Real Fantasy AFC East Discussion and Breakdown Polls Closed. Congrats to the Bills.

Who wins the AFC East


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Eck'sSneakyCheese

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[tablegrid= AFC East Offense ]    Dolphins    Patriots    Jets    Bills QB  Christian Ponder  -10.8  Nick Foles  5.4  Geno Smith  -20.2  Ben Roethlisberger    12.1 QB2  Matt Barkley  -12.1                    Brian Hoyer  1.9 RB1  Trent Richardson  -3.7  Eddie Lacy  17.8  Marshawn Lynch  18.5  Ryan Matthews  3.5 RB2  Chris Ivory  -1.7  LaMichael James  -0.5  Danny Woodhead  17.1  Brandon Bolden  -3.6 RB3                             FB          Henry Hynoski  -0.6           FB/TE  Jordan Cameron   -6.0        Will Yeatman  0.4  Matt Spaeth  -4.2 TE  Dwayne Allen  IR  Ladarius Green  7.5  Dennis Pitta  -0.9  Kyle Rudolph  -0.1 WR1  Keenan Allen  17.0  Torrey Smith  1.5  Marques Colston  14.7  Julio Jones  7.9 WR2  Mohamed Sanu  -3.8  Tavon Austin  2.4  Jeremy Kerley  5.1  Antonio Brown  23.2 WR3  Andrew Hawkins  1.6  Da'Rick Rogers  -1.1  Markus Wheaton  -2.0  Riley Cooper  5.3 WR4  TJ Graham  -8.9  Marvin Jones  14.0  Armanti Edwards    -0.4           LT  Ryan Clady  IR  Terron Armstead  0.1  Andrew Whitworth  20.2  Nate Solder  25.6 LG  Travis Frederick  13.2  Jah Reid  0.9  David DeCastro  11.8  Kraig Urbik  7.6 C  Mike Pouncey  7.1  Jeremy Zuttah  -1.9  Brad Meester  -11.2  Alex Mack  17.8 RG  Larry Warford  22.8  Ryan Miller  DNP  Stephen Peterman  DNP  John Moffitt  0.1 RT  Zach Strief  26.5  Bobbie Massie  -1.7  Marcus Cannon  2.5  Todd Herremans  8.0 OL  Brandon Brooks  13.8  Matt Tobin  -0.5  Michael Bamiro  DNP  Erik Pears  -5.0 OL2          Alvin Bailey  -0.3                   [/tablegrid] 
[tablegrid= AFC East Defense/Special Teams ]    Dolphins    Patriots    Jets    Bills DE1  Michael Johnson  25.9  JJ Watt  111.6!  Kroy Biermann  -0.3  Jabaal Sheard  10.1 DE2  Cameron Heyward  11.3  Datone Jones  -7.6  John Abraham  8.8  Ray McDonald  11.1 DT/NT1  Star Lotulelei  15.1  Michael Brockers  0.2  Alan Branch  9.8  BJ Raji  -14.8 DT/NT2  Cam Thomas  -1.2  Kwame Geathers  -1.6  Kyle Love  -0.1  Matt Shaughnessy  -6.3 DL  Devon Still  -0.9                       OLB1  Clay Matthews  1.2  Akeem Ayers  9.0  Aldon Smith  28.7  Sean Weatherspoon  -9.1 OLB2  Victor Butler  IR  Bjoern Werner  -6.8  Calvin Pace  -1.4  Corey Lemonier  1.1 ILB/MLB1  Donald Butler  -11.8  Luke Kuechly    7.7  NaVorro Bowman  20.0  DeAndre Levy  8.7 ILB/MLB2  Karlos Dansby  13.3  Mychal Kendricks  -10.0  D'Qwell Jackson  -11.6  O'Brien Schofield  1.4 LB  Parys Haralson    2.5  Danny Trevathan  11.4  Steve Beauharnais  DNP  Martez Wilson    -1.6 LB                               CB1  Dee Milliner  -2.6  D. Rogers-Cromartie  13.0  Janoris Jenkins  -0.9  Jimmy Smith  3.9 CB2  Alfonzo Dennard  -2.8  Josh Robinson  -8.8  Eric Wright  1.9  Chris Cook  -8.0 CB3  Brandon Boykin  9.1  Jamell Fleming  DNP  Nolan Caroll  0.4  Brice McCain  -21.3 SS  DJ Swearinger  -7.1  TJ McDonald  -9.4  George Wilson  6.1  Matt Elam  -3.6 FS  Reggie Nelson  4.2  Harrison Smith  -4.6  Danieal Manning  -2.3  Nate Allen  -2.7 DB          Logan Ryan  1.9  Duron Harmon  1.2    Steve Gregory  2.1                    Jayron Hosley    0.3     K  Connor Barth  IR  Justin Tucker    33.6  Nick Novak  20.4  Shayne Graham  0.3 P  Pat McAfee  32.4  Ryan Allen  8.0  Steve Weatherford  10.0  Sam Koch           11.4   [/tablegrid]
 
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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I didn't see if we ever agreed on whether we'd include them or not, but the above chart includes the playoffs (if the player's team made it). 
 
