Raiders and Chargers add Disney CEO Bob Iger to help convince NFL for relocation (11/11)

Hoya81 · Feb 19, 2015

soxhop411 said:
So this is actually happening yes?

More like a race to L.A between the Rams and the Chargers/Raiders. I can't imagine that any market, even LA can handle 3 NFL teams. The Raiders/Chargers seems like a stronger bid, but I'm not sure if the rest of the league would like those teams getting essentially 9 home games. I remember people raising a stink when the Giants got an extra game when the Saints couldn't use the Superdome. And if both teams are playing at 1pm, how does CBS show the game in the LA area?

singaporesoxfan · Feb 19, 2015

If it did presume there's got to be more reshuffling and either the Raiders or the Chargers join the NFC West to make the logistics work.

singaporesoxfan · Feb 19, 2015

And some quick Twitter searching seems to suggest that's the case:

https://twitter.com/arashmarkazi/status/568611176147505152

Fred not Lynn · Feb 19, 2015

Between this and the Rams - when they say that the NFL should return to LA, I am pretty sure they meant one or two teams, not the whole league...

dbn · Feb 19, 2015

Totally off-topic, but every time I drive past the Carson exit on the 405, without fail, I think of The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. I hear Tuco's voice saying "Carson, Bill Carson." I'm not even sure if he actually says that in the movie, but that's what I hear. Okay, back to football discussion.

Hoya81 · Feb 19, 2015

singaporesoxfan said:
And some quick Twitter searching seems to suggest that's the case:

https://twitter.com/arashmarkazi/status/568611176147505152

https://twitter.com/arashmarkazi/status/568611176147505152

link to tweet

I'd think it would be the Chargers, the Raiders have stronger historical rivalries with the Chiefs and Broncos.

NFC West

LA Chargers
Seattle
San Francisco
Arizona

AFC West

LA Raiders
Denver
Kansas City
St. Louis

Not a bad alignment, and the Chiefs even get to have the Battle of Missouri twice a year.

nattysez · Feb 19, 2015

I really hope that the cities of St. Louis, Oakland and San Diego have the good sense to call these teams' bluff and tell them to finance their own stadiums. The idea that these teams need a penny of taxpayer money to build a stadium is a joke -- the NFL is making money hand over fist. Oakland and St. Louis in particular should not be spending money on stadiums given the many, many, many other glaring needs those cities have.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Feb 20, 2015

Hoya81 said:
I'd think it would be the Chargers, the Raiders have stronger historical rivalries with the Chiefs and Broncos.

NFC West

LA Chargers
Seattle
San Francisco
Arizona

AFC West

LA Raiders
Denver
Kansas City
St. Louis

Not a bad alignment, and the Chiefs even get to have the Battle of Missouri twice a year.

I'd wager that it would be the Seahawks that would return to the AFC under this scenario, given that (a) they used to be in the AFC anyway and (b) it would be a double fuck you to the Rams if they lost the LA move and had to switch conferences.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 20, 2015

Hoya81 said:
More like a race to L.A between the Rams and the Chargers/Raiders. I can't imagine that any market, even LA can handle 3 NFL teams. The Raiders/Chargers seems like a stronger bid, but I'm not sure if the rest of the league would like those teams getting essentially 9 home games. I remember people raising a stink when the Giants got an extra game when the Saints couldn't use the Superdome. And if both teams are playing at 1pm, how does CBS show the game in the LA area?

Just like the Raiders have now with the 49ers and used to have with the Rams, they do not play at the same time. They would have to be offset, obviously, this is much more difficult if they are in the same division. Of course, they would only have to offset them for 12 weeks, since they play each other twice and they each would have a bye. I am pretty sure the Raiders would wind up moving to the NFC, though.

I am stunned that the Raiders and Chargers:

A. worked together on this, though the Davis and Spanos families have always been close
B. managed to buy the land in LA already
C. managed to line up nearly $2 Billion in sponsorship (who is the $ behind this - I think the Dodgers group is a good place to look)
D. keep all of this under wraps with no leaks.

This Raiders season ticket holder is pretty excited, though I wonder how much this just cost me in a couple of years.

Al Zarilla · Feb 20, 2015

Can they get Exxon Mobil to keep the fires down during games though? ~ 3.5 miles as the crow flies.

