Michael Sam could be the first openly gay NFL player
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Tony C said:
I don't think it really makes a huge difference--on the spectrum of "non-fiction television" there are many shades of grey between "reality show" and "documentary"; it's being called reality show by many as you note, though, because some think it moves a rhetorical needle in their favor for sure. Sounds "exploitative" and...
distracting.
Reality shows have been tastefully made and documentaries can be exploitative garbage too, though. We had the Lindsay Lohan/ OWN debacle on in the JtB household and it was a perfect example--it was directed by Amy Rice, who'd done an Obama doc on HBO and written for another HBO show, it was shot and edited and presented as a documentary... but it still exhibited many of the traits of the reality show as well, maybe largely due to the subject. OWN wanted to present a show that was "about someone getting control of their life," but it was about Lindsay Lohan acting like Lindsay Lohan.
Still, if Sam's show is anything similar to Lindsay's in form, it will be as bland, non-intrusive and nearly-football-free as it gets, I'd bet.
In an article yesterday, ESPN reported that the Rams have said the producers will be granted access no broader than the general media. Which means very little access during OTAs, mini-camps and so forth. When combined with what the producers have said, this means the documentary filming should be minimally intrusive.JohntheBaptist said:
Which should go a long way to dousing this -- at least until the first post arguing that the producers are insufficiently bold and the Rams insufficiently accommodating.
As for his not making the roster, not likely. For the variety of reasons, a high percentage of 7th round picks stick in the League as rookies. By contrast, I recall an NFLN report a couple of days ago that 13% of undrafted FAs make a team.
Generally, speaking, no:
Key word being much. But I do think there is a chance, just because of the additional access they have to Sam. Purely hypothetical, but if the Rams cut Sam, and Sam doesn't think he got a fair shot, or the producers of the documentary don't think he got a fair shot, the story could go in a different direction. Because of the access, that documentary could be a lot more powerful than anything else produced. Certainly more so than print media. But really, that only comes into play if things go south. If everything is good, and everyone is saying all the same happy things, there won't be as much drama to drive the story or set the documentary apart from other coverage.
I think it is extremely unlikely. Sam might be great on the field. If not, I expect that the Rams are going to be very careful and deliberate about how they manage roster cuts. The Rams know they signed up for additional scrutiny.
It doesn't matter though. The positives of a documentary far outweigh the slight change that something bad might happen. For Sam, the Rams, and society in general.
JayMags71 said:
That's a seriously fantastic piece and I kind of think you could Find-Replace "NFL" for "America" and not have to change another word.
Bill Barnwell has a good piece up on Sam, written just before the documentary news hit: http://grantland.com/features/nfl-draft-michael-sam-gay-trades/
Makes a number of thoughtful points, starting from a consideration of if the Rams were or were not a good landing spot for him. He argues that Sam would have been better off as an UDFA, which has been my thought as well until DCMissile posted that
Anyway, relevant to the focus of this discussion was this:
This makes a ton of sense to me. Frankly I'd think just that way if i were a GM -- if in the 7th round I had Sam and one other guy ranked evenly, I could easily see thinking, yeah, but I'll catch hell if I cut Sam, so let's go with the other guy.
That said, now that the Rams have drafted Sam, if the documentary has any impact at all -- and I strongly doubt it will -- it would be to reinforce the pressure on the Rams to think twice before cutting Sam. In other words, as to the question of whether or not the doc is in Sam's interest, I doubt it matters much one way or the other but if there is a marginal impact it might be one that favors Sam.
By the way, in terms of Sam's football skills, Barnwell links to a fairly in-depth scouting report that is quite positive on Sam and, agree or disagree, at least seems to make legit points that the combine numbers shouldn't worry Sam much except in regard to his strength, on which he'll have to work.