I figured we'd just evaluate their entire body of work (and it was easier just to look at their overall scores), but if we want to just focus on the regular season, I can update the chart in a day or two.  Personally, I don't care, but whatever you guys feel is best and most consistent for all the teams. 
 

soxfan121

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SumnerH would like to remind you only two tables per post or the formatting gets fubar.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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 [tablegrid= AFC East Totals ]Pos  Dolphins    Patriots    Jets    Bills   O Total  55  43  55.6  100.1 D Total  56.2  106  60.6  -29 ST  32.4  41.6  30.4  11.7 Total  143  190  146.6  82.8 W Total  17.2  201.8  -51.4  181.2    [/tablegrid]
 
The W Total is the sum using the x10 QB multiplier and dividing the K and P by 10
Thanks to ElCab for putting all of these tables together.

 
http://imgur.com/a/qBvia This is the link to DoDM's posting of the PFF data sheets.
 
LINK TO DRAFT CHART This will bring you to the draft chart which has a link to the Players pages on Football Reference
 
I guess this is a decent place to start. 
 
PM'd Tito and ElCab. Red's mailbox was full.
 
 
soxfan121 said:
SumnerH would like to remind you only two tables per post or the formatting gets fubar.
 
Sorry about that.
 

soxfan121

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Are we allowed to comment? Because OMG is the Dolphins OL/RB situation making me giggle.
 

soxfan121

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phragle said:
 
That O line tho... Anyone could run behind that.
 
Anyone but three-yards-and-fall-down Trent.
 
If someone made the claim that Ivory ran for 1000 yards behind that line, I wouldn't argue. Trent probably turned in something like 250 carries, 600 yards. 
 

Titoschew

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Thanks for putting this together, Eck.
 
I think the Bills offense can probably hang pretty well against most anyone in today's NFL.  Provided Ben gets the time behind what is at least a moderately above average o-line, he has two legit #1 WR's to go to in Jones and Brown.  The emergence of Cooper is a pleasant surprise, though his number likely is tamped down by the Eagles system getting a majority of the credit for their success. He can line up outside, leaving Brown to roam the slot, or move outside in some formations.  Mathews at RB is little more than average, though a season with Starks as the back up might improve our standing there.  I'd like to think the presence of others in this offense would open things up more for Rudolph.
 
The defense, on the other hand, needs to be playing with a lead, because I would guess they'd be the definition of leaky.  But, I think this offense can provide that opportunity in most cases.  The front seven has the ability to be good with solid pieces in Sheard, McDonald, Weatherspoon and Levy.  I think with that core plus some of Raji, that's a defense that can stop the run and get some pressure in the backfield, if not achieving the sacks.  Tough to defend a secondary with the highest rated safety being Steve Gregory.  That being said, we're banking disrupting the pass game with pressure and not shut down corners.  Lots of zone schemes with this bunch.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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soxfan121 said:
 
Anyone but three-yards-and-fall-down Trent.
 
If someone made the claim that Ivory ran for 1000 yards behind that line, I wouldn't argue. Trent probably turned in something like 250 carries, 600 yards. 
 
It's pretty comical to see how my OL and RB situation turned out. I'd have to imagine Trent would've been a little bit better, but damn he's making me look bad. I can't believe I took him in the 3rd round. What an awful pick that was. Combine that with my QB situation and I don't know where the points are coming from. 
 
I'll give a more detailed breakdown of my team, the Dolphins, in a later post, but just want to touch base on a few things:

1. My QB's are awful. I need Johnny Football and I need him now.
2. My OL/DL are awesome. Studs everywhere, and that doesn't even include my 1st round pick (Clady) who was lost for the season in week 2. These big uglies kept us in some games this year. 
3. The secondary was too young. I expected too much from Milliner and Dennard. Teams would've put up some points on us this year, but I like where my secondary is headed. 
4. I went really young after missing out on a good QB and the rookies were hit (K. Allen, Frederick, Warford, Lotulelei) or miss (Barkley, Milliner, Swearinger). I'm hoping Milliner and Swearinger take a step forward to help solidify my secondary while the first four look like they'll be key building blocks going forward. 
 
