Momentum growing among GM/owners for the DH in the NL

[nvalvo]

My view about the "strategy" argument is that it is an artifact remaining from an older model of fandom in which fans identify with the team's manager, and thus invest things managers do with greater significance — pitching changes, pinch-hitting, calling plays (sacrifices, hitting and running, etc.) — than perhaps they really deserve.

I identify — and I think most here do, too — more with GMs than managers. (I suspect the popularity of fantasy baseball is making this approach to fandom more widespread.) Roster construction has the interesting challenges, while for in-game strategy, I basically just consult The Book, and tend to assume that any variation from the approach espoused within is due to factors we don't know about. I don't get too worked up about hit and run decisions, but I care a ton about the draft.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Commish Rob Manfred tells reporters that the NL could get the DH by the 2017 season. #MLBNHotStove

— Mel Antonen (@MelAntonen) January 21, 2016

Link

This move would make Manfred a more effective commissioner in one year than Bud was over 23 years.

 

[grimshaw]

I can't even imagine some of those scores in Coors field now. . .

 

[Rasputin]

Link

This move would make Manfred a more effective commissioner in one year than Bud was over 23 years.

Bud Selig expanded the league, expanded the playoffs twice, introduced inter-league play, got a testing program, got a domestic violence program, and added instant replay and, oh by the way, hasn't had a labor stoppage in twenty years.

You don't have to like all the things he did, but calling him ineffective is just a lie.

 

[SumnerH]

Bud Selig expanded the league, expanded the playoffs twice, introduced inter-league play, got a testing program, got a domestic violence program, and added instant replay and, oh by the way, hasn't had a labor stoppage in twenty years.

You don't have to like all the things he did, but calling him ineffective is just a lie.

Yeah, avoiding labor stoppages is like the most important thing a commissioner can do from a fan perspective. From 1972-1994 there were 8 stoppages, one every time the labor contract came up for renewal. The longest period without a strike or lockout was 5 years. Since the 1994-1995 offseason there hasn't been a single stoppage. That alone is pretty great.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/columnist/bodley/2004-08-20-bodley_x.htm makes a case for Selig as the best commissioner in MLB history. I wouldn't go that far, but he was more than solid.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

If he were good looking or came across better on TV, fans would have a higher opinion of him.

 

[timlinin8th]

The Definitive Case For Universal DH

The National Federation of State High School Associations allows coaches to use the DH position to substitute for any single player -- pitcher or not -- in the field.

Using this rule in MLB would be allow far more strategy in roster-building than the double switch ever has. If this was the rule they adopted for both leagues it would be pretty cool.

(Probably not so hot for people who don't know the game, but since 99% of the time it'd be used for pitchers anyways not too big a deal)

 

[Rasputin]

If he were good looking or came across better on TV, fans would have a higher opinion of him.

The same would be true of everyone who has ever been on TV.

Using this rule in MLB would be allow far more strategy in roster-building than the double switch ever has. If this was the rule they adopted for both leagues it would be pretty cool.

(Probably not so hot for people who don't know the game, but since 99% of the time it'd be used for pitchers anyways not too big a deal)

I like the idea of being able to use it for anyone. You have a pitcher who can hit? Use it for your light-hitting shortstop, or to give your first baseman a half a day of rest.

 

[Rice4HOF]

Light hitting shortstop or backup catcher maybe I could see. A pitcher hitting for himself so the DH hits for the first baseman? Couldn't imagine that ever happening!

 

[Rasputin]

Light hitting shortstop or backup catcher maybe I could see. A pitcher hitting for himself so the DH hits for the first baseman? Couldn't imagine that ever happening!

Even if the first baseman fields just fine, but got hit on the wrist int he first half of a doubleheader?

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

My view about the "strategy" argument is that it is an artifact remaining from an older model of fandom in which fans identify with the team's manager, and thus invest things managers do with greater significance — pitching changes, pinch-hitting, calling plays (sacrifices, hitting and running, etc.) — than perhaps they really deserve.

I identify — and I think most here do, too — more with GMs than managers. (I suspect the popularity of fantasy baseball is making this approach to fandom more widespread.) Roster construction has the interesting challenges, while for in-game strategy, I basically just consult The Book, and tend to assume that any variation from the approach espoused within is due to factors we don't know about. I don't get too worked up about hit and run decisions, but I care a ton about the draft.

Interesting hypothesis, and probably a good deal of truth in it. Another thing I suspect is operating here is that people who focus a lot on "strategy" on the managerial-decision level are probably not as interested as many of us in the pitcher/batter chess game. To me one of the chief sources of interest in baseball is the clash between a pitcher's approach to getting a hitter out and a hitter's approach to getting on base, the way those two strategies converge and wrestle for dominance on each pitch. But if you don't get into that, then a conventional AB is just kind of waiting around for something to happen, so something like a bunt or hit-and-run takes on more significance as a source of interest.

 

[Idabomb333]

Even if the first baseman fields just fine, but got hit on the wrist int he first half of a doubleheader?

For that to make sense, the backup first baseman would probably need to be really terrible or also injured or something like that. It would take a VERY weird set of circumstances for the team to be better off with someone at first base who would be expected to hit worst out of 9 fielders including the pitcher.

 

[timlinin8th]

For that to make sense, the backup first baseman would probably need to be really terrible or also injured or something like that. It would take a VERY weird set of circumstances for the team to be better off with someone at first base who would be expected to hit worst out of 9 fielders including the pitcher.

