Mac's Future
- Thread starter TomRicardo
- Start date
FWIW apparently Zappe and Cunningham took the QB reps in the media portion of practice this afternoon and Mac took none.
Depends on how we’re defining “starter calibre”, I guess. Let’s say our scouting department views Maye as “starting calibre” but more on the middle or bottom end, say top 18-20 in the league most years, and MHJ as a multi-pro bowl WR, who do you want them taking?
I only want the QB if they think you’re looking at a guy with a reasonable expectation of developing into an impact top 10 guy.
What's the point of having the multi-pro bowl WR if you don't have the QB to get him the ball?
It’s a discussion of value. Would you spend a top 3 pick on young Andy Dalton? He got AJ Green the ball plenty and never won squat.
That's a good question. Tom Brady may be the GOAT, but Dalton is the MAOAT: Most Average Of All Time.
I'd say no. But would the MAOAT be worth a first round pick?
conversely... AJ Green was a no doubt stud top 4 pick and he turned out to be as advertised.... he made zero impact on winning in the NFL, playing 12 seasons and never winning a single playoff game
There is no real way to parse QBs like that... what would that even mean? If you think the best possible outcome for a guy is he's a bottom of the league starter you likely don't have a starter grade on him, since grades aren't based on ceiling.
So, I’d argue that both side’s arguments are valid. Basically, my position is based on what Maye or Daniels projection turns out to be. If you think you have a future top 10-15 QB here, take one and don’t look back. If you don’t like the upside, I go for the high upside skill guy in a league that almost now requires them for teams to be good.
I agree with this. QB is the most important position in sports, and great ones are hard to find but more commonly available at the top of the Draft than anywhere else.
Of course, some will argue, Tom Brady was drafted 199th. And that Brock Purdy was Mr. Irrelevant. And that Dak was taken in the 4th round. And that a few years ago Warren Sharp pointed out that in recent years lots of 1st round QBs have busted (although I have problems with this as a metric):
https://www.foxsports.com/stories/nfl/sharp-the-success-rate-of-first-round-qbs-makes-lamar-jacksons-case-for-him
But look at the Top 8ish NFL teams by record right now:
1) Eagles - Hurts (2nd round)
2) Ravens - Lamar (1st round)
3) Chiefs - Mahomes (1st round)
4) Niners - Purdy (7th round)
5) Jaguars - Lawrence (1st round, #1 overall)
6) Cowboys - Dak (4th round)
7) Lions - Goff (trade for former 1st rounder, #1 overall)
8) Dolphins - Tua (1st round)
So 5 of 8 are 1st round picks, 7 of 8 are with their original team, and that’s not even counting Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, or CJ Stroud or Anthony Richardson who looked good before going down.
Yes, there are other ways to build a good roster. But finding a QB high in the draft remains to me the most straightforward path to sustained success, even though like all paths it is hardly guaranteed to pan out (see: Jones, Mac).
Last edited:
I think if you're that down on the QBs you trade down for sure, because someone else will not be, and the league-wide agreed value to get a top QB is high, much higher than even the top WRs.
Agreed. If I had to handicap the likely BB draft strategies, it would be:
1. Stay put and draft Maye/Daniels
2. Trade down 3-7 spots and draft OT/WR in 7-10 range and pick up more 2024/2025 picks
3. Draft MHJ at #3
There look to be some good 2nd round WRs this year so going Maye/WR round 2 could have some appeal.
Per reports, Zappe and Malik got the first team reps during the portion of practice the writers have access to.
I would. Dalton was a legit NFL starter for a decade. Of course he wasn't an all-timer, but there's tremendous value in having a guy like that. The Dalton of 2011-2016 would be the 3rd best QB in Pats history.
I think I agree with this.
I also think Brady has totally ruined our sense of perspective.
Brady, for example, won as many NFC Championships as Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Steve Young (as a starter).
To have a QB who even consistently gets you to the playoffs is a rare accomplishment.
It kind of goes back to the discussion around Mac during the draft. Some comped him to say, Kirk Cousins. And some said that would not be worth a first round pick; others disagreed.
While I doubt that the Pats would be a true contender with Kirk Cousins as the QB on this year's team, I think most of us agree they'd probably somewhere around 6-5 or 7-4 with decent QB play.
While I doubt that the Pats would be a true contender with Kirk Cousins as the QB on this year's team, I think most of us agree they'd probably somewhere around 6-5 or 7-4 with decent QB play.
100% agreed. And while the combo of AJ Green and Andy Dalton did not advance in the playoffs, they went from 4-12 in 2010 to 5 consecutive winning seasons and playoff berths.
Plus, I think you could argue that with slightly better coaching, that team might have achieved more. Put 2011-2015 BB as their HC/GM and maybe they win an AFC title or a Lombardi
E.g., in 2013, they went 11-5 and won the AFC North, but didn't get a bye. 3 of their losses were by 3 or less. Perhaps they win another game or two, get a bye, etc.
2015, similar story. 12-4. Losses by 4, 3, and 3, then they lost by 2 at home to the Steelers in the playoffs.
