That’s a championship trade.Wonder if the Eagles front office had fun making that deal
25.4 guaranteedRemind me what the money is.
Sorry I should specify. What did Philly save because it seems like they got a lot back for a guy I thought they owed a lot of money to that they were not hot to play.25.4 guaranteed
22 (non-guaranteed)
25 (non-guaranteed)
26 (non-guaranteed)
Hmmm....My guess is they stick with Hurts and move down with some extra picks from a team desperate for a QB.
They took a 33.8M cap hit. He would have been paid 34.6M to play, so they saved less than $1M.Sorry I should specify. What did Philly save because it seems like they got a lot back for a guy I thought they owed a lot of money to that they were not hot to play.
The Patriots should. What have you seen in Hurts that makes you think he's worth that?Hmmm....
Pats trade #15 this year, a 2022 second rounder and Gilmore. Who says no?
No, I meant for the #6 overall not Hurts.The Patriots should. What have you seen in Hurts that makes you think he's worth that?
Presumably he meant trade for the Eagles pick, not Hurts.The Patriots should. What have you seen in Hurts that makes you think he's worth that?
My bad for misunderstandingNo, I meant for the #6 overall not Hurts.
Largest dead money hit in historyThey took a 33.8M cap hit. He would have been paid 34.6M to play, so they saved less than $1M.
Okay, then my instinct is this is a fair deal. If Wentz sucks Philly wins, if Wentz is good, Indy wins. I can see either scenario happening so fair deal.They took a 33.8M cap hit. He would have been paid 34.6M to play, so they saved less than $1M.
I think at #6 you'd probably be in a similar position to #15: the top 4 QBs off the board and a lot of talent at receiver/corner/linebacker to draft from. I wouldn't do it unless, say, Fields is on the board.Hmmm....
Pats trade #15 this year, a 2022 second rounder and Gilmore. Who says no?
Problem is that second has a very good chance of becoming a first even if he sucks as long as he doesn't get hurt. And if he sucks that could be a pretty high first.Okay, then my instinct is this is a fair deal. If Wentz sucks Philly wins, if Wentz is good, Indy wins. I can see either scenario happening so fair deal.
If he sucks, Indy will know and do what they can to not play him, right?Problem is that second has a very good chance of becoming a first even if he sucks. And if he sucks that could be a pretty high first.
Yeah -- there could be a lot of shenanigans if things are going badly for the Colts at the halfway mark of the season.If he sucks, Indy will know and do what they can to not play him, right?
My initial reaction was that conditional is likely going to end up being a first, especially since Indy keeps their first and second round picks this year.Problem is that second has a very good chance of becoming a first even if he sucks. And if he sucks that could be a pretty high first.
My target would be Lance.I think at #6 you'd probably be in a similar position to #15: the top 4 QBs off the board and a lot of talent at receiver/corner/linebacker to draft from. I wouldn't do it unless, say, Fields is on the board.
Given Wentz's history, couldn't this be as much an injury clause as it is a "he sucks" clause?If he sucks, Indy will know and do what they can to not play him, right?
Is Sudfeld a free agent?Yeah -- there could be a lot of shenanigans if things are going badly for the Colts at the halfway mark of the season.
This was my thought at first, but if you're going off regular season (which I assume the clause is), he hasn't actually missed that many snaps. He would have qualified for this in 3 out of 5 years, and had he not been benched last year, it would have only been 1 time in 5 years that he missed it. Snap counts pulled from QBs on this site.Given Wentz's history, couldn't this be as much an injury clause as it is a "he sucks" clause?
I think there's a pretty good chance he's not there at #6, but for sure much crazier things have happened. I love Lance and would 100% do that deal to move up for him.My target would be Lance.
This was where my mind went as well (or use Gilmore to fetch a 2021 second-rounder elsewhere, like Dallas). I would expect one of the top 4 QBs would still be there at 1-6 (any of whom, I think, would make this worthwhile from a Pats perspective), but you probably don't want to take that risk until draft night if you can help it.Hmmm....
Pats trade #15 this year, a 2022 second rounder and Gilmore. Who says no?