Every time I drive through LA, I swear I discover another 80,000+ city I'd never heard of. Carson is the latest, but this time I didn't have to go there to find out about it. Established in 1965 after the Watts riots. OK. California State University, Dominguez Hills (CSUDH) is there. Never heard of that either. LA is amazing. LA county has over one fourth of the state's 38 million+ people. Should be able to support two teams.

Devizier · Feb 20, 2015

Long Beach Chargers and the LA Raiders?

theapportioner · Feb 20, 2015

LA Riots would be a good name for a team.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 20, 2015

Devizier said:
Long Beach Chargers and the LA Raiders?

The stadium site is in LA County, they will both be the LA Raiders / Chargers.

Here is a video put out by the stadium team. I think the grass parking spots are kind of neat, of course, I also wonder how much they are going to cost me. The separation of all of the club seating from the peasant seating is an interesting concept, your club customers will never have to blend with the masses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pUrUcH0ic

It is amazing to me that they got this much done with almost no leaks until yesterday. Arash Markazi has a ton of good stuff on his twitter feed on this, including:

- both teams want to play in the Rose bowl in 16, prior to a 17 opening
-The Chargers initiated these talks with Carson 9 months ago and then the Raiders joined them
-The Raiders have hinted that they would be willing to go to the NFC

https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi

Devizier · Feb 20, 2015

Gunfighter 09 said:
The stadium site is in LA County, they will both be the LA Raiders / Chargers.

Long Beach is also in LA County.

I was mainly going for the LBC effect, like Snoop Dogg and Sublime.

Red Right Ankle · Feb 20, 2015

So much drama there though.

WayBackVazquez · Feb 20, 2015

Grass parking spots: because if there's one thing we have plenty of, it's water!

MentalDisabldLst · Feb 20, 2015

Gunfighter 09 said:
-The Raiders have hinted that they would be willing to go to the NFC

Al Davis is spinning in his ~~grave~~ ~~tomb~~ ~~mausoleum~~ crypt.

8slim · Feb 20, 2015

Is this the the 14th or 15th new stadium that's been proposed in and around LA over the past decade? I can't keep it all straight. What happened to Farmer's Field, is that still being built?

I kind of hate to see San Diego and Oakland lose their teams. Those are good football markets and have supported their teams loyally despite lousy stadiums and inconsistent on-field performance. I'd much rather see Jacksonville move to LA, that market never should have gotten an NFL team to begin with.

The Social Chair · Feb 20, 2015

I'm not a fan of this Carson spot at all unless they make some sort of Blue Line extension. In the last decade LA County finally started investing in light rail but now both stadium options are in areas that can only be accessed by car (Carson, Inglewood)?

Farmers Field is still the way to go in my opinion (although Monday Night Football at 6pm would cause a nightmare on the 10 and 110)

snowmanny · Feb 20, 2015

Move the Raiders to the NFC and the Seahawks back to the AFC?

jsinger121 · Feb 20, 2015

snowmanny said:
Move the Raiders to the NFC and the Seahawks back to the AFC?

That would suck for us Pats fans. Bad trade off.

DaughtersofDougMirabelli · Feb 20, 2015

8slim said:
Is this the the 14th or 15th new stadium that's been proposed in and around LA over the past decade? I can't keep it all straight. What happened to Farmer's Field, is that still being built?

I kind of hate to see San Diego and Oakland lose their teams. Those are good football markets and have supported their teams loyally despite lousy stadiums and inconsistent on-field performance. I'd much rather see Jacksonville move to LA, that market never should have gotten an NFL team to begin with.

Khan has done some tremendous things with the Jaguars and Jacksonville in particular. He has a plan to revitalize the docks and make the city near the stadium alive again. They were also up 10% in attendance since last year and are 14th in the league this year in % capacity at 97.5%. The Jaguars aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Awesome Fossum · Feb 20, 2015

nattysez said:
I really hope that the cities of St. Louis, Oakland and San Diego have the good sense to call these teams' bluff and tell them to finance their own stadiums.

Who's bluffing? All three teams do have plans to finance their own stadium -- in Los Angeles.

