think his game can evolve? Also, why is it that he didn't put winning before being the guy? LeBron is as good as gone so he was looking out for his future by requesting a trade. Let's see things play out.
I'm not expecting him to turn into the next Avery Bradley on defense. If he can even make just a modest improvement it changes his value.To quote others- I think its HRB in this forum but other NBA-heads say this as well - at 25, you are what you are in the NBA.
This isn't to say Kyrie cannot get better at certain skills because he clearly can still improve physically. However he has also been in the NBA six years. In none of those six years has he ever played what could be called good defense (aside from some small sample sizes in the playoffs and even then he let guys he was guarding get free). He doesn't distribute well and he, by some accounts (of course this could be team LeBron muddying the waters) he isn't a good locker-room guy.
Look, I hope I am wrong and the guy comes to Boston and helps lead them to more banners. However, I have watched enough NBA to know what this guy is - he has amazing handles and can beat anyone off the dribble. However a guy with his skill set who has no interest in playing consistent defense is a huge red flag. I strongly predict that if he pulls his turnstile act here next winter, a lot of people giddy about him now are going to be cursing him. Again, I hope I am wrong...
Good point. Was thinking this too. Publicly he'll say it's all good either way (we know how well he can type up multiple takes for The Players Tribune) but who really knows.I posted a one-liner about it earlier, but I do wonder how much of the Hayward presentation was showing how Hayward would work on the court with IT and now he's gone. Wonder what he's thinking.
Didn't Hayward talk about the team having a lot of assets to improve? I'm sure he knew what he was walking into, an extremely promising but not quite finished rebuild.He should be thrilled. He got an arguably better player who is significantly younger and more likely to be his teammate long term.