Indy makes it interesting, since his best year by far came with Reich.As an Eagle fan this trade stinks. An organizational failure from top to bottom. He's going to kick ass in Indy and I will be happy to see it.
If Bill thinks Trey Lance is the future, you do it every time. But I don’t think you have a shot at Wilson/Fields at #6.Hmmm....
Pats trade #15 this year, a 2022 second rounder and Gilmore. Who says no?
I don't follow the Eagles closely, but hasn't he been throwing to relative trash (other than the TEs) for a couple of years now? I checked out their 2019 wiki, and this was the final WR roster that year:Indy makes it interesting, since his best year by far came with Reich.
On the other hand, he was between average and bad every other season, and his clean pocket stats are horrific, so good chance he's not worth his deal even with the bonuses gone.
Will he? He’s regressed immensely.As an Eagle fan this trade stinks. An organizational failure from top to bottom. He's going to kick ass in Indy and I will be happy to see it.
I think if 1 and 2 are QB, there’s a pretty high chance Miami is trading out of 3 to someone banging on their door to get QB3 or Sewell.If Bill thinks Trey Lance is the future, you do it every time. But I don’t think you have a shot at Wilson/Fields at #6.
The issue with trading up to get a QB this year is that both the #2 and #3 picks are division rivals. My hope is that MIA doesn’t trade down from #3 and picks a non-QB. Then you can trade up with ATL to #4 and pick between two of Wilson/Fields/Lance.
I’m hoping ATL thinks they have 3 or 4 years of Ryan left. #15 + Gilmore (or whatever pick you get for him from a 3rd team) + 2022 1st rounder is a starting point.
I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.If Bill thinks Trey Lance is the future, you do it every time. But I don’t think you have a shot at Wilson/Fields at #6.
The issue with trading up to get a QB this year is that both the #2 and #3 picks are division rivals. My hope is that MIA doesn’t trade down from #3 and picks a non-QB. Then you can trade up with ATL to #4 and pick between two of Wilson/Fields/Lance.
I’m hoping ATL thinks they have 3 or 4 years of Ryan left. #15 + Gilmore (or whatever pick you get for him from a 3rd team) + 2022 1st rounder is a starting point.
Yeah, Carolina at 8, Denver at 9 and SF at 12 all could be more enticing than a team like the Eagles going all the way down to 15.Lots of mocks have Carolina trading with Miami at 3. That makes a lot of sense. Miami likely gets a WR and an extra future first rounder. Carolina gets Fields or Wilson.
He does have 2 top TEs though in Ertz and Goedert.*
I don't follow the Eagles closely, but hasn't he been throwing to relative trash (other than the TEs) for a couple of years now? I checked out their 2019 wiki, and this was the final WR roster that year:
Yuck.
- 13 Nelson Agholor
- 19 J. J. Arcega-Whiteside
- 16 Deontay Burnett
- 14 Robert Davis
- 83 Shelton Gibson
- 84 Greg Ward
I’m hoping ATL thinks they have 3 or 4 years of Ryan left. #15 + Gilmore (or whatever pick you get for him from a 3rd team) + 2022 1st rounder is a starting point.
These are among the first Patriots-Falcons trades I've seen proposed on SoSH that I'm not immediately inclined to laugh at. The #4 pick is very much in play, and there are certainly many people - both fans and people within the organization - who think Ryan could indeed have plenty left in the tank. So you guys might be onto something here.Could also offer 15 + 46 + Gilmore for 4 (4 is worth 1800 per Stuart chart, 15 + 46 = 1490, so it would be valuing Gilmore at 310 or the 59th pick, seems about right), but I doubt BB would want a gap from 4 to 99 or whatever the Pats 3rd round comp pick is.
I thought the cheap, intellectual coward Bengals had a rep for never trading.I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.
Cincy seems like the biggest trade-down risk ahead of #6. Maybe Atlanta, but they could sure use some top-end talent if they're riding with Ryan.
This is right. All rides on Atlanta. We know QBs are going to go 1+2. Unless the dolphins are giving up the 3rd overall for Watson, they arent trading that pick.I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.