That's here: http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/18/5604464/2014-nfl-draft-michael-sam-pass-rusher-position-projections
Makes a number of thoughtful points, starting from a consideration of if the Rams were or were not a good landing spot for him. He argues that Sam would have been better off as an UDFA, which has been my thought as well until DCMissile posted that
Now the fact that a team has many more UDFAs than 7th rounders probably makes the odds more even in a case like Sam's, but I also take DCmissile's point.
Anyway, relevant to the focus of this discussion was this:
This makes a ton of sense to me. Frankly I'd think just that way if i were a GM -- if in the 7th round I had Sam and one other guy ranked evenly, I could easily see thinking, yeah, but I'll catch hell if I cut Sam, so let's go with the other guy.
That said, now that the Rams have drafted Sam, if the documentary has any impact at all -- and I strongly doubt it will -- it would be to reinforce the pressure on the Rams to think twice before cutting Sam. In other words, as to the question of whether or not the doc is in Sam's interest, I doubt it matters much one way or the other but if there is a marginal impact it might be one that favors Sam.
By the way, in terms of Sam's football skills, Barnwell links to a fairly in-depth scouting report that is quite positive on Sam and, agree or disagree, at least seems to make legit points that the combine numbers shouldn't worry Sam much except in regard to his strength, on which he'll have to work.
That's here: http://www.sbnation.com/2014/4/18/5604464/2014-nfl-draft-michael-sam-pass-rusher-position-projections
So Barnwell suddenly becomes legit analysis now? SoSH is awesome sometimes.Tony C said:
I hope Sam does well but I'm not holding my breath. Which is why I don't think it's a great idea for a late round pick to draw attention to himself.
Edit: Also, do people watch OWN? I legit have no idea and can't point to it on my cable package though this is certainly a solid movie by the network to become more relevant.
OWN is going for a "The Bachelorette" vibe to go with Bravo's, say, "Blind Date" vibe. In other words, they're basically the same thing, but OWN is cloaking it in this goofy patina of "sophistication." So it's a Lindsay Lohan reality show... shot by a real professional and framed and packaged as something a bit more "noble."
"Bravo" by-way-of-Oprah or something. Just like how Oprah's show was often salacious but presented "classy." But yeah, this is the show I think they want--they're not interested in the inside-football stories at all, I'd guess. They'll tell the story the non-football fan wants to see: what life's going to be like off the field day-to-day for the First Gay Football Player. People running into him on the street, talking to his mom about his progress at the kitchen sink, confrontations with the public when he's out with his boyfriend, looking at his life interacting with the sports media. That's my guess at least.
"Bravo" by-way-of-Oprah or something. Just like how Oprah's show was often salacious but presented "classy." But yeah, this is the show I think they want--they're not interested in the inside-football stories at all, I'd guess. They'll tell the story the non-football fan wants to see: what life's going to be like off the field day-to-day for the First Gay Football Player. People running into him on the street, talking to his mom about his progress at the kitchen sink, confrontations with the public when he's out with his boyfriend, looking at his life interacting with the sports media. That's my guess at least.
JohntheBaptist said:
Did you miss the post above you that said this has been postponed so Sam can concentrate on making the team and not being a distraction?
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10944070/michael-sam-documentary-oprah-winfrey-network-postponed
Because it compromises the respect you garner amongst teammates who perceive this as a quick cash grab?Devizier said:
Edit: This is all under the presumption he just wants to be known as an NFL player that is gay instead of that gay guy that played in the NFL.
That his feeling forced to cancel this comes in any way as common sense is fucked. "In search of ratings." What does that even mean? No shit is it in search of ratings, it'd be a TV show. The token cynicism is supposed to stick to him because everyone wants it to? Maybe he gets that it will mean something to people and likes the idea of documenting it. Maybe let him be an obnoxious asshole before declaring him one? That seems to work for everyone else in the NFL. Every description and quote I read said there'd be no line-crossing on NFL property. That wasn't the idea, etc.bankshot1 said:
This was a bunch of crotchety football writers concern trolling because they all basically think he should just shut the fuck up about it already, which is fine but none of anyone's business, and assuming that it is just rubs me the wrong way. If HBO wanted to follow some young, late round guy as he adapted to NFL life because who knows--he's from New Zealand or something similarly human interest--that'd be a distraction for everyone? Of course not. But him being gay is distracting?
