Thus far, they have also pocketed the 10 million they saved on Sale also. Pretty sure this is only about money.
Offseason rumors
- Thread starter opes
- Start date
- Status
Not only did they save 9mm in AAV but the trade resulted in filling a position of need with a league minimum player.
Which, in a vacuum, is awesome.
Much less awesome if the money is allocated to nothing but the bottom line.
If they're trading some of the set-ups and closers, they have to count on one of Winchowski, Houck and Whitlock to be back in the pen. A tough balance with starters and relievers.
I’ve never seen a fire sale during Spring Training. What a messed up off season.
Not so thinly described really. Also if the "industry sources" are right and Montgomery is unlikely to go to Boston on a short deal because he wants to win, this offseason looks pretty bad. Going into the offseason the biggest need was starting pitching - which in theory should be the easiest to solve. They added Giolito (and if he is any good he is gone after 1 year), dealt Sale and did not resign Paxton. So they are back where they were in '22 in some ways (hoping Whitlock and Houck deliver) and given the lack of starting pitching on the farm, they really have no plan at all. The '25 rotation at this point is Bello/Crawford/Houck, since Pivetta is a free agent at the end of this year.
Incredibly they have also made no attempt to extend Pivetta - which borders on sheer incompetence.
What the hell are they thinking?
I like some of the moves here - the Sale trade and the Giolito signing. But they let cheaper starters go early (eg Lugo) and as an organization are trapped. It's at this point a significant failure - and it does not bode well for the future either. The only path to contending for a series win is to speculate on some future pitching acquisition, which is hard to credit given their failure in this offseason.
Last edited:
Agree that Montgomery would be unlikely to come to Boston on a "short deal" because he'd want a better chance to win. But what's a short deal - 2 years? I doubt his market collapses that much - I still think it's likely he gets 4-5 years guaranteed. I suppose that Montgomery and Boras could decide they'd rather take a two year deal with a higher AAV, but if I were them I'd take the 4-5 years guaranteed and push for an opt-out after 3. That kind of deal should be out there, and I see no reason why the Sox shouldn't be in on that, and that the short-term concerns about their ability to compete shouldn't be a major factor.
Close - two of them.
Starting Rotation as of today:
1 Giolito
2 Bello
3 Pivetta
4 Crawford
5 one of Houck, Whitlock or Winckowski.
Bullpen, max of 8.
1 Jansen
2 Martin
3 Justin Slaten (Rule 5)
4 Bryan Mata
leaving 4 spots for:
5 one of Houck*, Whitlock* or Winckowski.*
6 one of Houck*, Whitlock* or Winckowski.*
7 Isaiah Campbell* (traded from SEA)
8 Schreiber*
9 Bernardino (LHP)*
They have Murphy (LHP), Walter, Leutge (LHP), Criswell, Weisart, Kelly, and German.
If they clear Jansen and Martin and Schreiber, they can go for a prospect, or a cost-controlled ML ready pitcher, or OF and end up with a bullpen of:
Houck/Whitlock/Campbell/Bernardino/Slaten/Mata/Murphy/Kelly.
Recall that a few weeks ago one of our members relayed the anecdote that FSG had no intention of selling. Now its possible that the employee who shared that info has bad color or maybe FSG is being really close to the vest about their intentions for a variety of reasons.
That said, if you want to auction off an asset, clearing the books is definitely a form of staging.
Tin foil hat time: maybe Theo was brought in to consult on selling the Sox.
True, but sometimes the best you can do is put on a shit-eating grin, start looking for other positions, and try to succeed anyway until the offers come in.
Not so much the sale itself but to consult baseball ops on how to handle the roster and payroll.
Not likely, but offering up your 3 best relievers the first week of spring training is an eye opener.
It is the only position of depth on the team. If they could use it to supplement other areas it would make sense.
Obviously, it hasn’t happened yet because there hasn’t been a match.
I do think that overall they are looking to sell anything and everything to boost 2025 and beyond.
Something has to pay for all of the real estate development that they’re doing around the ballpark. Construction costs have skyrocketed over the last couple of years. I have no doubt that’s where the extra money is going.
Unless he’s planning on putting the group together that eventually buys the team, I highly doubt it.
I don't see any reporting that they're "offering up" anyone. Just reports that they're willing to listen on particular players. That is a significant distinction to me.
That doesn't say he's anxious to move players to free up salary or give up on this season. It says he's open to improving the roster by any means, including dealing from a position of veteran depth if the price is right.
I think the new discourse if based on the report they are unwilling to eat any of his salary.
Which implies it would be nothing more than a dump and given the current payroll is 35mm under the tax, they appear completely out on Snell and Montgomery, it’s a depressing proposition.
That still doesn't suggest they're actively trying to move these guys, which is my point. It more reads like Breslow has a price in mind to part with any of these players (and the price for Jansen includes taking his whole salary) and if a team really wants one of them, they'll have to meet it. Otherwise he's content to keep them. Which arguably holds for every player in the organization and thus isn't really news.
The news is that they are listening to offers on their three best relievers (arguably) while also failing to supplement the roster via free agency. It’s just another data point of a bizarre off season.
You aren’t wrong. But it is fair to throw this in the pile of information on what has been the strangest off-season I can recall in decades.
I guess it's technically information, but I don't think it's all that strange. If a GM wasn't "listening" to offers on players, especially ones at a position of depth, he wouldn't be doing his job. I think it's only rising to our attention because of the dearth of other news and activity, which doesn't really make it any more significant.
Kenley Jansen is UFA after this season, and makes $13M. No reason for the Sox to retain any salary in a trade to a team that is looking for a top shelf reliever. If another team wants Jansen, they can certainly pay the freight.
