Manning Legacy: Scrotal Recall

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
10,025
Boston, MA
Chuck Todd just did a report on this on MSNBC and interviewed the NY Times reporter that connected certain dots between sly and a trainer in Florida that trains Howard, Zimmerman and Neal. No real new ground in the report (about 10 minutes), but the thrust of the report was that there is more to it than just a an intern who recanted his statements.
 

Kevin Youkulele

wishes Claude Makelele was a Red Sox
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2006
8,935
San Diego
Wouldn't the burden actually be on the plaintiffs to prove falsity?
I think yes as long as they are considered public figures. The statement that "truth is a defense" (i.e., burden is on the defendant) is generally correct for defamation suits by private individuals (e.g., some non-famous dude slandered by a former employer giving a bad professional reference), subject to possible variation in some states.
 

Tim Salmon

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 24, 2005
3,313
I think yes as long as they are considered public figures. The statement that "truth is a defense" (i.e., burden is on the defendant) is generally correct for defamation suits by private individuals (e.g., some non-famous dude slandered by a former employer giving a bad professional reference), subject to possible variation in some states.
Yeah, my (fuzzy) recollection is that defamation plaintiffs have to prove that the challenged statements are false if they are public figures, and that the burden also extends to private figures if the statements involve a matter of public concern.

I think the allocation of burden is especially significant where medical records are involved. Arguably, AJ could be expected to prove the truth of the allegations about HGH without Zimmerman's and Howard's private medical records, as AJ didn't rely on the contents of those records in sourcing its story. But I don't see any way that Zimmerman and Howard could affirmatively prove that the statements were false (or that they could reasonably have been discovered to be false) without releasing all of their medical records during discovery.
 
Last edited:

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
SoSH Member
Jan 10, 2004
24,563
The 718
Yeah, my (fuzzy) recollection is that defamation plaintiffs have to prove that the challenged statements are false if they are public figures, and that the burden also extends to private figures if the statements involve a matter of public concern.

I think the allocation of burden is especially significant where medical records are involved. Arguably, AJ could be expected to prove the truth of the allegations about HGH without Zimmerman's and Howard's private medical records, as AJ didn't rely on the contents of those records in sourcing it's story. But I don't see any way that Zimmerman and Howard could affirmatively prove that the statements were false (or that they could reasonably have been discovered to be false) without releasing all of their medical records during discovery.

You're right and I was careless posting.

The point remains- anyone suing AJ for defamation would have to expose themselves publicly.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
44,223
Here
Once Teagarden showed up to grab some quality HGH from Sly, AJ's defense basically became air-tight. Publishing Sly's other statements on his alleged clients--given his knowledge of the chemicals and access to them and athletes--was not reckless, and there is certainly no positive evidence to suggest that any of this is false, let alone that AJ published it knowing so.

Ideally for these athletes, assuming innocence, Sly would be the guy to sue. However, Sly had no idea these statements would be made public and when they did he disavowed his statements, so they are basically screwed from that angle, too, since they can't meet the publication element against Sly. Brady has a better case against the NFL than anyone does here against AJ, provided he can establish that the NFL gave Mort the info, which probably can't be proven in court unfortunately. I would say the odds of giving up his source willingly on that are...quite low.

If any of these guys are actually innocent, you do have to feel bad for them. I would bet against any of them actually being innocent, but I have been wrong once or twice before.

Edit - Hmm, not so sure on the publication element from Sly's perspective, actually. "Publication" in standard defamation cases can occur when a false statement is communicated to even one person. I don't know if public figure cases raises the standard from one person to a more broad audience or not. My guess would be yes, but I can't find anything quickly to confirm that. He also did quickly retract the statement, so my guess is he'd still be ok.
 
Last edited:

awallstein

New Member
Nov 17, 2014
101
Wouldn't the burden actually be on the plaintiffs to prove falsity?
Yes, the plaintiff must always prove each element of his claim (usually by a preponderance of the evidence); namely, that the defendant 1) made a communication 2) to a third party 3) of false statements 4) which an ordinary person would find damaging to his character. When the plaintiff is a public figure, he must also demonstrate (by clear and convincing evidence) that the statement was made 5) with malice (knowingly false, or with reckless disregard for truth).

For matters "of public concern", but not involving public figures, the malice showing is only required for punitive or presumed damages (actual injury need not involve malice).

