Pats trade for OL Trent Brown

Saints Rest

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Assuming Thuney is gone, I am praying for Andrews to return and hoping to keep Cannon.

Brown, as talented as he is, had a terrible year in 2020. His health is not guaranteed, especially as he battled lower-body issues throughout last season.

My best guess (hope?) at 2021-2022 OL:
  • LT: Wynn/Brown
  • LG: Onwenu
  • C: Andrews
  • RG: Mason
  • RT: Brown/Cannon
  • Backups: Cajuste, Herron, Cunningham, Ferentz, Martin, Toran, Reynolds (plus F.A. and rookies)
  • Not returning: Thuney, Eluemunor
That's a solid, solid group, especially if Cajuste finally becomes healthy enough to contribute.
But who, other than Ferentz, is our backup center? I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those 4th round comp picks go for a center.
 

ramfan

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So if I understand correctly, the Pats ten draft picks this year will look something like this:
  • 1st round pick (15th overall)
  • 2nd round pick (47th overall)
  • end of 3nd round compensatory pick (for TB12)
  • 4th round pick
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Van Noy)
  • end of 4th round compensatory pick (for Collins)
  • 5th round pick (traded to OAK for Trent Brown)
  • 6th round pick (via Dallas for Michael Bennett)
  • 6th round pick
  • 7th round pick
  • 7th round pick (from OAK as part of Trent Brown trade)
Or ranked by overall position (if my calculus about comp picks is correct -- I used overthgcap.com):
  • 15
  • 47
  • 97
  • 111
  • 130
  • 136
  • 186
  • 191
  • 231
  • 233
i think both picks 5th and 7th are 2022 according to twitter chat. nothing final

View: https://twitter.com/PhilAPerry/status/1369286326869258240
 

SeoulSoxFan

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But who, other than Ferentz, is our backup center? I wouldn't be surprised to see one of those 4th round comp picks go for a center.
Well, bringing Ted Karras back would be too easy of an answer, along with spending a late-round pick on a rookie center (highly doubt it'd be a 4th rounder).
 

RG33

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Could there be a more Belichickean sequence of moves than trading a 3rd for someone, squeezing an elite SB season out of him, getting a 3rd rd comp pick for letting him gothen getting him back at a discount a couple years later for a low pick swap?

Need him healthy and in shape but you have to like the flexibility this provides as FA kicks off.
Yes. Trade a 4th to the 49ers for Jimmy G. on a restructured contract after having sent him to them 3 years ago for a high 2nd and let them sign him to a league high contract?

Sorry, wishcasting.
 

jsinger121

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Well, bringing Ted Karras back would be too easy of an answer, along with spending a late-round pick on a rookie center (highly doubt it'd be a 4th rounder).
I wouldn’t bring Karras back. I thought he was pretty awful filling in for Andrews and feel they can do a lot better than him.
 

tims4wins

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Well, bringing Ted Karras back would be too easy of an answer, along with spending a late-round pick on a rookie center (highly doubt it'd be a 4th rounder).
Considering they have three 4th rounders, I kind of hope they use one on a center. I've seen the name Quinn Meinerz (Wisconsin-Whitewater) thrown around a bunch.
 

E5 Yaz

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So it took literally the first move (yes, it's not a FA, but the guy did have to agree to restructure) of offseason to dispel the "Pats will have to overpay guys. They won't want to play here".
As you said, he wasn't a free agent

He has experience in the Patriots system, and the restructure gives him a chance reestablish himself for his next deal.

When an actual high-profile free agent who doesn't already have a track record in FA comes aboard, get back to us
 

BaseballJones

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As you said, he wasn't a free agent

He has experience in the Patriots system, and the restructure gives him a chance reestablish himself for his next deal.

