View: https://twitter.com/bostonsportsinf/status/1724089008156774751?t=AG5WE6Oa2TC7ACUF18D4kw&s=19
How bad was the quarterback performance yesterday?
How bad was the quarterback performance yesterday?
Mac's Future
- Thread starter TomRicardo
- Start date
He was 2nd in the NFL in passing yards in '73, and the Pats were 2nd in the NFL in scoring in '74. He got hurt early in '75 and then was traded prior to the '76 season. I could never understand the sentiment that he was some kind of huge failure with the Pats. He produced just fine, got hurt, and then the team dealt him.
Did you mean the one from Mac or Zappe?
They are both in complete shambles at this point. No good answers.
I'm still very mad that the Pats didn't draft Hurts. I loved him at Bama and loved him at Oklahoma.
Those are all correct. The problem was that the team's record was 23-38 in the games he started. And in his final healthy season in New England, he was tied for the league lead in interceptions and led the league in percentage of pass attempts intercepted. Those are the stats the fans saw and the media emphasized.
I think the issue is that he was truly touted as the savior coming from the west coast. He found success with the Raiders, but even then it should be noted he was never named to a Pro Bowl team. As a comparison, Stabler made 4 Pro-Bowls and one All-Pro as a Raider.
PSA: you can join Greg Bedard on the ‘Mac Jones can win a Super Bowl, but, alas, Belichick ruined him’ limb. There’s still time!
I just need to ask... what is the best way to prepare crow? Maybe a pot pie? A stew? Maybe rotisserie? I need to eat a bunch of it, so looking for some variety.
I assume the Pats had some off days due to the bye and Germany. But pretty soon BB will be getting questions about who is starting the next game. This should be fun.
And as much as Bill likes to say nothing, someone will get the first team reps in practice and if it’s not Mac, we will know.
The weird thing is - not that bad, at least by the numbers. Just prior to the interception that benched him, I was marvelling at how the Pats had managed to (a) run the ball reasonably successfully (b) have a QB with a 75% completion rate or so throwing for more than 8 yards an attempt on a reasonable number of throws and (c) win the turnover battle (1-0 at that point) and yet still only score 6 points. Obviously the missed field goal doesn't help there, but still. Surely it's all but impossible to achieve that kind of combination?
Mac's line 15/20 for 170 with 0 TD/1 INT for a passer rating of 79.2. Not great, obviously, but not awful by any means.
5 sacks for 22 yards didn't help, but also isn't a disaster. Penalties were in the normal range. I don't quite know how the Pats managed it, tbh. It's like they perfected the bend but don't breakthrough offense or something.
20 attempts for 170 yards is pretty terrible, really. He also never threw to the right side of the field except on the game-losing INT.
8.5 YPA is the opposite of terrible. Now, Mac was not good in the game, but 8.5 YPA in a vacuum is fucking awesome.
QUOTE="lexrageorge, post: 5839534, member: 34669"]
Those are all correct. The problem was that the team's record was 23-38 in the games he started. And in his final healthy season in New England, he was tied for the league lead in interceptions and led the league in percentage of pass attempts intercepted. Those are the stats the fans saw and the media emphasized.
I think the issue is that he was truly touted as the savior coming from the west coast. He found success with the Raiders, but even then it should be noted he was never named to a Pro Bowl team. As a comparison, Stabler made 4 Pro-Bowls and one All-Pro as a Raider.
[/QUOTE]
He had that separated shoulder in the pre-season in ‘75 and they rushed him back-he could barely throw 5 yards.
I guess it worked out, because they got a great haul in the trade, but could’ve been a really different legacy with the Pats.
Those are all correct. The problem was that the team's record was 23-38 in the games he started. And in his final healthy season in New England, he was tied for the league lead in interceptions and led the league in percentage of pass attempts intercepted. Those are the stats the fans saw and the media emphasized.
I think the issue is that he was truly touted as the savior coming from the west coast. He found success with the Raiders, but even then it should be noted he was never named to a Pro Bowl team. As a comparison, Stabler made 4 Pro-Bowls and one All-Pro as a Raider.
[/QUOTE]
He had that separated shoulder in the pre-season in ‘75 and they rushed him back-he could barely throw 5 yards.
I guess it worked out, because they got a great haul in the trade, but could’ve been a really different legacy with the Pats.
Does the 15 completions change that value? He was throwing short passes all day, never tried to push the ball at all.
I don't think there's any argument to be made that he played well on Sunday even if you take out the worst INT any of us will ever see.
Short passes or not 11.3 YPC is also great. Brady career 11.5. Mahomes 12.1.
Yeah--QBs that can CONSISTENTLY go 75% passing, 8.5 YPA, and 11.3 YPC will generally be really good. We just found a game where it was basically meaningless.
However, had he completed that pass and finished 16/20 for 190 yards and TD...
Just to pile on a little but yeah 170 yards in just 20 attempts is absolutely fantastic, no matter how many completions it is.
TONS of things to criticize Mac for but this specific stat isn’t one of them at all.
Just looked up the weekly DVOA report and saw this:
So basically he got helped out a lot by his WEAPONZ, and then when things got important he withered into a useless husk.
I find myself not really caring whether Mac starts the last 7 games or not. I think either option will be somewhat entertaining. I don’t know what some of our residents who cannot hear anything about the team with filtering it through a Mac prism are going to do when he is gone, so there’s that too.
