Round 2: Celtics vs. Bucks

Who wins?


  • Total voters
    126
  • Poll closed .

amarshal2

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The three point shooting was the difference. The Celtics were outscored 60-30 from behind the arc. It's not just that the Bucks were shooting 50% from 3 until the benches came in, it's that they were shooting 50% from 3 at super high volume. They kept making 3's at a high rate and thus kept taking a higher share of their shots from 3 and continued to make them. The Bucks shot 8 more 3's than the Celtics in G1 but due to the C's edge in efficiency they both made 13. In G2 they shot 19 more 3's and made 10 more.

The three point shooting had other effects as well. The Celtics started to panic when the Bucks went on that run and lost their focus. They started turning the ball over and taking bad shots. They lost their turn over and FG% edge in a flash and the game was lost. They probably were going to lose anyway with the shooting being what it was but they made it look a lot worse when they stopped executing their game plan.

The Celtics shouldn't over react because that performance by the Bucks and by Irving are unlikely to be repeated consistently. There are of course some adjustments to be made -- whoever is guarding Middleton needs to stay home and not leave him wide open. Tatum needs to figure something out as well. But generally speaking the take-away is to stay focused on making the right play with a sense of urgency. They need to be prepared to weather the mental ups and downs that come with the high volume three point shooting of the Bucks. They did it well Sunday, not so well tonight.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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The three point shooting was the difference. The Celtics were outscored 60-30 from behind the arc. It's not just that the Bucks were shooting 50% from 3 until the benches came in, it's that they were shooting 50% from 3 at super high volume. They kept making 3's at a high rate and thus kept taking a higher share of their shots from 3 and continued to make them. The Bucks shot 8 more 3's than the Celtics in G1 but due to the C's edge in efficiency they both made 13. In G2 they shot 19 more 3's and made 10 more.

The three point shooting had other effects as well. The Celtics started to panic when the Bucks went on that run and lost their focus. They started turning the ball over and taking bad shots. They lost their turn over and FG% edge in a flash and the game was lost. They probably were going to lose anyway with the shooting being what it was but they made it look a lot worse when they stopped executing their game plan.

The Celtics shouldn't over react because that performance by the Bucks and by Irving are unlikely to be repeated consistently. There are of course some adjustments to be made -- whoever is guarding Middleton needs to stay home and not leave him wide open. Tatum needs to figure something out as well. But generally speaking the take-away is to stay focused on making the right play with a sense of urgency. They need to be prepared to weather the mental ups and downs that come with the high volume three point shooting of the Bucks. They did it well Sunday, not so well tonight.
Over the final 7 minutes of the 3Q and the first couple minutes of the 4Q the Bucks lead went from 74-71 to 105-75. If you take away the 9 points made from 3's during these 10 minutes of play the Bucks would still have expanded the lead to 21 points. It was far from a barrage of 3's that led to the 31-4 run as the Bucks scored 12 from the line during this stretch along with 5 2-pt FG's......while we scored 4 points in nearly a full quarter of basketball.
 

kazuneko

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Outside of that little 28-2 run, it was a pretty even game.
Sadly the dreaded regular season Celtics have emerged in the playoffs after all. It pains me to remember, but throughout the season, whenever the Cs went on a good run of games it would always seem to end with a meltdown like this. I mean, this team seems to be plagued by sudden, collective crises of confidence that transform them from an NBA championship contender to a high school team in the course of a few minutes.
it was pathetic - like they forgot how to play basketball. Sure, Milwaukee is a good defensive team but they were missing, and often badly missing, even when the shot was poorly defended. And it was like the were terrified, as you might suspect they would be, because it was happening again- and this time it was the playoffs. I'd say it was the worse stretch of basketball I've ever seen, but I actually saw the Clippers game in March, and saw similar, disastrous performances again and again* this season, always coming just when it appeared the team had finally figured things out..
 