Mac starts plenty of scoring drives! It start with him throwing to a DB and then that guy runs into our end zone…
I think this is a fair take and I may eventually come around on it. Top skill position guys can be acquired/bought but QBs almost never can. I think we’ll ultimately go QB. Just hope we pick right.
Yeah, I think that's right. There are plenty of parallel universes where the stars align and Dalton wins a SB in the spirit of Doug Williams, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, etc.
These stats always crack me up.
When you have one guy, taken in the 6th round, occupying 25% of the starting quarterback spots in the conference championships year after year after year, the numbers get a bit skewed.
Kirk Cousins, 2015-2023:
3225-4770, 67.6%, 36,441 yards, 7.6 YPA, 252 TD, 91 INT, 99.9 rating
Dalton 2011-2018:
2443-3921, 62.3%, 28,100 yards, 7.2 YPA, 188 TD, 104 INT; 88.8 rating
Both of these guys are (were) pretty good QBs.
3225-4770, 67.6%, 36,441 yards, 7.6 YPA, 252 TD, 91 INT, 99.9 rating
Dalton 2011-2018:
2443-3921, 62.3%, 28,100 yards, 7.2 YPA, 188 TD, 104 INT; 88.8 rating
Both of these guys are (were) pretty good QBs.
Look at this madness, Brady could maybe make the HOF 4 times, I don't think 3 is in doubt
| NAME | GP | CMP | ATT | PCT | YDS | AVG | YDS/G | TD | RATE |
| BRADY | 10 | 277 | 421 | 65.8 | 3,039 | 7.2 | 303.9 | 21 | 97.7 |
| ELWAY | 5 | 76 | 152 | 50 | 1,128 | 7.4 | 225.6 | 3 | 59.3 |
| P MANNING | 4 | 103 | 155 | 66.5 | 1,001 | 6.5 | 250.3 | 3 | 77.4 |
| J KELLY | 4 | 81 | 145 | 55.9 | 829 | 5.7 | 207.3 | 2 | 56.9 |
| MONTANA | 4 | 83 | 122 | 68 | 1,142 | 9.4 | 285.5 | 11 | 127.8 |
| BRADSHAW | 4 | 49 | 84 | 58.3 | 932 | 11.1 | 233 | 9 | 112.8 |
| STAUBACH | 4 | 61 | 98 | 62.2 | 734 | 7.5 | 183.5 | 8 | 95.4 |
| MAHOMES | 3 | 73 | 118 | 61.9 | 738 | 6.3 | 246 | 5 | 79.7 |
| BEN | 3 | 55 | 91 | 60.4 | 642 | 7.1 | 214 | 3 | 69.9 |
| KURT | 3 | 83 | 132 | 62.9 | 1,156 | 8.8 | 385.3 | 6 | 96.7 |
| TROY | 3 | 56 | 80 | 70 | 689 | 8.6 | 229.7 | 5 | 111.9 |
| FRAN | 3 | 46 | 89 | 51.7 | 489 | 5.5 | 163 | 1 | 43.7 |
| GRIESE | 3 | 26 | 41 | 63.4 | 295 | 7.2 | 98.3 | 1 | 72.7 |
| RUSS | 2 | 30 | 46 | 65.2 | 453 | 9.8 | 226.5 | 4 | 117.4 |
| E MANNING | 2 | 49 | 74 | 66.2 | 551 | 7.4 | 275.5 | 3 | 96.2 |
| FAVRE | 2 | 39 | 69 | 56.5 | 502 | 7.3 | 251 | 5 | 97.6 |
| YOUNG | 2 | 26 | 39 | 66.7 | 345 | 8.8 | 172.5 | 6 | 134.1 |
| THEISMAN | 2 | 31 | 58 | 53.4 | 386 | 6.7 | 193 | 2 | 57.1 |
| PLUNKETT | 2 | 29 | 46 | 63 | 433 | 9.4 | 216.5 | 4 | 122.8 |
What's funny is that Young's 2 GP is really 1. He threw twice as many TDs in a single Super Bowl as Manning did in 4 Super Bowls combined.
Right, I edited out garbage time guys but didnt correct for Young only starting in one game (or any others if that applies).
Totally, and part of what I meant — it’s just a weird metric and like many of these stats loses the thread a little for me.
Agree with the bolded. I try my best to not compare anyone or anything to Brady, since he's the unicorn of all unicorns.
I'm trying to compare guys to an era-adjusted Bledsoe. He clearly was good enough to lead a consistent playoff team that made a Super Bowl as well (F you Bill Parcells and Desmond Howard).
I suspect that if Bledsoe played today his completion % would be a good 5-6 points higher and he'd have 4-5 fewer picks each year, just given how much more the short passing game is utilized today (and how coaches want to crucify their QB when they throw picks). Drew in his prime years was probably in the #6-#12 range of best QBs in the league.
We can win with that. We've seen it before.
do we really think BB is going to be at the draft room in 2024? I would be stunned if he is still involved.