8slim · Feb 20, 2015

DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
Khan has done some tremendous things with the Jaguars and Jacksonville in particular. He has a plan to revitalize the docks and make the city near the stadium alive again. They were also up 10% in attendance since last year and are 14th in the league this year in % capacity at 97.5%. The Jaguars aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

That's great, but my point really is that Jacksonville is the 48th ranked TV market in the country, nestled in between Albuquerque and Louisville. Twenty years ago the NFL gambled that North Florida was going to take off, population-wise, the way central and south Florida had previously, it just hasn't worked out that way. There's no way a 48th ranked market should have an NFL team. The only smaller markets are New Orleans (which lost a ton of population post-Katrina) and Buffalo (which of course was granted a team 60 years ago when the market was much stronger).

Just a bad bet by the NFL.

Mugsy's Jock · Feb 20, 2015

If the Chargers go to the NFC, swapping the Rams back to the AFC makes more sense than the Seahawks. It gives the Chiefs another team in their own time zone, and an intrastate rival (as noted upthread).

But more importantly, St. Louis is a much more comparably-sized TV market to San Diego than Seattle is.
Getting LA in exchange for SEA and SD is a much worse proposition for Fox than getting LA for STL and SD.
On the CBS side, upgrading half of the SF market for half of the LA market is fairly straightforward.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 20, 2015

The Social Chair said:
I'm not a fan of this Carson spot at all unless they make some sort of Blue Line extension. In the last decade LA County finally started investing in light rail but now both stadium options are in areas that can only be accessed by car (Carson, Inglewood)?

Farmers Field is still the way to go in my opinion (although Monday Night Football at 6pm would cause a nightmare on the 10 and 110)

I hate the Farmer's Field plan due to the fact that it has no parking. A large portion of the crowd would have to take LA's crapy public transportation to get to the stadium and it would only have a limited pay tailgating area. The Carson concept, on the other hand, has 18,000 parking places and plenty of space to Tailgate. Perhaps we are not the norm, but half the reason we have tickets now is the tailgating. The game is already better on TV and losing the other half of the fan experience that you get before and after the game would probably make us reconsider our tickets in light of what we are probably going to be asked to pay. Considering the demographics and culture of Raider fans, I think this is especially true of the Raiders part of this merger. Tailgating at the Q is not nearly as much of a "thing" in what I have seen in the few non Raiders Charger games I have attended, but that is purely a subjective judgement colored by thirty years of disdain for the entire fanbase.

Mugsys Jock said:
If the Chargers go to the NFC, swapping the Rams back to the AFC makes more sense than the Seahawks. It gives the Chiefs another team in their own time zone, and an intrastate rival (as noted upthread).

But more importantly, St. Louis is a much more comparably-sized TV market to San Diego than Seattle is.
Getting LA in exchange for SEA and SD is a much worse proposition for Fox than getting LA for STL and SD.
On the CBS side, upgrading half of the SF market for half of the LA market is fairly straightforward.

The weird thing about the Raiders is that I think they are already delivering a good portion of the LA market and not enough of the NorCal market to CBS. Part of why this makes sense is that are nearly as many Raiders fans in SoCal as in the northern part of the state and the only areas of the state that are large majority Raiders territory is in the central coast and central valley. A reason why this makes sense for these two teams is that the substantial number of Chargers' season ticket holders in the OC and IE and even North County San Diego are not sacrificing much in terms of drive time with the move to Carson. The Raiders also get a large portion of their current season ticket holder base from the Central part of the state and the ~2000 (that is number I was given) "Southwest airlines" season ticket holders from SoCal that have season tickets and fly/ drive up to Oakland for home games. Provided they are not priced out (like the 49ers did to many of their fans in the move to Santa Clara) by the new stadium, both of these teams will keep a significant portion of their season ticket holder base.

nattysez · Feb 20, 2015

Awesome Fossum said:
Who's bluffing? All three teams do have plans to finance their own stadium -- in Los Angeles.

It seems highly unlikely that all three teams are going to get approval from the owners to move to LA.

Also, "plans to finance" are meaningless. The Patriots had "plans" to move to Hartford. There were "plans" for a Megaplex in South Boston. The Davis family's only asset is the Raiders, so they'd have to mortgage the team in order to do this. Maybe that's entirely doable, but these kinds of threats happen all the time and turn into dust.