Any demonstration of truth by AJ would serve to undermine the establishment of part 3 above.
 
Last edited:

garzooma

New Member
Mar 4, 2011
126
Chuck Todd just did a report on this on MSNBC and interviewed the NY Times reporter that connected certain dots between sly and a trainer in Florida that trains Howard, Zimmerman and Neal. No real new ground in the report (about 10 minutes), but the thrust of the report was that there is more to it than just a an intern who recanted his statements.
As I read the Times report, the dots are pretty easily connected:

Riley and Sly founded Elementz Nutrition, a nutritional supplement company whose website and Facebook page feature many of the athletes Sly mentioned on camera. Zimmerman was featured on the website; Howard, Neal and Keller (who is also featured on the website) appeared on the Facebook page.​

In other words, Zimmerman & Howard publicly endorsed Sly's company. IANAL, but I don't think AJ has much to worry about.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

Homeland Security
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2005
19,615
Portsmouth, NH
I don't disagree. For Howard, these allegations have little affect on his future. However, I could see Ryan as a potential borderline HOF if he's able to recover and play well over the next 5-6 years. Perhaps for Ryan, dispelling the allegations may have implications for HOF voters? I'll admit I'm sort of grasping at straws here.
We knew that when you suggested that Ryan Zimmermann is a potential HoF candidate, in any future scenario.
 

Harry Hooper

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
34,615
Once Teagarden showed up to grab some quality HGH from Sly, AJ's defense basically became air-tight. Publishing Sly's other statements on his alleged clients--given his knowledge of the chemicals and access to them and athletes--was not reckless, and there is certainly no positive evidence to suggest that any of this is false, let alone that AJ published it knowing so.
I don't know if it's that simple given that Sly probably told AJ repeatedly before broadcast that what he said on camera was not the truth and they should scrap it.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,271
I don't know if it's that simple given that Sly probably told AJ repeatedly before broadcast that what he said on camera was not the truth and they should scrap it.
Yet, he was in the apartment with Teagarden who was openly discussing his use of these drugs. So, is his position that only the car scenes were lies?
 

RG33

Certain Class of Poster
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2005
7,239
CA
I don't know, looks like his head is almost a full inch taller.

okay. I have a giant head. I just measured it -- 10 inches from my chin to the top of my head. This is me standing 6 inches behind Peyton (on a downward slope, we are both about 6'5". He has a GINORMOUS head now. image.jpeg
 

Lowrielicious

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 19, 2011
4,328
okay. I have a giant head. I just measured it -- 10 inches from my chin to the top of my head. This is me standing 6 inches behind Peyton (on a downward slope, we are both about 6'5". He has a GINORMOUS head now. View attachment 1266
You need to go full Exponent and shop that picture so your shoulder is in front of his so it looks like he is standing behind you.
 

Bleedred

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 21, 2001
10,025
Boston, MA
Toucher and Rich interviewed the NY Times reporter this morning (the same one that appeared with Chuck Todd last night). He said that they are continuing the investigation in all of its forms, and pulling on all the threads to see where it will end up.
 

Investor 11

Plobbably the greatest videographer ever
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2006
3,916
San Diego
John Clayton on local San Diego radio right now. Host asked him if the media is treating this differently because Peyton is a media darling.

Paraphrasing Claytons response, he said that it's because the report was weak. It was an unpaid intern claiming something not from 2012, 2013, or 2014 but from 2011. So even if he was using he wasn't playing that season and the league wasn't testing for it and he's a person trying to recover from multiple neck surgeries. Doesn't know if there is a performance boost from that.

Continued on to say that the whole documentary put the focus on Manning yet the AJ people go out of their way to say it went to his house and they aren't saying he used. So where is the story? Lots of things get sent to people's houses.


The host, although he had plenty to push back on after Clayton's answer, asked if he believed it was because AJ was the source that it wasn't being spoke of more. Clayton said that absolutely isn't the case.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,992
Los Angeles, CA
John Clayton on local San Diego radio right now. Host asked him if the media is treating this differently because Peyton is a media darling.

Paraphrasing Claytons response, he said that it's because the report was weak. It was an unpaid intern claiming something not from 2012, 2013, or 2014 but from 2011. So even if he was using he wasn't playing that season and the league wasn't testing for it and he's a person trying to recover from multiple neck surgeries. Doesn't know if there is a performance boost from that.

