On the Lighter Side...Playing "It's a Wonderful Life" with the Ending of SB XLIX

Would you change the ending to SB XLIX to take a Butler Pick Six, 35-24 Ending (subject to all of th

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 27.0%
  • No

    Votes: 27 73.0%

  • Total voters
    37

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
There are lots of important and real Patriots topics right now.  How they handle the rest of free agency, the upcoming draft, the results of the bullshit DeflateGate controversy, how the NFL handles the Jets' tampering and possible extensions for guys like Hightower, are among the many issues to be considered.
 
Here's one not serious topic.  Given the 6 month gap between now and when games start counting again, I think there's some room for a little mirth along the way.
 
Would you change the ending of Super Bowl XLIX if you could waive a magic wand?  Let's assume that, unlike the movie "It's a Wonderul Life," there are no adverse, unintended consequences of changing the ending.  
 
Now I know that some or maybe most will say "of course not, it was perfect, no-brainer, etc."  I get it. Fair.  To each his own.  And truth be told, I probably end up there myself.  Someone wrote on SoSH that it was like going from Aaron Boone to the 0-3 Comeback in one second rather than 12 months, and that's of course true.  Swapping that out for anything is tough stuff.
 
But just for the hell of it, let's consider the question and the following hypothetical choices, and pros and cons.
 
Here goes:
 
1. Alternative Ending: Butler picks off Wilson on the play that was the Kearse Tyree Catch.  Instead of going deep, Wilson throws a pass to the outside that Bulter takes to the house, making the score 35-24, and effectively ending the game.  Assume, further, that Seattle does not somehow find a way to win the game in the remaining time and the game ends at 35-24.  [Edit: to be clear, I am positing that the Pick 6 happens on the very same play that the Kearse Tyree Catch occurred.  But instead of Wilson thowing down to the 5 and Kearse catching the ball with his Tyree, Wilson throws a 10 yard laser to the sideline, and Butler steps in front of it and takes it to the house.  Pandemonium ensues.  No Tebucky like flag.  Game effectively over.  Gatordade everywhere].
 
Pros:
 
- Emphatic, dominant statement to end the game.
 
- We get an extended sportsgasm as the clock winds down, with full on celebration along the sideline.
 
- Eliminates entirely the silly "Seattle Lost the Game, NE Didn't Win it" argument that some opposing fans and mediots like to spout.
 
Cons:
 
- Deprives us of the unbelievable, once in a lifetime Butler ending, and going from a less than 1% win probability to a virtual walk off SB win.
 
- Deprives us of seeing Poodle Pete get skewered by anyone and everyone (unless, of course, you like Poodle Pete)
 
2. The Butler Ending
 
The pros and cons are essentially the inverse.
 
A few things. 
 
This occurs to me because (a) I'm warped and (b) living in the NY area, I probably hear the Seattle Lost canard more than those in NE.  Not that the argument resonates with me in any way.  It is what it is, the Pats got the Lombardi and we all know that the last two SBs could easily have gone the other way.  But the mantra did make me consider whether I would have preferred an ending that did not involve an arguably bad decision by the opposing coach. 
 
So there you have it.  
 
Thoughts welcomed.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
Or this: Seattle punches it in with Lynch on that run from the five, and the Pats get the ball back down 31-28 with less than a minute left.

Brady rips down the field and, as the clock expires, hits Amendola or LaFell in the end zone for a 35-31 victory.

THAT would have been beyond incredible.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Agreed that it would have been beyond incredible, but I'd rather keep the question binary to emphasize the distinciton between an ending squarely involving Pete's decision and one that doesn't.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
BB allows the Seahawks to walk it in for a TD. Pete figures Lynch is unstoppable and goes for 2. Lynch is stopped.

On ensuing possession, somebody makes a Tyree like catch with 5 seconds left. Ghost hits a 55 yard FG for the win.

BB then lets Ghost walk in FA.
 

