Not for matching up with the Padres they do not. They are deep, deep in positional depth and upside. The Padres needed good, young, cost-controlled pitching, though.
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I sure hope not. The Sox were top 5 in OPS and runs scored in the AL last year. That is with the atrocious offense from 2B (.662 OPS) and SS (.635). The offense will be fine and they already have a LF with poor defensive skills on the roster.
They need starting pitching and better defense. I think the FO understands this and will move forward accordingly.
As for Soto to NYY, he is going to be great. And, if I had to pick a way for the Yankees to acquire a superstar, a big trade for a one year deal bringing back a poor defensive player and average, at best, baserunner, would be my preferred approach since it at least carries some potential downside and a great hitter without other skills is limited in overall impact (just look at Soto's excellent year on the Padres last season). The deal makes sense for the Yankees since Cole and Judge are entering the plateau-to-decline phase of their careers and I think the Yankees just got much better for next season. If the Yankees acquire an impact starter, I think they could be the presumed favorite in the AL East next year. As for the rest of the division, Baltimore needs pitching to remain competitive (and it is unclear if they are going to spend for it), Tampa is going to take a step back, and Toronto consistently underperforms (and is going to have to make some hard decisions with regard to their young players).
If I take an optimistic approach, none of the trades/signings thus far were players that I thought would be a good fit for the Sox. And those moves pushed competitors to spend cash and prospects. So there is a viable path to contending next year. But, Breslow and crew are going to have to thread the needle.
So, I continue to hope for a trade/extension for Corbin Burnes, sign another FA pitcher, and then try to acquire a couple of these right handed batters: Brandon Drury, Mitch Garver, Chas McCormick, Spencer Steer, Tommy Edman...
Yep. Unfortunately the Red Sox decade long drought of being unable to develop pitchers bit them in the ass again.
Because they weren't able to match the raft of pitchers the Yankees gave up for one year of a guy who they could sign next winter simply with a boatload of money?
Is there any chance Gurriel could still play 2B? Seems doubtful, but he came up as a 2B/SS and played there for the Jays in 2018-19. Had some throwing issues from 2B as a 24/25 year-old rookie that were described at the time as mental lapses/yips.
Either way I don’t think they’re done with Yoshida in LF, at least part-time. There are too many RH hitters that make sense to bring aboard to split time at DH (Turner, Hoskins, Garver, Soler, McCutchen, Sánchez, Cron, Cooper…)
Either way I don’t think they’re done with Yoshida in LF, at least part-time. There are too many RH hitters that make sense to bring aboard to split time at DH (Turner, Hoskins, Garver, Soler, McCutchen, Sánchez, Cron, Cooper…)
I don't necessarily agree with the bolded. I think that there could be very significant upgrades on the positional side of things, which I believe are more achievable than starting pitching. Everyone talks about pitching, pitching, pitching, and for good reason, but baseball is about winning games in a multitude of ways, and I think it would be a disaster if they didn't attempt to make serious positional upgrades after the losses of Turner, Verdugo, and Duval.
The most obvious is getting a strong defensive second baseman with right handed power. I'm not sure what it takes to get Brandon Drury but they need to be extremely aggressive there. That would add the same amount of wins to your roster as say signing Seth Lugo or Marcus Stroman.
Someone asked why our seemingly better farm system wasn't able to and Nip answered. I was simply agreeing and stating that even if we wanted to we couldn't have matched up because we haven't been able to develop pitchers for many years across multiple GMs and POBOs. It also is the reason we're currently spilling barrelfuls of internet ink about every FA pitcher on the market. Not sure why you're white knighting for the team here, the pitching development has been abysmal for years.
That would be one hell of a gamble. Can’t see it, especially the way they’ve talked up defense. But yes, it does leave the question of how Yoshida and Gurriel would fit together.
If they have a line and won't go over it, it's a charade? As far as I can tell, nobody expected the final number to start with a 3.
If they don’t get Yamamoto or aren’t at least a serious player in it, it tells me the owner doesn’t give a shit about winning anymore. This is the unicorn you go all out for in order to get him.
Ha, ok then maybe I shouldn’t be so definitive as perhaps guess I’m alone on this island
Too much money and too little pitching and no limit on contract length (until MLB owners eventually save themselves like the NBA ones did) means we’re heading to 300 and beyond.
Edit - just to respond directly to your question though, basically yes. I think this number is 300+ and I think they think this too, so participating without intent to get to that level would to me be more playing a role. Of course you participate on some level, maybe it turns out YY had a Manny pillow case, but you aren’t swimming in the deep end.
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I don't disagree, but if the Sox were really serious they could have pulled a Theo and executed a 3 or 4 team trade in order to acquire the pitching pieces that San Diego wanted. Given what he cost New York, it wouldn't have been prohibitive, but I still wouldn't have done it for 1 year of Soto in a rebuilding season.
