MLBPA Angry At Cubs Over Bryant Situation

[trekfan55]

This takes me back to Finley's idea to make all players free agents every year.  The MLBPA (MArvin Miller) certainly did not want this, by having a restricted market prices would be up.  What would have happened if the owners had accepted and proposed this?  How would pr could the Union have refused it?
 
At the end of the day, it serves both the Union and the owners' interest to have a period of club control.  Those terms of club control were negotiated and agreed upon.
 
Finally, as good as Bryant seems to be, do we need to show the MLBPA some of the ST stats?  How about JBJ or Pedro Ciriaco?  (and that's just the first two names I can remember from the Sox). 

 

[Spacemans Bong]

 
To be fair, you know who is his agent.  The idea that he was ever taking a home town discount is dubious at best.

 
It's unlikely, but Jered Weaver did just that. 

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

Milwaukee is the smallest market, actually.

If Bryant was a free agent, surely he'd get more. He's not though. The rights that teams and players have are collectively bargained. For Boras to argue with the Cubs and threaten litigation over them acting well within their rights is absurd.

If the union has such an issue with this- then they should bring it up next time they negotiate the CBA, or offer to give something back to the owners in exchange for adjusting the rules. Otherwise, this is all a load of garbage.

 
Exactly, and the MLBPA isn't exactly a weak labor organization--it made its deal and now it doesn't like it. It's laughable that people are going ape over a millionaire likely having to wait more one year to earn many more millions years from now. How unfairly this world is treating Kris Bryant!

 

[Toe Nash]

 
Exactly, and the MLBPA isn't exactly a weak labor organization--it made its deal and now it doesn't like it. It's laughable that people are going ape over a millionaire likely having to wait more one year to earn many more millions years from now. How unfairly this world is treating Kris Bryant!

People keep saying this, and I'm not exactly going ape personally, but it's not that he just has to wait an extra year, it's that he actually loses a year of earning power. It's disingenuous to say the former.
 
If brought up at the beginning of the year he starts getting arbitration money in 2018 and then hits free agency for 2021. 
 
If they wait two weeks each of those is a year later. Then he's a year older when he hits FA and he gets a smaller contract.
 
Yes either way he's making a lot of money if he ends up with the career we're expecting. But even with good health, he's going to make a decent chunk less money overall. If he has a career-altering injury in 2021, when he would have scored a big contract already (or 2018), it's a much greater difference.
 
As to the world treating him unfairly, well...the world hasn't treated Ricketts very unfairly either, him being the heir to a huge fortune and all.

 

[grimshaw]

 
And stop with the fucking tired takes on small-market teams. The Royals have a $114 million payroll this season and were a Bumgarner away from winning a World Series, they're doing fine. The smallest payroll in baseball just signed Giancarlo Stanton and Christian Yelich. Teams don't sign guys to extensions because they don't want to, not because they can't afford it. Cincinnati is the smallest market in MLB and gave Joey Votto $225 million. That is a paradigm shift from the late 90s and you know it. 

When has that paradigm shift happened exactly?  Aside from the tv deals injecting revenue flow, the trend is still the same.
 
Top 3 payrolls in baseball in 2000 were 92, 88 and 84 million.  Bottom three were 24, 20 and 16.
In 2005 the top 3 were 205, 121, and 104 and the bottom three were 38, 36 and 29.
In 2010 the top 3 were 206, 162 and 146 and the bottom three were 51, 38, and 35.
In 2014 the top 3 were 235, 203, and 180 and the bottom three were 77, 47 and 44.
 
The Royals, Rays and Pirates have had good teams in recent years because they got their heads smashed in year after year and got prime draft picks with some low to mid market free agent signings.
 
Like I said before, I don't care how much a player ultimately makes and agree that most owners have hundreds of millions to spare and are rich assholes.  I've even defended the fact that Bryant getting sent down was the right move, though as a fan, disappointing. 

 

[Lars The Wanderer]

If Boras was so concerned about the Cubs fielding the best team possible to start the year, he could agree to an arb buyout deal. Pretty sure Bryant would start the year on the big league club after that.

 

[jon abbey]

 Hell, even the Yankees won't outright release A-Rod which shows something. 

 
That he looks like he can still hit, in spring training at least? 1.026 OPS in 44 PAs, including a .432 OBP. 

