Papelbon Done for the Season

[Leather]

When Harper came up he was supposed to be the next best thing from God. His first 3 seasons (age aside) were OK....got hurt a bunch, low .800s OPS, but nothing like he was touted (like I said, age aside...) So, people who had the impression of him being the best baseball player ever, and had a preconceived notion that he was a dick, essentially had the attitude of "who the hell are you?" 
 
This year he blew up to the best, or 2nd best, player in baseball.....at 22

 
He's not the first all-world kid to have that stigma on him and have to deal with it.  Back in the late '80s, Gregg Jefferies faced a similarly hostile environment.  
 
I think the phenomenon has far more to do with the team underperforming, and people looking around for someone to blame.  Veterans are going to stick together, and it's easy to throw the "sure thing" kid who maybe can't handle the pressure right away under the bus under the cowardly guise of "Maybe he needs to focus more" or some bullshit.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

 
You don't think a player should be pissed off because his idiot teammate did something stupid which will result in him getting a 95 MPH fastball to the back? When it had nothing to do with him?
 
This is 2015. People are becoming more aware that this type of bullshit is bad for baseball.

I think Harper can be pissed off about if he wants. And if he's pissed off about it, he should address it privately rather than call his teammate "tired" in print the next day. You seem to be very willing to dismiss this as critical to this story.  Papelbon's teammate talked shit about him in the paper to start this whole thing.  And so then Papelbon got pissed off about it and escalated the situation that Harper started.  Had Harper addressed this shit in the clubhouse away from the press then this thread doesn't likely exist.

 

[YTF]

Adding to what SJH said, what if said 95 MPH fastball hits Harper in the head or face? After all, Papelbon did come in high and tight on the first pitch before hitting Machado with a pitch that was just about head high before Machado straightened up and turned away. What if the Orioles have a guy in the bullpen that takes the whole "eye for an eye" thing more literally than some? I have no issues with what Harper said.

 

[JimD]

The dugout altercation wouldn't have happened if Matt Williams hadn't completely lost his clubhouse.  He should have gotten the two of them together after Harper's comments to the press and aired things out.  Instead, he lets this crap fester and finally blow up in full public view, then feigns ignorance after the fact.  Why he hasn't been fired by now is a complete mystery.  Natstown!

 

[jon abbey]

 
You, Papelbon, have a 98 mph heater that you paint like Picasso and a split that drops like Scott Walker's poll numbers.  
 

 
Sorry, just to go back to this for a second: 

Papelbon hasn't thrown a pitch over 95 since 2013, this is not the BOS Paps. It looks like he generally sits 92-93 these days:

http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=5975&position=P&pitch=FA

 

[glennhoffmania]

What if we all agree that Harper could've handled the Machado aftermath better than he did, even though it's arguable that he did nothing wrong? 
 
So you've got a closer that joins the team only after demanding to be the closer, thereby replacing Storen who was pretty damn good until that point.  He has a history of being an ass and he displays his douchiness by drilling Machado.  He's also hardly been lights out since he joined the team.  And less than two months after the trade he feels that it's his place to call out the team's best player and the likely MVP in front of the whole world on television before grabbing and choking him.
 
Why the hell are we focusing on whether Harper's comment was appropriate or not?

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

And really, why did Pap hit Machado? Because he had the audacity to hit a dinger and look at it?
 
I love baseball. I really do think it's the perfect game and one of the best ways to spend time. As much as I love the Pats, Celts and Bruins, I would be okay if all three teams left Boston as long as the Red Sox stayed put. 
 
That being said. This whole macho, unwritten rules, rookies-gotta-earn-their-strips, crap is all bullshit and it really dumbs down a great game. Machado hit a dinger and watched it, a great player literally does this thing maybe 40 times a year, it's okay if you admire it a bit before you start your obligatory trot around the bases. If the pitcher doesn't like it, work harder next time. Make a better pitch. Don't hit a batter for that guy doing something correct. 
 
It all goes back to Papelbon not being able to handle a guy hitting a homerun. And that's why he's in Mississippi telling his hill billy buddies about "learning' these kids the right way" instead of playing ball. 

 

[Leather]

Joe Posnanski has a great summary of the whole event, and raises the same points people here do.
 