Yeah--might not have really been a great game in that sense, but if a QB consistently put up those kind of numbers, at some point you'd think the QB had something to do with it. Kinda like some pitcher might go 6 innings, give up 5 hits, no walks, and get a win, but didn't pitch well, there were just a lot of balls hit right at fielders, etc. But if you look up and EVERY start that's happening, well, maybe there's something there.
Last edited:
And of course there was the totally meaningless long gain to Douglas at the end of the first half that bumped all the stats. So you’re not wrong saying that Mac wasn’t good on Sunday. We are just taking issue with your claim that 170 yards on 20 passes is “pretty terrible, really”, because it’s the opposite of that.
You have no idea how badly I want to no longer think about Mac Jones on the Patriots.
Yeah. It's just....super misleading. It gives the impression he played well, when, well you know.
Take out the Pop play and it was 14-19 for 140. Far more pedestrian. And I think far in this case to remove because it was pure stat padding.
When you find the person who thinks he played well Sunday, I think you will have a winning argument that they were misled. Just be respectful. Maybe start with something like, “Now, Mrs.Jones, I know you love your son ….”
My point in mentioning it the first place wasn't to say that Mac played well - I thought this was clearly a game where the stats flattered him. More that his results were fine (prior to the interception), the running backs results were fine, the turnovers situation was fine....and yet the Pats still only managed to score 6 points
5 sacks IS a disaster. That's incredibly bad, taking sacks on 1/5 dropbacks. Daniel Jones is currently worst in the NFL at 16%. And four of the sacks came on third down and killed drives.
So this is why ANY/A is a good eyeball stat. Mac's numbers look okay on the surface, high Y/A, decent even if we take out the 30 yard pass to Pop that was the defense just giving us yards since time was done (7.37). However...
2.92 ANY/A is as bad as it gets (Zach Wilson is at 4.29 for the season as a comp)
Someone mentioned YAC, and that definitely tracks, Mac's intended air yards per attempt was 3.6 (the worst qualifier on the season is Tyson Bagent at 5.8).
Basically Mac brought zero positive play and a lot of negatives.
Edit- just for fun his ANY/A if we take out the Pop gift.... 2.62
I'm glad I'm getting the point across. Clarity is sometimes an issue on this board.
I don't know if this has been posted, but Tom Curran is "hearing" that Mac Jones will be the emergency QB moving forward:
https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10097384-patriots-insider-mac-jones-to-be-3rd-string-qb-behind-bailey-zappe-will-grier.amp.html
This tells me that that Patriots have given him every opportunity and Sunday was the final straw and they want him off the team.
And I think that's very fair. BoB going off on him on the sidelines on Sunday was probably close to the edge, but then he had the next drive and that ended with the infamous INT.
I have little real optimism that Zappe or Grier will be any sort of savior, but if they stink at least it will be a new flavour of stink.
Kinda feels like choosing a favorite deck chair now. Sucky QBs and WRs and linemen oh my.
I think it was mostly the WR situation. IIRC they were without Juju and Douglas and it was the first game Thornton was eligible to return so he was a mystery and Boutte was in the doghouse. I think they really wanted Cunningham as WR depth and used the backup QB as a way to get him on the gameday roster.
Many of those were screens that went for a longer distance, one was the 30 yards to pop at halftime, etc.
It's the Herald so take it with a lot of salt, but Callahan says Mac has lost the lockerroom.
View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1724760282092687622
That would seem like the biggest reason to make a move for Bill. Even if you don't think Grier or Zappe actually gives you a better chance to win, if their teammates do.... might as well try it since none of the 3 has a long term future here
View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1724760282092687622
That would seem like the biggest reason to make a move for Bill. Even if you don't think Grier or Zappe actually gives you a better chance to win, if their teammates do.... might as well try it since none of the 3 has a long term future here
I think there was no coming back from being yanked in Sunday's game. When has a QB ever been benched in that situation? 2:00 drill down 6 in the 4th, not injury related? That just doesn't happen. I don't know how you go from taking him out in that situation to starting him the next game.
Agreed. I can't imagine anyone except Mac's grandmother wants him taking snaps for this team anymore. I bet Mac wants this to end now too. Absent an emergency, it will be a bit surprising if we see Jones playing for the Patriots ever again.
Yep, Mac was sacked on third down on 4 of the first 5 drives of the game. The 5th sack was right in the middle of those, and led to a third and long, in which they got 12 yards (pass to Gesicki), but was short of the chains.
Those sacks, and Mac's pick were the entire ballgame.
The running game looked good, but if you're running through holes that look like that, I'd really, really like to see Rham have a longer run than 10 yards, and Zeke have a longer run than 9 yards. When you have 33 carries combined, there has to be at least one that goes for longer than 10 yards. The good news is Zeke broke his first tackle of the season, and Rhamondre got his total up to 9 on the year (so he's now at 1 broken tackle for every 14 carries, last year it was 1 per 8.8). The longest run of the day was Mac's 15 yard scramble.
There is no explosion.
Glad to see that they might be giving Grier a chance, as I predicted a couple days ago. I fully expect coming off a bye week, against a team that should be relegated, he might generate some good stuff, then we can all get excited until reality sets in again.
I've never wanted the Pats to lose in my life, but winning this game would be fucking awful for their future, IMO.
I've run into him several times at a local breakfast joint I go to as well as the post office; he's much more than a "halfway" decent person off the football field, he's pretty fucking far from a total asshole, I can assure you of that.
And I'm with you; I take no joy either watching his career go up in flames, at least in New England.
I wonder how much time Belichick spends with him breaking down film of the upcoming opponents defense like he did with Brady every Tuesday when he was here.