Matt Barnes sent down
- Thread starter soxhop411
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Yes, because HE is the problem. I just wanted him to bank a few extra bucks over the break. I don't think Pawtucket is playing for anything. He could throw on the side to stay sharp.Stan Papi Was Framed said:
Breslow as the last guy out of the bullpen is about eleventeenth billion on the list of problems the team needs to address. And, as Mr. Barne's flameout demonstrates, the minors are not littered with warm bodies who will automatically be better than Breslow.Stan Papi Was Framed said:
The man was Thomas Reid, and it was in the context of the "chain of reasoning" involved in making a logical argument. A baseball team isn't vaguely linear in structure, and the expression offers no support for your season-long hard-on to get Breslow off the team.Hee Sox Choi said:
I have to say that in a season full of disappointments, Matt Barnes inability to establish himself as a power reliever is one of the bigger ones.
Even with the brilliance of Rodriguez and the promise of Johnson for the 2nd half, the attrition rate in last year's crop of pitching prospects is still really depressing. RDLR and Webster turned into a borderline 5th starter on a long term contract. Barnes has flopped. Kelly has flopped. Owens has stalled. Wright has stalled, perhaps in part due to being jerked around. Workman is having TJS. Escobar missed 3 months and has an ERA north of 10; probably also headed for TJS. Hembree is out indefinitely. Drake Britton dumbed himself out of the game.
Wilson is doing wonderfully in Detroit, however. :smithicide:
And don't look lower in the minors for any hope on the pitching front. I think the best prospect is in the Gulf Coast League.
Even with the brilliance of Rodriguez and the promise of Johnson for the 2nd half, the attrition rate in last year's crop of pitching prospects is still really depressing. RDLR and Webster turned into a borderline 5th starter on a long term contract. Barnes has flopped. Kelly has flopped. Owens has stalled. Wright has stalled, perhaps in part due to being jerked around. Workman is having TJS. Escobar missed 3 months and has an ERA north of 10; probably also headed for TJS. Hembree is out indefinitely. Drake Britton dumbed himself out of the game.
Wilson is doing wonderfully in Detroit, however. :smithicide:
And don't look lower in the minors for any hope on the pitching front. I think the best prospect is in the Gulf Coast League.
Can't say I disagree with most of this, but re: this part, you'd do well to check out Michael Kopech.Plympton91 said:
Are there any Red Sox players who are actually outperforming their pre-season projections besides ERod? Holt...Maybe pedroia? Kioji? De aza?
This team is a world of disappointment. Bad signings, bad trades and bad player development. Their process is flawed and it needs to be fixed
This team is a world of disappointment. Bad signings, bad trades and bad player development. Their process is flawed and it needs to be fixed
Agreed with most of this but I wouldn't worry too much about Owens. He basically shelved his change up (his best pitch) for half the season to work on the curve and slider. That's negatively impacted his numbers, all season long. He's still more of a 4 than a 2, but that was true last year, too.Plympton91 said:
As others have said, Kopech is exciting. Other than that Ty Buttrey has made himself relevant again.
The middle of the defense is covered for the next five years by home-grown, plus players, only one of whom has reached his 24th birthday; it's conceivable we'll have an extra catcher to use in a trade. But yeah, bad player development.Clears Cleaver said:
MuzzyField said:
By optioning him on the 12th, they can bring him back up on the 22nd. If they waited until Friday, it would be the 27th or whatever. Since they have, um, frequently been in the position of desperately needing a fresh arm, that flexibility probably outweighs the altruistic desire to let Barnes collect a few more big-league per diems.
Plympton91 said:
What is your obsession with Wright? He didn't stall. He has been as he always was a second rate knuckleballer. Useful enough to work as a long man or a spot starter.
I don't think this is an either or. Breslow can be replaced and they can address more pressing issues. But Breslow is useless and is somehow pitching (at least at times) i high leverage situations. of course minor league arms aren't automatically better than Breslow, but I don't see why they wouldn't give one a try (Dayan Diaz for instance) rather than keep running Breslow out there.P'tucket said:
Because it's not necessary to DFA Breslow to open up a roster spot when there are already guys with options who were even worse. There's one of them mentioned in the title of this very thread.
Alex Speier @alexspeier 24m24 minutes ago
Sonny Gray said he thought he'd get drafted by the Red Sox, right up until A's took him one pick before Boston's 1st selection in 2011.
Sonny Gray said he thought he'd get drafted by the Red Sox, right up until A's took him one pick before Boston's 1st selection in 2011.
E5 Yaz said:
More incompetence by the front office.
But man, we've had six picks from that draft play for the team this year, and I think we'll probably see Owens in September if not before. Can you even imagine how studly a draft it would have been if the As hadn't taken Gray?
Gray, Swihart, Betts.
RDLR has been less than a borderline 5th starter, and Webster is not even borderline atrocious. Meanwhile, Miley has had some decent stretches.Plympton91 said:
Wilson has done good as a setup man. Which means he will excel at that for 2 more seasons, at which point Boston will sign him to a big contract as a closer, where he will promptly implode.
The list you noted is not atypical; there's a reason the term "pitching prospect" has always been a bit of an oxymoron.
Barnes has been disappointing, no doubt, kind of like Paxton Crawford whom I believed was going to be the next Roger Clemens.
