So will this move herald a shift in FA philosophy? Will we tender longer contracts now for pitchers?
This is my thinking as well, and was even before this announcement. Why would a GM teetering on the edge hire a guy to second guess what is going on in baseball ops?tbb345 said:Thinking about it I have to agree with others here. I think this DiPoto move was pre emptive. Would be shocked if he is not the new GM
It's not so much the ring as the top-rated farm system. There are only so many of these jobs, so I'm not saying he'll necessarily be a GM somewhere else in six months, but he'll get another shot and won't have to wait nearly as long as Dan Duquette to get it.DLew On Roids said:Cherington could probably walk into a scouting director job next year, but he's not going to be a shoo-in for a GM job by any means. OK, he's got a ring, but we aren't exactly talking about a guy with Brian Sabean's track record.
Absolutely agree.Sox and Rocks said:I have a hard time believing those reports. Cherrington deciding to bring in dipoto to look over his shoulder would be job suicide. I think the dipoto hire came from elsewhere and now there is an even better chance he stays
saintnick912 said:Is this a lateral move for Dombrowski? Hopefully we don't get caught up in some lengthy compensation drama.
Detroit let him gosaintnick912 said:Is this a lateral move for Dombrowski? Hopefully we don't get caught up in some lengthy compensation drama.
saintnick912 said:Is this a lateral move for Dombrowski? Hopefully we don't get caught up in some lengthy compensation drama.
Will people care if it means getting a two-time MVP and a Cy Young winner?soxhop411 said:So does this mean our farm system is now trade chips?
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
Uhh..this is kind of what Dombrowski does, isn't it? I mean, Detroit had the worst farm system in the majors, in Keith Law's rankings. Farm systems don't appear to have been a priority, so at least we'll get a lot to talk about when he starts shipping prospects out.
Not exactly jumping for excitement here. It's fair to say Cherington is leaving Dombrowski with an organization that for all its warts, is in a better position than what Dombrowski bequeathed to Avila in Detroit. He wouldn't have been my choice, but can't argue the fact that the chances of being competitive every year may be better, even if the farm system and the bullpen will not be.
Sampo Gida said:Can't say I am surprised Larry and now Ben are gone. In business you just don't survive such an awful year like this.
saintnick912 said:Is this a lateral move for Dombrowski? Hopefully we don't get caught up in some lengthy compensation drama.
nvalvo said:
Dombrowski has already been released from his contract.
bosockboy said:I doubt Farrell is back as others have stated, so let the managerial dot-connecting commence. The obvious one is Leyland.
So Ben, if mistakes are made during your tenure if I hire you today, will you blame me for those?patinorange said:John Henry made me do it.
adam42381 said:I'm happy that they're making a move, but really don't want Wren taking over for Ben. Holding out hopes, however slim, for Beane.
Savin Hillbilly said:BTW, I had never actually looked at a picture of Dombrowski till tonight. Let the Mister Rogers era commence!
Goodspeed is the name.Harry Hooper said:
I was thinking of the guy who ran the general store on "The Waltons."
I agree with you that the farm system can provide some tantalizing trade chips, but if the plan involves trading much of the lower level talent, doesn't that weaken the entire organization in the long term?TheYellowDart5 said:For everyone worried about Dombrowski emptying the farm system: If anything, this organization seems ripe for a harvest (so to speak). The Red Sox are loaded with high-upside, low-minors prospects with a barren upper part of the system and nothing in the way of impact pitching any time soon. The likes of Devers, Guerra and Margot are full of potential, but this winter would seem like a golden opportunity to move them to acquire what the major league team needs most: A true ace and bullpen help.
I have to imagine that Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart and Moncada remain untouchable. But this seems as good a time as any to cash in some of those potential lottery tickets, and if Dombrowski's track record proves anything, it's that he's very adept at turning prospects into productive major leaguers.
Agree. Ben was a bit of a hoarder. I don't necessarily want a 180 shift to move the guys you mentioned necessarily, but many of the arms on Ben's watch became overripe before they could be moved for useful major league ready pieces (that big clump of guys at the end of last year, for example). I think he's been too conservative in that regard.TheYellowDart5 said:For everyone worried about Dombrowski emptying the farm system: If anything, this organization seems ripe for a harvest (so to speak). The Red Sox are loaded with high-upside, low-minors prospects with a barren upper part of the system and nothing in the way of impact pitching any time soon. The likes of Devers, Guerra and Margot are full of potential, but this winter would seem like a golden opportunity to move them to acquire what the major league team needs most: A true ace and bullpen help.
I have to imagine that Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart and Moncada remain untouchable. But this seems as good a time as any to cash in some of those potential lottery tickets, and if Dombrowski's track record proves anything, it's that he's very adept at turning prospects into productive major leaguers.