"Common sense" here, to me, states that of course this show should have distracted no fair-minded human being from playing football and that all the commentary was a surreptitious self-creation of the "distraction" anyway. Buried in double standard. It looks like we all want to be cynical, but the guys actually doing the distracting as they blithely wonder if it will distract anyone is where I'd start. YMMV.
edit--tl;dr, I get we're in the agree to disagree stage here, just doesn't strike me as fair to him that that gets to count as common sense.
kenneycb said:
The bolded is so unbelievably full of shit I don't know where to start.
- There are scores of players who hold out and/or renegotiate their contracts on an annual basis. Do they lose their teammates respect because of their quick cash grab?
- There are numerous players who have been all about promoting their personal brands above all and they don't seem to have lost the respect of their teammates. I mean, the list goes way back to Bob Waterfield of the old LA Rams and includes names like Paul "The Golden Boy" Hornung, Jerry Kramer, Deion Sanders, TO and many, many more. Any teammates have trouble with these guys because of it?
- Johnny Manziel is (and has always been) all about the quick cash grab. Think any of his teammates cares?
There are reasons not to make this documentary if you are Michael Sam and you are correct to claim that those reasons are related to the opinions of his teammates and the Rams FO/coaching staff. But let's not couch this in neutral language. The reason he's not doing the documentary is that he realizes that it might provide a socially acceptable outlet for bigots to express their disapproval and that is not in his best interests until he makes the team.
Average Reds said:
Nail, meet head. This whole idea that he isn't garnering respect by doing a documentary(I know it's been pushed back) is asinine. This is professional sports, and the way you garner respect is on the field and in the film room. Right now, he's a seventh round pick who has to prove himself in those environments. If he sucks, and doesn't work his tail off, then he will get no respect. If he busts his ass, then he will get the respect of his peers. It's that simple. Sure there will be bigots who will always be questioning him, but by and large he will have the respect of that locker room if he proves that he belongs there.
I disagree.
Take MLB for instance, whenever a rookie comes into the clubhouse bringing with him anything other than a head-down all-out win attitude they're given immense loads of shit.
Sam was drafted at the back of the draft and if he or anyone else were coming in and giving me the impression that they were doing anything other than max effort to help my team win then I'd hope that more than me gave him a ton of shit for it.
Take Tebow - for all the circus he created nobody ever said that he was anything other than the hardest worker on the practice field. If Sam does self-generate hoopla then he had better be prepared to live up to those lofty expectations. Not saying he can't or won't of course.
Take MLB for instance, whenever a rookie comes into the clubhouse bringing with him anything other than a head-down all-out win attitude they're given immense loads of shit.
Sam was drafted at the back of the draft and if he or anyone else were coming in and giving me the impression that they were doing anything other than max effort to help my team win then I'd hope that more than me gave him a ton of shit for it.
Take Tebow - for all the circus he created nobody ever said that he was anything other than the hardest worker on the practice field. If Sam does self-generate hoopla then he had better be prepared to live up to those lofty expectations. Not saying he can't or won't of course.
I don't think anyone begrudges him the cash grab, least of all the players. They know how much 7th rounders get paid; I don't imagine he comes from anything resembling Manziel money
Still, this is a good decision. There is a high probability of his making the Rams -- and if not that team, some other NFL roster. The documentary and pay day can follow.
Fairly or not, a perception was growing that Sam was developing a forked tongue. One of his first statements was that it would be great to be treated just as a football player, not a gay football player, yet we saw how draft day played out. Then he said he was 100% in on football, but this project undoubtedly would have placed certain demands on him, now and during the next few months. That would have been a distraction to some degree for him.