Soto becoming a free agent, and the Sox then offering him more than the Yankees seems….unlikely.
And we ain't talking about a Cherington 3/39 special.
This is where you tell the player we will beat any offer you get.
Given that they have nothing behind Cole and moved a bunch of pitching, why wouldn’t the Yankees be telling him the same thing?
Reminds me when Dan Duquette had to get Manny, no matter what. I think this is a similar situation. If they get him at $350 million, nobody is going to complain about an overpay.
Gurriel and Maldonado seems depressing to me. Is this another year of dumpster diving. Getting near time for a statment move
If it turns out he has trouble with MLB hitters they will. I'm all aboard the YY train, but keep in mind he has pitched 0 MLB innings. There are limits, especially while there are other options on the board.
They will. But my point is that the Sox have to pony up here. If he ultimately chooses someone else for reasons we can’t control, so be it.
Promising?
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1732782281989763481?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Sox were in on E-Rod but preferred to wait on YY and Imanaga.
View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1732782281989763481?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Sox were in on E-Rod but preferred to wait on YY and Imanaga.
I think it is.
Is there a chance that they sign both YY and Imanaga? I believe Imanaga is going to get around 4/80 or 4/90?
It's weird that Eduardo would sign before those guys. You'd think he'd be more in demand for all the teams that didn't get Yamamoto or Montgomery.
A couple ways to look at it, depends on if one wants to be excited or fearful, I guess.
I'd say "promising" in regards to Imanaga but I don't think it means anything for YY. Imanaga to me belongs in that Sonny Gray, Stroman, grouping of guys that are pretty reasonable bets to be a #3 and would look really good in a rotation of SP, Bello, "Imanaga", SP4, Crawford, 12 starts from Sale.
If that is the highest caliber of SP acquired, then the Sox kind of need 3 versions of Imanaga if they want to be contenders for all 3 wild cards (ie something like Bello, Stroman, Imanaga, Lugo, Crawford). Even then I think you're missing the playoffs as I would vastly prefer Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Kikuchi and hoping to fix Manoah over Bello, Stroman, Imanaga, Lugo, Crawford and hoping to keep Sale healthy) but it's a heck of a lot better than we've had in 2022 or 2023, so it'd be an improvment.
It could also be seen as "discouraging" if they've offered Imanaga 4/$80m (exactly what Rodriguez got) and he hasn't taken it.
At this point, I think it's just "realistic":
ERod isn't someone you'd break the bank on and even when you had 4 of him in 2015 (Miley, Porcello, ERod, Buchholz along with two "prospects" in Joe Kelly and Henry Owens) AND a top 4 offense AND a dominant closer (Koji) and the team still sucked.
So there is no real reason to spend on him this early and trying desperately to acquire makes sense.
I'd say "promising" in regards to Imanaga but I don't think it means anything for YY. Imanaga to me belongs in that Sonny Gray, Stroman, grouping of guys that are pretty reasonable bets to be a #3 and would look really good in a rotation of SP, Bello, "Imanaga", SP4, Crawford, 12 starts from Sale.
If that is the highest caliber of SP acquired, then the Sox kind of need 3 versions of Imanaga if they want to be contenders for all 3 wild cards (ie something like Bello, Stroman, Imanaga, Lugo, Crawford). Even then I think you're missing the playoffs as I would vastly prefer Gausman, Berrios, Bassitt, Kikuchi and hoping to fix Manoah over Bello, Stroman, Imanaga, Lugo, Crawford and hoping to keep Sale healthy) but it's a heck of a lot better than we've had in 2022 or 2023, so it'd be an improvment.
It could also be seen as "discouraging" if they've offered Imanaga 4/$80m (exactly what Rodriguez got) and he hasn't taken it.
At this point, I think it's just "realistic":
ERod isn't someone you'd break the bank on and even when you had 4 of him in 2015 (Miley, Porcello, ERod, Buchholz along with two "prospects" in Joe Kelly and Henry Owens) AND a top 4 offense AND a dominant closer (Koji) and the team still sucked.
So there is no real reason to spend on him this early and trying desperately to acquire makes sense.
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Agree but sometimes guys take a bird in the hand. Eovaldi got burned a bit last year.
To me it means they were confident enough in their chances with other guys that they didn't mind seeing an option they liked fall of the board.
I added in a "realistic" option also since the world doesn't have to be so heavily weighted toward an extreme, which is the camp I fall in.
Honestly, I don't think it means much of anything. There are lots of guys out there like Rodriguez who can be penciled in to start around 25 games and be pretty decent in those 25 games, but you need to have a plan for the month and a half or two months he's going to miss.