I think I'm a 5 or 6 win team, at best, but need to look over the other divisions a little more closely to get a better idea of where I think I fall. In terms of the AFC East, I'd say it's between me and the Jets in a race to the bottom. 
 

RedOctober3829

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QB: as bad as you can expect.  I need to make a change from Geno Smith.
RB: Lynch/Woodhead is one of the best combos in the league. 
FB/TE: Pitta came back from injury way late so I really didn't have a good TE the entire season.  I should improve there just by having him healthy for an entire season.
WR: Colston/Kerley are a good combo but Wheaton and Armani Edwards were disappointing.
OL: My left side of Whitworth and DeCastro is as good as anybody's, but the rest of the line was a disaster.  Peterman didn't even play and Brad Meester was one of the worst linemen in the league.
DL: My tackles were very good, but the ends were really bad.  I'd look to upgrade there.
LB: The strength of my team.  Aldon Smith and NaVorro Bowman anchor a solid group.  Jackson didn't have a good year, but he'll bounce back.
DBs: Solid, but not outstanding group. 
 
Special teams were very good too with Novak and Weatherford.
 
Overall, Geno Smith and the OL killed me.  The W category goes to show you that the most important position is the QB.  I probably win 5-6 games at most with that QB. 
 

Super Nomario

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#NFL1000 rankings:
QBs:
Ponder, MIA - 32nd / 65
Barkley, MIA - 57th
Foles, NE - 14th
Smith, NYJ - 49th
Roethlisberger, BUF - 10th
Hoyer, BUF - 25th
 
LTs:
Clady, MIA - Not rated
Armstead, NE - NR
Whitworth, NYJ - 12th
Solder, BUF - 7th
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I've already talked up my team to death in other threads so I'll just do a brief rundown. 
 
QB - Say what you want, Foles can throw the ball and he showed great decision making and the ability to extend plays with his mobility. 
 
RB - Eddie Lacy was every bit the workhorse I'd thought he'd be. James would have excelled in this offense as a change of pace back. He was also a valuable kick returner.
 
FB - Hynoski was lost for the year early. I don't think the lack of him playing hurt me too much.
 
WR - I have four legitimate pass catchers in Torrey Smith, Tavon Austin, Da'rick Rogers and Marvin Jones. A spread attack with this crew would be deadly. Austin was also a valuable punt returner.
 
TE - Ladarius Green adds another great receiver to the squad. Great redzone target with some big play making ability.
 
OL - Nobody was a world beater, but no one was bad enough to be a black hole either. Bailey and Armstead improved a lot as the year went along. Quick passes and zone blocking.
 
DL - JJ Motherfuckin Watt. Brockers was hurt by his pass rush grade. Datone Jones was a little disappointing but he's young and should improve next year. Unfortunately for me (and Indy) Werner didn't look great as an OLB so I likely would have rotated him in with Jones.
 
LB - Kuechly, Kendricks and Trevathan are a ridiculous trio. Keuchly is one of the best MLBers in the game and the QB of my defense. I don't care what PFF says Kendricks is a machine. Trevathan was rangy and great in coverage. Add Ayers to the mix who was quietly solid and this linebacking crew is something special.
 
CB - DRC was lockdown and Logan Ryan would be an adequate #2. Robinson had some issues playing outside but he would've been fine as my Nickel. Fleming. Alas. Oklahoma CB's......
 
S - TJ McDonald apparently struggled against the run but was ok in coverage which is the exact opposite of his scouting report. Didn't see enough of him to make a case either way. Rating Harrison Smith that low even though he got hurt is a crime. The kid is a great player and would have no doubt finished the year as a top safety in the league.
 
ST - Tucker and Allen are both great talents. Tucker is accurate and has a big leg. Allen had a very solid year replacing what's his name.
 
Overall, I think I built an extremely solid foundation for a great team for years to come. My supplemental draft was awesome. As far as the division goes, it looks like it comes down to me and the Bills. I think his offense would give my defense some issues, but my offense would destroy his defense. He doesn't have anyone that can cover my wideouts. Either way it would be a fun game to watch.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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One reminder guys is that injuries count - for example, the Rapistburger to Julio Jones connection looks potentially lethal, but was only relevant for five games this year due to JJ's injury.
 