Should Harper have publicly called out a teammate like that? Maybe not. But Harper is part of a new generation, one that doesn’t believe you should throw baseballs at people’s head in order to teach them unspoken rules. My daughter just read me this short story, Shirley Jackson’s “The Lottery,” about a town where everyone gets together once a year, has a lottery and — not to ruin the ending for you — stones the “winner.” Some of the people in the town tentatively ask, “Um, is this really a good idea?” and “You know, some towns have stopped doing this lottery.” But an old guy grumps that the kids today just don’t get tradition. Papelbon is that guy.
 

 

[Sprowl]

What crossed the line? To me, grabbing your teammate by the throat is a different level of transgression than being quoted in the press as critical of a teammate, or jawing at him after a routine flyball.
 
Williams is a lumpen manager, Harper is somewhat immature (par for the course at 22), and Papelbon is an egomaniacal blowhard and bully with no excuse for any of his actions. I'm just glad he is not our problem anymore, 2007 notwithstanding.

 

[soxhop411]

Jesus
 
 
 

 

[mauf]

If Papelbon was a second baseman instead of a relief pitcher, the Nats would probably find a way to smooth things over between him and Harper. At a minimum, they would leave open the possibility and try to broker a reconciliation, instead of sending Paps home and immediately pulling his jerseys out of the gift shop.
 
Goes to show that when the chips are down, baseball folks understand that even an elite RP (which Paps was prior to the trade) is only worth so much.

 

[soxhop411]

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

That's a sizzling hot take. 
 
"I don't know the guy, but he needs a chokin'!"

 

[Leather]

Ya he really plies on the Tough Guy Cred.

 

[Flunky]

"Bruce Harper", eh?
 
I bet that story was written on a typewriter and electronically transcribed by that new little girl in the office - the one with the nice ass. Kelly?

 

[mauidano]

Whew, this Front Office and team is incredibly dysfunctional.  They pulled Paps jersey from the souvenir store!  
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2573431-nationals-take-jonathan-papelbon-jerseys-out-of-store-after-bryce-harper-dustup
 
They need help and Allard Baird is the man for the job.

 

[keninten]

Note to Papelbon, C.J. Nitkowski, and other keepers of the "Unwritten Rules of Baseball":  How about remembering the most important rule of baseball, written or unwritten?: 
 
Don't Suck. 
 
Enough about "playing the game the right way".  Jesus Christ, there are 300 million fucking people who would love the chance to play the game the right way - but they all suck.  You, Papelbon, have a 98 mph heater that you paint like Picasso and a split that drops like Scott Walker's poll numbers.  You are getting paid $13M, and were contractually given the Closer's position, and then you sucked.
 
So instead of focusing inward on just how badly you sucked in the month of September, you instead go after All-Stars like Manny Machado and Bryce Harper, who are playing the game magnificently.  They play the game the right way:  they do not suck.
 
Just how bad does Papelbon suck?  The average hitter he faced in September 2015 hit him to an OPS (.867) like the careers of David Wright, Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Howard, and Jose Bautista.  Slugged him (.510) like the career of Troy Tulowitzki, Nelson Cruz, Josh Hamilton, and Chris Davis.
 
Deflect, deflect, deflect.  Not surprised of the keeper of the Unwritten Rules - C.J. Nitkowski.  Former #9 draft pick overall, career 5.37 ERA, traded 4 times, released 8 times.  The only thing consistent about him was his complete, perennial suckitude.  What a fucking bum!!!
 
Oh by the way, the fans in DC who actually see Bryce Harper play on a daily basis are overwhelmingly behind him.  Mostly, they think he plays TOO hard, he takes extra bases, runs into walls, plays his ass off.

I thought it was a Rembrant

 

[mauf]

Whew, this Front Office and team is incredibly dysfunctional.  They pulled Paps jersey from the souvenir store!  
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2573431-nationals-take-jonathan-papelbon-jerseys-out-of-store-after-bryce-harper-dustup
 
They need help and Allard Baird is the man for the job.

 
Obviously, a lot of dysfunction brought us to this point, but I don't think this is dysfunctional at all. Mike Rizzo shouldn't have traded for Papelbon, but at least he acknowledges his mistake and is cutting his losses. Everyone knew this was likely anyway, so it's not like Rizzo totally screwed himself in terms of negotiating leverage this winter.
 