Oppo

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
1,576
Penalty called on the Butler play.
Pats fans go up after Pats score, down after the circus catch, up after the pick, and down crashing after the penalty.
Pete gets a do over and gives the ball to Lynch.
Lynch fumbles the game away, recovered by Wilfork.
 

B H Kim

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 24, 2003
5,736
Washington, DC
Pete decides to kick a field goal on 1st and goal and go for the onside kick.  Lynch refuses to leave the field and Seattle is penalized for having 12 men on the field.  By then the Seahawks assistant coaches have hog tied Pete and they wisely decide not to try the field goal.  On first and goal from the 10, Wilson's pass is picked off by Butler and the Pats win.  But all anyone ever talks about, for the rest of recorded time, is how Carroll went insane and gave the game to the Pats.  Or, maybe, like any rational Pats fan, I'm thrilled with how the game ended and I cannot conceive of wishing for anything different.
 

bernardsamuel

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2006
197
Denver, only physically
Theo, thanks for this unique thread.  All I would have changed would be for the MVP voting to take place in a time frame such that Malcolm would have won the award rather than have it "gifted" to him.  I would have liked to hear the speech of someone needing to pause to cry for joy every few moments.  While I so appreciate Tom being prepared for everything, at times it can be an OK change of pace to see someone who'd be totally astonished when called upon extemporaneously (I'm projecting here, of course, as I'd go blubbering on until I found the correct words with which I should have started).
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,851
where I was last at
The problem with the proposed alternative ending is that the second guessing is still there, "just give the ball to Lynch and let him run it in". does not go away with a Butler pick-6.
 
Living in metro NYC I hear the "Carroll's dumbest call of all time" and that Seattle pissed away the game bullshit all the time, the Pats were lucky etc.
 
I just say your argument is "wide right". 
 
The only more intense ending is as proposed by Ivanvamp, with maybe Sherman slipping in coverage and getting beat for the winning TD.
The problem is I never would have seen it, as my heart would have given out  just seconds before.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
B H Kim said:
Pete decides to kick a field goal on 1st and goal and go for the onside kick.  Lynch refuses to leave the field and Seattle is penalized for having 12 men on the field.  By then the Seahawks assistant coaches have hog tied Pete and they wisely decide not to try the field goal.  On first and goal from the 10, Wilson's pass is picked off by Butler and the Pats win.  But all anyone ever talks about, for the rest of recorded time, is how Carroll went insane and gave the game to the Pats.  Or, maybe, like any rational Pats fan, I'm thrilled with how the game ended and I cannot conceive of wishing for anything different.
Those two things don't have to follow each other.
 
A rational Pats fan can be thrilled at how that game ended AND still imagine and even prefer and ending that did not involve even a discussion of a gift from Pete Carroll in the mix.
 
I love love love the ending.  A framed photo of Butler catching the ball with the inscription GW Pick and Butler autograph is already in my TV room, and it hangs in the best spot in the room (where a shot of Damon's Granny used to be).  In my view, it is indeed the biggest single moment in Boston sports (a question posed elsewhere on SoSH), and I don't thnink that's recency bias speaking.
 
At the same time, however, I can imagine preferring an ending that is less tied to a coaching decision by the opponent.  Why exactly is that irrational?  Or ungrateful?  Or anything else?  I mean, I totally get preferring the existing ending, but in a land where you could choose the outcome, why is it irrational to choose something different?
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
15,135
UWS, NYC
Oppo said:
Penalty called on the Butler play.
Pats fans go up after Pats score, down after the circus catch, up after the pick, and down crashing after the penalty.
Pete gets a do over and gives the ball to Lynch.
Lynch fumbles the game away, recovered by Wilfork.
For me, this is close, but not quite there because there's still a Seattle fuckup involved.

I like Lynch runs twice and gets stuffed both times.