Belarisio is a desperation move, but maybe they get lucky. Like to see them grab Frasor who was just released by the Royals and see if they can fix his command issues
Hanley, Pedroia, Betts, Bogaerts, Holt, Buchholz, Koji, Erod and Tanaka have all met or exceeded Zips projections. Not many others. Significant underperformers Papi, Napoli, Pablo, Porcello, Kelly, Masterson, Castillo, Barnes, etc.
Belarisio is a desperation move, but maybe they get lucky. Like to see them grab Frasor who was just released by the Royals and see if they can fix his command issues
Clears Cleaver said:
Hanley, Pedroia, Betts, Bogaerts, Holt, Buchholz, Koji, Erod and Tanaka have all met or exceeded Zips projections. Not many others. Significant underperformers Papi, Napoli, Pablo, Porcello, Kelly, Masterson, Castillo, Barnes, etc.
Amazingly enough, it's hard to regret the pick of Barnes all that much, given who came after him. Pederson is about the only guy on that list who currently rates as a big miss for a lot of teams, with a number of other guys (including Barnes) still working it out. I guess I should like Kolten Wong more than I do.Rasputin said:
E5 Yaz said:
Oakland taking Sonny Gray before we had a chance is a bad move by the front office?Rasputin said:
Actually, he was serious...blaming ownership for not knee-capping the team in order to jump draft position with Oakland (you know, the Yankee strategy).
does Zips take fielding and base running into account?Sampo Gida said:
His .816 OPS has him tied for 44th in MLB
Weren't RA Dickey and Wakes second rate knuckleballers b4 they became first rate knuckleballers?TomRicardo said:
Dickey was a second rate pitcher before he became a knuckleballer. Wakefield was 3rd in rookie of the year voting.RoDaddy said:
So no.
Breslow's leverage index is 0.61; the only regular reliever on the team with a lower number is Ross. So I guess "at times" he pitches in high-leverage situations...but really not very often.Stan Papi Was Framed said:
I would never have re-signed him in the first place but it doesn't seem like he's going anywhere at this point until he really blows up. He's like Greg Campbell, but fortunately he doesn't get used as often or in as important of situations.
P'tucket said:
Slight quibble, but I would be hesitant to classify Pedroia as a plus player that far into the future. I'm on board with Betts, X, and Swihart/Vasquez, though.
While the Red Sox have some stud position prospects (Devers, Moncada, Benintendi, and Guerra), they do seem a little thin in pitching prospects. I really like Kopech and Espinoza, but they are a few years away. I don't think we can give up on Owens--he will likely spend another season in AAA next year and will hopefully begin dominating at that level. In addition, while we don't have what the Mets have, there are so many teams in baseball that would love to have a couple of young starters comparable to Rodriguez and Johnson. The Red Sox are probably out of it this year, they aren't as good as the Yankees, they have too many teams to climb over, and they don't have adequate pitching. In the long run, finishing with a top 5 pick might be the best thing for the organization, as it would allow the Red Sox to draft a top college arm.
Maybe the Red Sox are sending Barnes down to stretch him out? Hard to know. It is also possible that they have mismanaged Barnes by using him as a reliever. They don't seem to believe in Barnes very much. This is a team that assembled a middling starting staff (and that's being generous) and yet Barnes somehow wasn't good enough to remain a starter? Before moving him to the bullpen, I would like to see Barnes get a chance as a starter at the big league level, maybe he has middle-of-the-rotation potential. To be sure, the Red Sox have done themselves a disservice by wasting significant resources on a reject like Justin Masterson while Barnes was never given an opportunity to show what he can do as a major league starter.
Maybe the Red Sox are sending Barnes down to stretch him out? Hard to know. It is also possible that they have mismanaged Barnes by using him as a reliever. They don't seem to believe in Barnes very much. This is a team that assembled a middling starting staff (and that's being generous) and yet Barnes somehow wasn't good enough to remain a starter? Before moving him to the bullpen, I would like to see Barnes get a chance as a starter at the big league level, maybe he has middle-of-the-rotation potential. To be sure, the Red Sox have done themselves a disservice by wasting significant resources on a reject like Justin Masterson while Barnes was never given an opportunity to show what he can do as a major league starter.
FanSinceBoggs said:
Can you please share a list of successful major league starters who first came up as failed middle relievers?
We don't know if Barnes is a failed middle reliever (ultimately). He has been a failed middle reliever thus far, but he has the stuff to be a quality relief pitcher. It just hasn't happened yet.
FanSinceBoggs said:
Not perfect comparisons but 2 guys who were failed SP/RP types who went on to become very good starters:
Colby Lewis (he had to go to Japan for a couple years, first)
Jamie Moyer (he was a starter who relieved a little but what truly terrible).
Owens has actually been pitching really well of late. In his last 40 innings, he's given up 24 hits, 10bb and struck out 34 while allowing 13 runs. That's a 0.85 whip and 2.93 era.
Yeah, he took a pitch of the shelf. I think it's pretty likely that he'd be better than Breslow and I really wish they'd make that change. Of course, with Buchholz out, don't we need another another starter? Porcello, Rodriguez, Johnson, Miley...I really don't want to see Masterson start. If we call Kelly up can we send him down again or is he close to a service time limit?bosox79 said:
Why not Wright? He wasn't dazzling in his starts, but he was serviceable. I think Masterson had his shot at starting and now it's time to see what he can do from the pen.Rasputin said:
Rasputin said:
I'd been thinking they might as well try Owens in that spot, but his opponent would be either Houston or LA if they used him right out of the break, which seems less than ideal for a guy like him to debut against. I imagine we'll see Masterson at least once more.