RhaegarTharen

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FWIW, Kendrick's PFF scores are bad mostly because they rated him horribly in the first 4 games (he was scored a whopping -17.6 in those games).   This may be one of those cases where the YE score doesn't necessarily show the full story. 
 

soxfan121

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As I said in the other East thread, I think I can have opinions on the offenses of teams without much explanation of their philosophy or scheme. In a lot of cases, it's obvious and if its important, I figure someone will mention it. 
 
But I think it is REALLY hard to judge defenses without knowing what kind of formation/philosophy/scheme you were trying for and what you ended up with in the end. I'm far more interested in how the owner thinks the pieces fit together than in the quality of the individual pieces. 
 
TIA.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Good point, SF121. 
 
The ElCab Dolphins ran a 3-4 base defense but I would imagine we'd spend a significant amount of time in a 3-3-5 nickel, subbing out Boykin for Haralson. 
 
 
                                                                          C. Heyward     S. Lotulelei     M. Johnson
                                                            P. Haralson          K. Dansby        D. Butler         C. Matthews
        A. Dennard    B. Boykin                                                                                                                             D. Milliner
 
                                                                             R. Nelson                   DJ Swearinger
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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The Smokescreen (c)
 
The Patriots run a ridiculously complicated defense that would dizzy even Peyton Manning. The rush could come from anyone or anywhere. It's based on misdirection, trickery, smoke and mirrors. ;)   
 
Seriously though, the base is nothing more than a hybrid 3-4/4-3 under but it will flash multiple fronts depending on the offensive alignment.
 
A good quote I found from Ray Horton who implements a similar scheme
 


"That's the most important thing to me – what do we look like, not what we line up in. We may be a 3-4 on one snap. We may be a 4-3 on another snap. I guarantee you we'll be a 5-2 sometimes, and we'll be a 4-4 sometimes. We are a multi-front, attacking defense, and that's the most important thing."
 
That's the name of our game. Attack. In the Nickel, Robinson subs in for Ayers. In a 4-3 look I can have Werner or Ayers line up Next to Watt or next to Jones. 
 
Jones/Werner    Brockers/Geathers    JJ Watt​
 ​
Trevathan                                Kuechly                           Kendricks                            Ayers/Robinson​
 ​
DRC                                                                                                                                                              Ryan​
 ​
                      McDonald​
 ​
Smith​
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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So I voted.
 
I chose that Patriots to take home the AFC East.  I thought the Bills were a close 2nd, but their defense just wasn't strong enough and would end up costing them some games.
 
I also picked my team, the Dolphins, to finish last but that's also a pretty close call. The Jets being QB'd by Geno are pretty bad too, but I thought they had a much stronger RB tanden to help offset his rookie struggles and I like their LB's led by Smith and Bowman. I like my defense better overall, but having such a young secondary is going to lead to my team giving up a ton of points to anyone with a decent passing game. 
 

Titoschew

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I voted....for myself (Bills).  I think it's a toss up between the Bills and Pats and while I agree with Elcab about my defense, I think in H2H games with the Pats, I have the pieces to win those games.  My o-line is well equipped to keep Watt from taking over the game, so we should be able to score, even w/out Julio.  If there is one thing my defense could probably do a fair job at, it's stopping the run.  Though my answers for Smith, Jones and an emerging Green would be far from answers in most cases.
 
In toss ups, I vote for myself.   :fonz:
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I voted for the Bills to win. While Foles had a breakout year, the Patriots' offensive line is just so terrible - only one player who played significant snaps this year - that there's no way I can see that offense doing anything and in h-2-h matchups probably couldn't exploit the Bills' biggest weakness, in the secondary.

I went with Jets for cellar dweller but that one is pretty close and my hatred for Geno may be coloring my judgement.
 

Super Nomario

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I think the Bills clearly have the best O in the division, with a solid QB, some good receiving options even with Jones' injury, and what I'm guessing will probably be one of the complete OLs in the league. The D is below-average, but I don't see a great D in the division. I love a lot of NE's pieces, but the O-line and run D look weak. With all the young talent, they're set up well for 2014 and beyond, but I think they're probably a year away.
 
At the bottom, I think the Dolphins' front four keeps them in games, and they get enough out of the very good OL and a couple receiving pieces (Allen, Cameron) to keep them out of the basement. That leaves the Jets, who had all their QB eggs in the Geno basket and some injury issues, as the #4 squad.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I voted for the Patriots because the Bills offense is one note, Roethlisberger to Brown, with no real run game. I think it would be fairly easy to shut down. While i can see why some people would be down on my o-line, as far as this exercise goes, my scheme would play to the fact that they all have great agility, well, except Bailey anyway. No one in the division has an answer for my skill players or the ability to shut down everyone on my offense. Watt makes everyone on my defense better.
 
