Offseason rumors
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Lol. They deferred money on his 1 year contract.
View: https://twitter.com/jeffpassan/status/1744189241800720592?s=46
I think they most likely could have had him for 3/54mm which is something the Red Sox probably should have done given the current roster make up.
Very disappointing.
This is like a pillow contract but the pillow case is made of gold leaf. "How much do we need to overpay you to accept a one-year deal?"
It’s a guess, we will never know. The fact he signed a 1 year deal with deferred money speaks volumes.
Passan said there were multi year offers on the table. I just don’t think the Red Sox were willing to extend to the third year, based on multiple reports.
They could have absolutely signed him. That much is clear based on what he signed for.
Sox were offering around $14 million AAV for 2 years. So not very close. Unbelievable.
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1744192491379728575?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1744192491379728575?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
It says in the tweet above that he chose to be with the best team on a big one year deal over other longer offers. Why do you think that offer would move the needle? And how do you know they didn't make it, or similar? With the deferral, it seems to me Teoscar's motivations were more than simply years/money. And I'm no where near as sure as you are that he warrants 3/54, and you only said probably. I'm not even sure what you're expressing disappointment about.
Edit: So if it was really a 2/28 offer, yikes. I would probably pass on 3/54, but that's, well, disappointing. My foot is firmly in my mouth after seeing the actual numbers @SouthernBoSox.
If the Sox are going to be cheap fucks (which seems to be the case based on available information) I'd much rather see them spend money on pitching than on the outfield.
We desperately need at least 2 more starters and without that it wouldn't even matter if we had Teoscar or not.
Soler would be fine as a DH, but do we want a full time DH? Thought the idea was to get away from that, and he’s just a dreadful fielder. Would rather just go back to Turner or Duvall for a year.
it's possible, but presumably an OF will have to be traded away with Yoshida getting a lot of time in LF.
Yes. It is. He signed a 1 year deal. If we can’t assume the Red Sox could have signed him for 3/54 then can we assume anything at all? They could have signed him, they didn’t want to hit a number, so he went to a different team with a higher AAV on a short term deal.
This isn’t that hard to game out. They could have had him at “reasonable” numbers and they didn’t get him.
I’m disappointed they weren’t even competitive in pursuing a free agent who…..
A) had zero QO attached
B) filled a massive void
C) was available for non insane money or term
D) perfect park fit
Does this make Chris Taylor potentially available? He seems like a luxury for LA given their other modes this off-season. The strikeouts are creeping up into the scary zone but he’s a really solid player than can play all over the field. Only has 2 years left on his contract at $13M per year (club option for a 3rd year with a $4M buyout).
You're aware that it's the PLAYER who ultimately decides to sign, not the team, yes? For all we know he could have said "A foot of snow in one day? Fuck that, I'm not spending three years there!".
But there’s a correspondingly larger supply of hitting talent. So it doesn’t actually hurt you in any meaningful sense.
I’m not going to argue that as I agree with the point. If you’re relying on the free agent market for pitching, you need to accept the realities. You just have to hope that the management you bring in proves to be good at making those judgments. I’d argue that this is why Breslow’s sitting in the CBO role today.
It’s not risk reduction in that sense, per se, it’s just that teams seem to find good pitchers using the volume approach. Cleveland is a good case in point, that organization seems to mint starting pitchers, and it’s not because they’re using all their first and second round picks on them. It’s because they’ve proven to be good at development. If you look at Breslow’s hires, he poached a pitching coordinator from another team with a good pitching developmental record and made him director of pitching to help provide the developmental upgrade that Boston needed.
I’d argue that was Bloom’s biggest failure wasn’t his failure to waste high draft picks on pitchers, it was not sufficiently building out the pitching development infrastructure. Maybe it’s because he wasn’t allowed to hire the Tampa guys he knew best, but whatever, he failed in that regard. And one of the reasons he was brought in was to rebuild the depleted developmental infrastructure (someone posted the numbers here before, but under Dombrowski the developmental staff had been reduced by close to 50% on his watch).
For all the people here that think it impossible that the Rangers would trade a draft bust (Leiter) for KJ, if Texas thought that KJ was the closer that would help them repeat, they should be singing novenas that it all it would cost is a wasted pick. Seriously, between Leiter, Luis Perales, and Wikelman Gonzalez, I’d bet that the latter two turn out to be much better MLB pitchers (and not because I’m a fan, I’m skeptical on both due to command issues). But the latter two also cost Boston a combined $325k and they didn’t have burn the second pick to get them.
I’m bullish on the Breslow era because he hired a pitching director that has a distinctly different view than his own (listen to Willard talk about how he prefers guys with one ace level pitch regardless of control/command vs. Breslow’s comments about preferring guys with control/command over velocity because you can always teach the the former to throw harder). Anyway, tl;dr, Bloom’s problem wasn’t his draft approach, because the person singing the praises of Texas’s use of first round picks on Ps missed the fact that those guys contributed nothing, forcing Texas to sign FA pitching. His problem was that he didn’t bring in the right people to develop the arms that he had, because Boston has some really live arms in its minor league system.
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What‘s “reasonable?” Because your scenario has him taking the Dodgers’s money from us plus two more years at $15M apiece. Would you have advocated 2/$47M? 3/$70M? 4/$94M?
Cotillo reported they offered 2/28mm….
There was no choice to make here on Teoscar’s part.
And listen, this isn’t the end of the world, but this is disappointing as he was absolutely the best right handed power hitter in this class.
