Yeah, damn Rays. Could have been worse I suppose. Could have been NY. But such a likable guy, hope he gets a lot of PT and does well there. Thanks for the memories.Al Zarilla said:Damn Rays, but happy he got picked up.
Plympton91 said:Like I said, an organization that focuses on what players can do, instead of what they can't.
John Farrell buried Daniel Nava during a year he finished 9th in the league in hitting because, hunch. Then he gave his job to a washed up, injured shell of what used to be Grady Sizemore because he went into a perfectly normal season opening slump. Then this year, Nava played hurt because he knew his manager was looking for any possible excuse to bury him again, and predictably couldn't succeed.Rasputin said:There's only ever been one thing he was good at and he hasn't been good at it this year. When you consider how old he is, you can hardly chalk this one up as a failure of anyone.
This is especially egregious because it worked out so poorly.Plympton91 said:John Farrell buried Daniel Nava during a year he finished 9th in the league in hitting because, hunch.
This is the closest thing you have to a point. But Farrell gave him three weeks of rope. He was atrocious. And it's not like he had had a long history of success; he'd been an ordinary hitter except for 2013, which was pretty heavily BABIP-goosed. In the meantime, Sizemore was a former All-Star who had started the year blazing hot. You're basically asking Farrell to have treated Nava like a trusted veteran instead of a guy who had hit big for one (probably somewhat lucky) year.Then he gave his job to a washed up, injured shell of what used to be Grady Sizemore because he went into a perfectly normal season opening slump.
Hurt or not, Nava sucked--and this time, he sucked in the context of an OF logjam where most of his competitors were better defenders.Then this year, Nava played hurt because he knew his manager was looking for any possible excuse to bury him again, and predictably couldn't succeed.
Plympton91 said:Maybe that's why John Farrell has been a last place manager in all but one of his major league seasons.
Savin Hillbilly said:This is especially egregious because it worked out so poorly.
This is the closest thing you have to a point. But Farrell gave him three weeks of rope. He was atrocious. And it's not like he had had a long history of success; he'd been an ordinary hitter except for 2013, which was pretty heavily BABIP-goosed. In the meantime, Sizemore was a former All-Star who had started the year blazing hot. You're basically asking Farrell to have treated Nava like a trusted veteran instead of a guy who had hit big for one (probably somewhat lucky) year.
I will grant you this much: the FO pretty much cooked Nava in 2014 by acquiring Sizemore instead of a RHH extra OF like Chris Young. Nava in an ordinary year (i.e. not 2013) is a platoon player. In 2014 Ben gave Farrell a roster where Nava couldn't be platooned. That's not Nava's fault, but it's not Farrell's either.
Hurt or not, Nava sucked--and this time, he sucked in the context of an OF logjam where most of his competitors were better defenders.
E5 Yaz said:
Farrell didn't finish last in either of his two Toronto seasons
No, he hasn't. He's always been an extreme platoon player. His identification as a switch-hitter created some confusion about that, but the record should have cleared up that confusion for neutral observers long ago. He has a career .581 OPS vs. LHP. His best single-season OPS vs. LHP was .647 in 2013. He can't hit LHP for shit. Full stop.Adrian's Dome said:Nava has always been a bit of a platoon player
He does not "mash" RHP. He has never "mashed" anybody. He was, at his peak, a very effective on-base machine vs. RHP thanks to a good walk rate and excellent BABIP. But his career ISO vs. RHP is .130, and in his best season, 2013, it was .162. Those would be fine power numbers for a middle infielder or a CF. For a mediocre defensive corner OF, they're, well, mediocre.but an extremely effective one on the heavy side of the platoon in that he mashes RHP.
"Kill you on defense" is subjective, and there's been a lot of division on this board about how bad an OF he was, but he has certainly never been better than fringe-average, and probably not that good.With vast majority of MLB pitching is right handed, there's a lot of value in a guy like that, especially if he doesn't kill you on defense.
"The entire body of work the years before", at the beginning of the 2014 season, was just 1041 PA of above-average but not outstanding offense for a corner OF (.274/.369/.413) plus mediocre defense. And again, remember that Sizemore, at the time Victorino returned, had had a pretty hot start--and unlike Nava, couldn't be optioned. So the team's only choice besides demoting Nava was to demote JBJ and play Victorino in CF--thus giving us a defensive OF vs. RHP of Sizemore/Victorino/Nava and vs. LHP of Gomes/Victorino/Sizemore. Maybe that would have been a better choice, but with Nava featuring a .140/.240/.269 line at the time, and JBJ making everybody ooh and aah in CF, it's pretty easy to see why they didn't think so.Thirdly, there are no major leaguers who've never gone through a three-week slump. It happens, and to have your entire job based on a small sample size as opposed to the entire body of work the years before is shortsighted, especially when you're losing your job to the Wade Miller of outfielders.
Plympton91 said:There is a knee jerk tendency to defend the organization among the kids.
I feel I do that regularly, particularly when they are material to the overall point.DrewDawg said:
What about your knee-jerk tendency to make factual errors in your posts, then completely ignore people that call them out?
Do you think engaging them and correcting your mistakes would lead to a better discussion than everyone just shouting into the wind?