Rangers to get Hamels

soxhop411

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“@Sullivan_Ranger: Rangers are getting close to getting Hamels…. Sources are say two sides are almost there to a deal…. Not tonight but Thursday”

“@Sullivan_Ranger: Still some details to be worked out but it looks like Rangers could win this Thursday”
 

Lowrielicious

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Marbleheader said:
Very good news for Red Sox fans, which is rare these days.
It's good news when the organisation we barrack for is denied the chance to do something stupid.
 
What a time to be alive.
 

sfip

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@jonmorosi: To recap: #Rangers to acquire Cole Hamels for OF Nick Williams, C Jorge Alfaro, RHP Jerad Eickhoff, and at least 1 more player. @FOXSports
 

mikeford

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sfip said:
@jonmorosi: To recap: #Rangers to acquire Cole Hamels for OF Nick Williams, C Jorge Alfaro, RHP Jerad Eickhoff, and at least 1 more player. @FOXSports
Quite a ways away from the Swihart, Betts + asking price there, RAJ
 

sfip

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From Todd Zolecki: "Sources: RHP Alec Asher is also in the Hamels deal. Can confirm OF Nick Williams is in the trade, too."
 

LuckyBen

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sfip said:
From Todd Zolecki: "Sources: RHP Alec Asher is also in the Hamels deal. Can confirm OF Nick Williams is in the trade, too."
So the Rangers 5(64), 6(69), 17, 29 prospects. Wonder what the money will look like.

Jake Thompson would be 4 (60). Not a bad haul.
 

Pilgrim

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Jake Thompson is in the deal too.  Looks like the Phillies actually ended up shaking someone down for a bunch of prospects.
 

Cellar-Door

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https://twitter.com/Evan_P_Grant/status/626583369502097408
 
So the 2,3,5 and 13th ranked prospects in their system plus 2 more players.
 

Plympton91

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Why is it good for the Red Sox that a great pitcher is coming to a team they compete with directly for wild card slots? Texas gave up a bunch of maybes, got the deal subsidized further, doesn't have to pick up the option unless it makes sense to do so, and keeps Their top 3 prospects. Don't see how that's not a win for them.
 

Hee Sox Choi

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Plympton91 said:
Why is it good for the Red Sox that a great pitcher is coming to a team they compete with directly for wild card slots? Texas gave up a bunch of maybes, got the deal subsidized further, doesn't have to pick up the option unless it makes sense to do so, and keeps Their top 3 prospects. Don't see how that's not a win for them.
You will in about 3 years.  Rangers got fleeced.  All to pay a guy market value (maybe less since the Phils ate some salary).  
 

TheYaz67

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Plympton91 said:
Why is it good for the Red Sox that a great pitcher is coming to a team they compete with directly for wild card slots? Texas gave up a bunch of maybes, got the deal subsidized further, doesn't have to pick up the option unless it makes sense to do so, and keeps Their top 3 prospects. Don't see how that's not a win for them.
 
Well, he didn't go to any of the teams we directly compete against in the Division, especially a deep pocketed team that covets good lefties, I will take that - and it was a 50/50 chance he would end up on an AL team, aka "a team we compete against for the Wild Card".
 

derekson

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Hee Sox Choi said:
You will in about 3 years.  Rangers got fleeced.  All to pay a guy market value (maybe less since the Phils ate some salary).  
 
 
I think Hamels will probably be a bit disappointing for the Rangers. He's faced pretty poor opposition overall in the NL East, and as a guy who allows lots of fly balls he's not really a great fit pitching in Arlington. 
 
So yeah, I wouldn't be especially shocked to see this trade wind up underwhelming for the Rangers in the end.
 

MakMan44

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Arlington has actually been suppressing HRs this season, per ESPN park factors.  
 

Cellar-Door

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Hee Sox Choi said:
You will in about 3 years.  Rangers got fleeced.  All to pay a guy market value (maybe less since the Phils ate some salary).  
They did, and took all of Harrison's deal, cuts Rangers' burden by about $34M.
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/626613709415256064
 

moondog80

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I think "good" refers to the notion that the Red Sox did not give up a similar group of prospects.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Eddie Jurak said:
What would a comparable Red Sox offer look like?
 
A.Craig (bad contract like M.Harrison's), C.Vazquez, Brian Johnson, and Margot for Hamels.  Such comparisons aren't perfect, of course, but there is some similarity in both models.
 
Overall a pretty good return for the Phillies.
 
I don't think it made sense for the Red Sox to trade for Hamels at this time; they are better off keeping their prospects and signging a guy like Zimmerman in the off-season.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What would a comparable Red Sox offer look like?
I don't have any special knowledge of TX's farm system but according to MLB's top 100 prospect list (http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2015?list=tex):

Thompson = 4 (Rangers top 30); 60 (top 100) – age 21, AA
Williams = 5/30; 64/100 – age 21 - AA
Alfaro = 6/30; 69/100 – age 22,AA
Eickhoff = 17/30
Asher = 29/30

Other than comparing Harrison and Craig as a salary dump, it doesn't really translate to the Red Sox because Portland doesn't have a lot of talent but maybe Margot, Owens, Travis, Light, and Allen Craig?

edit: or what FSB said but Vasquez is probably more valuable than anyone in the Rangers' package.
 

dcmissle

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Reckoning time. Our current dumpster fire could be fueled for 1000 years by offseason and early season posts reflecting great annoyance that the Phillies would not deal with the RS reasonably, that their leverage would decrease over time, that they were running an insane injury risk with Hamels and would end up regretting this day.