 

[Comfortably Lomb]

People keep saying this, and I'm not exactly going ape personally, but it's not that he just has to wait an extra year, it's that he actually loses a year of earning power. It's disingenuous to say the former.
 
If brought up at the beginning of the year he starts getting arbitration money in 2018 and then hits free agency for 2021. 
 
If they wait two weeks each of those is a year later. Then he's a year older when he hits FA and he gets a smaller contract.
 
Yes either way he's making a lot of money if he ends up with the career we're expecting. But even with good health, he's going to make a decent chunk less money overall. If he has a career-altering injury in 2021, when he would have scored a big contract already (or 2018), it's a much greater difference.
 
As to the world treating him unfairly, well...the world hasn't treated Ricketts very unfairly either, him being the heir to a huge fortune and all.

 
My heart weeps for him and his family.

 

[Average Reds]

When has that paradigm shift happened exactly?  Aside from the tv deals injecting revenue flow, the trend is still the same.
 
Top 3 payrolls in baseball in 2000 were 92, 88 and 84 million.  Bottom three were 24, 20 and 16.
In 2005 the top 3 were 205, 121, and 104 and the bottom three were 38, 36 and 29.
In 2010 the top 3 were 206, 162 and 146 and the bottom three were 51, 38, and 35.
In 2014 the top 3 were 235, 203, and 180 and the bottom three were 77, 47 and 44.
 
The Royals, Rays and Pirates have had good teams in recent years because they got their heads smashed in year after year and got prime draft picks with some low to mid market free agent signings.
 
Like I said before, I don't care how much a player ultimately makes and agree that most owners have hundreds of millions to spare and are rich assholes.  I've even defended the fact that Bryant getting sent down was the right move, though as a fan, disappointing. 

 
If all of the bolded is true, then why the anti-union screed(s) in your previous posts?
 
The MLBPA overreached in this instance and deserve criticism for it.  Everything else you've said about the union is essentially irrelevant, incoherent nonsense.

 

[glennhoffmania]

People keep saying this, and I'm not exactly going ape personally, but it's not that he just has to wait an extra year, it's that he actually loses a year of earning power. It's disingenuous to say the former.
 
If brought up at the beginning of the year he starts getting arbitration money in 2018 and then hits free agency for 2021. 
 
If they wait two weeks each of those is a year later. Then he's a year older when he hits FA and he gets a smaller contract.
 
Yes either way he's making a lot of money if he ends up with the career we're expecting. But even with good health, he's going to make a decent chunk less money overall. If he has a career-altering injury in 2021, when he would have scored a big contract already (or 2018), it's a much greater difference.
 
As to the world treating him unfairly, well...the world hasn't treated Ricketts very unfairly either, him being the heir to a huge fortune and all.

 
Who gives a shit?  There is a CBA that controls here.  Both sides bargained for it and agreed to it.  Bryant and his people are aware of it.  If he didn't like the terms he was free to pursue another profession that doesn't have such "unfair" labor practices.  Enough already.

 

[grimshaw]

 
If all of the bolded is true, then why the anti-union screed(s) in your previous posts?
 
The MLBPA overreached in this instance and deserve criticism for it.  Everything else you've said about the union is essentially irrelevant, incoherent nonsense.

It may sound too nonsensical so . . rain check?

 

[Toe Nash]

 
My heart weeps for him and his family.

Thanks for the contribution then.
 
Look, in any MLB labor dispute it's millionaires vs billionaires and all of them make more than 99.9% of the country. No one is starving here so we should just leave that argument out.
 
And yes it's in the CBA so ultimately nothing will happen unless they want to address it in the next round of negotiations.
 
I'm mostly pointing out that it's not a minor complaint and while Bryant doesn't have a way to get any remedy, they are definitely justified in making some noise about it, and maybe next time the union will address it and come up with a real solution. And maybe they won't since they don't care about minor leaguers or players with very little service time.
 
Finally, after reading more on Ricketts I should note that he wasn't exactly born with a silver spoon in his mouth, so my bad on that. But, it's still very rich people vs. even richer people, so no one should be pulling any heartstrings on either side.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

People keep saying this, and I'm not exactly going ape personally, but it's not that he just has to wait an extra year, it's that he actually loses a year of earning power. It's disingenuous to say the former.
 
If brought up at the beginning of the year he starts getting arbitration money in 2018 and then hits free agency for 2021. 
 