Edit: the second stuff is a great tackle by Revis, who wrenches his ACL/MCL saving the day!
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
bankshot1 said:
The problem with the proposed alternative ending is that the second guessing is still there, "just give the ball to Lynch and let him run it in". does not go away with a Butler pick-6.
 
Living in metro NYC I hear the "Carroll's dumbest call of all time" and that Seattle pissed away the game bullshit all the time, the Pats were lucky etc.
 
I just say your argument is "wide right". 
 
The only more intense ending is as proposed by Ivanvamp, with maybe Sherman slipping in coverage and getting beat for the winning TD.
The problem is I never would have seen it, as my heart would have given out  just seconds before.
I don't follow that.  If the Pats go up 35-24 on a Butler Pick 6, hwo does the Lynch second guessing get off the ground?
 

B H Kim

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 24, 2003
5,736
Washington, DC
TheoShmeo said:
At the same time, however, I can imagine preferring an ending that is less tied to a coaching decision by the opponent.  Why exactly is that irrational?  Or ungrateful?  Or anything else?  I mean, I totally get preferring the existing ending, but in a land where you could choose the outcome, why is it irrational to choose something different?
I guess what I really meant is that it wouldn't ever occur to me to ask the question. The alternate universe scenarios in my head are all bad ones, where the Seahawks win.

(and I have that same Butler-autographed picture hanging in my office)
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,593
Great thread. I sense some of us don't grasp the not altogether nuanced distinction you're making. I too live in NYC and actually love the fact that some non-Pats fans are bothered by how we won it. It makes them incredibly frustrated. They were sooooo close to going triplicate on our agony. Ha ha, we win.
 

Dollar

Member
SoSH Member
May 5, 2006
11,196
I guess I could have also gotten behind a Willie McGinest-esque goal line stand, in which Butler barely misses an INT on second down, then stops Lynch in the flat on third down, and finally does a Bruschi leap over the line on fourth down to win the game.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,851
where I was last at
TheoShmeo said:
I don't follow that.  If the Pats go up 35-24 on a Butler Pick 6, hwo does the Lynch second guessing get off the ground?
Here's your scenario Pats are leading 28-24 Wilson throws from the 1, Butler intercepts and returns for a TD, Pats win 35-24.
 
However, if Wilson had handed off to Lynch rather than throw the pick-6, Lynch scores, Seattle takes the lead 31-28, and probably wins. The second guess on the play-call is still there. It doesn't go away on the pick-6.
 
edit: just re-read your alt ending again. I assumed you had the pick-6 come from the 1 and not on the Kearse/Tyree2 nightmare. My bad.
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
bankshot1 said:
Here's your scenario Pats are leading 28-24 Wilson throws from the 1, Butler intercepts and returns for a TD, Pats win 35-24.
 
However, if Wilson had handed off to Lynch rather than throw the pick-6, Lynch scores, Seattle takes the lead 31-28, and probably wins. The second guess on the play-call is still there. It doesn't go away on the pick-6.
Then I have not made myself clear.
 
In my alternative scenario, the pick 6 happens INSTEAD of the Kearse pass to the 5.  On that play, Bevill calls a pass to the sidline about 10 yards out, and Butler picks it off and scores.  Seattle is never on the 5 yard line and there is no situation in which fans and commentators can debate whether to run or not.  I will edit above to make that clearer.
 
I'm trying to distinguish between an ending that (a) involved a coaching error/assist from Seattle and (b) did not involve such a decision (regardless of whether you think it was indeed an error) in any way.
 

ifmanis5

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2007
64,095
Rotten Apple
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
Great thread. I sense some of us don't grasp the not altogether nuanced distinction you're making. I too live in NYC and actually love the fact that some non-Pats fans are bothered by how we won it. It makes them incredibly frustrated. They were sooooo close to going triplicate on our agony. Ha ha, we win.
Yup, although pretty much the entire country feels this way, not just NYC.
 