They will move on to worse - cheaper options. And we are allowed to be disappointed in that.
Let’s just face it, they’re not signing anyone of consequence this offseason. Imanaga, Snell, Montgomery are all pipe dreams. Someone like Stroman if he’s willing to sign for 1 year may be their limit. Werner screwed up at the press conference saying the full throttle thing when this was always going to be a bridge year. Maybe there’s a trade for a starter with 3+ years of control that doesn’t cost a top prospect but I’m not sure I see it.
Let’s hope it’s a bridge year to spending in 2024/2025.
Let’s hope it’s a bridge year to spending in 2024/2025.
What would you call Giolito? Let's just relax a little and see where the chips fall once free agency is over.
An innings eating 1-year rental who gave up 41 home runs last season? I’m not sure I follow. Are you saying he’s some long term building block?
They're purposely getting younger. Young players, for the most part, cost less. You would think this would allow them to add a premium free agent in the next year or three, but they have shown no inclination ... yet ... to do so. Trading from the prospect surplus to get a significant piece would at least give the impression that are willing to go after quality players. But until they do something of that nature, it's appropriate to be skeptical.
This is very silly. The amount of mental back flips people do on this board to defend the front office is bizzare.
I’m saying he could have been signed and he could have been signed for 3/54mm. There is NOTHING unreasonable about that assumption given he signed for 1/24 with 8 million of it deferred.
Again, this isn’t a disaster. But it is disappointing given the fit, lack of QO, and overall cost.
I'm saying he's a guy who was pitching to a 3.79 ERA last year before getting divorced, traded and then claimed off waivers in the span of half a season. He is also a guy who has a track record of strong performance prior to last season, which he was well on the way to at least partially correcting prior to the aforementioned circumstances. To minimize his value to an "innings eater who gave up 41 home runs last season" is choosing to ignore the nuance of the signing, to say the least.
NGL - if the reports are true about Toescar is it pretty disturbing.
Just resign Duval and get it over with.
Just resign Duval and get it over with.
Teoscar is probably fool's gold, NO one offered him what he wanted. Not at all perturbed by this.
I’m not defending the front office. I’m questioning the uncertain things you are saying with such certainty and occasionally all caps.
It just furthers the notion that they are not interested in really improving this roster to the point of being a serious contender. . 2024 is yet another year of hoping for best case scenarios to just be in the playoff conversation.
From Nightingale this morning:
He also writes that he expects neither Burnes nor Cease to be traded this month.
Lastly, the Sox are still leading the division in spending this offseason:
He also writes that he expects neither Burnes nor Cease to be traded this month.
Lastly, the Sox are still leading the division in spending this offseason:
Yeah I’m aware. So he’s here to eat innings and possibly rebound to a 3.79 ERA on a one year contract. It’s still not a consequential signing for a team that is clearly making an effort to get younger before they get better. That’s fine. But why are you pretending the Giolito signing has anything to do with building the next good Sox team?
Given that Teoscar Hernández did not sign with the Boston Red Sox there is no way to know, for certain, what his contract would be to play for the Boston Red Sox.
I am inferring what I believe they could have signed him for based on the information we have available.
If you want to disagree with those assumptions then by all means make your case.
But saying “well you don’t know that’s what he would sign” for is lazy and meaningless given it’s an impossibility. It adds nothing to discussion.
Because he's an established starting pitcher with upside on a team that needs established starting pitching with upside in order to be competitive, and I don't see how they aren't better off with him in the mix than without.
Of course they are better off with him than without him. I guess you and I have very different definitions of ‘consequential’ and ‘competitive’ for a team that won 78 games last year. He replaces 198 innings of combined 4.00 FIP ball from Chris Sale and James Paxton last year. I’m glad they replaced those innings with someone at least. I think they were always planning to?
That doesn’t include trades obviously since the Yankees have added Soto and Verdugo.
You‘re not inferring. You are stating definitively that he could have been signed by the Red Sox and that he could have been signed for a lower AAV than the deal that he just agreed to with the Dodgers. You can be disappointed in a transaction and critical of management without non-factual conjecture.
More context from Chris on the Hernández pursuit. He makes it sound like they didn’t want to spend the money for both Giolito and Hernandez. Very disappointing.
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1744202959355855006?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1744202959355855006?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
You make a good point. I guess my definition of him as consequential assumes that they make another addition that pushes him further down the rotation, where he would be consequential not by headlining the staff but by providing much needed stability that takes some strain off the bullpen. I think we may have been talking past each other there a little bit.
That's a great point. And where were the other serious multi-year offers? If they're not there, I may have jumped the gun with my surprise at the 2/28 number. It's Cotillo's opinion that that's not a serious consideration, sure, but I'd need to see what else Teoscar had on the table to really make that judgement.
Yeah, this all makes sense to me. They offered 2/$28m, which is about what I would’ve wanted to offer him. He wanted 4/$80m, which is nuts. There were a bunch of agent leaks and a long stare down, as Boston declined to bid against themselves. And then Teo decided to take less money on a shorter deal, hope for a monster season hitting in a stacked lineup, and hit FA again.
It’s also possible that the Sox offer from a few weeks ago was no longer there (which Cotillo kind of suggests), and that Teoscar had to take the LAD one now or risk losing that too.
As frustrating as the Sox offseason has been, there’s not many teams spending.
As frustrating as the Sox offseason has been, there’s not many teams spending.
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