Michael Sam could be the first openly gay NFL player

[HurstSoGood]

Paul Gutierrez

#OAKpick Shelby Harris did not play football last season after being dismnissed from Illinois State for conduct detrimental to team

 
Harris was listed as a DE.
 
 
San Fran needs to draft Sam with #30. It makes way too much sense, even if the kid ultimately fails to make the team. Right place, right time. Good for the community. The 49ers are already a really good team. All upside for their organization….

 

[Stitch01]

I'm resigning myself to the fact he isn't going to get taken.  Watching teams take place kickers over the SEC Defensive player of the year is not helping my anger though.

I'll get upset if/when he isn't signed anywhere

 

[Cellar-Door]

Paul Gutierrez

#OAKpick Shelby Harris did not play football last season after being dismnissed from Illinois State for conduct detrimental to team

 
Harris was listed as a DE.
 
 
San Fran needs to draft Sam with #30. It makes way too much sense, even if the kid ultimately fails to make the team. Right place, right time. Good for the community. The 49ers are already a really good team. All upside for their organization….

It would be terrible for Sam though, waste of training camp basically guarantees he doesn't make the NFL.
At this point he should probably be hoping to go undrafted and sign with a team where he has a shot of making the roster.
 
Edit- and they went FB.

 

[86spike]

It would be terrible for Sam though, waste of training camp basically guarantees he doesn't make the NFL.
At this point he should probably be hoping to go undrafted and sign with a team where he has a shot of making the roster.

His best shot at a roster is almost assuredly as a special teamer, really.

Hopefully someone will sign him tonight and give him a shot.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think the Colts might be a decent fit. They could use a Special teams/depth DE/OLB.

 

[mauf]

The NFL is better off if Michael Sam is drafted.

At this point, Michael Samis probably better off not getting drafted, so he can pick a landing spot based on where he has the best chance of making the roster instead of being sent to a team that wanted good PR.

 

[soxfan121]

I'm getting angrier by the minute that he hasn't gone yet.  Folks should be rightly pissed if goes undrafted today. 

 
Yep. This is not the finest moment for the NFL or the teams that comprise it. I really do not find it at all credible that the SEC Defensive Player of the Year is not a draftable prospect. The history and success of the previous winners on that list paint a pretty clear picture of what's going on and it ain't good. 

 

[SMU_Sox]

Dallas would be a good fit too from a roster perspective. Plus JJ needs some good media attention.

 

[soxhop411]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[E5 Yaz]

Of coure, the Missouri team would take him

 

[Mystic Merlin]

 
Yep. This is not the finest moment for the NFL or the teams that comprise it. I really do not find it at all credible that the SEC Defensive Player of the Year is not a draftable prospect. The history and success of the previous winners on that list paint a pretty clear picture of what's going on and it ain't good. 

 
Woops.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Good to see.

 

[JJ17]

To rams. Nice to see them announce it and the cheers in radio city.

 

[Eck'sSneakyCheese]

Good for him. Gets to stay home.

 

[SMU_Sox]

Well, he certainly will be able to learn from good defensive coaches there. And he won't need to play anytime soon so he can have more time to adjust. I'm not a Sam guy but in the 7th round that's as good of a pick as any.

 

[soxfan121]

 
Woops.

 
Glad to be wrong. Good for St. Louis and the NFL. As mauf pointed out, probably bad for Sam. But he needed to be drafted - entirely wrong message if he had not been.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Any reaction in the hall when it was announced?

 

[soxhop411]

Any reaction in the hall when it was announced?

yes, Lots of cheers

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Awesome.  Awesome. Awesome.  Whether or not he ever plays a down for St. Louis or in the NFL, this is a good day for the NFL, the LGBT community and sports in general.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Nice to see him get drafted.
 
Where the hell he fits on STL is a mystery. They play 4-3 and have the best D-Line in the league,

 

[Tony C]

 
Yep. This is not the finest moment for the NFL or the teams that comprise it. I really do not find it at all credible that the SEC Defensive Player of the Year is not a draftable prospect. The history and success of the previous winners on that list paint a pretty clear picture of what's going on and it ain't good. 

 
 

 
Woops.

 
I don't think SF121's point is entirely moot, though. Among the many variables in his fall, I have to think it's not unfair to speculate that his fall wasn't just about bad combine numbers, being a tweener, or that SEC D player of the year isn't the end all be all. In the bottom of the draft there are plenty of guys picked with poor numbers (hell, the Pats drafted two OL guys with bottom of the barrel measureables, if I read correctly). And, given the studly history of SEC D player of the year guys, even if that can be taken with 2 grains of salt, too, I have to think it's still odd that someone wasn't intrigued enough to get him picked higher.
 
And bad luck for him that he didn't drop a bit more, actually -- not sure it isn't better to be able to pick your own situation by that point.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Nice to see him get drafted.
 
Where the hell he fits on STL is a mystery. They play 4-3 and have the best D-Line in the league,

 
Today isn't about that, though

 

[E5 Yaz]

 
And bad luck for him that he didn't drop a bit more, actually -- not sure it isn't better to be able to pick your own situation by that point.