Continued on to say that the whole documentary put the focus on Manning yet the AJ people go out of their way to say it went to his house and they aren't saying he used. So where is the story? Lots of things get sent to people's houses.


The host, although he had plenty to push back on after Clayton's answer, asked if he believed it was because AJ was the source that it wasn't being spoke of more. Clayton said that absolutely isn't the case.
Hahaha...he's absolutely tripping over his own feet trying to come up with excuses there. Let's see, working backwards...
  • It wasn't sent to his house
  • But if it was sent to his house, then it wasn't HGH.
  • But if it was HGH, he didn't take it.
  • But if he did take it, then it doesn't work.
  • But if it does work, he only did it for recovery.
  • At the end of the day, it was so long ago, who really cares or remembers?
  • But if people do care, that guy was just an unpaid intern.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,162
And no mention of Teagarden...?
...because no one cares about him. Google shows more hits for "Taylor Teagarden wife" than "Taylor Teagarden."

On the other hand, not being a celebrity lowers the bar for a defamation suit, so there's that...
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,271
...because no one cares about him. Google shows more hits for "Taylor Teagarden wife" than "Taylor Teagarden."

On the other hand, not being a celebrity lowers the bar for a defamation suit, so there's that...
I get that nobody cares about a journeyman catcher but anyone looking critically at this story would immediately notice the disconnect between Sly recanting everything and the fact that Sly had an actual professional athlete show up at his door to discuss all this stuff. I get that journalists/media today are awful but holy shit, this is easy.

As Belichick would say...DO...YOUR...JOB!
 

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,674
Oregon

Hendu At The Wall

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2005
108
Woodstock, NY
So even if he was using he wasn't playing that season and the league wasn't testing for it...
But - he was trying to play that season and HGH was banned by the NFL. It's not like he was IR'ed. If the report is true, he was using while on the active roster. I'd also be surprised if he wasn't tested during that time.

But this is all a giant red herring. Peyton Manning in 2011 was subject to the rules of the league, and the passage of 5 years doesn't really enter into it.

There are 3 camps:
1) He didn't do it.
2) He did it, but it was a long time ago/ for an injury/ not a big deal because everyone does it.
3) He did it and there should be some type of reckoning.

My real issue is with those in Camp 2. If people want to rationalize, shouldn't they hold Manning accountable for an admission of wrongdoing first? It's acceptable to excuse what he did, I suppose, but then you have to call him out for lying about it.

Folks like Clayton seem to be OK with Manning lying to their face (since they believe he lied but never raise it as an issue).
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,684
What is fascinating to me is how seemingly indestructible Peyton's image is. Most people seem to accept that he has been horrible this year, but he was horrible last year too and no one said anything. No one in the media brings up the sexual misconduct from his college days. Now in the midst of the HGH allegations the national media is still relentlessly praising his character and dismissing the allegations.

There has to be a tipping point somewhere.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
I want to know what Tony Dungy knew, and when he knew it.

He should be banned from football.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
What is fascinating to me is how seemingly indestructible Peyton's image is. Most people seem to accept that he has been horrible this year, but he was horrible last year too and no one said anything. No one in the media brings up the sexual misconduct from his college days. Now in the midst of the HGH allegations the national media is still relentlessly praising his character and dismissing the allegations.

There has to be a tipping point somewhere.
For me it was when I first tried a Papa John's pizza. What kind of monster would pitch that?

[Incidentally I live in NYC and have been catching a lot of flak from colleagues about what a dick Brady is because of how obnoxious he appears to be about his diet. Somehow humming about chicken parm makes you a great guy and trying to get people to eat healthy foods makes you an ass. Oh vey.]
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
For me it was when I first tried a Papa John's pizza. What kind of monster would pitch that?

[Incidentally I live in NYC and have been catching a lot of flak from colleagues about what a dick Brady is because of how obnoxious he appears to be about his diet. Somehow humming about chicken parm makes you a great guy and trying to get people to eat healthy foods makes you an ass. Oh vey.]
This is what I was talking about in the Brady Chef thread; Brady goes out of his way to not talk about himself, probably out of some combination of wanting to stay private and a recognition that he lives a very privileged (read: "different") life. Yet when details about his private life emerge, he's taken to task on it.