In any event, my main point is -- let them move. Football stadiums do just about zero for the local economy. To pay a red cent of taxpayer money for a football stadium is foolishness.

The Social Chair · Feb 20, 2015

Gunfighter 09 said:
I hate the Farmer's Field plan due to the fact that it has no parking. A large portion of the crowd would have to take LA's crapy public transportation to get to the stadium and it would only have a limited pay tailgating area. The Carson concept, on the other hand, has 18,000 parking places and plenty of space to Tailgate. Perhaps we are not the norm, but half the reason we have tickets now is the tailgating. The game is already better on TV and losing the other half of the fan experience that you get before and after the game would probably make us reconsider our tickets in light of what we are probably going to be asked to pay. Considering the demographics and culture of Raider fans, I think this is especially true of the Raiders part of this merger. Tailgating at the Q is not nearly as much of a "thing" in what I have seen in the few non Raiders Charger games I have attended, but that is purely a subjective judgement colored by thirty years of disdain for the entire fanbase.

DTLA shouldn't have tons of parking (the WE MUST HAVE PARKING in a dense city is nonsense that DTLA finally grew out of). The public transportation to DTLA is actually pretty great and will be even better once the regional connector is finished.

I don't think the tailgating issue should have any impact on where a stadium should be, and USC seems to manage having a nice tailgating experience within the city (and it's super easy to get there thanks to Expo line).

DennyDoyle'sBoil · Feb 20, 2015

The idea of a standing room grass area above the end zone seats on one end seems kind of cool. Almost a spring training sort of vibe. I don't get the grass parking spaces. They will look nice to start, but with 20 games a season, it could get messy.

I've been to the Galaxy in Carson, and it was pretty low stress getting in and out, although the area around the stadium is not particularly nice. I suppose 3x the number of people would make it more difficult, but it wasn't too bad.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 20, 2015

The Social Chair said:
DTLA shouldn't have tons of parking (the WE MUST HAVE PARKING in a dense city is nonsense that DTLA finally grew out of). The public transportation to DTLA is actually pretty great and will be even better once the regional connector is finished.

I don't think the tailgating issue should have any impact on where a stadium should be, and USC seems to manage having a nice tailgating experience within the city (and it's super easy to get there thanks to Expo line).

I could not agree more with the first point, but that is why downtown LA shouldn't have a football stadium when there are at least three sites outside of downtown (Inglewood, Carson and Diamond Bar) that offer the full NFL game experience. Our point of disagreement is on the second point. I think a significant enough portion of NFL fans who actually go to the games think that the experience in the parking lot before and after the game is the reason that it is worth paying the significant cost and losing the benefit of watching the game on on TV to go to the games.

nattysez said:
It seems highly unlikely that all three teams are going to get approval from the owners to move to LA.

Also, "plans to finance" are meaningless. The Patriots had "plans" to move to Hartford. There were "plans" for a Megaplex in South Boston. The Davis family's only asset is the Raiders, so they'd have to mortgage the team in order to do this. Maybe that's entirely doable, but these kinds of threats happen all the time and turn into dust.

In any event, my main point is -- let them move. Football stadiums do just about zero for the local economy. To pay a red cent of taxpayer money for a football stadium is foolishness.

Marc Davis has claimed to have $400M to contribute to a stadium. I am not sure if that includes the $200M the NFL offers as loans for stadium construction. The Davis Family owns somewhere between 43-51% of the Raiders and his mother is the only "General Partner", and billionaire hedgefund manager Paul Leff and two partners own somewhere around 20% of the team among the many "limited partners" that own part of the team. The Spanos' are not terribly wealthy either, but they do have more outside of the franchise money than the Davis family

http://www.chatsports.com/oakland-raiders/a/Mark-Davis-has-400-million-for-new-Oakland-stadium-local-blogger-claims-2-9856688

djbayko · Feb 20, 2015

DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
The idea of a standing room grass area above the end zone seats on one end seems kind of cool. Almost a spring training sort of vibe. I don't get the grass parking spaces. They will look nice to start, but with 20 games a season, it could get messy.

I've been to the Galaxy in Carson, and it was pretty low stress getting in and out, although the area around the stadium is not particularly nice. I suppose 3x the number of people would make it more difficult, but it wasn't too bad.

