Pacquiao vs. Mayweather 5/2: Better late than never!

[theapportioner]

Hard to say. Mayweather v Pacquiao is the type of event that would ordinarily draw in the casual viewer who doesn't usually watch boxing. It's probably too late now, but if a boycott movement had started a month ago and generated a ton of media attention, I think it could have had a significant effect. Especially since you have to pay to watch, whereas the Super Bowl is free (and thus the barriers to watching the latter are slight).

 

[WayBackVazquez]

In light of Jon Jones getting his title stripped by the UFC for the hit and run charge, it's interesting that Mayweather got to keep his titles even after being sentenced for domestic violence. He even got to fight Cotto before serving that sentence in 2012. 
 
Edit: I think if Mayweather were charged today instead of in 2011, calls for stripping his titles, cancelling his Showtime contract, etc. would be much louder. A lot has changed since the Ray Rice saga began.

 
Boxing is not the UFC, and it's certainly not the NFL. Floyd Mayweather is bigger than the WBC, WBO and WBA combined in a way that no fighter is bigger than the UFC. And he's not part of a team, doesn't represent a city and is not part of a mutibillion dollar organization. There's a reason he's worth nine figures without any endorsements.
 
I mean, Mike Tyson served three years in prison for rape, and he set a PPV record in his first fight back. 

 

[theapportioner]

I know boxing, perhaps more than any other sport, is about the individual fighter, but still. There are organizations that could take a stand if they wanted to or were sufficiently pressured into doing so. MGM Grand, Showtime, and yes the major boxing organizations. Tom Brady and other athletes and celebrities could decide to not attend his matches. 
 
As for your point about Tyson, I mean, he served his time so whatever happened afterwards is different. The time to have acted would have been when Floyd was charged, indicted, arrested, etc.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I'm not so sure the time to act--I assume you mean break contracts*--is when someone gets arrested, but not convicted. Which alleged crimes are good enough to break contracts over prior to a trial and conviction by a jury of one's peers? Does it have to be a felony, or are misdemeanors good enough? Did you want them to strip Floyd of his titles when he pleaded out? How do you think that would have played out for the organizations longterm when he did his six months or whatever it was?
 
And "taking a stand" would be absurdly hypocritical for any of the organizations you mention to do. I mean, if you were to "take a stand" against domestic violence by boxers, you would wipe out pretty much the entire sport minus Marciano (490, not Rocky). Shit, neither Jim Lampley nor Max Kellerman would even get to announce.
 
Companies take action when they think things may hurt their bottom lines. Floyd is easy money for them, he's not their employee, and until those PPV sales drop, they're not doing a thing.
 
*I am fairly confident there is no morals clause in any agreement Mayweather has with the WBA, WBC, or WBO. I would bet there's not one in his Showtime deal either, because if Showtime had insisted upon one, he would have extended his deal with HBO, or just set up his own PPV deal. He doesn't need them.

 

[ElUno20]

WayBack is spot on.

I think it's hard for the casual fans to grasp but there is a massive gap between the up and comers, contenders and the select stars (floyd and manny) in boxing. On the lower level, yes the organizations wield some power over guys due to bumps in pay for titles and network fights, etc. But for Floyd and Manny it is completely reversed. The sanctioning bodies bend over backwards for them because they generate revenue the rest of the fighters couldn't combined.

Also, all those belts (wbc, wbo, ibf, etc) dont mean shit. So if push comes to shove, most promoters and fighters would literally tell the bodies to shove those belts up their asses if they tried to hold up a payday. It'd be nothing to get a lesser organization, like the nabo, to release some bullshit rankings and sanction a fight

 

[WayBackVazquez]

Also, all those belts (wbc, wbo, ibf, etc) dont mean shit. So if push comes to shove, most promoters and fighters would literally tell the bodies to shove those belts up their asses if they tried to hold up a payday. It'd be nothing to get a lesser organization, like the nabo, to release some bullshit rankings and sanction a fight

 
Yes.

 

[theapportioner]

I understand the practicalities and conflicts of interest involved here, but I also disagree with the idea that a superstar boxer is "too big" -- if such a boxer committed an even more heinous crime like murder, organizations would certainly be backing away.
 