 
Well, if he were to get cut in camp, he might have shown enough to have takers

 

[Tony C]

or, if Mayock is to be believed, maybe St. Louis is a good spot for him
 

"His best thing is his first step. He doesn't have length, so he wins with quickness. He's not going to be a player in space. He'll play with his hand in the dirt. I applaud St. Louis. He'll join one of most ferocious fronts in football. Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams is very good at identifying what you do well; in sub packages, he can be creative." -- Mike Mayock
 

 
in any case, definitely good he was picked. Hope he fucking kicks ass and embarrasses everyone who passed on him.

 

[soxhop411]

ESPN is showing video of the moment he gets the phone call…. Amazing stuff…. 

 

[Cellar-Door]

or, if Mayock is to be believed, maybe St. Louis is a good spot for him
 
 
in any case, definitely good he was picked. Hope he fucking kicks ass and embarrasses everyone who passed on him.

So he'll play DE. If they like him being behind two really good ends gets him some time to develop which is nice.
Hope he makes the team.

 

[dbn]

Bad for him - as opposed to being a FA - but good for the NFL, the Rams, and our culture in general.

 

[Phragle]

^ Why is it bad for him?

Yep. This is not the finest moment for the NFL or the teams that comprise it. I really do not find it at all credible that the SEC Defensive Player of the Year is not a draftable prospect. The history and success of the previous winners on that list paint a pretty clear picture of what's going on and it ain't good.

 
He's old, small, unathletic, and had bad tape. Why would anyone draft that?

 

[SMU_Sox]

He's an edge rusher. STL has Long and Quinn. Where does he fit in? Maybe on 3rd downs but even then you run into the same issues.

 

[soxhop411]

I have to give kudos for ESPN showing that video of Sam and his raw emotion… Though it would not shock me if they got complaints from "people" if a twitter search of his name is any indcation 

 

[Luis Taint]

Michael Sam and Kenny Britt, reality show please

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

And yet he succeeded in the best league in the world that's not the NFL. Given how few 6th and 7th rounders even last a couple of years in the league, why not take a look at an occasional player who doesn't have the measurables, but found a way to compete? Yeah, I'd be mad if my team took him in the first three rounds, but there's plenty of room for this type of prospect.

 

[Cellar-Door]

He's an edge rusher. STL has Long and Quinn. Where does he fit in? Maybe on 3rd downs but even then you run into the same issues.

HE's a 7th rounder. So my guess would be where all 7th rounders who make the team fit. Special Teams and depth.

 

[SMU_Sox]

HE's a 7th rounder. So my guess would be where all 7th rounders who make the team fit. Special Teams and depth.

Right but someone asked why he was a bad fit. I'm saying that's why he is a bad fit. Not that he won't be special teams and depth there - that goes without saying. It's more of why he hasn't limited upside for STL and what makes it a poorer fit for Sam than a team where he could at least get rotations as a pass rusher.

 

[Tony C]

^ Why is it bad for him?

 
He's old, small, unathletic, and had bad tape. Why would anyone draft that?

 
 

And yet he succeeded in the best league in the world that's not the NFL. Given how few 6th and 7th rounders even last a couple of years in the league, why not take a look at an occasional player who doesn't have the measurables, but found a way to compete? Yeah, I'd be mad if my team took him in the first three rounds, but there's plenty of room for this type of prospect.

 
Would draft him for the reasons CS says, and also because I don't actually believe a guy who won SEC player of the year award has "bad tape" nor that he is unathletic. In re the former, he produced. In re the latter, in some ways sure, but he is also quick as hell and strong as a house and seems to burn to play. There are plenty of guys with poor measurables who have succeeded in this league, and usually it's because they have some other attributes.
 
I'm not saying, again like CS, that I think he should have been a top pick. But among the fliers of the final rounds a small percentage of whom will even make rosters and even smaller with impact, you're damn sure I'd give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who produced like Sam did.

 

[Phragle]

Do you think the Gold Glove means good defense?
 
Yes he is unathletic. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=96267&draftyear=2014&genpos=DE Those are appalling numbers. I couldn't spin them into a positive if you paid me to.

 

[Papo The Snow Tiger]

Drafted by the St. Louis Rams


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000349371/article/michael-sam-drafted-by-st-louis-rams-at-no-249

 

[Tony C]

Well, it basically becomes a semantic exercise -- no one seems to have a problem with the Pats drafting to OL guys who apparently can't jump high enough to scale a speed bump. No one has argued Sam had a good combine. But athleticism has different elements. Hopefully our guys have other athletic qualities that will help them succeed and perhaps Sam does, too -- the combine isn't the be all end all of measuring the abilities that make for a good football player.

 

[SMU_Sox]

The 3-cone is actually a somewhat statistically relevant stat here and his was a 7.8...

 

[Reverend]

The pick that launched a thousand bar fights.

Most excellent.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

Do you think the Gold Glove means good defense?
 
Yes he is unathletic. http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=96267&draftyear=2014&genpos=DE Those are appalling numbers. I couldn't spin them into a positive if you paid me to.