I don't know how, but it works at the Rose Bowl, which is in the same climate.

joeflah · Feb 21, 2015

Al Zarilla said:
Can they get Exxon Mobil to keep the fires down during games though? ~ 3.5 miles as the crow flies.

Every time I drive through LA, I swear I discover another 80,000+ city I'd never heard of. Carson is the latest, but this time I didn't have to go there to find out about it. Established in 1965 after the Watts riots. OK. California State University, Dominguez Hills (CSUDH) is there. Never heard of that either. LA is amazing. LA county has over one fourth of the state's 38 million+ people. Should be able to support two teams.

Originally From Dorchester, I worked in Carson from '76 to '85 for a company my uncle(Southie and Dorchester) owned. Very close to the proposed site. Have been to the Coliseum and Anaheim stadium for NFL games but never for the Pats. I'm liking this. Hope it comes to pass.

joeflah · Feb 21, 2015

The VELODROME where Olympic cyclists practice and compete is at CSUDH.

simplyeric · Feb 21, 2015

djbayko said:
I don't know how, but it works at the Rose Bowl, which is in the same climate.

If you plan for it and structure the soil correctly, it's not that hard. The big issue is drainage, which isn't generally a huge issue in that area anyway. They don't have the freeze thaw cycle that other places have, nor the "several days of November shitty rain" either.
Plastic grids set in the soil take care of pressure distribution from tires, and people to an extent, and limit the depth that wheel spin can dig out if it happened to get muddy. A well drained gravel base, with brick waste or other finer gravel just below the topsoil, and you're probably good, even if it dries out.
Maybe they'll use grey water from the stadium and tailgate ammenities to irrigate.

Bone Chips · Feb 22, 2015

Rant coming... With all the freaking money the NFL is printing there is no way - NO WAY - one cent of taxpayer money should ever be used to finance a new stadium. In fact, there should be a law against it. It's bad enough the NFL owners screw the players by not giving them enough of a piece of the pie. And it's bad enough that these same greedy owners skimp on key expenses like officiating. Now they want their stadiums paid for? Fuck that - with a capital F. I can't for the life of me understand why the American public tolerates such greed. All that brainwashing during school extolling the virtues of capitalism.

One Leg at a Time · Feb 23, 2015

Bone Chips said:
.... All that brainwashing during school extolling the virtues of capitalism.

I completely agree with you regarding public funding, but taxes paying for stadiums is pretty close to the opposite of capitalism.

Tony C · Feb 23, 2015

yep, must be all that brainwashing about state funding for public goods.....

nattysez · Feb 24, 2015

Looks like MLB and the A's are probably rooting for the Raiders to move.

“The A’s feel the Coliseum site is the best site, transportation-wise, and we’ve actually had a number of people look at it and they’ve all reached the same conclusion,” Manfred said.
Manfred alluded to the potential Raiders move from the Coliseum, saying, “I think that there is a lot of activity that could clarify the situation, and I’m not going to go beyond that, that I think could create an opportunity to move things along in Oakland. I think the A’s are willing to explore Oakland if they can find a workable arrangement and it’s always been our preference to keep clubs where they are.”
Manfred, like previous Commissioner Bud Selig, said the Coliseum is not a major-league facility.

Gunfighter 09 · Feb 27, 2015

AEG, the group behind the probably dead Farmer's Field project, is taking the Kroenke threat seriously:

In a bold move to undercut an NFL stadium at Hollywood Park, the sports and entertainment firm AEG commissioned a study by former Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge that found the Inglewood project would be a tempting target for terrorists and should not be built.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-stadium-gamesmanship-20150228-story.html

Devizier · Feb 28, 2015

Inglewood, always up to no good.

Seriously, though, who takes this report seriously? Maybe I'm overestimating the intelligence of our political class...

Gunfighter 09 · Apr 21, 2015

As you can see by the Twitter links below- the Carson City Council approved the stadium with no public vote necessary. Minus approval on the plan to finish the 20-30% of the environmental clean up remaining on the site (a former landfill) and plans for infrastructure improvements to be paid for by the club, they are officially "caught up" to Kroenke's Inglewood project. Seeing how the Carson CC approved the stadium, approval for the rest of the clean up is a foregone conclusion.