Manning farts all over the airwaves, shoves his ugly mug in everyone's face at every opportunity, but whenever private details emerge (say, about certain mail arriving to his house), it's off limits and "aw shucks."

People say they want their athletes to shut up, but they really don't. They want their athletes (and rock stars, and Kardashians) to affirm their lifestyle. Manning phonies it up to curry favor with the morons of the world, Brady "just plays football." The former is a hero, the latter is a 'shady' pretty boy. OK.

People who think Brady will go into politics are insane. Manning, however? I'd put even odds on a Congressional run at some point in his life.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,162
This is what I was talking about in the Brady Chef thread; Brady goes out of his way to not talk about himself, probably out of some combination of wanting to stay private and a recognition that he lives a very privileged (read: "different") life. Yet when details about his private life emerge, he's taken to task on it.

Manning farts all over the airwaves, shoves his ugly mug in everyone's face at every opportunity, but whenever private details emerge (say, about certain mail arriving to his house), it's off limits and "aw shucks."

People say they want their athletes to shut up, but they really don't. They want their athletes (and rock stars, and Kardashians) to affirm their lifestyle. Manning phonies it up to curry favor with the morons of the world, Brady "just plays football." The former is a hero, the latter is a 'shady' pretty boy. OK.

People who think Brady will go into politics are insane. Manning, however? I'd put even odds on a Congressional run at some point in his life.
If that day comes, it'll be interesting to see if the political process is as gentle with his drug and sex transgressions as the tame hands at the WWL
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,603
Somewhere
This is what I was talking about in the Brady Chef thread; Brady goes out of his way to not talk about himself, probably out of some combination of wanting to stay private and a recognition that he lives a very privileged (read: "different") life. Yet when details about his private life emerge, he's taken to task on it.
Brady's diet is ludicrous. He's getting mocked for it because 1) it's so different from what regular people eat -- not just in America, but everywhere and 2) the justification for the diet is completely ungrounded in reality.

As for Manning, he gets a pass the same way so many well-connected assholes do: he makes friends with the people who regulate his sport and the journalists who play a large role in determining public opinion. He can exert his influence, through his reps (who conveniently rep other media figures) and his commercial value. I'm not sure he exerts the same level of control/omerta that Lance did, but there are parallels.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,552
If that day comes, it'll be interesting to see if the political process is as gentle with his drug and sex transgressions as the tame hands at the WWL
Those are prerequisites to joining the political process, no?
 

Kevin Youkulele

wishes Claude Makelele was a Red Sox
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2006
8,935
San Diego
What is fascinating to me is how seemingly indestructible Peyton's image is. Most people seem to accept that he has been horrible this year, but he was horrible last year too and no one said anything. No one in the media brings up the sexual misconduct from his college days. Now in the midst of the HGH allegations the national media is still relentlessly praising his character and dismissing the allegations.

There has to be a tipping point somewhere.
Dead girl/live boy
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,121
Newton
Hahaha...he's absolutely tripping over his own feet trying to come up with excuses there. Let's see, working backwards...
  • It wasn't sent to his house
  • But if it was sent to his house, then it wasn't HGH.
  • But if it was HGH, he didn't take it.
  • But if he did take it, then it doesn't work.
  • But if it does work, he only did it for recovery.
  • At the end of the day, it was so long ago, who really cares or remembers?
  • But if people do care, that guy was just an unpaid intern.
http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/john-clayton-there-is-no-proof-that-peyton-manning-took-hgh/

They've posted the interview in case anyone is interested in hearing it directly from Clayton. The relevant part starts at 1:55.
Holy shit, even knowing what Clayton was going to say, this is absolutely infuriating to listen to. Finn's piece is great, but put aside Nantz and King's comments: listening to Clayton, there can be zero doubt that reporters are intentionally looking the other way and tying themselves in knots to do so.

As my wife said, it's also making abundantly clear why Al Jazeera broke this story: because they don't have a horse in this race. Unlike, well, pretty much every other major media organization in the United States. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if independence from American corporate interests is a major reason AJ have been so successful in attracting so many talented reporters from the likes of the NYT and elsewhere.