Cincy seems like the biggest trade-down risk ahead of #6. Maybe Atlanta, but they could sure use some top-end talent if they're riding with Ryan.
I agree with this. The NFL window is very small, and Miami *may* be on the cusp of theirs opening. I think they are in the pure "best player available" stage.I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.
Especially when you consider that, if their progress continues, they won't be drafting this high again for a while. This is the one they cash in -- either in a slyer, or extremely over-compensated in tradeI agree with this. The NFL window is very small, and Miami *may* be on the cusp of theirs opening. I think they are in the pure "best player available" stage.
I think there are plenty of "have your cake and eat it too" scenarios where you trade down to like 7 and still get a blue chip guy and also pocket another top 50 pick. Two quality players is better than one.I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.
Ertz was still effective in 2019, but he looked washed last year. He also missed five games, as did Goedert.He does have 2 top TEs though in Ertz and Goedert.
But it's more than that, his on-target throws and INT% from clean pockets is garbage, and that is not a WR issue. Yes he doesn't have top WRs (though Agholor in LV was suddenly a much more productive player) but he's just not executing throws either, and watching him, his footwork and processing both look terrible. He's been in a pretty steep 3 year decline that bottomed out as legit probably the worst QB in the league last year.
He could be pretty good, but it won't be because of better WRs. If he improves it will be because they fix his footwork, and give him a lot of easy reads and easy throws.
Hot take.... I think a number (like 30+) of other QBs, including out own Cameron Newton could have been more effective. It was a bad spot, no doubt, but Wentz absolutely collapsed in every way.The other issue was Philly's offensive line: Brooks and Dillard missed the whole year, Lane Johnson missed 9 games, Isaac Seumalo missed 7 games, Jason Peters (who was only signed after Brooks got hurt) missed 8 games. It was basically the line Mahomes played behind in the Super Bowl, except all season long. I'm not saying Wentz didn't have issues (and even his one great season was overrated), but I think it would be nearly impossible for a QB to be effective in those conditions.
Two points:Hot take.... I think a number (like 30+) of other QBs, including out own Cameron Newton could have been more effective. It was a bad spot, no doubt, but Wentz absolutely collapsed in every way.
I mean, they put in a raw mid-round rookie to replace him and got much better production. That tells me that while the situation was bad, Wentz was part of the problem. Great QBs elevate talent, good QBs play above the talent level. If you get put in a bad situation and you're the worst in the league, and your replacement plays much better..... that tells me you're JAG.
I wonder if something along the lines of 15 +'22 1st + Gilmore for the #4 would work? Gilmore & #15 to help compete this year and it give's ATL another 1st round pick next year, possibly to target a Matt Ryan long-term replacement who can sit behind him for a year. Might be a little light.Could also offer 15 + 46 + Gilmore for 4 (4 is worth 1800 per Stuart chart, 15 + 46 = 1490, so it would be valuing Gilmore at 310 or the 59th pick, seems about right), but I doubt BB would want a gap from 4 to 99 or whatever the Pats 3rd round comp pick is.
Except if the absolute stud they want is WR1, and they can not only take the exact same player at 6 or 8 but also get a few extra second rounders tossed in.I don't see Miami passing on the opportunity to have their choice of any player in the draft outside of QBs. They seem to be at the point in team building where adding an absolute bona fide stud is more valuable than adding to their volume of picks.
Cincy seems like the biggest trade-down risk ahead of #6. Maybe Atlanta, but they could sure use some top-end talent if they're riding with Ryan.
Does anyone here think that a guy like Lance is worth investing their 2021 and 2022 first round picks plus an all pro corner to select?15 + Gilmore + 22 first would be fair.
The Pats don’t have any comp picks this year?
I am not sure how accurate it is, but the PFF Mock simulator has the comps as 96, 139 and 145.Re: comp picks, I guess the NFL hasn't announced them yet. I think the Pats are projected to get a 3rd rounder and two 4th rounders (Brady, Collins, Van Noy)
Yeah 96 makes sense because it is the first comp pick (since the Pats 3rd rounder was taken away)I am not sure how accurate it is, but the PFF Mock simulator has the comps as 96, 139 and 145.