The bottom, I went with the Fins mostly because of the Jets run game, although give the Fins a decent QB and they're probably fighting for the division.
 

soxfan121

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I went Bills for the win, but it was close and I think some of the arguments above describe why very eloquently. 
 
And I went Jets at the bottom, as I think the Dolphins OL was so good that their running game and passing game got a large boost that made the "talent" look better than it does in the numbers. 
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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I voted Patriots for the division.
 
Very close. Even with a terrible OL I think their offense could compete. I'd give the Bills the edge on offense but not by a wide margin (would be wide if Julio didn't go down). But I do think the Pats have the much better D. This almost came down to a coin flip but with the large advantage in Special Teams, I gave them the edge. 
 
I voted Jets to lose the division. 
 
Both these teams are pretty bad. Geno Smith was a turnover machine and I don't see Lynch and Woodhead getting as much space to run with that OL. I gave the Jets the advantage on O but I liked the Dolphins D a little bit more. Again a coin flip to me and when it comes down to bad teams some times a dominant punter is the difference maker. 
 

RhaegarTharen

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Voted for the Bills to win, mostly on the strength of their O-line (Pats were a very close second). 
 
Voted for the Fins for last, having plenty of experience watching Ponder - I think they're a more complete team, but I think the Jets are actually better equipped to steal a few wins, whereas I think the Dolphins would have lose more close games.  For all his faults, Geno Smith is capable of leading that team to a couple miraculous wins.  I don't think I can say the same of Ponder - he's pretty reliably below average every time.  PFF game scores seem to agree - Smith has a bunch of shitty games, but his "good" games are better than Ponder's are.  I do think that the Fins are much closer to turning it around. 
 

DaughtersofDougMirabelli

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sleepyjose03 said:
Voted for the Bills to win, mostly on the strength of their O-line (Pats were a very close second). 
 
Voted for the Fins for last, having plenty of experience watching Ponder - I think they're a more complete team, but I think the Jets are actually better equipped to steal a few wins, whereas I think the Dolphins would have lose more close games.  For all his faults, Geno Smith is capable of leading that team to a couple miraculous wins.  I don't think I can say the same of Ponder - he's pretty reliably below average every time.  PFF game scores seem to agree - Smith has a bunch of shitty games, but his "good" games are better than Ponder's are.  I do think that the Fins are much closer to turning it around. 
 
Yeah after I had already voted and I was doing a quick writeup this was my exact thought. Geno will lose you plently of games but he will squeeze out a few Ws. I think Ponder is just consistently bad. 
 

Phragle

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The Bills finally win the East. Eck built a decent team but Foles is a system QB that's a product of Kelly, play action with McCoy, and screen passes. The PA won't work and he won't have any time to throw deep. Tito built a good all-around team lead by a proven veteran QB. There are no gaping holes on his team. 
 
I think the Jets are last. The Dolphins are limited by Ponder, but they have a good ground game and defense other than Dee Milliner. The Jets are a bit of a mess with a QB that thinks he's much better than he is.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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phragle said:
The Bills finally win the East. Eck built a decent team but Foles is a system QB that's a product of Kelly, play action with McCoy, and screen passes. The PA won't work and he won't have any time to throw deep. Tito built a good all-around team lead by a proven veteran QB. There are no gaping holes on his team. 
 
I think the Jets are last. The Dolphins are limited by Ponder, but they have a good ground game and defense other than Dee Milliner. The Jets are a bit of a mess with a QB that thinks he's much better than he is.
 
It takes timing, a quick release and accuracy to complete a successful screen. That article is more PFF noise. This: 


So those 80-yard screens that look great on the stat sheet will generally garner the same 0-grade for the QB as a 4-yard loss on the exact same play, yet again one of the many reasons why raw stats can often mislead.
is so full of horseshit I'm surprised they could print it. What they're trying to say is that throwing the ball in the right place at the right time to allow the receiver to make a play is graded the same as throwing to a guy when the blocking has already broken down or the ball is off target and kills any hope of yards after the completion. Dumb.
 
The proven vet Roethlisberger ranks 6th on that bullshit list by the way.
 
Foles has great decision making, pocket awareness and a strong arm. In this exercise he has more depth at receiver than in real life. If he wants to throw screens to Smith and Austin all day then so be it. Your assumption that play action won't work is also laughable.
 
