Wow. That's a pretty damaging fuck up by someone in the organization. It'd be interesting to know the expected future WAR that they're forfeiting with that punishment.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/source-red-sox-banned-from-signing-international-players-for-a-year-153432545.htmlBoston was limited last year to spending a maximum of $300,000 on international prospects after exceeding its spending limit the year before by spending $62 million on Cuban prospect Yoan Moncada. The Red Sox skirted the $300,000 threshold by packaging highly regarded prospects with lesser ones, paying both similarly and allowing the players’ agent to give the lion’s share of the money to the better prospect, according to the source.
The five players declared free agents are outfielders Albert Guaimaro and Simon Muzziotti, infielders Antonio Pinero and Eduardo Torrealba, and right-handed pitcher Cesar Gonzalez, according to the source. They are free to sign with any team starting Saturday
Ha, any claims that MLB investigators would follow the letter of the law in their investigating would be suspect.Therefore, any claims that players were threatened with discipline, including suspensions, would be suspect.
The MLB loves the Cardinals. Smaller market team that wins championships. In the eyes of the league they are not as bad as the Big Bad Boston Red Sox using their never ending capital to finish in last place every other year.This is one thing I still just cannot fathom. The Cardinals committed a federal crime, and not just a non-baseball related federal crime. Things that directly impacted the competition among teams in MLB.
And.....nothing. Nothing at all. The guy involved pled guilty back in January. No word from MLB.
Well doneHaven't the Red Sox been punished enough for their international signings?
I'd be willing to bet the projected future WAR both of these kids and of the future potential signees combined is still less than that of Yoan Moncada. But honestly, signing that many "package deals" to get premium talent after shelling out so many millions past the cap for Moncada was clearly painting a big bullseye on the organization's back. MLB found the fire underneath the smokescreen.Wow. That's a pretty damaging fuck up by someone in the organization. It'd be interesting to know the expected future WAR that they're forfeiting with that punishment.
They weren't out on international signings all together, just limited in how much they could spend because they exceeded the cap when they signed Moncada (among others). The punishment being meted out is for attempting to circumvent those limitations, so now they are out on international signings no matter how much they want to spend.Further proof that all Boston sports teams have no regard for the decency of the game.
Sox Prospects has Albert Guaimaro at #56 and Simon Muzziotti at #60, so it isn't a huge blow to the system. Weren't we basically out on international signings this year any how because of how much we spend previously, or am I thinking of the year before last?
I would imagine it would depend on how they're classifying these players. Are they again international free agents or just "regular" free agents? In one case, the Sox are barred from signing them at all. In the other, it would probably be frowned upon but not against any rules...if they really wanted the players back in that case, they'd probably have to pay more than the original deal to do it, which is arguably further punishment.Does the MLB ruling specifically state that Boston can't just resign the prospects whose contracts have been voided, now that they are FA? Then again, thats the sort of move that I imagine would be frowned upon...
I'm not 100% sure, but I think they would be considered international amateurs, and the Red Sox are barred from signing any international amateurs this year.Does the MLB ruling specifically state that Boston can't just resign the prospects whose contracts have been voided, now that they are FA? Then again, thats the sort of move that I imagine would be frowned upon...
Most other teams were not subject to the $300k limitation. The Red Sox were very blatent about how they did this and got caught. Perhaps other teams subject to the limitation are doing it, but they weren't as blatent about it.So let me get this straight - they were limited to $300K per player, and were buying a 'package' of say 2 players for $600K and the agent was giving one kid $500K and the other $100K? That's pretty shady. Not surprising honestly, but shady (and I'm sure other teams are doing it)
Package deals are not uncommon among Latin American signings. The immediate concern among officials from other clubs are the unintended consequences that MLB’s decision could have on other players, ranging from 2015 signings to more established players who could come forward for a chance at a second payday, perhaps even at the advice of a former trainer in exchange for a commission.
God, that would all kinds of awesome. I hope every single player signed via a package deal comes forward now and demands free agency.Ben Badler is I think a good source on the international prospect scene. His coverage of the penalties includes this tidbit:
I suspect that there are agents and lawyers combing through the draftees to unearth new clients.God, that would all kinds of awesome. I hope every single player signed via a package deal comes forward now and demands free agency.
SoSH Legal brigade? I think we've found a real growth opportunity for you!I suspect that there are agents and lawyers combing through the draftees to unearth new clients.
Hmm. Team signed Xander for $410,000 and his brother Jair for $180,000 at the same time (before sending him to Theo for his release)...Brings up and interesting way of getting a tough sign in the amateur draft. Suppose Groom had 2 older brothers, and the Red Sox drafted them in the 49th and 50th rounds and gave them each the $100k maximum that doesn't hit the spending cap. Would they get dinged for packaging?