A 2023 version of Bledsoe could absolutely compete at the top of the conference with decent pieces around him. A 2023 Terry Glenn would also go off. And Curtis Martin. That build from 1993 is really the blueprint for what they need to do going forward. Easier said than done.
Agree that it’s easier said than done. But it’s also why I said I’d happily take Maye if he turns out to be Andy Dalton. Give me 6-7 years of that, fill out the roster, and take our shots.
Drew was in his prime for 6-7 years at best. And he was never a top 5 QB. No one regrets taking him at the top of the draft.
I mean, the only way he won't be is if he's not with the Patriots anymore. If he's still the HC, 100% he will be in the draft room.
I am really excited to see the team moving on from Mac, even if it does not turn out to be forever. I hope it is though because the level of suck that would be required for him to earn another shot this year is hard to comprehend.
I took the tweet I saw not the Kyed story because I thought this was an interesting take at the end. The one-sided narrative one makes sense to a degree because of the snide remarks, the passive aggressive stuff, and the tantrums and the coaches and to a lesser extent his fellow players from him the last couple years.
View: https://twitter.com/LosTalksPats/status/1729976611125240250
It is believed that Mac Jones is “lacking confidence in himself, his teammates and the scheme…” A source from within the #Patriots believes these factors are causing him to “spiral” Bill O’Brien and Jones’ teammates have always voiced their support for him, but maybe that feeling was always one-sided. (via @DougKyed)
https://twitter.com/LosTalksPats/status/1729976611125240250/photo/1
I took the tweet I saw not the Kyed story because I thought this was an interesting take at the end. The one-sided narrative one makes sense to a degree because of the snide remarks, the passive aggressive stuff, and the tantrums and the coaches and to a lesser extent his fellow players from him the last couple years.
View: https://twitter.com/LosTalksPats/status/1729976611125240250
It is believed that Mac Jones is “lacking confidence in himself, his teammates and the scheme…” A source from within the #Patriots believes these factors are causing him to “spiral” Bill O’Brien and Jones’ teammates have always voiced their support for him, but maybe that feeling was always one-sided. (via @DougKyed)
https://twitter.com/LosTalksPats/status/1729976611125240250/photo/1
Good quarterbacks are better with good players and coaches. But good quarterbacks don't "spiral" or "collapse" like Mac has. They are just less good.
I chuckle when I hear stories about the team related reasons for Mac being so bad.... he just isn't any good. It's not complicated.
With Zappe basically confirmed as a starter it's clear they are done with Mac (not that there was much doubt). Zappe was cut after the preseason and hasn't been any good when he has played, yet is still getting the start. I don't think BoB or BB think Zappe will do much, but they just can't stomach watching Mac do his thing anymore.
I chuckle when I hear stories about the team related reasons for Mac being so bad.... he just isn't any good. It's not complicated.
With Zappe basically confirmed as a starter it's clear they are done with Mac (not that there was much doubt). Zappe was cut after the preseason and hasn't been any good when he has played, yet is still getting the start. I don't think BoB or BB think Zappe will do much, but they just can't stomach watching Mac do his thing anymore.
So, damn, Mac is starting, and Bill has pulled another fast one on the media.
That's all he has left for fun.
Zappe will start, get injured on the first drive, and Mac will come in. I'm imagining the game thread
How about as a bookend to Bledsoe’s “Cadillac in the garage” game when Bill dusted him off to win the ‘01 AFC Championship and help start a dynasty.
Except this time Mac is a Pinto, comes in with a 10-6 lead and throws one final back footed pick-6 to ensure a top two draft pick.
Remember last year when Mac got hurt and we were despondent that a the season was over.
Seems like a thousand years ago.
He's baaAAAaack!
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1729616470106120702?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Patriots are re-signing QB Will Grier, whom they released over the weekend, to their practice squad.
View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1729616470106120702?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Patriots are re-signing QB Will Grier, whom they released over the weekend, to their practice squad.
And it used to be that backup quarterback was the best job in sports. Now it might be the guy who spends the season getting paid for riding the waiver shuttle
Grier is QB3 has been a luxury position for years now, with lots of guys bouncing between practice squads and couches in their rec rooms. The whole PS-to-main eligibility and 3rd emergency designee has just made it worse. You're screwed if QB3 is playing any meaningful snaps anyhow, so why roster them?
Per the Athletic, Zappe starting, Malik will have a package of plays, and Mac is unlikely to play
100%. It's time to figure out whether Malik or Zappe have anything to offer. I suspect the answer is no, but this is as good a time as any to see.
Deciding whether to start the Rams' D (v Flacco) or the Chargers' D (against the Pats) is a real head-scratcher.
I would think the answer is already 100% "no" on Zappe at this point. I am interested to see what Malik has to offer.
Yea, this is the most excited I’ve been in awhile for a game because at least Malik’s plays will be potentially entertaining. I’m 100% certain Zappe isn’t gonna show anything
We had a package for Cunningham earlier this season and he played 6 snaps. Hopefully he gets a few more this time.