If they wait two weeks each of those is a year later. Then he's a year older when he hits FA and he gets a smaller contract.
 
Yes either way he's making a lot of money if he ends up with the career we're expecting. But even with good health, he's going to make a decent chunk less money overall. If he has a career-altering injury in 2021, when he would have scored a big contract already (or 2018), it's a much greater difference.
 
As to the world treating him unfairly, well...the world hasn't treated Ricketts very unfairly either, him being the heir to a huge fortune and all.

 
I'm curious how much you actually think it will cost him. As in a dollar figure? 
 
The most recent example of this scenario we have is David Price, who was a 4th year arbitration case this past offseason. While he's a pitcher and not a hitter, he's of the same pedigree as a premiere player (assuming Bryant becomes that for this discussion) in his age 29 season. He agreed to $19.75M to avoid arbitration. So he lost, what, $6-8M off of what his market rate might be? What do you think the extra year is going to cost him on the FA market next season? He's still going to get his 7 years at market rate. Just like Bryant will still get his 10/$300 when his turn comes. That extra year means even less on hitter under 30 than it does for a pitcher of any age.
 
 

I'm mostly pointing out that it's not a minor complaint and while Bryant doesn't have a way to get any remedy, they are definitely justified in making some noise about it,
 

 
No. No, they aren't. They're justified to be upset about it. They are not justified in having his agent spout off to the press about it. Boras knows the rules. He would like to see them changed to better suit himself and his clients and he's using Bryant to try to do it. If Bryant hadn't handled it so well himself, he likely would have put a target on his client's back for a lot of fans (and teammates as well). 

 

[chrisfont9]

 
This is actually what Atlanta did with Jason Heyward, so he is a free agent after this season instead of after next season. I'd like to see a poll on how Braves fans feel about that decision now (obviously I know he was traded this winter). 

Indeed, that trade would have been next winter instead of this one.

 

[grimshaw]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet either - but the guy did sign a 6.7 million signing bonus as well. As a comparison, Xander Bogaerts signed for $410,000 and may take all his pre-arb years to make that.  I think most people would agree that Bryant is in a different class of prospect, but X did reach top 3 status just two years ago.
 
Can't miss first rounders are pretty well compensated.

 

[moly99]

So you guys have no problem with a tremendously great player--someone who clearly is good enough to merit a spot on the Cubs' roster--being in AAA because it helps the Cubs' longterm contract plans?

 
When players are on the other end of the situation do they voluntarily hand money back? No. So why should clubs voluntarily make poor financial decisions in favor of the player?
 
I fully feel for players in the NFL with unguaranteed contracts that get cut after being injured. But a baseball player who has been compensated with millions wanting the club to voluntarily move up his first contract extension is not really being oppressed.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet either - but the guy did sign a 6.7 million signing bonus as well. As a comparison, Xander Bogaerts signed for $410,000 and may take all his pre-arb years to make that.  I think most people would agree that Bryant is in a different class of prospect, but X did reach top 3 status just two years ago.
 
Can't miss first rounders are pretty well compensated.

Overall, I see your point, but to the bolded, X made that and a bit more last year alone ($517K to be exact). Pre-arb salaries are low in the relative sense, but those players aren't exactly living check to check either.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

 
When players are on the other end of the situation do they voluntarily hand money back? No. So why should clubs voluntarily make poor financial decisions in favor of the player?
 
I fully feel for players in the NFL with unguaranteed contracts that get cut after being injured. But a baseball player who has been compensated with millions wanting the club to voluntarily move up his first contract extension is not really being oppressed.

I never said anything like that. I'm the one being oppressed.

 

[moly99]

I never said anything like that. I'm the one being oppressed.

 
The MLBPA is making that argument. "Oppressed" may be too loaded of a word, though. Perhaps "treated unfairly" is better.

 

[nattysez]

2 runs in 2 games is not making life any easier for the Cubs.  8 more days before they can call him up, I believe.

 

[NDame616]

I'd be surprised if they called him up the exact date "they can". A week or so later someone will get a hangnail, go on the DL and he will get called up

 

[joe dokes]

 
I'm curious how much you actually think it will cost him. As in a dollar figure? 
 