The bolded line though... Just, wow.
 

Dgilpin

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
Foles has great decision making, pocket awareness and a strong arm. In this exercise he has more depth at receiver than in real life. If he wants to throw screens to Smith and Austin all day then so be it. Your assumption that play action won't work is also laughable.
 
Huh? In real life Foles had Jackson(PFF 18.8), Riley Cooper(PFF 5.3), and McCoy (PFF 31.8). No offense but that skill position talent in real life provides Foles with a much better situation than your team. Especially because those are all guys who all you have to to do is get them the ball in space, I don't think Foles demonstrated anything last year that would have said he'd be better off launching deep balls to Torrey Smith. Maybe Tavon Austin was under utilized because of the Rams QB situation but he was also a rookie WR, so I also doubt he would have put up huge numbers.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Dgilpin said:
 
Huh? In real life Foles had Jackson(PFF 18.8), Riley Cooper(PFF 5.3), and McCoy (PFF 31.8). No offense but that skill position talent in real life provides Foles with a much better situation than your team. Especially because those are all guys who all you have to to do is get them the ball in space, I don't think Foles demonstrated anything last year that would have said he'd be better off launching deep balls to Torrey Smith. Maybe Tavon Austin was under utilized because of the Rams QB situation but he was also a rookie WR, so I also doubt he would have put up huge numbers.
 
He was really good at throwing the deep ball last year, so I'm not sure what you mean. And Torrey proved to be more than a strictly go route guy.
 
I said depth at receiver. Other than RB, the talent level isn't that different. I was just pointing out he had more consistent options here as far as wideouts go. Overall, including TE's and RB's his real world team was better, but not by enough to make his level of play worse.
 

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Solder was near the bottom in sacks allowed (10) and Herremans was a sieve against the pass rush to the tune of 10 hits and 34 hurries while Macks PFF score was based on him being a much better run blocker... 
 
 
 
 
So, I'd think it's safe to say that the voting is done then? Should we wrap this up? I know the bottom is a close vote but interest seems to have disappeared.
 

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sleepyjose03 said:
17 votes is pretty pathetic, but we do have 7 other divisions to get through.....
I think moving this to a separate subform may have taken these out of the limelight a bit
 

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Dgilpin said:
I think moving this to a separate subform may have taken these out of the limelight a bit
 
I wouldn't trust most of the people that don't read this forum. Last thing we want is more emphasis on contextless PFF numbers.
 
Like would a vote from Soxhop411 help, or some lurker? Fuck that IMO.
 

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phragle said:
 
I wouldn't trust most of the people that don't read this forum. Last thing we want is more emphasis on contextless PFF numbers.
 
Like would a vote from Soxhop411 help, or some lurker? Fuck that IMO.
No I agree with you , I was just saying that's probably the reason for the lower vote count
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with just leaving these polls up for a while, even as the analysis moves on to other divisions.
 
OK, cool.
 
Anyone want to discuss how that Bills o-line stops my pass rush?
 

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
OK, cool.
 
Anyone want to discuss how that Bills o-line stops my pass rush?
They double-team J.J. Watt? He probably still makes a few plays, but I don't see anyone else you have who can consistently win rushing the passer.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Super Nomario said:
They double-team J.J. Watt? He probably still makes a few plays, but I don't see anyone else you have who can consistently win rushing the passer.
 
Kendricks, Ayers, Jones and/or Werner would all get their chances. Hell, if you leave Brockers one on one he's going to make some plays too. 
 

Super Nomario

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Eck'sSneakyCheese said:
 
Kendricks, Ayers, Jones and/or Werner would all get their chances. Hell, if you leave Brockers one on one he's going to make some plays too. 
Brockers had a pretty good year. You can blitz Kendricks or Ayers, but that's taking a guy out of coverage for you.
 
As for Jones and Werner ... they were high draft picks, and maybe they'll be good next year or in a couple years, but they've proven almost nothing in the NFL. They had trouble cracking the lineups of two pretty bad defenses. You went very rookie-heavy in the draft, and that paid off with some of the players contributing right away (Lacy, Ryan, Allen), but we're not rating on potential here. It seems like in your mind guys like Austin, Armstead, Jones, Werner, Rogers, etc. are already solid contributors instead of the talented-but-flawed players they were as rookies.
 
Watt is the best defensive player in football. The rest of your pass rush is not that impressive, IMO, and I think the Bills would be able to stop it for the most part.