You wanna share any reports from other teams trying to make the playoffs in 2024 who have their best bullpen arms on the market?
Of course they should be listening but for these reports to come out unless there have been multiple “these guys are available” conversations.
It again, is just more data displaying an unserious 2024. That shouldn’t be a surprise btw. Breslow literally said we aren’t in a position to trade future wins for current wins. And it seems like he actually believes the inverse to be true. We should be trading current wins for future.
He might be right. But that’s where we are at.
Last edited:
I do think they should be willing to pay most of his salary if it gets them a good prospect back (especially one near MLB ready). But I also see no reason to read that report in a way that rules that out, instead of "they are reluctant to pay any salary for the returns they have been offered." Not that i have any direct knowledge of course.
I’m sure if someone was offering a prospect that they absolutely loved, they would deal him and eat money. But absent that kind of return, they’re better off holding on to him until the deadline since they’ll have already paid him at that point and the prices will be higher.
"Listening" on players is not the same as those players being "on the market" and that's been my only point here. If the report was that Breslow was offering Jansen, Martin, and Schreiber around the league, that'd be "on the market." I think we (and I include the media) are getting desperate for anything to happen and are latching on to whatever we can find to make it feel like activity.
I think it’s pretty well established that they’re in a rebuilding year. Probably year 1 of a multi year rebuild considering that they just had to fire their GM and bring in a new guy.
I’m sure they will be looking to move any veterans for prospects but feel that the offers on those guys will be better at the deadline.
Small quibble -- Jansen is making 16 million.
Either way, the reason for the Sox to retain salary is simple -- they would get a better return. It's a way to leverage their supposed financial advantage while taking on zero long term risk.
If the Sox trade Jansen for a small return with the other team picking up all the $$, and there's no corresponding move to bring the payroll back up, it's the surest sign so far that there is in fact a mandate to keep salary low, far lower than we realized. I want to believe this won't happen.
If the Red Sox payroll does end up well below the first tax threshold, it's going to be interesting to hear how Kennedy justifies it.
Yeah, the money vs return is pretty much how these things work. Especially these past few years where teams seem more willing to buy prospects.
Below is one thing. One can argue that once they missed on YY, they changed course and decided to see what the kids could do. Dumping Jansen for the sole purpose of being further below is another matter.
I think it’s pretty simple, they need ROI for their investors. It’s pretty hard for Kennedy to walk into that room next November and say “I know you guys were expecting x% profit growth this year, but we signed a bunch of guys that we thought would really help us, sure we still finished last, but we tried!”
They’re like any other big business in this country right now. Shareholders not only expect profit but massive profit growth year over year.
Kennedy has a fiduciary obligation to the shareholders, not the fans. So unless or until Breslow can build a good young team where there is profit potential, it’s going to be difficult for Kennedy to justify huge expenditures. Hell, I’m sure the construction of the development that they’re building around the ballpark is considered the same pot as far as Redbird and the other partners are concerned. That’s probably eating into what they’re allowed to spend as well.
Agreed. And there are maybe three players in the entire organization right now that the team shouldn't be "listening" on. And none of those players are on expiring contracts.
I don't think it's quite that simple, because the fans, the paying customers, are in fact a large part of the profit equation for obvious reasons.
Technically, I’m pretty sure every GM ‘’listens” on everything. I believe the fact that it’s out there we are ‘listening’ on all the back of the pen, and on Masa, and all OFs, etc is not business as usual.
Schreiber isn't a free agent until 2027, so the appearance of his name with the other two is curious.
Right. And of course, the report is that they're "listening" according to another team's executive.
Pretty cool that any agent or rival GM dealing with the Red Sox FO can now call up Masslive knowing that they'll unhesitatingly publish an anonymously sourced news item about the team being cheap.
Dude. Jansen being out there as a trade possibility has been reported by far more than Masslive. Ken Rosenthal has reported it multiple times.
This obsession to not view Masslive as legitimate because the reporting isn’t favorable needs to be recalibrated.
Yes, of course, the fact that he's a trade candidate has been widely reported.
But only Masslive is building headlines about the team being "reluctant to pay any of his salary" according to one anonymous exec from a rival team.
Which, rather than some form of heinous disinformation, might be true.
On another topic, thinking of the Soler deal…would we rather have Soler or Masa as is now?
They both seemed destined for DH and have little else to contribute…any preference?
This is where I am too. Every GM will listen on players. Very few are untouchable. It all depends on the package being offered.
I also agree with those who are saying that the Sox will probably eat some of salary for Jansen if the return is good enough.
Might be true in one particular case with one particular trade scenario according to only one of the parties involved, maybe. Is that news now?
Masslive are on the outrage beat. If the thrust of a story is that the Red Sox are being cheap or dysfunctional, they have written it, no matter how thinly sourced or speculative.
The Red Sox had no problem eating $17 million of Chris Sale's salary in a trade. Did Masslive bother to use that for context in their story about Jansen? Of course not.
Last edited:
While I agree with this, the actual reality of our current situation is an outrage beat. Masslive is mostly just capitalizing on the outrageous state that we're in.
"How much of our closer's salary should we eat" is not a conversation for a team that is "full throttle" or even pretending to contend in 2024. Masslive isn't having that conversation here, we are...in this thread. It should be provoking outrage.
Willing to listen on players is relatively unique for a team to be doing in mid February, no? Of course- there could be a plan to do something with freed up salary given what players are still available. On the other hand, it’s still unclear as to why the team needs to free up money, given how far they are under thresholds we thought were important. Maybe it’s to save it all in a high yield savings account to lure Juan Soto next offseason.
- Status