Pats-Colts Discussion Thread

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Colts open as 1 point favorites in Vegas. It’s pretty simple. Don’t let Jonathan Taylor run all over. The Colts’ lack of weapons beyond Michael Pittman will play right into the Patriots’ successful use of zone defense. I’ll be watching the status of Adrian Phillips when they practice on Tuesday as he’s a huge part of the defense.

Offensively, ball security is huge this week. The Colts have forced more fumbles than any team. Darius Leonard especially is good at it. The Colts rushing defense is extremely good but they can be thrown on. I think we’ll see a lot of 11 personnel this week and Josh putting the ball in Mac’s hands.

In weighted DVOA, the Colts are 4th overall(5 offense/6 defense/8 ST)and are 7-3 in their last 10 games. They are 8th in overall DVOA.
 

RIrooter09

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Any word on Harris’s injury? Not finding much online.
 
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radsoxfan

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Any word on Harris’s injury? Not finishing much online.
I haven't heard much in the way of updates either but it's hard to come back from a hamstring strain in 2 weeks.

It's probably on the lower end of the spectrum given he briefly was able to come back in the game. But even so, grade 1 or grade 1/2 injuries are not typically ready for NFL-level effort in 2 weeks.

I hope he's back full-strength for the Colts but if he had an MRI that showed any injury at all, I think it's pretty unlikely.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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Any word on Harris’s injury? Not finding much online.
Similarly, I'm not sure I've seen anywhere that Duggar is off the covid list, whether he's returned to practice or is experiencing any lingering symptoms. We saw an impact to Amari Cooper that lasted a couple of weeks, and when he returned he was on a snap count. Duggar would be huge to have against Taylor. I believe based on the supposed chance that he could play against the Bills that he was vaccinated (and I believe Cooper was not), but I couldn't find media confirmation with some googling this morning.

I have no idea where the NFL keeps a public record of this list as this nfl.com reserved list doesn't include Duggar anywhere on it or Keenan Allen, who is certainly still on it (under the assumption that players are removed): https://www.nfl.com/transactions/league/reserve-list/2021/12

Edit: I have no idea where they get their data from, but this sports betting tracker site seems to indicate that Duggar is still on there: https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/covid-19-list-tracker-for-players-nfl-policies/
 

loshjott

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Similarly, I'm not sure I've seen anywhere that Dugger is off the covid list, whether he's returned to practice or is experiencing any lingering symptoms. We saw an impact to Amari Cooper that lasted a couple of weeks, and when he returned he was on a snap count. Dugger would be huge to have against Taylor. I believe based on the supposed chance that he could play against the Bills that he was vaccinated (and I believe Cooper was not), but I couldn't find media confirmation with some googling this morning.

I have no idea where the NFL keeps a public record of this list as this nfl.com reserved list doesn't include Dugger anywhere on it or Keenan Allen, who is certainly still on it (under the assumption that players are removed): https://www.nfl.com/transactions/league/reserve-list/2021/12
They haven't practiced since the Bills game, I believe.
 

BigSoxFan

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This is pretty close to a must win for Indy given the stacked wild card competition. Will be very interesting to see how BB attacks this defense. We all know the name of the game on defense is to not let Taylor run it down our throats. If this becomes a Wentz throwing game, I’ll gladly take my chances.
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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They haven't practiced since the Bills game, I believe.
Got it. I believe teams can practice Monday - Wednesday of a bye week, so I figured that Belichick would use all the time available to him, but perhaps coming off a Monday night game and a win made him skip it (or maybe that's always his MO anyway).
 

BunnzMcGinty

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And he was guaranteed to be on it next year if the Pats don't make the playoffs.
Do individual teams agree to be on Hard Knocks or is it another one of those things where the league forces teams to do it and they’re required to for media accessibility?
 

Phil Plantier

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cshea

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If no team volunteers, the league can foce a team to participate. They can't just pick anyone though, there are critera they would follow. One of which is a team that missed the playoffs 2 years in a row.
 