Nathan Fenno‏@nathanfenno

Just in: Carson City Council unanimously approves $1.7B stadium for #Chargers and #Raiders.

UTKevinAcee ‏@UTKevinAcee 8m
8 minutes ago
Well, surprise! Carson City Council approves #Chargers-#Raiders stadium proposal. No public vote.

Ben Bergman ‏@thebenbergman 28m28 minutes ago
Mayor of Carson: “There are two things we need in California, rain and football…and football is coming to Carson."

http://www.latimes.com/sports/nfl/la-sp-nfl-stadium-carson-20150422-story.html

arson officials acknowledge that much of the deal with the developers will be negotiated in the coming months. Tuesday’s vote is but one step.
The 26-page initiative petition pledged that no tax dollars would be used but contained few specifics about the stadium. Goldman Sachs would lead a 10-figure investment and personal seat licenses are projected to account for about half of the cost.

A city-funded report released over the weekend repeatedly noted the lack of detail: “As of the date of completion of this report, no official project design documents have been provided by the stadium developer.” That report also raised concerns about construction noise and finding another 16,000 off-site parking spots.
Though the report estimated that a one-team stadium could hurt Carson’s budget because the plan would imperil $1.4 million in federal housing funding, AECOM consultant David Stone said Tuesday that estimate was “too conservative,” and “we took that negative number out of our analysis” because the housing could easily be built elsewhere.
“I think this is a good deal for the city,” said Stone, who projected that a one-team stadium would boost city coffers by $800,000 in its first year of operation and $168 million total over 40 years.
The complex plan calls for a new city agency and includes a three-way land deal involving the 168-acre property’s current owner, Starwood Capital, the Chargers and Carson. The Chargers’ purchase of the land -- the site of years of failed developments that include a shopping mall and professional football stadium -- is scheduled to close at the end of the month.

dcmissle · Apr 22, 2015

"Personal seat licenses are projected to account for half of the cost ..."

That would be the most worrisome sentence if I were pulling for this to come together. They are really going to need the business community to step up.

I don't know that you can sell the PSL gambit anymore -- and I certainly don't know that you can sell it in a region of the country that has spectacular weather, a fuck ton of other things to do, and a demonstrated ability to live happily without the NFL for a good long time.

Yet PSLs seem to be crucial here. They sure as hell are getting no significant taxpayer funding, and the toll booth that the NFL erects for these moves will steer the cash into other owners' pockets.

Gunfighter 09 · Apr 22, 2015

Yep, I would be surprised if they got $850M (1/2 of $1.7B) for PSLs. The 49ers got a total of $312for their PSLs and that is coming off of a Super Bowl / NFC championship run and moving the team to Silicon valley. The Jets and Giants made $812M in PSL money in their new stadium, which must be what their projections are based on. I have to think the Raiders and Chargers are probably worth no more than $250-300M each in PSLs since they are moving to a market and neither team is known for attracting a higher end fan base. The Chargers were projecting no more than $150-200M in PSL in San Diego and the Raiders similar dollars in the East Bay, so even with the bigger LA corporate market, they are not going to hit NYC type PSL numbers.

So, already there is likely a $2-350M delta. I have to think the solution they have in mind is tapping into the G4 stadium loan money from the NFL. Teams are not supposed to used the G4 loans to help them build stadiums in new cities, but with a majority vote from the owners they can get an exception. There is also the likelihood that the NFL network will move into whatever LA stadium is built, so that is another funding source and reason to let the teams use G4 money.

http://www.sfgate.com/49ers/article/Levi-s-Stadium-The-1-3-billion-bet-5687409.php

and the sale of seat licenses - one-time fees ranging from $2,000 to $250,000 per seat that give people the right to purchase 49ers' season tickets. The licenses are budgeted to bring in $312 million.

Adjusted for inflation to 2016 levels, PSLs have generated as little as $28 million for the Seattle Seahawks and as much as $814 million for the New York Jets and Giants in New Jersey.Even Nashville, with a metro population less than half San Diego's and less than a third as many high-income households, sold $137 million in inflation-adjusted PSLs.

j-man · Apr 23, 2015

oakland needs to move to downtown LA or san antonio st louis wouild be a awful fit for the raiders

Raiders and Chargers add Disney CEO Bob Iger to help convince NFL for relocation (11/11)

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