Marbleheader said:"... many in baseball don’t see this as a great fit, given the Red Sox place atop the mountain of believers in sabermetrics — Bill James is even on the payroll — and Dombrowski’s more traditional views in analyzing a player’s value."
http://detne.ws/1NaYtOA
Sampo Gida said:Can't say I am surprised Larry and now Ben are gone. In business you just don't survive such an awful year like this. Lost a lot of money for the team and put them in a hard position for the next couple of years. Maybe some of the moves were just bad luck, but many of them had you shaking your head at the time they were made. Rolling the dice is fine when you win, but when you lose on the bosses coin, you are going to pay.
Not a fan of DD, he has made some questionable moves the past couple of years, but maybe they were forced on him by the owners mandate to win now. Fresh start for him if JWH will let him write down some of the non-performing assets he has acquired.
I see an older Napoleon Dynamitevadertime said:
According to http://www.dumb.com/celebritytwin/ his 3 celebrity look-a-likes are Fred Savage, Al Sharpton (?), and Alek Wek (??) I don't think its very accurate.
Danny_Darwin said:Will people care if it means getting a two-time MVP and a Cy Young winner?
grimshaw said:Agree. Ben was a bit of a hoarder.
staz said:Although the results are there for all to see, it just seems strange that a career executive would have a blind spot in a narrow area like building a bullpen. It's like saying your mechanic can swap out a transmission, but can't change out brake pads to save himself.
maufman said:It's not so much the ring as the top-rated farm system. There are only so many of these jobs, so I'm not saying he'll necessarily be a GM somewhere else in six months, but he'll get another shot and won't have to wait nearly as long as Dan Duquette to get it.
FanSinceBoggs said:
Interesting. This is a concern. It's kind of interesting that Henry would go in this direction, an admitted admirer of Bill James. Maybe Cherington and the sabermetric group blew so many decisions that Henry is having second thoughts? Or maybe he wants greater balance? I would like to see the Red Sox hire Dipoto to keep that sabermetric edge.
TheYellowDart5 said:For everyone worried about Dombrowski emptying the farm system: If anything, this organization seems ripe for a harvest (so to speak). The Red Sox are loaded with high-upside, low-minors prospects with a barren upper part of the system and nothing in the way of impact pitching any time soon. The likes of Devers, Guerra and Margot are full of potential, but this winter would seem like a golden opportunity to move them to acquire what the major league team needs most: A true ace and bullpen help.
I have to imagine that Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart and Moncada remain untouchable. But this seems as good a time as any to cash in some of those potential lottery tickets, and if Dombrowski's track record proves anything, it's that he's very adept at turning prospects into productive major leaguers.
patinorange said:John Henry made me do it.
moondog80 said:Is there anyone here who would trade Pablo and Ramirez and their contracts for those of Cabrera and Verlander?
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Devers and Margot are consensus top 25 prospects in all of baseball. They aren't lotto tickets. I'll be disappointed if Moncada, Devers or Espinoza get traded. Margot seems redundant given how close he is to the majors and how many other CF options the club has right now, both ahead of him and behind. He's probably the best prospect they should move. Whether Dombrowski pushes to move anyone better than that is obviously up for debate, but I'll be every upset if those three get touched.
Definitely agree with this--especially in regards to Moncada and Espinoza. I'd also add Benintendi to the list, although SSS and all.
rlsb said:Goodspeed is the name.
That would be Ike Godsey.rlsb said:Goodspeed is the name.
yecul said:Anyone taking over this team will look like a genius when the fruit ripens. The key thing to watch is how aggressive they are to lock in a winner. Easy to see trading future for now to satiate the masses.
jsinger121 said:I would in a heartbeat. I think Hanley and Pablo are both lazy players who are bad for team chemistry and want them gone no matter what.
The difference is, what did the core of the Red Sox look like after 2012? And even with Gonzalez, Beckett, and Crawford gone, the core was damn good.johnnywayback said:
Exactly. And it's not just Dombrowski's track record that has me concerned. Either: 1) The choice was always between Cherington as top guy or Cherington gone and they chose the latter, or 2) Cherington was open to a guy above him who shared a similar philosophy. This doesn't seem like a change in tactics but rather a change in strategic approach, and while you can certainly argue with Cherington's tactical maneuvers, I liked the strategic approach.
Obviously, we'll have to wait and see, but this is a pretty strong signal to me that the ownership philosophy has taken a turn for the, um, less analytical. And the first manifestation of that, given Dombrowski's record, may well be the razing of our development machine and its fruits.
Really glad this wasn't true after 2012.