As for "breaking contracts" or whatever, UFC acted when Jones was charged. The Patriots acted when Aaron Hernandez was arrested. Not an unusual thing.
 
Sure, boxing, like other sports have taken a blind eye to certain crimes but this need not continue going forward.
 
If anything, this discussion is mainly about how much we as a society weigh repeated acts of domestic violence, relative to other crimes or transgressions.

 

[ElUno20]

I agree with you but it's a tough road for an organization to go down since boxing is not centrally organized.

Ultimately, the pushback would have to come from the public spending their money. Period. Ill give you a great example, colin spent most of his monday show talking about how disgusting of a person floyd is, deservedly so, yet...he's still going to fight and is in vegas all week on live remote. Saying and doing are two separate things

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I understand the practicalities and conflicts of interest involved here, but I also disagree with the idea that a superstar boxer is "too big" -- if such a boxer committed an even more heinous crime like murder, organizations would certainly be backing away.
 
As for "breaking contracts" or whatever, UFC acted when Jones was charged. The Patriots acted when Aaron Hernandez was arrested. Not an unusual thing.
 

 
You keep conflating Boxing with organizations like the UFC and the NFL. Jon Jones is an employee of the UFC. They pay him by the fight. Aaron Hernandez was an employee of the NEP and subject to collective bargaining and other agreements with the NFL. While employee agreements can be terminated at-will in many cases or based on predetermined occurences under a contract (like a morals clause), Floyd Mayweather does not operate as an employee of the WBC, the MGM Grand, or Showtime.
 
Let me put it this way: If I have a sales contract with you to sell you 10 million widgets at $10/widget, do you think you can just walk away from that contract if I get charged for murder?

 

[WayBackVazquez]

I agree with you but it's a tough road for an organization to go down since boxing is not centrally organized.

Ultimately, the pushback would have to come from the public spending their money. Period.

 
And that is really all there is to it. Floyd is the product, unlike the UFC where the UFC is the product. 
 
Which makes it really simple to identify who to boycott. But nobody really wants to boycott.

 

[theapportioner]

 
You keep conflating Boxing with organizations like the UFC and the NFL. Jon Jones is an employee of the UFC. They pay him by the fight. Aaron Hernandez was an employee of the NEP and subject to collective bargaining and other agreements with the NFL. While employee agreements can be terminated at-will in many cases or based on predetermined occurences under a contract (like a morals clause), Floyd Mayweather does not operate as an employee of the WBC, the MGM Grand, or Showtime.
 
Let me put it this way: If I have a sales contract with you to sell you 10 million widgets at $10/widget, do you think you can just walk away from that contract if I get charged for murder?

 
Okay, so then let's think about the relationship with Showtime and MGM Grand as being more like "endorsements" than employers. Showtime could (in theory) still nullify whatever relationship they have with Floyd. Whether there is a behavior clause or something is not really my issue here; it's whether there ought to be one, and whether they ought to act on it if the clause (assuming it exists) is violated.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

 
Okay, so then let's think about the relationship with Showtime and MGM Grand as being more like "endorsements" than employers. Showtime could (in theory) still nullify whatever relationship they have with Floyd. Whether there is a behavior clause or something is not really my issue here; it's whether there ought to be one, and whether they ought to act on it if the clause (assuming it exists) is violated.

 
The MGM is essentially a recipient of a gift from Mayweather. He can hold his fights literally all over the world and make more money form the gate in many of those places. And he doesn't need Showtime, either. Why should we think of Showtime and MGM as endorsements when that's not what they are. Don't you get that? There is a reason Floyd doesn't have endorsement contracts. He doesn't want to have endorsements because he doesn't want to have to be a good boy for them, and companies don't want him to endorse because they don't want to be associated with him. It's an understanding. 
 
But you're saying there should be a morals clause in his Showtime contract? Does that go for all contracts? Like, from now on, when I sign up for cell phone service, should there be a clause that says if I'm charged (not convicted) with a crime (or just domestic violence) they should be able to terminate? Or is it just for boxers?
 