All that said, the more I see takes from reporters like Clayton, the more I think that a) Manning did take HGH and b) Peyton's reputation is ultimately going to get destroyed by this. Despite Ari Fleischer's best efforts, I just don't think you can keep this kind of story under wraps in 2016.
 

Kevin Youkulele

wishes Claude Makelele was a Red Sox
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2006
8,935
San Diego
Holy shit, even knowing what Clayton was going to say, this is absolutely infuriating to listen to. Finn's piece is great, but put aside Nantz and King's comments: listening to Clayton, there can be zero doubt that reporters are intentionally looking the other way and tying themselves in knots to do so.

As my wife said, it's also making abundantly clear why Al Jazeera broke this story: because they don't have a horse in this race. Unlike, well, pretty much every other major media organization in the United States. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if independence from American corporate interests is a major reason AJ have been so successful in attracting so many talented reporters from the likes of the NYT and elsewhere.

All that said, the more I see takes from reporters like Clayton, the more I think that a) Manning did take HGH and b) Peyton's reputation is ultimately going to get destroyed by this. Despite Ari Fleischer's best efforts, I just don't think you can keep this kind of story under wraps in 2016.
The Al Jazeera brand seems to have negative equity in the US. I wonder if the story would have gotten more traction if AJ had a subsidiary with a generic name like International News Agency or some such.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
27,121
Newton
"If the glove doesn't fit, you acquit."

Clayton actually said that.

So - is Pey-Pey every bit as innocent as OJ?

It's time to find the real drug-takers!
Like Derek Jeter?

I think ultimately, it is that kind of thing that is going to blow this story open. Celebrities and large corporate entities still feel like they can manage stories in 2016 the way they did 30 years ago -- with press releases, intimidation and by discrediting sources. What they don't realize is that the game has changed since social media entered the mix.

Just ask Bill Cosby.
 

mwonow

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 4, 2005
7,162
Like Derek Jeter?

I think ultimately, it is that kind of thing that is going to blow this story open. Celebrities and large corporate entities still feel like they can manage stories in 2016 the way they did 30 years ago -- with press releases, intimidation and by discrediting sources. What they don't realize is that the game has changed since social media entered the mix.

Just ask Bill Cosby.
Your lips to God's ears, without any Dungy editorial proselytizing in between...
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
Brady's diet is ludicrous. He's getting mocked for it because 1) it's so different from what regular people eat -- not just in America, but everywhere and 2) the justification for the diet is completely ungrounded in reality.

As for Manning, he gets a pass the same way so many well-connected assholes do: he makes friends with the people who regulate his sport and the journalists who play a large role in determining public opinion. He can exert his influence, through his reps (who conveniently rep other media figures) and his commercial value. I'm not sure he exerts the same level of control/omerta that Lance did, but there are parallels.
The people I'm referring to were calling him a "dick" and "pretentious" about his diet. Their problem wasn't with his eccentric, but very healthy, diet. Likewise he also caught some flack nationally a few months ago for calling Coca-Cola poison. I get why people are mocking him but I find it very revealing that people mock a guy for being an earnest and passionate fitness nut while we like the jovial corporate shill.
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
15,005
Silver Spring, MD
I don't know how widespread Bomani Jones's radio show is on ESPN. I catch him for a few minutes every once in a while on my drive home. Yesterday he was hammering the media's hands off treatment of Peyton, basically ridiculing the way Archie and Peyton have been able to construct this aw shucks regular guy image for someone who has been southern, rich football royalty his entire life.
 
Dec 21, 2015
1,410
People say they want their athletes to shut up, but they really don't. They want their athletes (and rock stars, and Kardashians) to affirm their lifestyle. Manning phonies it up to curry favor with the morons of the world, Brady "just plays football." The former is a hero, the latter is a 'shady' pretty boy. OK.
Great post leather, and agreed on Brady's dim chances of running for office. I mean, maybe he could win in Massachusetts because who the hell isn't going to vote for Tom Brady, but something tells me he won't be interested in the limelight in the first place - unless he takes up some political cause, and then decides he can best advance it by taking a Tom Osborne path. I think the same may happen with Jon Stewart.

What is fascinating to me is how seemingly indestructible Peyton's image is. Most people seem to accept that he has been horrible this year, but he was horrible last year too and no one said anything. No one in the media brings up the sexual misconduct from his college days. Now in the midst of the HGH allegations the national media is still relentlessly praising his character and dismissing the allegations.