When an actual high-profile free agent who doesn't already have a track record in FA comes aboard, get back to us
You're right that he wasn't a FA, but this post isn't a fair criticism, really, of DJnVA's point. He was ABOUT to become a free agent, apparently (the Raiders were likely to cut him). And he didn't HAVE to take a restructured contract. He could have simply gone to free agency and maybe (or maybe not) gotten more money. But he didn't. He took a lesser deal to go with the Pats. Without that, NE doesn't likely trade for him and he ends up being a free agent after the Raiders release him.

So yeah, he isn't technically a FA signing, but he DID (apparently) take a pay cut to facilitate coming to New England. So it counts for something.
 

BaseballJones

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E5 Yaz

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You're right that he wasn't a FA, but this post isn't a fair criticism, really, of DJnVA's point. He was ABOUT to become a free agent, apparently (the Raiders were likely to cut him). And he didn't HAVE to take a restructured contract. He could have simply gone to free agency and maybe (or maybe not) gotten more money. But he didn't. He took a lesser deal to go with the Pats. Without that, NE doesn't likely trade for him and he ends up being a free agent after the Raiders release him.

So yeah, he isn't technically a FA signing, but he DID (apparently) take a pay cut to facilitate coming to New England. So it counts for something.
You can't judge on hypotheticals; you can only judge on realities.
 

Cellar-Door

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You can't judge on hypotheticals; you can only judge on realities.
So you can't judge on a guy saying he wants to play here, and taking reduced pay to do so, but you can declare that guys don't want to play here because of............

Yeah, that doesn't really track, this is evidence that players do want to play in NE given the opportunity, or at the very least don't see NE as a place that you don't want to play.
 

BaseballJones

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So you can't judge on a guy saying he wants to play here, and taking reduced pay to do so, but you can declare that guys don't want to play here because of............

Yeah, that doesn't really track, this is evidence that players do want to play in NE given the opportunity, or at the very least don't see NE as a place that you don't want to play.
Well it's evidence that Trent Brown wanted to play in NE and was willing to take less to play here. Maybe he will be the only one to do that, I don't know. I doubt it, but it's possible.
 

E5 Yaz

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The reality is still that he accepted reduced pay to play for the Patriots.
As i pointed out, he's not a typical free agent making a typical move. He's going back to an org where he knows the drill and knew he thrived. It can't be viewed the same as a true FA w/o that background in NE
 

lexrageorge

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Are there prospective free agents that would want more $$ to go to New England than, say, a team that is closer to contention? Sure.

Does that mean that the Pats will have to overpay for any free agent that they want? That's absurd. Players have their own reasons for picking one destination over another. Role matters, especially for the middle-tier of free agents that are unlikely to get the big guaranteed money up front. Non-contending teams attract free agents every season; this one will be no different.
 

RedOctober3829

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Brown reworked his contract to facilitate the trade because he may not have even gotten $11 million for next year on the open market. The market isn't exactly flush with cash throughout the league. He clearly wanted to be back in Foxboro, but this was a better option for him than becoming a free agent due to the depressed market.
 

tims4wins

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As i pointed out, he's not a typical free agent making a typical move. He's going back to an org where he knows the drill and knew he thrived. It can't be viewed the same as a true FA w/o that background in NE
That's fair, but who are the "high profile free agents" that you mentioned that have historically signed in New England for less than 100% of market? The only high profile FAs I remember are Colvin, Adalius Thomas, and Gilmore, all of whom received market. Maybe include Amendola in that too, he was pretty high priced.
 

BaseballJones

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Brown reworked his contract to facilitate the trade because he may not have even gotten $11 million for next year on the open market. The market isn't exactly flush with cash throughout the league. He clearly wanted to be back in Foxboro, but this was a better option for him than becoming a free agent due to the depressed market.
If he wouldn't have gotten that much on the open market, why would BB bother to trade for him? Why not let the Raiders cut him - which apparently they were about to do - and then just sign him as a FA for less than $11 million, while at the same time keeping his 2022 5th round pick?
 