The point is, you can't stop him from boxing. He will find an arena, and he will find distribution on PPV. If people want to boycott, the target is really not hard to find.

 

[theapportioner]

You're being too literalist here. Showtime has an exclusive agreement with Mayweather (contract, or whatever). He can't go and have his fights broadcast by HBO or any other network without Showtime's consent. If he violates it in this fashion, it would be grounds for Showtime to cancel or recoup damages for going to another network. Furthermore, the Showtime brand is publicly associated with, and benefits from Mayweather even if it's not technically an "endorsement". Same with MGM Grand. Showtime could easily say that we will honor this agreement as long as you stay out of trouble. If Mayweather committed acts of terrorism against infants, wouldn't you think Showtime would want to get as far away from him as possible?
 
Furthermore, as for having "morals clauses", I have no idea why you think I would extend this argument to all contracts of any form whatsoever.
 
The boxing organizations can strip a boxer of his or her title if he/she refuses to fight a mandatory challenger, for instance. It's not like they have no power to enforce anything whatsoever, either.
 
Yes of course MGM grand and other places don't want to give up their huge money pots. But societal pressure could change that calculus. Again, I'm saying that it ultimately comes down to what we (society, and by extension individuals and organizations) ought to do, and how we ought to weigh Mayweather's criminal actions against other types of transgressions. 

 

[WayBackVazquez]

You're being too literalist here. Showtime has an exclusive agreement with Mayweather (contract, or whatever). He can't go and have his fights broadcast by HBO or any other network without Showtime's consent. If he violates it in this fashion, it would be grounds for Showtime to cancel or recoup damages from going to another network. Furthermore, the Showtime brand is publicly associated with, and benefits from Mayweather even if it's not technically an "endorsement". Same with MGM Grand. Showtime could easily say that we will honor this agreement as long as you stay out of trouble. If Mayweather committed acts of terrorism against infants, wouldn't you think Showtime would want to get as far away from him as possible?

 
I feel like I'm talking in circles here, so I'm not going to continue beyond these examples, and hope you get the difference:
 
In 2012, the Patriots are going to give Aaron Hernandez a contract extension. They put in front of him a contract that says: "Patriots agree to pay you [fuckton] of money. You agree to play TE for the Patriots. You agree not to commit any crimes or engage in behavior that causes harm to the image or reputation of the Patriots or the NFL. Should you engage in such behavior, the Patriots may terminate the contract without penalty." Kraft says, "Take it or leave it." What does Aaron do? He takes it; because every other team will have the same clause.
 
In 2013, Floyd Mayweather goes to Showtime and presents a contract that says: "I agree to permit you to broadcast my next 5 fights. You agree to broadcast all of my fights for [a fuckton of] money. This contract may not be terminated except for a violation of these express terms. Specifically, your failure to perform under this contract for any other reason, including my being charged with any crime, including, but not limited to, domestic violence, rape, murder, and treason, shall be a material breach of this contract, and entitle me to liquidated damages in the amount of $100 million per fight you fail to broadcast." He then says to Les Moonves, "take it or leave it." What does Les do? He takes it; because if he doesn't someone else does.
 
THIS IS NOT THE NFL.

 

[PseuFighter]

zero interest in pulling the trigger here, but there are tickets on ticketmaster at face right now. i'm pulling in the (gasp) $3,703 level right now.
 

 

[theapportioner]

This is ludicrous. Floyd can't go to Showtime and say "here's a contract, give me a billion dollars. In return, I agree to fight at least one fight from now until age 95". Because no network is that stupid. So boxing deals work more like a free market. Same with endorsements in any sport. There is leverage, and he has a lot of it, but there are also limits. Holding a boxer contractually accountable if he/she commits a serious criminal act can be added to any contract if the organization feels that the potential brand damage is bigger than the fight payday. It's all about expected value versus insurance from losses.
 
Unless others want to chime in, I'm done with this too.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Yes, theapportioner, those networks could do that.  They could also broadcast a monkey flinging poo on their stations all day long, at least until the FCC shut them down.  But the reality is, they do accept and have accepted terms, in the case of Mayweather and with most other prominent boxers, that do not contain outs of that fashion.  Mayweather has an obligation to fight, Showtime has an obligation to air it and pay him, and very few other obligations are material.
 
