Patriots @ Dolphins, Week 1 Offensive Line Analysis
- Thread starter KFP
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So, so good.Ross Safko said:
I know it wasn't a lot of snaps, but was Connolly better at RG than at C?
Super Nomario said:
Significantly so (which went against all of my preconceived feelings before digging into the tape).
I just don't think he's a good decision maker. He has a hard time with help blocking, and can't identify blitzes well. That bears out at guard as well, but his biggest weaknesses need to be the biggest strengths at center. His strengths really are movement - pulling in the run game and on screens - and that is much better suited at guard.
Really phenomenal stuff. Can't get analysis like this anywhere else. You guys are raising the bar.
That was great, congrats.
After all that sophisticated analysis, can i ask the crude question? WTF do they see in Devey, for God's f-ing sake? I'm no OL expert and don't claim to be, but jeezus Devey sucked out loud over extensive spring training snaps -- may not be an expert but when a guy gets consistently stood up and pushed over when he's not just whiffing on blocks, even a piker can see that. I didn't even see how he made the roster -- I thought maybe another year of PS since clearly they see something in him. And then he becomes a starter...with predictable results? I don't get it. Not that he's the whole problem, but he's no solution either. Kline was perfectly fine when he played last year...is there simply a theoretical desire to have a bigger guy there, and they're letting that theory trump the practical reality that Devey sucks?
After all that sophisticated analysis, can i ask the crude question? WTF do they see in Devey, for God's f-ing sake? I'm no OL expert and don't claim to be, but jeezus Devey sucked out loud over extensive spring training snaps -- may not be an expert but when a guy gets consistently stood up and pushed over when he's not just whiffing on blocks, even a piker can see that. I didn't even see how he made the roster -- I thought maybe another year of PS since clearly they see something in him. And then he becomes a starter...with predictable results? I don't get it. Not that he's the whole problem, but he's no solution either. Kline was perfectly fine when he played last year...is there simply a theoretical desire to have a bigger guy there, and they're letting that theory trump the practical reality that Devey sucks?
Tony C said:
I have some thoughts on this, but nothing concrete.
Would love to hear what the masses think re: Devey on the roster.
My assumption is that he is doing everything that they need him to do poorly. I hope that the rookies are doing the things that they can do better than Devey but they aren't quite where they need to be in terms of knowing what they are supposed to be doing all the time.Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I don't know where the breaking point is between doing what needs to be done poorly and doing half of what needs to be done well is on the OLine.
I guess it concerning that Vollmer was THAT bad after an obvious injury (even if it only affected him for that drive) and they kept him out there. Say what you want but Mankins would have freed up Cannon who filled in pretty good at RT last year. Were the coaches unwilling/worried about putting another player in at LG and have Cannon move over (or simply plug someone else into RT).
Jaworski was just on ESPN saying he thinks Brady was tipping his hike count to Wake, helping his rush on Vollmer. Certainly on that one play watching the game I thought it was off-sides. It wasn't, but Vollmer sure didn't have much of a chance.
Look forward to yr thoughts on Devey, Kenny.
Look forward to yr thoughts on Devey, Kenny.
I don't understand why Devey is even on the roster. He was bad all through Spring Training as well. What do the Pats see in this guy, anyway? This kind of thing makes me doubt the coaching staff.
The Dolphins bragged about buying tapes of Brady's cadence a few years ago. Maybe they did it again.Tony C said:
JerBear said:
Do you (or anyone) have any insight as to why Kline wasn't active last week?
bakahump said:
Tony C said:
I think these two things could go hand in hand. There's a possibility that Vollmer missing a play after landing on his head and then playin ghis worst stretch of the game could be coincidental. If Miami figured out a tell on Brady, it would make some sense that they wouldn't be able to start taking advantage of it until later in the game after building up enough evidence.
Has there been any other discussion of this?
Pumpsie said:
Belichick used to operate under the assumption that certain positions were more fungible than others. Guard was one of those fungible positions. He may have been giving Devey a look in week one to decide if he was able to be even remotely useful to this roster. I'm sure it won't be the last time we see Devey, but another showing like last week could really kill his chances at stepping onto the field on game day for the Patriots anymore.