But as I mentioned in the edit, even if you have a rotation of 4 ERods with "prospects" like Joe Kelly and Henry Owens, and a top 4 offense, and a dominant closer, you're probably still going to miss the playoffs (unless you're in the AL Central, which the Red Sox obviously aren't).
Honestly, I don't think it means much of anything. There are lots of guys out there like Rodriguez who can be penciled in to start around 25 games and be pretty decent in those 25 games, but you need to have a plan for the month and a half or two months he's going to miss.
But as I mentioned in the edit, even if you have a rotation of 4 ERods with "prospects" like Joe Kelly and Henry Owens, and a top 4 offense, and a dominant closer, you're probably still going to miss the playoffs (unless you're in the AL Central, which the Red Sox obviously aren't).
I'm a tad concerned on that bit of Rodriguez news - as I would like to think that getting one of Yamamoto/Imanaga wouldn't exclude the Sox from pursuing the other... or Montgomery, or whoever else they would target (Snell, for instance). But I was not really clamoring for us to sign Rodriguez either.
Maybe their mindset is they only need one of the FA starters, and they feel confident they can make a trade for an impact starter. I just hope we don't see Montgomery go for something like 6/$140, then hear through Twitter that "the Red Sox were interested in Montgomery, but wanted to see what Yamamoto does first" - when they can clearly afford to sign both.
Maybe their mindset is they only need one of the FA starters, and they feel confident they can make a trade for an impact starter. I just hope we don't see Montgomery go for something like 6/$140, then hear through Twitter that "the Red Sox were interested in Montgomery, but wanted to see what Yamamoto does first" - when they can clearly afford to sign both.
But can't you look at it as they think they might be getting both Imanaga and Yamamoto? That they are confident in their position to sign both and therefore didn't want to commit early to ERod?
Exactly.You must be new here.
If the Sox land Yamamoto, the reception will be overwhelmingly positive of course. But there will be some "eggs in one basket" and "Boston valued him way more than anyone else, so we'll see I guess".
If they don't land him, God help us all.
He is the perfect litmus test on whether the penny pinching of the last couple of years was a seismic shift in ownership spending philosophy or not.
Just to add - I wonder if the plan is to sign Yamamoto, who is really young, to a long term contract, and then trade prospects for a young pitcher with years of control ... some names that have been mentioned...
Dylan Cease is 27 and under control for 2024 and 2025.
Logan Gilbert is 26 and under control for 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027.
Tyler Glasnow is 30 and only signed through 2024.
Shane Bieber is 28 and under control for 2024 and 2025.
Corbin Burnes is 29 and only under control for 2024.
Dylan Cease is 27 and under control for 2024 and 2025.
Logan Gilbert is 26 and under control for 2024, 2025, 2026, and 2027.
Tyler Glasnow is 30 and only signed through 2024.
Shane Bieber is 28 and under control for 2024 and 2025.
Corbin Burnes is 29 and only under control for 2024.
Yeah, it’s early and all. However, I’m one of those that thinks they absolutely scapegoated Chaim. I’ve been banging that drum from the onset when they canned him. He rebuilt this farm and wasn’t given the chance to make a big deal. And now, they seem hell bent on using the farm for pitchers who I’m not really high on. They seem, at least so far, hesitant to use money, they seem hesitant to be aggressive and show intent. Erod played here before and that contract is absolutely something they should have had no issues in swinging.
They’re waiting for the Yamamoto shoe to drop and I get that, but like last season if they wait too long - they risk making panic moves in a pool of players that we as fans shouldn’t be resigning ourselves with being ok with. We’re in a division that is a meat grinder and I don’t have expectations of them making a deep run, but I want to see a plan. Recent history shows that they’re a bit hesitant to make a big money move. And I don’t think it was Chaim, it was the people that cut the checks.
And let’s be honest here, the pitching staff performed way above their heads last season and I view that as an outlier in itself. I do not expect the same this season. You can get away with savvy low risk, high reward players that take the field everyday, you can do that with role players.
What you don’t do is apply that mindset when it comes to starting pitching. There are big names out there that only require money, have the pedigree that are fits here and have showed they can perform on the big stage.
It would be utter, organizational negligence if they waited this out to a point where they’ve put themselves in a corner:
They’re waiting for the Yamamoto shoe to drop and I get that, but like last season if they wait too long - they risk making panic moves in a pool of players that we as fans shouldn’t be resigning ourselves with being ok with. We’re in a division that is a meat grinder and I don’t have expectations of them making a deep run, but I want to see a plan. Recent history shows that they’re a bit hesitant to make a big money move. And I don’t think it was Chaim, it was the people that cut the checks.
And let’s be honest here, the pitching staff performed way above their heads last season and I view that as an outlier in itself. I do not expect the same this season. You can get away with savvy low risk, high reward players that take the field everyday, you can do that with role players.