As WBV makes clear, there are no other parties here where protesting them would implicitly be protesting Mayweather's existence, as grotesque and incomprehensible as it may be to you.  The only solution, if protest is your goal, is to protest Mayweather himself, not watch his fights, convince other people to not watch his fights, and maybe picket or something.
 
Those disgusted by him for his past moral conduct have already gotten a fairly big win: tons of coverage in the media going over his domestic violence stuff.  He's definitely the heel in this fight, PR-wise.  But that's as far as it will go.

 

[ElUno20]

The boxing organizations can strip a boxer of his or her title if he/she refuses to fight a mandatory challenger, for instance. It's not like they have no power to enforce anything whatsoever, either.
 

You could call stripping titles enforcement but, again, belts dont mean anything in the sport. Fighters routinely get stripped of belts because their mandatory doesn't suit their financial and career interests. And these are fighters, in comparison to floyd, who are wayyyyyyy at the bottom of the totem pole of the sport. I mean do you know how many mandatory fights floyd and manny have both not had to fight over the years?

The way to make a statement is to not buy his PPVs. Period. No other way around it. We're trying to dream up scenarios in which someone else can step in and play the moral police but it comes down to the individual and his/her wallet.

 

[Marciano490]

So, where's the best place to watch in NYC?

 

[theapportioner]

The way to make a statement is to not buy his PPVs. Period. No other way around it. We're trying to dream up scenarios in which someone else can step in and play the moral police but it comes down to the individual and his/her wallet.

 
You guys aren't thinking creatively enough. People could cancel Showtime, boycott MGM Grand in favor of other casinos, and so on. There are plenty of ways to exert consumer influence on the corporations associated with him.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

So, where's the best place to watch in NYC?

 
After peer pressuring me into attending the fight in person and then bailing out, I think you should find Kilgore and watch it with him as penance.
 
 

They run the Derby every year. This is the biggest fight in 30 years. Leave your hat at home, don't bother flying cross country, and watch history in person and the horsies race from the sports book.

 

 

[ElUno20]

Well im not speaking for myself because I'm not interested in a boycott or participating in one. The other ways you listed would also work but, again, its up to people who say they care to actually follow through

 

[theapportioner]

Hey I'll probably watch the fight too :hypocrisy

 

[Marciano490]

 
 
After peer pressuring me into attending the fight in person and then bailing out, I think you should find Kilgore and watch it with him as penance.
 
 
 

 
I know.  I have like 3 really good reasons why though.

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

I had no idea that Floyd Mayweather once lost a boxing match (shows you how much I follow it), but the guy who beat him has had a pretty rough life, probably typical of those who wash out of a boxing career.

 

[WayBackVazquez]

As expected, hotel rates are dropping.
 

Demand has declined since and Doleshal said there have been a significant amount of cancellations, as some people who planned trips to Las Vegas bowed out before the 48- to 72-hour window for penalties.
There are other events this weekend -- the Kentucky Derby, also on May 2, and playoffs in the National Basketball Association and National Hockey League. The Cinco de Mayo holiday is three days after the fight and Doleshal said the expectation is that 150,000 to 200,000 visitors will be in the city this weekend. As a comparison, Las Vegas usually draws 250,000 to 300,000 for New Year’s celebrations.
“They expected to have the whole city sell out, but it’s not really turning out that way,” Doleshal said.
 

 
MLife now has rates near normal weekend rates for most properties:
 

 

[Turrable]

So, where's the best place to watch in NYC?

 
I'm streaming it on firstrow in my dorm. We have chairs and everything.

 

[SumnerH]

An individual boycotting watching the match is an extreme position? Or even a group that gets people to rally around the cause? It won't make much of a difference at this point but it seems very reasonable to me.

I'm not a big boxing fan but I was getting pretty psyched for this fight and thinking about hosting a PPV party. This has taken most of the wind out of my sails; I definitely won't be hosting a party now and might not watch the fight at all.

Certainly it's not going to dissuade big fight fans, but it does shift things a little around the edges.