They also conveniently leave out the circus catch part that never in a million years happens that put them in the position to score in the first place.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,802
Hingham, MA
Yeah I would take the alternate ending. Doesn't even have to be a pick 6 - just give me an incomplete on the Kearse play and a couple more stops and I'd be happy not hearing about Carroll's call.

And speaking of the Tebucky return, I would have loved to experience that alternate reality of enjoying the shit out of a 24-3 lead with 10 minutes left or whatever it was. Those 10 minutes were fucking agony when they happened.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,734
No way. Is greatness that is not widely recognized not still greatness?
 
To give up the greatness is to give up the Belichick experience. Here's how I lay it out for the haters:
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Look, 99.9% of the football viewing world--heck, maybe more--but 99.9% of them knew--knew!!--that Carroll & Co. were going to run there. Belichick & Co. not only knew they were going to pass, they knew what play the Seahawks were running.
 
That's something.
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Anyone may feel free to use that. :) I was offline basically the whole day after the game and was surprised to see the burgeoning mantra of the Patriots didn't win it, the Seahawks blew it. But this is not new terrain, but just another chapter in people not being able to understand how the Patriots have had so much success.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
59,473
San Andreas Fault
I'll be the party pooper. This is like scoring with whoever is the hottest woman on earth and then debating how it could have been better. That game was a 10. 
 

TheoShmeo

Skrub's sympathy case
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
12,890
Boston, NY
Al Zarilla said:
I'll be the party pooper. This is like scoring with whoever is the hottest woman on earth and then debating how it could have been better. That game was a 10. 
No problem, Al.  If I had six months before I could possibly have the next score, I'd probably ask that question too.
 
No matter, I like hypotheticals, even when I am totally content. 
 
This is a close call for me but my answer is also no.  In the end, I would not give up the split second turnaround and, like Mugsy, get a lot of pleasure from the Carroll Decision/Butler Pick so pissing off Mike Francessa types.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,593
I actually love this game and you can tell because I will now quote the cue card scene from Love Actually: "To me...you are perfect."

I am thrilled by the heartbreak followed by the rush. I am thrilled by Malcolm, Go! And by Brady's ten year old kid jump for joy - as well as his more, shall we say, "adult" post-game celebration when he saw Butler. "Malcolm - are you fucking KIDDING me?! Way to go. Hey - you did it." I love BB urging on the D, one last time this season, to Do. Your. Job. And I love the fact that even in the face of The Kearse catch, the coaches on the sideline continued to capably do theirs. Given all that came with the game - #4, deflate gate, the "Let's face it - the patriots aren't GOOD anymore!" - Super Bowl XLIX is as good as it gets.

I love every second of how that game played out. I love you, Super Bowl XLIX - just the wayyyy you are...

Still - great thread.

Edit because I keep screwing up.
 

Ralphwiggum

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2012
9,837
Needham, MA
Love the thread. But to me the ending was perfect. My new favorite thing to do on a Friday night after a few too many beers is to watch the Butler play over and over again. I wish I could rewind to the feeling of complete joy I had in that moment, I'm not sure I've ever felt that way before. To me it is the greatest single sports moment in Boston sports history. There is no ending I'd rather have.

I have personally not been confronted with anyone claiming Seattle lost more than the Pats won but if and when that happens I'll just laugh. Haters gonna hate and so forth.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,631
Somewhere
Nope. Wouldn't change it at all. Living through the nailbiters is the worst, but if your team emerges victorious, there's nothing like it.
 
It's like comparing the 2004 ALCS to the 2004 WS.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
28,019
Saskatoon Canada
 I voted for the pick six, but reading this has changed my mind.
 
There is really small chance to make the actual game better.
 
Maybe if the pats were devastated by injuries and Brady had to play D and he picked it off, that would have been better.
 
Or if video emerged of Belicek telling Josh McD, "Get Tom to draw them offside after Malcolm intercepts this."