Rizzo's willingness to act so decisively with Paps suggests he'll fire Matt Williams once the season is over. I think that's the right decision too.

 

[grimshaw]

On a side note - that team has 7 Scott Boras clients.
I can only imagine how difficult a team that is to manage with him always around.

 

[lexrageorge]

Let's list who's at fault here:
 
Machado:  Actually, he's not at fault.  If you don't like seeing guys taking their time rounding the bases, then don't serve them meatballs over the plate.  
 
Harper:  OK, he probably should have kept his comments in house, or confronted Papelbon directly after the pitcher hit Machado.  He's going to make those mistakes, however, especially as he's been the annointed savior from day one.  If the Nats fans want him playing half his games in Fenway, I'll certainly accept his foibles.  
 
Papelbon:  His act as a goofy, Gronk-like relief pitcher when he was in Boston was fun.  Noone could have any real problem with his desire to get the best FA contract for a reliever when he first became eligible for free agency.  But now that he's gone from doing that to becoming self-appointed policeman for the unwritten rules of the game, he's nothing more than an ass, and deserves to be treated as one.  Honestly, I don't see why some folks are actually defending him. 
 
Matt Williams:  Should be fired.  He had multiple opportunities to defuse the situation before it happens, and his excuse that he didn't notice it was really lame.  The one thing a baseball manager needs to do is to control the clubhouse.   A manager that cannot do that should not be a manager.  

 

[phrenile]

Fun fact: Papelbon's never had a single plate appearance in his career so not only has he never had to run out a pop fly; the only guys with a chance to throw at his head are the fielders standing behind him.

 

[Fishy1]

Fun fact: Papelbon's never had a single plate appearance in his career so not only has he never had to run out a pop fly; the only guys with a chance to throw at his head are the fielders standing behind him.

 
Right on. Harper has a whole bunch of reasons to not give a shit and go to the media with it: forget the fact that their season is over, and Papelbon probably isn't long for his National's uniform. More importantly: throwing at people's heads is fucking dangerous. In my book, the more players who publicly condemn the behavior of hyper-aggressive manchildren like Papelbon, the better.

 

[Marciano490]

 
Right on. Harper has a whole bunch of reasons to not give a shit and go to the media with it: forget the fact that their season is over, and Papelbon probably isn't long for his National's uniform. More importantly: throwing at people's heads is fucking dangerous. In my book, the more players who publicly condemn the behavior of hyper-aggressive manchildren like Papelbon, the better.

 
I really don't get the disconnect between everyone being encouraged to discuss the dangers of concussions in football and the reluctance to condemn publicly head hunting in baseball.  Sometimes head injuries are more or less unavoidable in football.  There's never a reason to throw a 90 mph ball at someone's head.  It's idiotic and anyone who speaks out against it is a-ok in my book.

 

[twibnotes]

Williams is a lumpen manager, Harper is somewhat immature (par for the course at 22), and Papelbon is an egomaniacal blowhard and bully with no excuse for any of his actions. I'm just glad he is not our problem anymore, 2007 notwithstanding.

No argument that Papelbon deserves all the blame relative to the incident, but I think there is more to Harper's so-so reputation than just his immaturity or jealousy from others. Seems to be a lot of smoke, and it's not like you hear stuff about Trout.

Not trying to demonize a great young player, but one wonders if his attitude is a bitch to be around.

 

[soxhop411]

 
 
Judging the Royals is an inside look at big league baseball; it not only deals with how the game is played, it also reveals some of the game’s unwritten rules. In today’s column I said that if Jonathan Papelbon wanted to choke Bryce Harper, he should have done it in private. Ballplayers have scuffles and arguments more often than fans know, but those scuffles and arguments are supposed to take place out of the public eye. Whether fans like it or not, baseball players throw at each other, do takeout slides on each other and sometimes fight with each other. When they do those things, there’s a right way to do it and that’s what today’s column was about.
Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/public-editor/article36973230.html#storylink=cpy

http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/public-editor/article36973230.html
 
Jesus

 

[nighthob]

Isn't this generally what every wunderkind goes through when they arrive in the big time? Like in every sport? I don't recall many vets having good things to say about LeBron, or Dwight Howard when they arrived in the NBA. Vets just don't like the kids for whom the game comes too easily.