Cotillion

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If no team volunteers, the league can foce a team to participate. They can't just pick anyone though, there are critera they would follow. One of which is a team that missed the playoffs 2 years in a row.
and if the Pats didn't make the playoffs... the league was going to say "no one volunteered... it's your turn Bill" cause the Pats would have lost their last get out of jail free card (unless Bill retired and we had a new headcoach)
 

Dahabenzapple2

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This broadcast team gets a lot of praise, but I have to say that I don't get it (notwithstanding Pam Oliver, legend). I guess Olsen is a little above average, but they don't stand out as anything special to me. If you gave me Kenny Albert and Rich Gannon instead, I'd have a hard time telling them apart.
Olsen is another rote analyst who never shuts up. Not nearly as bad as Moose Johnston (who is the worst of the pack) but awful nonetheless. Too bad James Lofton continues to be relegated to the back of the line-up. He’s very good - humble and understated.
 

SMU_Sox

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Hope Adrian Phillips and Dugger are back and healthy. If they aren't I think they lose.

Offensively the Colts run 11 65%, 12 22%, 21 6%, and 13 6%. So basically 2/3rds 11 and 1/3 heavy. In 11 they run it 38% of the time and have success 52% of the time on those runs. So they can run it and well from lighter personnel. They only have success throwing it 44% of the time from 11 and part of that is because their WRs are not a strength. When you look at their passing success rate it is below 50% for all of the above personnel groupings mins 21 and they throw it almost 50% of the time in 21. Their run success is above 50% in all of those positional groupings. That's scary. I think going big nickel and base are going to be key because you are more worried about them running it. This matchup reminds me of the Browns - force Wentz to throw it against base and don't let Taylor and that run game going. Phillips and Dugger are so crucial to this game not just because they will cover the slots/TEs/and Rbs but also because they are going to be crucial plugging the run. Also, Godchaux, Davis, Ekuale, Guy, and Barmore need to have big games. If you can't stop the Colts running up the gut (which they do ~10% more than the NFL average) this is going to be a long day.

Defensively the Colts tend to play more zone than average but disguise their coverage a lot. I haven't had a chance to deep dive them this year but they still, I think, play a lot of cover 3 mixed in with 2-high looks. They also drop in Tampa-2 stuff... no really they do and that is like a changeup that catches QBs by surprise. They use a 4-3 base but now-a-days that's a 4-2-5. They have a tough line to run on especially up the middle. If I am the Pats I use a lot of pin-pulls, crack-tosses, outside zone, counters, etc and run off of left and right tackle or left end. The reason for that is while the Colts are so solid up the middle against the run they have not been as successful with outside runs. This is also going to be an important game for Mason, Andrews, Karras, and Jakob Johnson getting to the 2nd level because the Colts LBs are so good in pursuit - they have rangy guys. The Patriots run it up the middle even more than the Colts but this is not the day you want to do that - and since they run anything under the sun they should be able to adjust appropriately.

Last note for the defense... they confused the hell out of Josh Allen with post-snap trickery. Mac is vulnerable to that like any QB especially a rookie is. So I do worry about turnovers especially when I think the Pats will schematically want to throw more because that is where the advantage is vs the Colts. I do wonder though how well the Colts will defend against gap/power/lead concepts that are run off-tackle. I could see that being a surprising area where the Pats find some success.

It should be a close game on paper. If Dugger and Phillips are healthy I ever-so-slightly like their odds. The Colts are a good team and are well-coached on both sides of the ball. This has the potential to be a real gem of a game. Hope our guys come out on top.
 

DGreenwood

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Got it. I believe teams can practice Monday - Wednesday of a bye week, so I figured that Belichick would use all the time available to him, but perhaps coming off a Monday night game and a win made him skip it (or maybe that's always his MO anyway).
They couldn't practice Monday, as you pointed out, because they played Monday. Tuesday is a league wide mandatory day off. Players are also guaranteed Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday off the week of their bye.