What you don’t do is apply that mindset when it comes to starting pitching. There are big names out there that only require money, have the pedigree that are fits here and have showed they can perform on the big stage.
It would be utter, organizational negligence if they waited this out to a point where they’ve put themselves in a corner:
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What do we learn if he signs elsewhere and we find out that the Red Sox offered exactly the same contract?
Which kinda adds to my point, no? Spending a bunch of prospect capital for a year of a guy who the Yankees (or someone else) might outbid the Sox for next winter isn't necessarily prudent either, especially when Soto doesn't really address the biggest immediate needs of the team (pitching and improved defense).
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be upset if the Red Sox had pulled the trigger on a trade for him, but that they didn't and may not have even been a serious bidder for him neither surprises or disappoints me in the least. I don't like that he went to the Yankees. I don't think the Sox could or should have done more to prevent it.
If that happens, I’ll be perfectly fine. The Sox offer had better be extremely competitive though. Completely unacceptable if it’s not. Basically like a college football team that wants to play with the big boys. If you do, it’s time to pony up for NIL money.
If the bidding gets astronomical like 10/350 or something, I’m fine walking away and/or pivoting.
Obviously quite a risk and one that may very well blow up in their faces (and we saw yesterday what reactions the Soto trade got) if YY and Imanaga signs elsewhere, but you'd have to hope that they're in quite advanced discussions with both of them if that report is correct.
A series of expletives involving the name John Henry and a madlib with the words "cheap", "Liverpool", "absentee", etc. If we don't get Yamamoto, the Sox internet will blow up with vitriol for one man imo.
I doubt the Sox or someone else already offered Shota Imanaga 4/$80M. He maybe ultimately gets close to that, but I imagine if he was actually offered the E-Rod deal things would be moving very quickly now. Kodai Senga was a better and more projectible pitcher coming out of NPB at the same age last season and got 5/$75M.
That part is funny (bolded). I mean, whenever you sign a free agent, it's virtually always because you were the highest bidder, which means you "value him more than anyone else".
And really the question is "how much is too much?"
If we offer 8/$232, and the Mets offer 9/$270... then fine... offer 10/$300. If Cohen comes back with 10/$320, offer 10/$330. We have plenty of payroll space right now, with more coming in 2025 (Sale, Jansen, others) - and a bunch of cheap, talented players here, or coming soon (Casas, Keel, Mayer, Yorke, Rafaela, Duran, Anthony, Abreu). The risk is that Yamamoto comes here and sucks/gets injured. But the organization is in a position right now where even a $35M/yr dead contract won't necessarily hamper us from being competitive in future seasons.
Word. And that's not a knock on anyone in particular, lest it be interpreted as such like with Yoshida's signing. That was the story with Matsuzaka and I'd say Manny too. If you don't get the guy, you're cheap. If you do, wtf is the matter with you for paying so much.
In general, I think that showing that we're back at the grown-ups table in this offseason will go a long way. Showing that we've identified "pitching" as the biggest need and are spending to address it, well that's priceless PR. Signing Montgomery and trading for the 2023 equivalent of Wade Miley is absolutely not going to cut it.
All true. I just wanted to account for all possibilities.
I suppose at a certain level when we already know what ERod is at the MLB level (pretty good, going to miss 2 months 3 out of 4 years for one reason or another, fine as a 3/4 though, but if he's higher than that you're capped at losing in the LCS in 6 games or less) I do prefer the "unknown" of Imanaga. Because I'm relatively certain he can be a fine 3/4 starter but I think there is more upside with him than ERod, and ERod gets hurt so frequently - and has been somewhere between "meh" and terrible in the playoffs whenever he's pitched in them - that I don't think the downside is all that much more consequential.
As in if ERod is your 2, for the next 3 to 4 years, you're not winning anything. In Arizona where it's pretty clearly Gallen as SP1, Kelly is SP2 and ERod is expected to be at most SP3 (and more like SP4 because Pfaadt is much better pitching prospect than anyone in the Boston organization and it's not close), he's absolutely fine.
To be clear, if Boston had something like SP1, Bello, anyone close Brandon Pfaadt and Kutter Crawford / 12 starts from Sale, signing ERod to that exact deal would have made a ton of sense. Unfortunately they're missing two major components.
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And Senga showed immediately that his deal is a pretty significant underpay. Imanaga is not quite as good, but he's going to benefit from a market correction and probably get more than Senga.
A couple of thoughts on this...Eduardo dealt with some family issues that caused him to miss a considerable chunk of the 2022 season. He might see this as the best option for him and his family and chose to accept it rather than give Arizona an opportunity to move on from the offer. I'm also wondering if there might be a certain level of comfort in playing for Torey Lovullo who was on the Sox coaching staff during Rodriguez's first two seasons with Boston.
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