E5 Yaz

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That's fair, but who are the "high profile free agents" that you mentioned that have historically signed in New England for less than 100% of market? The only high profile FAs I remember are Colvin, Adalius Thomas, and Gilmore, all of whom received market. Maybe include Amendola in that too, he was pretty high priced.
I guess i haven't been clear.

I'm of the opinion that with an uncertain quarterback situation, the Patriots aren't as attractive a situation as they were when those players you named signed. I'll be thrilled to have my doubts shown to be wrong, but my sense is that there's a wariness that, post-Brady, the Patriots aren't as attractive an option.

But Trent Brown just seems like the wrong example
 

RedOctober3829

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If he wouldn't have gotten that much on the open market, why would BB bother to trade for him? Why not let the Raiders cut him - which apparently they were about to do - and then just sign him as a FA for less than $11 million, while at the same time keeping his 2022 5th round pick?
Because BB did not want to let Brown hit the open market. It's pretty simple.
 

BaseballJones

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I think you're probably right in the big picture, E5. There's some good reasons why FAs wouldn't be as attracted to NE as they were with Brady. But they still have some gravitas - a top-shelf organization and the greatest HC (and maybe one of the greatest OCs) of all time. That's obviously going to be attractive to SOME players. And it says something when a guy like Brown, who's been here, is willing to take a pay cut to be here. It says, look, the guy KNOWS THE DEAL HERE and wants to be here. Presumably there will be others who might feel the same way.
 

BaseballJones

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Because BB did not want to let Brown hit the open market. It's pretty simple.
But why not? If you're right, and Brown would have been signed for less than $11 million, then that means that the Patriots could have likely gotten him for less than $11 million and saved the small loss in draft pick position in 2022.

Maybe he just felt like going through the rigamarole of FA negotiations was more of a headache at this point, and it was worth the small draft cost to trade for him, even if he would end up paying him more money in salary.
 

tims4wins

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I guess i haven't been clear.

I'm of the opinion that with an uncertain quarterback situation, the Patriots aren't as attractive a situation as they were when those players you named signed. I'll be thrilled to have my doubts shown to be wrong, but my sense is that there's a wariness that, post-Brady, the Patriots aren't as attractive an option.

But Trent Brown just seems like the wrong example
But those guys were signed in 2003, 2007, 2012 or 2013 (Dola, I forget which year), and 2017. So basically once every 4 years. And as mentioned, they all signed for big $$ - market $$.

Or are you talking about the Rex Burkhead's of the world? I would argue guys like Burkhead were just undervalued by the rest of the league and BB jumped on their value. Similar with a Lawrence Guy.

Could you help explain what type of FA you are talking about?
 

BusRaker

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I would imagine Tompa Bay would have liked this trade. Point Belichick in the frivolous media-fed competition?
 

E5 Yaz

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But those guys were signed in 2003, 2007, 2012 or 2013 (Dola, I forget which year), and 2017. So basically once every 4 years. And as mentioned, they all signed for big $$ - market $$.

Or are you talking about the Rex Burkhead's of the world? I would argue guys like Burkhead were just undervalued by the rest of the league and BB jumped on their value. Similar with a Lawrence Guy.

Could you help explain what type of FA you are talking about?
Wide receivers who want to know who their quarterback will be
Quality FAs with track records who are ring-shopping
Players looking for their "one big score" contract

In general, the Patriots right now are an upper middle class team with a significant hole. They play in a cold weather state with high taxes, under a strictly regimented system -- factors that didn't matter when they were constantly in the Super Bowl hunt.

But in NFL terms, the pendulum has started to swing in the other direction. Maybe they rebound as a defense-first challenger, but they'll need pieces beyond those returning from opt-outs to get there.

Again, I'lll be thrilled to be wrong. But I don't see the type of free agent signing that would make us sit up and say "Wow, how'd they get him?"