The most recent example of this scenario we have is David Price, who was a 4th year arbitration case this past offseason. While he's a pitcher and not a hitter, he's of the same pedigree as a premiere player (assuming Bryant becomes that for this discussion) in his age 29 season. He agreed to $19.75M to avoid arbitration. So he lost, what, $6-8M off of what his market rate might be? What do you think the extra year is going to cost him on the FA market next season? He's still going to get his 7 years at market rate. Just like Bryant will still get his 10/$300 when his turn comes. That extra year means even less on hitter under 30 than it does for a pitcher of any age.
 
 
 
No. No, they aren't. They're justified to be upset about it. They are not justified in having his agent spout off to the press about it. Boras knows the rules. He would like to see them changed to better suit himself and his clients and he's using Bryant to try to do it. If Bryant hadn't handled it so well himself, he likely would have put a target on his client's back for a lot of fans (and teammates as well). 

 
 
The only way things get changed -- or to build momentum for the change -- is to complain.  Airlines, for example, were allowed to do all sorts of shitty stuff to passengers. Now the list of shitty things has been pared down (from infinite to lengthy).  That only happened because people complained publicly.  So, while "tough shit you signed a contract" is a prefectly reasonable response to Bryant and his people, "therefore, you should shut up" isn't, IMO.

 

[MakMan44]

He wasn't saying "shut up" to Bryant, he was saying it about Boras. And he's right, Boras should shut up. He doesn't care about changing the system, he just cares about his client not being on the MLB roster. 

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I'll ask the questions here, Hoffy.

Post of the thread. Kudos

 

[soxhop411]

@ESPNChiCubs: Breaking. Source: Kris Bryant to be called up by Cubs on Friday. Story coming at http://t.co/iRRtXbR1Vj

 

[AbbyNoho]

When I was a teenager I worked at Stop & Shop, which was unionized. Our contracts stated that if we were scheduled to work a 6-hour shift we were entitled to a paid 15-minute break. The management would schedule us to work 5 hours and 45 minutes so that we worked the same amount of actual time as a 6-hour shift but were paid for 15 fewer minutes. It always made me mad and I wish the union had said something.
 
I think the Cubs are doing absolutely what they should be doing, but from Bryant's point of view I can understand wanting someone to stick up for you when you're getting screwed, even if there isn't much of a legal leg to stand upon.

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

When I was a teenager, I worked for Stop and Shop, which was unionized. The contract stated that all employees, union or not, had to start paying union dues after two months of employment. I was a summer worker only, but regardless, I effectively earned less than minimum wage the last month of my employment due to having to pay union dues to a union I was not going to join. It always made me mad, and I wish the union had done something about changing that rule for summer employees.

Cubs are 5-3, tied for first in NL Central as of this morning.

 

[DJnVa]

I kinda hope Bryant goes 0-15 over this weekend and the Cubs send him back down and people whine.
 
All I want from sports is to be entertaining, and that would be entertaining.

 

[OfTheCarmen]

 

[AbbyNoho]

When I was a teenager, I worked for Stop and Shop, which was unionized. The contract stated that all employees, union or not, had to start paying union dues after two months of employment. I was a summer worker only, but regardless, I effectively earned less than minimum wage the last month of my employment due to having to pay union dues to a union I was not going to join. It always made me mad, and I wish the union had done something about changing that rule for summer employees.

Cubs are 5-3, tied for first in NL Central as of this morning.

 
The Stop & Shop union really did suck.

 

[phrenile]

I kinda hope Bryant goes 0-15 over this weekend and the Cubs send him back down and people whine.

So far so... bad: 0 for 4 with three strikeouts.

 

[Frank Fenway]

Lol. SSS and all, but eat some crow Mr. Boras.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Lol. SSS and all, but eat some crow Mr. Boras.

 
You know the Boras wonks are just going to say he lost his spring training momentum by spending 10 days in Des Moines putting up a 1.042 OPS and K'ing in 28% of his plate appearances.

 

[mauidano]

I see the Chicago fans have already embraced him!
 
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/cubs-fans-are-already-heckling-kris-bryant-with-you-su-1698544054?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

The Stop & Shop union really did suck.

I've been highly suspicious and instinctively disapproving of unions ever since.

 

[Plympton91]

Game winning double and little league home run last night. What a sweet, sweet swing

 

[DJnVa]

Game winning double and little league home run last night. What a sweet, sweet swing

 
I thought I missed something at first, but the double and "LL HR" were the same event, so yeah.
 
 
Since his first game he has 5 BB and 1 K.