 

[Marciano490]

Trout?

 

[jcd0805]

If the Nats fans want him playing half his games in Fenway, I'll certainly accept his foibles.

Nats fans are universally on Harper's side, not sure why you seem to think they're down on him. Pap on the other hand, almost no Nationals fan that I know was too psyched about that move.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

No argument that Papelbon deserves all the blame relative to the incident, but I think there is more to Harper's so-so reputation than just his immaturity or jealousy from others. Seems to be a lot of smoke, and it's not like you hear stuff about Trout.

Not trying to demonize a great young player, but one wonders if his attitude is a bitch to be around.

These things tend to feed on themselves and people are slow to change their opinions, if they will change them at all. When Harper first started with pro ball, he had an attitude problem and was immature. Of course, was also a teenager so that's not exactly shocking.

Add those things together and you have a steep uphill battle for Harper with the average fan and I'm not sure there's a good argument to be made that he should care enough about what the average fan thinks to fight it.

 

[JimD]

Isn't this generally what every wunderkind goes through when they arrive in the big time? Like in every sport? I don't recall many vets having good things to say about LeBron, or Dwight Howard when they arrived in the NBA. Vets just don't like the kids for whom the game comes too easily.

 
Harper is finishing his fourth season in MLB - he's played in 506 games to date with 2,127 plate appearances.  He's long past the point of being an unwashed rookie who needs to be taught how to act in the show.

 

[Apisith]

Yes, and he's obviously worked his ass off to become the best player in the game. I'd be fine with him not running out a few pop ups because otherwise his results are otherworldly and those only come from hard work. 

 

[lexrageorge]

 
Harper is finishing his fourth season in MLB - he's played in 506 games to date with 2,127 plate appearances.  He's long past the point of being an unwashed rookie who needs to be taught how to act in the show.

What exactly did he do wrong that indicates he needs further teaching? 
 
The "jogged popup" happens way more often than we'd all like to admit, and he made it to first anyway.  Until someone can point to something he did wrong, then the above sentiment needs to be buried once and for all.

 

[soxhop411]

What exactly did he do wrong that indicates he needs further teaching? 
 
The "jogged popup" happens way more often than we'd all like to admit, and he made it to first anyway.  Until someone can point to something he did wrong, then the above sentiment needs to be buried once and for all.

Being too talented 

 

[E5 Yaz]

A long, behind-the-scenes look at the Nats and Papelbon (It leads with the trade ramifications):
 

Throughout the season, when everyday players are going to get a day off, the manager typically finds a way to get the message to a player the night before. The player, then, can do with that information whatever he wants — get in a more rigorous weight-lifting session that night, arrive at the ballpark a little later the next day, whatever. More importantly, a player with a day off can mentally decompress and, for once, relax.
According to individuals with direct knowledge of the situation, Werth hadn’t received such a message from Williams. This wasn’t the first time, and Werth wasn’t the first veteran to experience what players considered an oversight once, an egregious error beyond that.
What might have been a minor blip in a successful season became a boiling point. Incensed, Werth ripped the lineup card off the wall, bellowing that it was going to change. Then, according to several people who were present, he confronted Williams — not just about whether he would play that day, but about what most of the clubhouse considered to be a chronic lack of communication with his players. Among the most jarring barbs, from Werth to Williams: “When exactly do you think you lost this team?”

 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/nationals/trade-for-jonathan-papelbon-had-disastrous-results-for-the-nationals/2015/09/30/0aef1564-66ee-11e5-8325-a42b5a459b1e_story.html?postshare=571443633832745

 

[Average Reds]

Jesus ... That article is something.

 

[OCD SS]

I thought it was a Rembrant

Given his temperament and the volume of his production, I think you have to go with Caravaggio.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Shocking turn of events:
 

Williams, who will indeed be given his pink slip following the year, bizarrely left his closer Papelbon in a game after Papelbon attempted to strangle the team's franchise player Bryce Harper between innings, as we all saw -- well, all except Williams himself. While it's possible Williams may actually have missed the unprecedented, embarrassing dugout choke job, as he claimed, it's almost as damning that he was in the dark.
 