People who doubt this should check out a couple of posts in the JG thread about the demands imposed on all of these guys, learning the play book and so forth. I get the sense it resembles military basic training. You have your job, you sleep and you eat, and other than an occasional day or night off, that's it. We're a couple of generations removed from guys having off season jobs in other fields -- then showing up for training camp 20 pounds overweight.
Still, this is a good decision. There is a high probability of his making the Rams -- and if not that team, some other NFL roster. The documentary and pay day can follow.
Fairly or not, a perception was growing that Sam was developing a forked tongue. One of his first statements was that it would be great to be treated just as a football player, not a gay football player, yet we saw how draft day played out. Then he said he was 100% in on football, but this project undoubtedly would have placed certain demands on him, now and during the next few months. That would have been a distraction to some degree for him.
People who doubt this should check out a couple of posts in the JG thread about the demands imposed on all of these guys, learning the play book and so forth. I get the sense it resembles military basic training. You have your job, you sleep and you eat, and other than an occasional day or night off, that's it. We're a couple of generations removed from guys having off season jobs in other fields -- then showing up for training camp 20 pounds overweight.
kenneycb said:
1.) Did Tony C ever say Barnwell isn't legit? Sure some people have but is that Tony C's opinion? It's annoying as hell when people attribute some perceived board consensus to one guy.
2.) The fact that Barnwell writes a lot of articles that--in my opinion--suck doesn't mean that every single thing he writes is stupid. This article stands on its own merits. I think it's fairly decent and a lot better than what he normally does.
This couldn't be any more inaccurate. John Clayton confirmed what myself and some others have been saying. The Rams drafted Sam to play football and accepted the media coverage that he would bring. The Rams did NOT know about the Oprah documentary prior to drafting Sam and weren't going to allow the circus that the Oprah cameras in camp would bring. They had the cameras off in the distance on Day One, the Oprah people wanted full access and the Rams said absolutely not......this mini-camp and our training camp is to prepare the football team for the NFL season without the distractions a film crew at camp would cause. Clayton confirmed they didn't care to provide additional staffing for security, signing of waivers, etc. This wasn't Sam's choice by any means it was the Rams pulling the plug.Average Reds said:
Edit: distraction
kenneycb said:
Way more people watch Tyler Perry's The Haves and Have Nots on OWN than watch Mad Men on AMC.
So I guess the documentary is back on once/if he makes the team/a team? Or it turns into a different kind of documentary if he doesn't make an NFL team?
Documentary #1 being his integration and life in the NFL.
Documentary #2 covering his journey through college football and culminating with the NFL Draft and the kiss?
Documentary #1 being his integration and life in the NFL.
Documentary #2 covering his journey through college football and culminating with the NFL Draft and the kiss?
Well, Sam said in an interview (I think at the combine) that he looked forward to being Michael Sam, football player not always Michael Sam, the gay football player. And doing the documentary highlights the latter.
I wish him the best and I realize that he might have only a limited window to make certain amounts of money. But he can either go with the words that he said or do the documentary but not both, not in the short or medium term.
I wish him the best and I realize that he might have only a limited window to make certain amounts of money. But he can either go with the words that he said or do the documentary but not both, not in the short or medium term.
JohntheBaptist said:
Yes, it is.
People have their narrative and they will push it. Facts be dammed.
Yep.
It's amazing to me the mountain that has been made out of a molehill in this regard, but at least it gives a good indication of where we are...progressing, but still filled with double standards that can be justified using different narratives, to use your term.
It's amazing to me the mountain that has been made out of a molehill in this regard, but at least it gives a good indication of where we are...progressing, but still filled with double standards that can be justified using different narratives, to use your term.
The facts that Clayton and ESPN reported were that Fisher said no Oprah sideshow, the Rams met with Oprah and told them no access to the practices. Are you aware of another report?Average Reds said:
Admit he handled it poorly and the Rams put an end to it. You don't say it's 100% football then the next day sign with Oprah to film your practices without even having the respect to clear it with the organization. I'm aware the latter wasn't Sam but his representatives either way it was a terrible decision when you're trying to win a spot on a football team.