Devizier

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If the Bucks shot 34% tonight from 3 that is only a diff of 4 and 12 points......when the benches were emptied it was a 30 point game. Let’s not fool ourselves into believing we lost because the Bucks were unconscious behind the arc. The difference was the extended 3Q stretch when we couldn’t make a shot while being lackadaisical in retreating back on defense. To me the most crucial element to slowing down the Bucks offense is transition defense and of course making shots helps in this regard.....in the 3Q we did neither.
Ding ding ding. The Celtics were shooting with like 15+ seconds on the clock, taking bad looks and getting beat in transition.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Well, despite MIL's insistence that they weren't going to make any changes, they made 2: first, they started switching screens and second, it looked to me that they had Middleton guard GH, which caused GH problems. BOS's problems came when BOS - especially KI - didn't take advantage of the mismatches. Also, with more attention paid to GH, I thought the second unit started to struggle.

This article has more video on the switches: https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/5/1/18525011/giannis-antetokounmpo-bucks-celtics-game-2
 

joe dokes

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Sadly the dreaded regular season Celtics have emerged in the playoffs after all. It pains me to remember, but throughout the season, whenever the Cs went on a good run of games it would always seem to end with a meltdown like this. I mean, this team seems to be plagued by sudden, collective crises of confidence that transform them from an NBA championship contender to a high school team in the course of a few minutes.
it was pathetic - like they forgot how to play basketball. Sure, Milwaukee is a good defensive team but they were missing, and often badly missing, even when the shot was poorly defended. And it was like the were terrified, as you might suspect they would be, because it was happening again- and this time it was the playoffs. I'd say it was the worse stretch of basketball I've ever seen, but I actually saw the Clippers game in March, and saw similar, disastrous performances again and again* this season, always coming just when it appeared the team had finally figured things out..
It seems like you had this post saved up and ready to go.

They weren't going to sweep the bucks. Losing by 1 or losing by 40. It's still one loss and a road split.
 

BaseballJones

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I don’t get the whole “they were exposed” line of thinking (whether those words are used or not). They were 5-0 and then got beat badly by a desperate and talented team whose season was on the brink. Go back to the great Celtics-Lakers or Celtics-Sixers series in the 80s. Teams often traded blowout wins. Sometimes it just happens. These teams are so talented that when one of them plays well and the other is off, the result is going to be a blowout.
 

Strike4

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I don't think this was the same thing as the regular season doldrums. The Bucks started shooting the lights out and the Celtics looked to their run stopper, Kyrie, to counter. Kyrie didn't have it last night. So, needing to do something else right away, other players tried to get a quick three to stem the damage. It wasn't awesome basketball but it was defensible under the circumstances. Jaylen's three attempt, the last one, was way off and you could see that the Celtics needed to try something else again to get some shots to fall. The problem last night was that there was no margin to try anything else (re-integrate Kyrie, get switches and post up Horford, have Tatum go ISO). Each time they tried to adjust the lead grew.
 

InstaFace

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I take some solace in the fact that the end of the bench beat their end of the bench by enough that the final margin for game 2 was less than our final margin for game 1.

#SilverLining
 

Red Averages

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This was like plugging a hole on a submarine. They got to the first 3-4 of them, but all of a sudden a main pipe burst and they panicked.

We'll get 'em on Friday with a new ship.
 

NomarsFool

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I'm really not a fan of the pull up 3 pointer from 2-3 feet behind the line with 18 seconds on the clock. I know it is cool when it goes in, but when they miss (which happens a lot) you rarely have any chance at an offensive board because most of the team is nowhere near the basket. Also, it's a great way to get in a terrible run because you have possession for 6 seconds before you are back on defense and the team just gets bewildered. I really wish Brad would drill into them not to do that.
 

benhogan

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need to re-watch playback on NBAtv

BUT my initial take is Kyrie's bad shooting game and other ill-advised shots led to Buck run outs. It made Celtics transition defense/wall look bad and it was.