So, I ask this question quite seriously, not as a rhetorical question/accusation, do you think he was given an award he didn't deserve? 
I don't follow college football much at all, so I have no idea.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Well, it basically becomes a semantic exercise -- no one seems to have a problem with the Pats drafting to OL guys who apparently can't jump high enough to scale a speed bump. No one has argued Sam had a good combine. But athleticism has different elements. Hopefully our guys have other athletic qualities that will help them succeed and perhaps Sam does, too -- the combine isn't the be all end all of measuring the abilities that make for a good football player.

They had other measurables that were good though, like size and strength.
Sam's problem was that he was both small for his position and slow, and weak, basically no measurable had him anywhere but well below average and most had him near the worst.
A good comparison would be college basketball, there are lots of guys who have great success in college basketball but no fit in the pros because they lack size or quickness, etc.
Look at Jacob Pullen, he was a top player at KSU, one of only 6 ever 2 time Big 12 all defense selections. Carried his team to the elite 8 his senior year. Didn't even get a summer league invite.

 

[Tony C]

Oh, sure...am arguing only that he deserved to be drafted and above some of the other late round fliers based on his record of production and some specific skills. I get that he's a tweener, not a great athlete, and overall unlikely to make it. My only disagreement with what you write is that a better point of comparison than college b-ball players is previous SEC D player of the year awardees -- those guys have been pretty awesome. Given that he's in that company...I think Sam is worth a flier.

 

[Phragle]

Well, it basically becomes a semantic exercise -- no one seems to have a problem with the Pats drafting to OL guys who apparently can't jump high enough to scale a speed bump.

 
I was. All day.
 

No one has argued Sam had a good combine. But athleticism has different elements. Hopefully our guys have other athletic qualities that will help them succeed and perhaps Sam does, too -- the combine isn't the be all end all of measuring the abilities that make for a good football player.

 
The combine is there to measure athleticism. I didn't say anything like "he will be a bad player", just that he's a bad bet and then listed the reasons.
 

The 3-cone is actually a somewhat statistically relevant stat here and his was a 7.8...

 
Significantly slower than both Wilfork and Brady.
 

So, I ask this question quite seriously, not as a rhetorical question/accusation, do you think he was given an award he didn't deserve? 
I don't follow college football much at all, so I have no idea.

 
I don't know either, I just don't care about awards. 

 

[dbn]

The problem is that - as far as I know - we haven't heard what pro scouts thought of him before the pro scouts knew he was gay. I can totally believe that they never thought he projected well to the NFL, and the combine results confirmed their opinion. I can also totally believe that they had some doubts but would have pegged him as a mid-round pick, but, perhaps even subconsciously, gave much more weight to their doubts after they discovered he was gay.
 
edit: also, GOAL!

 

[Phragle]

Oh, sure...am arguing only that he deserved to be drafted and above some of the other late round fliers based on his record of production and some specific skills. I get that he's a tweener, not a great athlete, and overall unlikely to make it. My only disagreement with what you write is that a better point of comparison than college b-ball players is previous SEC D player of the year awardees -- those guys have been pretty awesome. Given that he's in that company...I think Sam is worth a flier.

 
I think he probably deserved to be drafted too. I disagree with 121 on the reasons he fell so far. I think he's a long shot, but so are the players drafted around him.

 

[Chemistry Schmemistry]

I've talked to basketball experts who say scheme means nothing in the NBA. Players generally produce consistently per touch as if they live on five individual islands. There's amazingly little interaction. If Sam were a college basketball star, I could see the combine results meaning he doesn't even get a camp invite. Football is different. Plenty of guys who don't have the athleticism have an impact in the right scheme, or if they work hard enough. And special teams is basically a world where you accept that you're going to get the shit kicked out of you ten times a game. So follow your assignment to the letter, work hard, and you'll have a place.

 

[mascho]

Sam benefited from having Ealy on the other side of Mizzou's defensive line. Ealy saw the bulk of protections shifted to him giving Sam more one on one opportunities. That allowed him to put up some great numbers, leading to the co-DPOY.

 

[Tony C]

 
I was. All day.
 
 

 
heh - fair enough...
 
 

The problem is that - as far as I know - we haven't heard what pro scouts thought of him before the pro scouts knew he was gay. I can totally believe that they never thought he projected well to the NFL, and the combine results confirmed their opinion. I can also totally believe that they had some doubts but would have pegged him as a mid-round pick, but, perhaps even subconsciously, gave much more weight to their doubts after they discovered he was gay.
 
edit: also, GOAL!

 
Well, he was pegged as a 3rd rounder in some listing or another at the time of the announcement. But it's certainly fair to say that this was before there was a real focus and before the combine, et al. I also think it's fair to think that it's possible that some subtle biases may be in play for some evaluators to some degree (this is, after all, a league that until relatively recently didn't think black QBs could make it).
 
And, just to be clear, when I make a very caveated statement ("possible" "for some" etc), I'm not trying to say that someone like Phragle who is a skeptic is one of those people. Totally legit to be a skeptic.

 

[DukeSox]

Big 12 DPOY (on Texas even) didn't get drafted.

Heck, Heisman QBs regularly fall to later rounds.

College awards are not necessarily meaningful.