There has to be a tipping point somewhere.
Frankly, I'm no fan of Manning, but I think all the callbacks to this incident (and I've read a few of them in this and the other thread) are kinda grasping a bit too far. The guy was a douchebag, he had to pay a settlement for it (twice! because he couldn't shut up), but he was also 19 years old. I don't think we should be judging the Peyton Manning of 2016 based on what happened in 1996, as if it's a clear guide to his character today, any more than most of us in our 30s would want to be judged on everything we did when we were 19. In nearly all cases, punishment shouldn't be a permanent, eternal thing. There are much better ways to evaluate Peyton through things he is still doing, or recently did (as alleged by Sly).
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
.....whose body is breaking down faster than an ice cube in a urinal.
I'll bet Peyton is actually similar to Brady and does all kinds of crazy diet and exercise things--we know he takes HGH and I'm sure he has some elaborate stretching/massage/weight lifting/acupuncture/yoga/medicine routine. But folks are willing to think he's just an ordinary guy because he pretends to drive a buick and like chicken parm
 

jtn46

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 10, 2004
9,775
Norwalk, CT
Thing is, at some point this will be investigated. MLB at the very minimum has to investigate Teagarden but MLB is never shy about going full bore on these things, so if Howard and others are involved they won't be hesitant to suspend. If players like Howard and Teagarden are serving suspensions the NFL can't just continue to let its media partners look the other way and make it go away, there are a lot of rationalizations now. I don't think we ever get to a point where a large percentage of the media or fans believe that Manning did HGH, but it will be a real stretch for them to believe the MLB guys are guilty and the NFL guys like Neal and Keller are innocent, and for many that will give Sly's story credibility.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,614
I'll bet Peyton is actually similar to Brady and does all kinds of crazy diet and exercise things--we know he takes HGH and I'm sure he has some elaborate stretching/massage/weight lifting/acupuncture/yoga/medicine routine. But folks are willing to think he's just an ordinary guy because he pretends to drive a buick and like chicken parm
I don't doubt it. I was just pointing out the snark aimed Brady's way for his diet at the same time that *he's* the healthy one. (I know....lots of luck involved there, too.)
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,684
Thing is, at some point this will be investigated. MLB at the very minimum has to investigate Teagarden but MLB is never shy about going full bore on these things, so if Howard and others are involved they won't be hesitant to suspend. If players like Howard and Teagarden are serving suspensions the NFL can't just continue to let its media partners look the other way and make it go away, there are a lot of rationalizations now. I don't think we ever get to a point where a large percentage of the media or fans believe that Manning did HGH, but it will be a real stretch for them to believe the MLB guys are guilty and the NFL guys like Neal and Keller are innocent, and for many that will give Sly's story credibility.
If Peyton has retired by then, does this story fail to stick to him?
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,684
Frankly, I'm no fan of Manning, but I think all the callbacks to this incident (and I've read a few of them in this and the other thread) are kinda grasping a bit too far. The guy was a douchebag, he had to pay a settlement for it (twice! because he couldn't shut up), but he was also 19 years old. I don't think we should be judging the Peyton Manning of 2016 based on what happened in 1996, as if it's a clear guide to his character today, any more than most of us in our 30s would want to be judged on everything we did when we were 19. In nearly all cases, punishment shouldn't be a permanent, eternal thing. There are much better ways to evaluate Peyton through things he is still doing, or recently did (as alleged by Sly).
I'm not so much attempting to draw a connection from the use of HGH to the sexual misconduct as much as I am trying to point to an example of the national media treating Peyton differently than others, especially as it relates to his ability to spin a story to meet his desire.

From the very same article that you linked to:

Within hours of the incident, the trainer reported it to the Sexual Assault Crisis Center in Knoxville. She reached a settlement with the University in 1997 and left Knoxville.

Why is any of this relevant? In 2001, she was the program director of the Athletic Training Educational Program at Florida Southern College. In 2002, Manning’s book came out and the “vulgar” label hit the trainer. She lost her job as the program director.

Manning settled out of court with the trainer in 2003. She came after Manning again in 2005 after he violated the settlement by talking to ESPN about it.
The incident itself is old news, but the idea that ESPN left his version of the event unchallenged is telling.