So the only day they could have practiced last week would have been Wednesday.
 

SMU_Sox

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Here is a handy guide to offensive rushing success rates (not frequency) out of personnel groupings. In case you were wondering about it from my earlier post. You can find it here.

47275

Quick edit: the link has a toggle between frequency and success rates.
 

tims4wins

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Olsen is another rote analyst who never shuts up. Not nearly as bad as Moose Johnston (who is the worst of the pack) but awful nonetheless. Too bad James Lofton continues to be relegated to the back of the line-up. He’s very good - humble and understated.
Lofton may be the best analyst out there due to all of these qualities. I’ve very much enjoyed the multiple Pats games he has called this year.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Lofton may be the best analyst out there due to all of these qualities. I’ve very much enjoyed the multiple Pats games he has called this year.
The problem is that the networks are ignorant of who is good and who isn’t.
Think of the ESPN crew or any of their Monday night announcers all the way back the legendarily awful tandem of Mike Patrick & Joe Theismann!!!
 

The Social Chair

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I'm out of market and have purchased NFL Sunday Ticket & ESPN (via Sling) to watch the Patriots but I don't have NFL Network. Is this game going to be streamed on Yahoo or Amazon for free?
 

azsoxpatsfan

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I'm out of market and have purchased NFL Sunday Ticket & ESPN (via Sling) to watch the Patriots but I don't have NFL Network. Is this game going to be streamed on Yahoo or Amazon for free?
I could be wrong but I think if you download the NFL app (either on phone or tv) you can sign in with a cable provider and watch NFL network games
 

koufax32

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While you’re divulging your game plan through the media, do you think he’s susceptible to the blitz and if so, which extra rushers do you plan to send?

Just another reason to appreciate BB’s coaching. Imagine a NEP saying something like this. BB would eat his soul.
 

Bowhemian

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Sure, go ahead and stack the box. We'll see if it works out as well for you as it did for Buff.
Stacking the box is living on the edge defensively, as evidenced by Harris' long TD run. Once you get through that 1st and 2nd level, it's off to the races.

I understand that Indy has a decent run defense, so I don't really think they will have 10 or 11 in the box. I just think they will go heavy up front. That makes them susceptible to the screens, tosses, short crosses, etc.
 

Soxy

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While you’re divulging your game plan through the media, do you think he’s susceptible to the blitz and if so, which extra rushers do you plan to send?

Just another reason to appreciate BB’s coaching. Imagine a NEP saying something like this. BB would eat his soul.
It does seem pretty stupid to just say that in the media, but I'm not sure there's a ton of mystery there, really. As SMU notes in his excellent post above, the Pats probably want to throw too, because that's where the Colts are weaker, generally speaking. This has the makings of a "let Mac cook" kind of game.

Colts have had some struggles with TEs in the passing game, so maybe this is the week Jonnu Smith finally breaks out?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Until proven otherwise, the Colts are the Colts and I refuse to worry about this game.
 

Bowhemian

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Until proven otherwise, the Colts are the Colts and I refuse to worry about this game.
I am with you KFP. I actually think they are a bit of a fraud this year (well, same as any other year, amirite?). Great running game for sure-but is their offense truly a one-trick pony?
 

RIrooter09

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I think we're in for a rock fight. This is truly a pick'em for me, and I give the Colts the slight edge due to home field. I hope I'm wrong.
 

BaseballJones

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I think anyone underestimating the Colts is making a big mistake. Maybe the Pats win. Maybe the Pats win handily. Maybe the Colts will do Colts-like things. But they're actually pretty good.