Can't explain it any better than that. If you're looking for specific names, then I haven't been clear. As Baseball Jones said, I'm just focused on overall picture
 

tims4wins

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Wide receivers who want to know who their quarterback will be
Quality FAs with track records who are ring-shopping
Players looking for their "one big score" contract

In general, the Patriots right now are an upper middle class team with a significant hole. They play in a cold weather state with high taxes, under a strictly regimented system -- factors that didn't matter when they were constantly in the Super Bowl hunt.

But in NFL terms, the pendulum has started to swing in the other direction. Maybe they rebound as a defense-first challenger, but they'll need pieces beyond those returning from opt-outs to get there.

Again, I'lll be thrilled to be wrong. But I don't see the type of free agent signing that would make us sit up and say "Wow, how'd they get him?"

Can't explain it any better than that. If you're looking for specific names, then I haven't been clear. As Baseball Jones said, I'm just focused on overall picture
Who fits these categories historically? You can't name a single name? If not, that kind of shows that the Pats have never been a free agent splash type of team (which we knew). They've NEVER signed a big name free agent wide receiver. Danny Amendola is the closest thing to that. I guess I'm not getting your point. Is it that, while they haven't signed these types of guys, they NOW will need to sign those types of guys to get competitive again, but you are worried that they won't be able to?
 

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Not sure why we don't have a thread for a new (old) starting tackle, but figure we should start one.

Welcome home, big fella.

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- The New England Patriots will be acquiring offensive tackle Trent Brown from the Las Vegas Raiders in a trade after agreeing to a restructured one-year contract worth up to $11 million with him, sources tell ESPN's Field Yates.

A swap of late-round 2022 picks is involved in the trade, a source told ESPN.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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What does this mean for the line? Cannon? Andrews? Thuney? Onwenu? Wynn? WTF?

Edit - Also...Brown/Onwenu/Wynn/Cannon are monsters. If Onwenu/Wynn are guards, those four men are going to fucking maul people, regardless of who is at center.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I think it means they’re prepared to lose Thuney, and it gives them leverage/optionality if they want to restructure Cannon’s deal or cut him.

Doesn’t seem this trade would have any bearing on Andrews’ status, I imagine they’re prepared to make a hard push to keep him either way.
 

E5 Yaz

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Is it that, while they haven't signed these types of guys, they NOW will need to sign those types of guys to get competitive again, but you are worried that they won't be able to?
That's indeed part of it, although I'm not "worried" about it. As fans, we had an unprecedented 20-year run ... and to be worried about it not being the same is more than a little entitled.

I'm just looking big picture, and preparing for a Patriots team that is going to tread water.

This sidetrack started when DJ cited Trent Brown as an answer to suggest that players would still choose to come to the Patriots. I thought the example had flaws and that the premise is unproven.

There's a different between a "big name wide receiver," for instance, and the best available FA wide receive. If they got Robinson and/or Hunter Henry, for example, I'd be pleased, and surprised

They'll wind up spending money on free agents because, after all, they've got money while other teams don't. I just don't think it's because they're "the Patriots" ... because that version of the team no longer exists.

And, with that, I'm done repeating myself. PM me if you'd like to continue
 

tims4wins

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That's indeed part of it, although I'm not "worried" about it. As fans, we had an unprecedented 20-year run ... and to be worried about it not being the same is more than a little entitled.

I'm just looking big picture, and preparing for a Patriots team that is going to tread water.

This sidetrack started when DJ cited Trent Brown as an answer to suggest that players would still choose to come to the Patriots. I thought the example had flaws and that the premise is unproven.

There's a different between a "big name wide receiver," for instance, and the best available FA wide receive. If they got Robinson and/or Hunter Henry, for example, I'd be pleased, and surprised

They'll wind up spending money on free agents because, after all, they've got money while other teams don't. I just don't think it's because they're "the Patriots" ... because that version of the team no longer exists.

And, with that, I'm done repeating myself. PM me if you'd like to continue
We're good. My argument in return is that very few guys ever signed with the Pats "because they're the Patriots", so I believe you're arguing against something that never existed before. We can agree to disagree.
 