I guess "package deal" is not illegal...only using it to circumvent caps is?Package deals are not explicitly against MLB rules, and many teams sign multiple players from the same trainer, either at the same time or over a multi-year period. These deals took place before the bonus pools ever existed and have continued since the bonus pool era began in 2012. No team has ever been penalized for doing any type of package deal, according to the commissioner’s office.
Furthermore, MLB officials knew last year that the Red Sox were signing several players from the same trainers, and the commissioner’s office approved those contracts. According to one source, the Red Sox are the only team under investigation for doing package deals.
Some believe MLB might be acting in response to an April 25 story from Baseball America about how teams get around international bonus pools that described how organizations can use package deals to sign Cuban players by overpaying a Cuban player who is exempt from the bonus pools in order to get a lower price on a player who is subject to the pools. The story did not mention any Red Sox package deals, though it did detail the mechanics and commonplace nature of such arrangements. The story also revisited a Baseball America article from 2012 in which the commissioner’s office said it would step in with penalties for any deals it viewed as an attempt to circumvent the bonus pools, though since then the commissioner’s office has approved many package deals, including other teams that did them in 2015.
Or perhaps MLB management is waiting for a truly independent investigation to finish before making their own decision.The MLB loves the Cardinals. Smaller market team that wins championships. In the eyes of the league they are not as bad as the Big Bad Boston Red Sox using their never ending capital to finish in last place every other year.
The leagues are and have always been hypocritical. I don't even want to bring up what the NFL has done to the Pats.
Major League Baseball is awaiting a resolution before acting. The Cardinals have basically been mum since chairman Bill DeWitt addressed the case at the annual Winter Warmup in January, saying it was far too early to gauge potential punishment that could be levied.
Thank you for linking that article.
Well NY didn't sign a top 30 prospect last year under the ban. The Red Sox signed the #15 and #24 prospects in the class.So regarding the Yankees - are they staying above the fray here? Was it a year or two ago where they signed like 20 of the top 30 IFA? I assume they are under the same 300K penalty the Sox are? And they are behaving?
Although maybe they don't feel the pressure to package since they plopped 20 top IFA in their system all at once....I'd like a Sox fan who has a lot of spare time to do due diligence on NY's IFA last year.
Are any of the players on that list the $50K valuation guys that the Sox gave $300K to?Guaimaro looked like a real prospect. Not sure about the others. How was it determined which ones were declared free agents?
Eduardo Rodriguez and Christian Vazquez both signed for less than 300k.I think this penalty seems harsher than it is. It's pretty rare for one of these kids to turn into impact players, and those that do rarely sign for 300K or less. The Red Sox weren't likely to end up with anything that's going to have a material impact on the farm system by being lost from last year's group, and they weren't likely to sign one this year either. If the commissioner's office was looking to make a statement about this practice, this seems like a pretty good way to do it without actually doing any significant damage to the team they are using to send that message.
Who do the Sox currently have in the system that is worth getting excited about that was signed as an IFA for 300k or less? I can't think of anyone...
Vazquez was drafted in 2008 in the 9th round, not an IFA. Edro was an IFA six years ago, and would almost certainly go for over 300k on today's market.Eduardo Rodriguez and Christian Vazquez both signed for less than 300k.
Are you talking about Christain Vasquez, because he was drafted, he is not an international signee?Eduardo Rodriguez and Christian Vazquez both signed for less than 300k.
Nice job with the research. I'll shut up re: the Yanks.Well NY didn't sign a top 30 prospect last year under the ban. The Red Sox signed the #15 and #24 prospects in the class.
NY has not signed a top 50 players so far today (and 45 of the top 50 have signed), although they were rumored to be the favorite to sign the #25 player in the class who is unsigned still
The issue isn't so much who the Yankees sign THIS signing period (because the warning has been sounded), it is the previous IFA signing period when the Yankees went on a spree. It would be interesting to know how much bundling of highly rated prospects and non-prospects were signed by the Yankees who had the same agent.
This is where I am at. Furthermore, the manner in which the MLB has handled these judgements has been even-handed. Especially when compared to the NFL.I think this penalty seems harsher than it is. It's pretty rare for one of these kids to turn into impact players, and those that do rarely sign for 300K or less. The Red Sox weren't likely to end up with anything that's going to have a material impact on the farm system by being lost from last year's group, and they weren't likely to sign one this year either. If the commissioner's office was looking to make a statement about this practice, this seems like a pretty good way to do it without actually doing any significant damage to the team they are using to send that message.
Who do the Sox currently have in the system that is worth getting excited about that was signed as an IFA for 300k or less? I can't think of anyone...