#3 in the NFL in points scored
#9 in the NFL in points allowed

Best running back in football (now that Henry is out). Awesome offensive line. A QB who is very capable especially if teams load up against the run. Seven games this year with a passer rating of over 100. Other than their loss to Seattle to start the year, all their losses are to very good teams: Rams, Titans (x2), Bucs, and the Ravens. They've also beaten San Francisco and destroyed Buffalo, and now the win against Miami looks like a quality win too.

So yeah, they're very good. They're at home. Like the Pats, they're coming off their own bye week. I think this game will be a handful for the Pats and if they can't slow Taylor down, it might be a very very hard game to win. Of course, the Pats have won games where they've allowed lots of rushing yards but very little in the air, so it could also go that way.

We shall see.
 

TSC

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I am with you KFP. I actually think they are a bit of a fraud this year (well, same as any other year, amirite?). Great running game for sure-but is their offense truly a one-trick pony?
Plus - I have confidence in Belichick's ability to force Carson Wentz into a bunch of mistakes.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think anyone underestimating the Colts is making a big mistake. Maybe the Pats win. Maybe the Pats win handily. Maybe the Colts will do Colts-like things. But they're actually pretty good.

#3 in the NFL in points scored
#9 in the NFL in points allowed

Best running back in football (now that Henry is out). Awesome offensive line. A QB who is very capable especially if teams load up against the run. Seven games this year with a passer rating of over 100. Other than their loss to Seattle to start the year, all their losses are to very good teams: Rams, Titans (x2), Bucs, and the Ravens. They've also beaten San Francisco and destroyed Buffalo, and now the win against Miami looks like a quality win too.

So yeah, they're very good. They're at home. Like the Pats, they're coming off their own bye week. I think this game will be a handful for the Pats and if they can't slow Taylor down, it might be a very very hard game to win. Of course, the Pats have won games where they've allowed lots of rushing yards but very little in the air, so it could also go that way.

We shall see.
Fully agreed. They are also 8th in DVOA and 6th in weighted DVOA. If anything, they're underrated due to their record and having lost a bunch of one score games to good teams. IMO, they're right in the mix with Tennessee and Buffalo as potentially the third best team in the AFC. And they're healthier than both of those teams were when the Patriots faced them.

Plus - I have confidence in Belichick's ability to force Carson Wentz into a bunch of mistakes.
This is what I'm hoping for as well. Make Wentz beat you and trust that he'll beat himself.

This is a big game for Mac because the Colts are going to use the same type of strategy.
 

Saints Rest

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It really does shape up to be a mirror image game. On offense, both teams will want to impose their will via the running game. On defense, both teams will load up to stop the run and take their chances against a second-tier QB.

EDIT: And by "second-tier", I am saying in the 11-20 range.
 

pokey_reese

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This game might be a tougher test than the Buffalo game was, but should also give us a much better sense of where the team is at, without the insane weather weirdness impact. 538's ELO has this game as 50/50, ESPN's FPI has the Pats at 53.5% to win, and while FO hasn't updated their matchups yet, DVOA likes both of these teams a lot, so with the Pats on the road I would expect them to predict a close one as well.

I'm not sure where the anti-Wentz confidence is coming from, he has a slight edge in DVOA over Jones, a moderate advantage in QBR, and a 22-5 TD-INT, which as a ratio is behind on Aaron Rodgers and Kirk Cousins. He doesn't take a ton of sacks, averages 4 yards per carry when he runs the ball (which he has done 41 times this year), and gets his DPI yards about the same as everyone else. I'm not saying that he is awesome, but I'm certainly not counting on him to beat himself. Luckily, JC Jackson is ready to take on that role. I hope that if you take Pittman away with a top corner, there isn't much left, and then it is just a slugfest in the trenches.
 

BusRaker

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There's no way Indy scores 30. We probably won't score 30. I think taking care of the football (obviously against the #1 takeaway team) and keeping them from prolonged drives to milk the clock is the only way it doesn't come down to a one possession game in the 4th. Having Dugger and Phillips will help with the later.

That said, it will end up being like 49-34 or something