 

[Red PR]

I'm in Mexico City and seems the fight here will be open viewing for all. With 2 channels carrying the fight. Odd a fight of this magnitude gets free viewing in such a big country.

 

[SumnerH]

I'm in Mexico City and seems the fight here will be open viewing for all. With 2 channels carrying the fight. Odd a fight of this magnitude gets free viewing in such a big country.

Getting back to free viewing is the only hope boxing has to become mainstream again, IMO.

It's weird because unlike team sports any given boxer has no incentive to do that; they'll cash out more from ppv than from free fights, as they slowly kill the sport. As they should; if you're giving as much as boxers are, you should absolutely cash out as much as you can. They're doing nothing wrong.

But until they find a way to structure things so that boxers have an incentive to promote the long term interest of the sport, things will be bleak.

 

[ElUno20]

Kellerman's report from the fighter meetings on his show yesterday was that floyd seems content and is building in excuses because he thinks he'll lose. Also added he got the vibe floyd is scared of manny and was forced into this fight

 

[Vegas Sox Fan]

FWIW, I had a dream last night that Pacquiao won on split decision. That's enough for me to go waste some money. 

 

[soxhop411]

SportsGrid ‏@SportsGrid  8m8 minutes ago
If you live in Mexico, you'll watch Mayweather-Pacquiao for free. In Spain, PPV costs $13.23. $100 in U.S.: http://sportsgrid.com/awemy 

 

[Marciano490]

 
I'm streaming it on firstrow in my dorm. We have chairs and everything.

Got two extras? I'll bring the natty ice.

 

[Turrable]

Got two extras? I'll bring the natty ice.

 
Does this mean you aren't #UpForWhatever?

 

[Marciano490]

Anyone in Vegas, my stepbrother has ten tix he's trying to sell. Starting at around 2500.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

Looks like ticket brokers are taking a bath on this one.  That's a shame.
 
http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/02/mayweather-vs-pacquiao-fire-sale-on-tix-investors-losing-big/
 
 

 

[ElUno20]

Fight day is finally here. Floyds demeanor and reports from his fighter meetings have me leaning towards manny. The pressure on floyd to win is enormous and i think it has gotten to him.

Manny seems so loose and carefree. I think that's the perfect attitude and disposition for tonight

 

[canderson]

Mayweather's camp has banned Michelle Beadle and Rachel Nichols from the MGM Grand for reporting on Mayweather's domestic abuse history.

 

[JBill]

Mayweather's camp has banned Michelle Beadle and Rachel Nichols from the MGM Grand for reporting on Mayweather's domestic abuse history.

Coward.

 

[Marciano490]

Coward.

At least he didn't punch them or pull a gun in front of their kids. Progress!

 

[PseuFighter]

someone should quickly get a kickstarter up to generate whatever funds are necessary to get them both front row ringside seats just so they can be in the front row on basically every tv shot during the fight.

 

[Marciano490]

someone should quickly get a kickstarter up to generate whatever funds are necessary to get them both front row ringside seats just so they can be in the front row on basically every tv shot during the fight.

There's probably better things to raise a half a million dollars for. Like homophobic Midwestern bakeries.

 

[PseuFighter]

yeah yeah...

has espn acknowledged it on air? it's turning into a kinda big story.

 

[Erik Hanson's Hook]

 
I'm streaming it on firstrow in my dorm. We have chairs and everything.

 
I'm also in a dorm. Dumb question, but is firstrow free?

 

[ElUno20]

I wonder if Michelle Beadle ever grilled Jim Lampley before taking the job to work with him on his show?

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Where's a legit site (if any) to place a small bet on the fight?

 

[ElUno20]

Where's a legit site (if any) to place a small bet on the fight?

www.fbi.gov

 

[theapportioner]

someone should quickly get a kickstarter up to generate whatever funds are necessary to get them both front row ringside seats just so they can be in the front row on basically every tv shot during the fight.

How about tix for his prosecutors and judges too? Also Gloria Allred and the boxer who beat him in the Olympics way back when.

 

[canderson]

Will there be live bogs or anyone posting live here?