BaseballJones

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The Pats have flexibility on the OL.

- Brown can play LT or RT.
- Wynn can play T or G.
- Onwenu can play T or G.

So they can move those guys around as needed, with seemingly very little to no drop-off in play.
 

dcdrew10

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What does this mean for the line? Cannon? Andrews? Thuney? Onwenu? Wynn? WTF?

Edit - Also...Brown/Onwenu/Wynn/Cannon are monsters. If Onwenu/Wynn are guards, those four men are going to fucking maul people, regardless of who is at center.
I'm torn on keeping Cannon. Wynn, Brown, and Cannon are all very good, when they play. They've averaged 10.3 games/season combined for their careers. Brown has played more than 11 games nust 2x in six years, Wynn has played 18 total games in 3 years, and Cannon hasn't played a full season since 2014. It's not likely you can count of any two of them to play a full season, so you need a good swing tackle to pinch hit. Does Cannon bring enough to the table at age 33 and a season off to justify his contract? He really hasn't played much swing tackle since 2013ish. I started this post arguing to keep him, but the more I write, the less I am certain.
 

Shelterdog

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What does this mean for the line? Cannon? Andrews? Thuney? Onwenu? Wynn? WTF?

Edit - Also...Brown/Onwenu/Wynn/Cannon are monsters. If Onwenu/Wynn are guards, those four men are going to fucking maul people, regardless of who is at center.
I assume it's Wynn/Onwenu/Andrews/Mason/Brown. Maybe you can flip flop the tackles. Wynn is a pretty decent left tackle when healthy (I'd assume he'd be a decent guard as well especially given his size and athletic ability) and Brown can play both tackles when he's not planet sized so I assume they keep them at LT/RT.

Cannon was slowing down before he opted out so I'm not so sure they keep him.
 

Super Nomario

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I'm torn on keeping Cannon. Wynn, Brown, and Cannon are all very good, when they play. They've averaged 10.3 games/season combined for their careers. Brown has played more than 11 games nust 2x in six years, Wynn has played 18 total games in 3 years, and Cannon hasn't played a full season since 2014. It's not likely you can count of any two of them to play a full season, so you need a good swing tackle to pinch hit. Does Cannon bring enough to the table at age 33 and a season off to justify his contract? He really hasn't played much swing tackle since 2013ish. I started this post arguing to keep him, but the more I write, the less I am certain.
Onwenu played mostly RT last and acquitted himself fine, so I think you have your third tackle there. Brown and Wynn can both play LT, Brown and Onwenu can both play RT (maybe Wynn can too), so they have options, and Herron is fine as your fourth OT. Interior depth is probably the biggest issue now, assuming Andrews re-signs.
 

Captaincoop

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I assume it's Wynn/Onwenu/Andrews/Mason/Brown. Maybe you can flip flop the tackles. Wynn is a pretty decent left tackle when healthy (I'd assume he'd be a decent guard as well especially given his size and athletic ability) and Brown can play both tackles when he's not planet sized so I assume they keep them at LT/RT.

Cannon was slowing down before he opted out so I'm not so sure they keep him.
My thoughts exactly. They like Herron, too, it seems. This probably means goodbye to Eluemenor.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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My thoughts exactly. They like Herron, too, it seems. This probably means goodbye to Eluemenor.
This is me typing out loud, and not questioning this. Figure the team keeps 8 OL?
Wynn/Owwie/Andrews/Mason/Brown - with Herron and Cajuste, and then draft a C/G in the 4th or 5th round?
 

BigSoxFan

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This is me typing out loud, and not questioning this. Figure the team keeps 8 OL?
Wynn/Owwie/Andrews/Mason/Brown - with Herron and Cajuste, and then draft a C/G in the 4th or 5th round?
I'm giving Cajuste one more chance to remain healthy and then I'm cutting bait on him, for all practical purposes. Dude has talent but just can't get on the field. I hope we're not counting on him in any material way.