 

[nighthob]

Harper is finishing his fourth season in MLB - he's played in 506 games to date with 2,127 plate appearances.  He's long past the point of being an unwashed rookie who needs to be taught how to act in the show.

Oh, I agree, which is why I agree that Papelbon is a douchebag. He's had as much to do with the Nats' slow motion suicide as anyone else. But people were citing an article that anonymously polled ex-players about Harper, and the grumpy old guys are nearly always the "Kids these days..." types. It doesn't surprise me even a little that Bryce Harper rubbed older players the wrong way given his early arrival and adolescent attitude issues. But it nearly always happens this way (Trout being the exception that proves the rule). Of course, that guy's gone and Papelbon is still a major douchebag.

 

[Leather]

Oh, I agree, which is why I agree that Papelbon is a douchebag. He's had as much to do with the Nats' slow motion suicide as anyone else. But people were citing an article that anonymously polled ex-players about Harper, and the grumpy old guys are nearly always the "Kids these days..." types. It doesn't surprise me even a little that Bryce Harper rubbed older players the wrong way given his early arrival and adolescent attitude issues. But it nearly always happens this way (Trout being the exception that proves the rule). Of course, that guy's gone and Papelbon is still a major douchebag.

 
*Record scratch*

 

[Winger 03]

This is interesting, what are the examples of this?
 
Certainly not blowing the pitcher in a low A ball game a kiss after hitting a HR.  Pretty well documented that they were getting on Harper pretty good that series and he was HBP and had to leave the game the night before.
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-06-07/bryce-harper-blows-kiss-after-home-run
 
That is the touchstone for Harper being immature and often the most widely misunderstood item of his brief minor league stay.
 

These things tend to feed on themselves and people are slow to change their opinions, if they will change them at all. When Harper first started with pro ball, he had an attitude problem and was immature. Of course, was also a teenager so that's not exactly shocking.
Add those things together and you have a steep uphill battle for Harper with the average fan and I'm not sure there's a good argument to be made that he should care enough about what the average fan thinks to fight it.

 

[Klostrophobic]

Serious question: what's wrong with Harper's attitude? People seem to have adopted opinions on him based on what he did in the minors or when he was a rookie. I follow the team pretty closely and I don't see anything wrong with his attitude. Adam Kilgore was the Post beat writer for Harper's entire career until this season and I think he nails it here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/09/28/criticism-of-bryce-harper-in-papelbon-scuffle-is-off-base-and-out-of-date/

Every time I hear about Harper being a loaf I feel like I'm living in some bizarro world where everyone is a moron. Is there a player in the majors who hustles as much as Harper? Trout perhaps? The dude seems really well-adjusted for someone who was annointed at like age 14 as the next generational talent.
 
So glad we have the best player in baseball publicly shaming and calling out the faux-machismo that is the intentional beanball.

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

This is interesting, what are the examples of this?
 
Certainly not blowing the pitcher in a low A ball game a kiss after hitting a HR.  Pretty well documented that they were getting on Harper pretty good that series and he was HBP and had to leave the game the night before.
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-06-07/bryce-harper-blows-kiss-after-home-run
 
That is the touchstone for Harper being immature and often the most widely misunderstood item of his brief minor league stay.
 

 
1. That he was provoked does not absolve him of criticism for that incident.
 
2. There were plenty of reports of him doing things like arguing balls and strikes a lot. Here's an example:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwWU5C7-g5s
 
He was 17. He was immature. Those two things are heavily related. It's not an indictment of his whole career, but he did some things that rubbed people the wrong way early on and people have long memories. It's dumb to continue holding him accountable for something he did very shortly after being drafted, but good luck convincing people they are being jacks asses for it.

 

[grimshaw]

He did the foot drag thing across the logo which didn't sit well with Braves fans.  I mean, pretty minor stuff, but most players don't do stuff like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fupM95iIHSs

 

[singaporesoxfan]

As long as Braves fans are still doing that tomahawk chop nonsense Harper can moonwalk across the logo for all I care.

 

[loshjott]

Harper is the anti John Rocker.

http://atmlb.com/1PVt6sF

 

[geoduck no quahog]

As long as Braves fans are still doing that tomahawk chop nonsense Harper can moonwalk across the logo for all I care.

 
+10