Oh come on that's semantics. First off, this part isn't Sam it's his representatives who shady/wisely kept this quiet. After he was drafted they -announced- it without first clearing it with the team.Reverend said:
I am not anti-Sam, but to be fair one e-mail to 32 teams that says something like this.Reverend said:
"In the event that you are inclined to draft Mr. Sam, please note that Michael has concluded an agreement with Oprah Winfrey's network to produce a documentary chronicling his NFL experience. The pertinent details of that agreement are attached.
Sincerely,
Mr. X,
Representative of Michael Sam"
I'd be surprised if any team would draft a player, knowing that he came with a reality show of any kind.
I'm fairly liberal when it comes to social issues, and I don't give a damn about kisses or the politics of the selection. Good for him, I hope he makes it.
But when I heard the story that he comes with an OWN reality series... now he's on the list of assholes I don't want to see in the NFL.
Tony C said:
I'd be surprised if any team would draft a player, knowing that he came with a reality show of any kind.
I'm fairly liberal when it comes to social issues, and I don't give a damn about kisses or the politics of the selection. Good for him, I hope he makes it.
But when I heard the story that he comes with an OWN reality series... now he's on the list of assholes I don't want to see in the NFL.
You realize he got this documentary type of show given how monumental the moment is, right? If that makes him an as shoe does it make me an as shoe for actually being interested in the show? Too bad it is postponed...
This is mostly where I am. I hope he makes the Rams I chalk up the tv show idiocy to over-zealous reps pimping the kid.Chemistry Schmemistry said:
And if I were a FO type and received an e-mail from a "controversial" player that he was a package deal with Oprah, I'd return his e-mail with a "best of luck with your career with one of the 31 other NFL teams". I think this matter was handled as ineptly as is possible.
You old ass over starched dudes need to stop having an opinion about every goddamn thing.
"I would do this...I would do that"
Bitch, you can barely afford to get into an NFL stadium, ain't nobody giving you one fucking thought. Settle, simmer and find a hobby other than judging.
"I would do this...I would do that"
Bitch, you can barely afford to get into an NFL stadium, ain't nobody giving you one fucking thought. Settle, simmer and find a hobby other than judging.
You're trying too hard to be hip, dude. But it seems like, these days, the most judgmental people are those who judge everything they disagree with as coming from someone who is old-ass, mired in poverty and over-starched. Wouldn't it be easier to talk about the issue instead of electing yourself chief justice of the soshcourt?
Drocca said:
You're trying too hard to be hip, dude. But it seems like, these days, the most judgmental people are those who judge everything they disagree with as coming from someone who is old-ass, mired in poverty and over-starched. Wouldn't it be easier to talk about the issue instead of electing yourself chief justice of the soshcourt?
Jackie Robinson was monumental. And he didn't come with an entourage or the understanding that most of us are on his side. This is just silly and self-serving.
I'd be interested in a documentary about a low-round draft choice fighting for a roster spot. Kind of like Hard Knocks without the desperate need to inject an artificial story line.
The problem is, having a film crew follow you around an NFL training camp is too much of a distraction. First, for the player. And then for all the players and coaches who have to deal with the associated bullshit. There's just too much to do in too little time. You have to be a giant ego-driven shit like Rex Ryan to welcome something like that.
SMU_Sox said:
Jackie Robinson was monumental. And he didn't come with an entourage or the understanding that most of us are on his side. This is just silly and self-serving.
I'd be interested in a documentary about a low-round draft choice fighting for a roster spot. Kind of like Hard Knocks without the desperate need to inject an artificial story line.
The problem is, having a film crew follow you around an NFL training camp is too much of a distraction. First, for the player. And then for all the players and coaches who have to deal with the associated bullshit. There's just too much to do in too little time. You have to be a giant ego-driven shit like Rex Ryan to welcome something like that.
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