While you are absolutely correct, that it COULD happen (and maybe once in a blue moon actually DOES) is partly why I like the idea of the rule. But then I really get into it when a smart coach does something against the grain but totally within the rules.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Bud Selig expanded the league, expanded the playoffs twice, introduced inter-league play, got a testing program, got a domestic violence program, and added instant replay and, oh by the way, hasn't had a labor stoppage in twenty years.

You don't have to like all the things he did, but calling him ineffective is just a lie.

First off, it was said tongue in cheek. But if you really want to compare them, getting rid of an arcane and completely illogical discrepancy between the leagues would probably be more, or as, important to baseball as anything on that list besides the DV program and the labor stoppages. Selig may have been effective at getting his ideas pushed through, but if the ideas are bad then I'd hardly call the changes effective overall. The positive impact of expanding the league, expanding the playoffs and IL play are, at a minimum, debatable. And I'm talking about more than just the bottom line here so I don't need a reminder about how much revenue the WC rounds generate. The irony is that Manfred adding the DH to the NL would be a great move mostly because of Selig's really poor decision to institute IL play.

But again it was hyperbole, since it would be pretty much impossible to do as much in one year as someone else did in 23.

 

[Rasputin]

First off, it was said tongue in cheek. But if you really want to compare them, getting rid of an arcane and completely illogical discrepancy between the leagues would probably be more, or as, important to baseball as anything on that list besides the DV program and the labor stoppages. Selig may have been effective at getting his ideas pushed through, but if the ideas are bad then I'd hardly call the changes effective overall. The positive impact of expanding the league, expanding the playoffs and IL play are, at a minimum, debatable. And I'm talking about more than just the bottom line here so I don't need a reminder about how much revenue the WC rounds generate. The irony is that Manfred adding the DH to the NL would be a great move mostly because of Selig's really poor decision to institute IL play.

But again it was hyperbole, since it would be pretty much impossible to do as much in one year as someone else did in 23.

Most people like interleague play.

The wild cards have been a huge benefit to the game and not just financially.

Effective doesn't mean good.

Eliminating the pitchers hitting wouldn't be remotely as important as the wild cards.

The NL should have adopted the DH bank when they eliminated the league presidents.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

In sports, usually good ideas are thwarted by them running contrary to good business sense or financial interests; occasionally, financial interests of owners are thwarted by their ideas being just plain dumb (see: Charles Steinberg's entire opus, Remy and Wally for a small-potatoes example, but also some of the NHL's southward expansions failing).

Here, however, we have something that is both a good, right idea for the sport and entertainment, and aligned with the financial interests of the owners, somehow not getting traction despite that - out of sheer inertia and clinging to nostalgia. It's downright bizarre.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Most people like interleague play.

The wild cards have been a huge benefit to the game and not just financially.

Effective doesn't mean good.

Eliminating the pitchers hitting wouldn't be remotely as important as the wild cards.

The NL should have adopted the DH bank when they eliminated the league presidents.

The first Wild Card was a great idea. This 2nd wild card with a one game playoff is awful.

 

[Toe Nash]

Most people like interleague play.

Is this true? Attendance was high at first but the novelty has worn off. Now it's not even during its own "interleague weekends."

I think people like some interleague matchups like Mets v Yankees, but I don't think attendance or interest is very high for something like Padres v Blue Jays. It's here to stay, but I'm not sure many people would miss it if it were greatly reduced.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

The first Wild Card was a great idea. This 2nd wild card with a one game playoff is awful.

They are trying to recreate either 1978 or the third Giants/Dodgers game in which "The Giants Win the Pennant! The Giants Win the Pennant!" Or both.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

The commissioner also addressed the designated-hitter debate, saying that when he spoke last week of a possible expansion of the DH to the National League, he should have included an emphasis that change is not likely.

“I think the status quo on the DH has served the industry well,” he said. “I think it serves an important purpose in terms of defining the difference between the American League and the National League, and that league definition is important to us from a competitive perspective.”

http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/Commissioner-Rob-Manfred-says-strike-zone-could-6783329.php

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

EDIT: Beaten to it.

 

[DJnVa]

“I think the status quo on the DH has served the industry well,” he said. “I think it serves an important purpose in terms of defining the difference between the American League and the National League, and that league definition is important to us from a competitive perspective.”

Can someone explain this?

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

I'm not even sure the commissioner could explain it.

 

[soxhop411]

http://www.sfchronicle.com/giants/article/Commissioner-Rob-Manfred-says-strike-zone-could-6783329.php

bullshit... Its 100% posturing by MLB.. Im positive that the MLBPA will use the DH as a bargaining chip in the CBA talks. If the Cards say there is progress than I assume that "privately" NL teams are in favor of it... Why come out in favor and risk a potential bargaining chip by the MLBPA

 

[soxhop411]

By saying that the DH in the NL is not close to happening they (the owners) can then "cave" when the MLBPA brings it up during CBA talks. Of course the owners will ask for compromises by the MLBPA in exchange for the DH in the NL. It hurts the owners negotiating power to say they are close/ in favor of the DH in the NL publicly

 

[Rasputin]

The first Wild Card was a great idea. This 2nd wild card with a one game playoff is awful.

The one game playoff is awful. The second wild card is better than the first one.

 

[nvalvo]

Interesting hypothesis, and probably a good deal of truth in it. Another thing I suspect is operating here is that people who focus a lot on "strategy" on the managerial-decision level are probably not as interested as many of us in the pitcher/batter chess game. To me one of the chief sources of interest in baseball is the clash between a pitcher's approach to getting a hitter out and a hitter's approach to getting on base, the way those two strategies converge and wrestle for dominance on each pitch. But if you don't get into that, then a conventional AB is just kind of waiting around for something to happen, so something like a bunt or hit-and-run takes on more significance as a source of interest.

I totally agree.