You don't sell low on an accomplished, top of rotation guy who is signed to a reasonable contract. And if the Rangers were fleeced, all it ever takes is one.

I don't regret that the RS did not deal for Hamels. I also am not a Philly fan. But the anti-Philly narrative on their approach to this was overdone from the get go.
 

moondog80

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Vasquez is probably more valuable than anyone in the Rangers' package.
 
Sort of like Michael Bishop, I think people are severely overrating Christian Vazquez.  He was never on anyone's top 100 prospects list, his major league career has been about 200 PA of 75 OPS+, and he's coming off major surgery.  Just because he's friends with Yaider Molina doesn't mean he will improve the way he did. And even that required patience Sox fans will never have; Yadier put up OPS+ of 78, 70, 53, 85, 96, 100, and 84 before finally blossoming into 124, 137, and 129.
 
There is zero chance Vazquez could have been the best or even second best piece of any package for Hamels (unless the first piece was Betts or something silly like that).
 

Jinhocho

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Williams has made monster gains this year, cutting his strikeouts and raising his walks without losing power. On midseason lists he is moving up and will definitely be to fifty next year on all of them.
 
From thedynastyguru.com, written by Jake Devereaux (http://thedynastyguru.com/2015/07/24/2015s-most-improved-prospect-nick-williams/)
 
 
Fast forward to 2015 and the still very young 21-year-old Williams is enjoying far and away the best year of his career.  He returned to the Texas league in 2015 again as one of the youngest players at AA but this time he brought with him a new game plan, one that he never had to employ before—patience.  Instead of swinging at every pitch Williams decided he wasn’t afraid to take a first pitch even if it meant getting behind in the count and most often his decision to lay off has worked in his favor.  His walk rate thus far has risen to 8.0% and most impressively his K rate has dropped to an astounding 18.6%.  This drop of 14.2% in his K rate has manifested itself in a batting average of .300 vs last year’s mark of .226...
The new found patience has not made any of his other tools play down either, as his 12 home runs and 10 stolen bases thus far have given him a great shot to eclipse his previous single year highs of 17 and 15—both of which came in different seasons.  When a player of Williams’s skill level is pushed to change the result can often be failure to adjust outside of their comfort zone but when successful it can propel the player to new heights.  Perhaps the hype and success of teammate Nomar Mazara was the push that Williams needed to make the change and let people know, “Hey guys, don’t forget about me.”
Folks around baseball have begun to take notice of the success Williams is having and fantasy owners need to do the same.  In Chris Crawford’s excellent series “Some Projection Left: Ask the Industry”, he polled baseball scouts and executives from across the game about their top five corner outfield prospects.  Williams drew consideration with other top players Like Mazara, Michael Conforto, Jesse Winker, and Aaron Judge just a year after not being considered close to that class.
When skill finally matches the hunger to improve and be the best you can be it tends to be a recipe for greatness.  Williams has shown me more than enough this year that I am fully back on the bandwagon and rooting for him to succeed.  The centerfielder may eventually be forced off the position to left-field where his arm would play up a bit but regardless of where he ends up his bat and leg speed should be a viable fantasy asset.  Of all the outfielders I mentioned before only Mazara has the higher upside so take a chance on Williams before the rest of your league catches on to his resurgence.
 
 
Interview with/about Williams posted on minorleagueball last night.  http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/7/29/9071211/interview-with-texas-rangers-prospect-nick-williams-philadelphia-phillies
 
Williams has gone from unranked to 26th on John Sickels midseason top 75 prospects.  He is also ahead of Jake Thompson, who slotted in at 53.  http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/7/12/8940113/top-75-mlb-prospects-mid-season-update
Williams is currently 64th on the MLB top 100 list, updated midseason.  Thompson is 60th. http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2015
 

JimD

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canderson said:
Good get for Philly. RA must've not been involved.
 
Not sure I agree.  Amaro was lambasted here and elsewhere for asking for too much - he didn't get the 'one or two ML-ready players' he was rumored to be asking for, but otherwise it does seem like he was right in not cutting his losses on Hamels this spring.
 

finnVT

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Thompson being included makes me a little more pro-Philly on this than I was on the initial reports that I saw which left him out.  From reading up on it, I'd basically put comps as something like:
 
Thompson ~ Owens  (pitchers near the bottom of BA's midseason top 50).
Williams ~ Margot  (OF near the middle of Sickels' midseason top 75.. williams is higher now based on a big first half, but margot has been higher until recently)
Alfaro ~ Brian Johnson?
Asher - Chavis (who really knows, both probably outside the top 200)
 
I think Owens, Margot, Johnson, Chavis is a deal I would've been fine with* if the Sox were in contention this year, but not as a purely for-the-future move.  I think it's also much closer to what most people here were saying was a reasonable package for Hamels than the ridiculous Betts/Swihart rumors.  Not to mention the $$ philly ended up swallowing (cash and harrison).
 
 
* not that philly would have preferred it to what they got.  i think it's a similar value package, but they may well prefer the specific players in the rangers' package 
 

moondog80

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Rudy Pemberton said:
Generational pitch framing skills, bro.
 
As measured over two months of playing time.  Remember that when he has a .600 OPS next year.