Tony C said:
That was my conclusion as well. If Wendell is healthy after his leg injury, I think you see Wendell at center, which pushes Connolly to right guard. Personally, I'd like to see them try Kline at left guard and Cannon at right guard (if they continue to run over the left side more frequently, and if they're planning on keeping a power blocking scheme). Cannon wasn't great when having the play run directly behind him last week at left guard, even though he has the size to push people around. I'm hoping he can get better at dictating his block. Cannon just may not have the quick speed/punch to drive his blocker off the ball, in which case Kline is probably the better option.
Linemen in the NFL are superhero strong, and winning a block has as much (maybe more) to do with who wins the first step/punch. If an offensive lineman is quick off the ball and can get inside (hands under d-lineman's chest plate on shoulder pads, facemask into d-lineman's chest) his man, 8 times out of 10 he'll win that battle.
The more I look at week 1, the more it felt like a tryout period for the linemen.
If I had to take a stab at what happened last week, I would say that BB knows what he has with Solder/Vollmer/Wendell/Connolly. He knows that the right guard position has more depth than any other interior position. Connolly is adequate, Cannon is adequate. He wasn't psyched with Kline in the preseason, so he was hoping Cannon could transition to left guard. The jury is still out, but it certainly feels like Cannon is better suited at right guard (solid at power blocking schemes, and pulling/throwing his weight around, which works when you run left as often as the Patriots do). I don't think he's thrilled with Kline at left guard (not quick enough to make up for his lack of size), and he was testing Devey out as depth at guard (which Belichick was going to pull the plug on in the second half until Wendell got hurt).
This also lends a little credence to the rumors we heard about Vollmer moving inside. He's a very good run blocker and is big, quick, and agile enough to play guard. He'd actually make a pretty good left guard in this Patriots scheme. Cannon/Connolly are good at pulling down the line to clear a path, and Vollmer is a solid run blocker who is quick enough to get the first punch on linemen and big enough to maintain his block. Also, from what I saw out of Fleming in very limited snaps, he was solid. 3 of his 4 snaps were on in the run game, but I'd be interested to see his development going forward.
Anyway, when I look at the "why?" of who was on the line in week 1, this was what I came up with.
This is awesome stuff Ross. I remember a game in Vollmer's rookie season where he left for a few plays with a bump on the head and when he returned he went from rock of Gibraltar pre-nick to human turnstile. I will try to find the game online, but it jibes well with your tape analysis of this game.Ross Safko said:
Interesting the tape review graded Cannon out favorably, given how game thread responses were so mixed. I thought he was the best OL on the inside also, which is not saying too much in the context of the game.
To your question about Devey, I don't get it either. I thought Kline was much better when he played last year and do not get what is going on with him.
bakahump said:
Yes, as I noted in the Mankins trade thread, you have to look at not just who's replacing Mankins but who is the next man up behind that guy.
Can't post in the game thread for the Vikings game so I figure this is the next best place. With Wendell out, do we see Stork at center and Connolly at guard today? A couple of times this week reporters have asked Coach Bill about Stork and the common thread in his responses has been that his injury in preseason set him back in terms of development. However, with Devey not ready for prime time, does Bill call on Stork today? With Stork playing his majority of snaps at center at Florida State, is that the only position that he should be playing this early in his career? Could he play guard if the Pats wanted to keep Connolly at center?
I'm almost positive Stork will be active today, since with Wendell out he's the only other option at C. I think Stork at C, Connolly at RG is more likely than the inverse, but I'm not sure how much we'll see either. Stork only played 37 snaps in the preseason. It's possible we see Kline active (and starting at G) and Devey or Fleming deactivated, too.Dr. Gonzo said:
Super Nomario said:
I haven't seen/heard much on Stork, and usually we have a little smoke before the fire.
I think Seeing Connolly at center with Kline/Cannon at guard (not sure which side) is a real possibility. I hate seeing Connolly at center, but Stork is a Armstead Yeti until I actually see him on the field.
Worth nothing this little tidbit from Reiss. Accords with what I saw, not that either of us know much.
With Fleming, Stork, and Kline getting snaps on Sunday, they're definitely playing around/experimenting with the OL...which at least indicates they see some of what we see.
With Fleming, Stork, and Kline getting snaps on Sunday, they're definitely playing around/experimenting with the OL...which at least indicates they see some of what we see.
I'm only 1/4 of the way down with my gamefilm (lots of work to do today), but I was pretty umimpressed with Stephen. Connolly was beating him off the ball all first quarter as well. It looked like Connolly was playing better, but Shamar Stephen was not impressive.