I think you take comfort in Kyrie shooting better, Brad analyzing Q3 breakdown/fixing and the defensive energy being higher at home.
 

Captaincoop

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Over the final 7 minutes of the 3Q and the first couple minutes of the 4Q the Bucks lead went from 74-71 to 105-75. If you take away the 9 points made from 3's during these 10 minutes of play the Bucks would still have expanded the lead to 21 points. It was far from a barrage of 3's that led to the 31-4 run as the Bucks scored 12 from the line during this stretch along with 5 2-pt FG's......while we scored 4 points in nearly a full quarter of basketball.
The game was over going into the 4th. It was over with 1:20 remaining in the 3rd, at 96-73, with the Bucks finishing off a 22-1 run that started at 74-71.

During that run, the Celtics were 0-4 from three point range, while the Bucks were 3-5.

Everything that happened after that was garbage time. If 3 of those shots went differently, that's a 14-point game going into the 4th and the Celtics had a chance to weather the storm.
 

HomeRunBaker

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need to re-watch playback on NBAtv

BUT my initial take is Kyrie's bad shooting game and other ill-advised shots led to Buck run outs. It made Celtics transition defense/wall look bad and it was.

I think you take comfort in Kyrie shooting better, Brad analyzing Q3 breakdown/fixing and the defensive energy being higher at home.
The Bucks offense is so powerful in its secondary break w Giannis going downhill that any chink in the armor is going to be deadly. The missed jumpers were a large part of it but unlike G1 they were committed to forcing pace off misses and caught us in transition many times prior to being fully set.

We’ve discussed the importance of the wall but that is the final stage of defending them. You need to have all 5 back and IN position or they will exploit you. All it takes is one help defender being out of position or a step slow and you’re beat. This is what happened the entire 3Q and start of the 4Q resulting in a parade to the line and easy 2’s along with some 3’s. (Not you) To simply say that three 3-pt shots was the difference when all of this other action leading up to those shots, during these shots, and following them showed our vulnerabilities against the Bucks strengths is either failing to recognize or chose to ignore the real issue here.
 
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RedOctober3829

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The Bucks offense is so powerful in its secondary break w Giannis going downhill that any chink in the armor is going to be deadly.

We’ve discussed the importance of the wall but that is the final stage of defending them. You need to have all 5 back and IN position or they will exploit you. All it takes is one help defender being out of position or a step slow and you’re beat. This is what happened the entire 3Q and start of the 4Q resulting in a parade to the line and easy 2’s along with some 3’s. To simply say that three 3-pt shots was the difference when all this other action leading up to those shots, during these shots, and following them showed our vulnerabilities is not recognizing the real issue here.
I think everyone here isn't discounting the actions that went into those open 3's. They have to get fixed in order to improve next game. A lot of the problems in transition didn't surface in G1 because Milwaukee was taking the ball out of the basket a lot.

Honestly, I'd be fine with Giannis getting his at the rim and not helping off the shooters if I had to choose. The wall is nice when everyone can get to the shooters to close out and they're missing.
 

amarshal2

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I think everyone here isn't discounting the actions that went into those open 3's. They have to get fixed in order to improve next game. A lot of the problems in transition didn't surface in G1 because Milwaukee was taking the ball out of the basket a lot.

Honestly, I'd be fine with Giannis getting his at the rim and not helping off the shooters if I had to choose. The wall is nice when everyone can get to the shooters to close out and they're missing.
This would be a fundamental shift in strategy. The Celtics thus far have decided to collapse on Giannis and force the Bucks into winning the series from outside the arc. I think I would split the difference -- don't collapse off of Middleton and Brogdon when he's back but let Bledsoe, Lopez, etc. shoot until the cows come home with a guy breaking late into their face. If you were asked before the series started looking at all the stats if that was an effective strategy I'd bet you'd say yes. If you were asked if the Bucks were likely to win a couple games on hot shooting from three you'd say sure. All that has happened. I don't think the Bucks win 4/7 that way. I'd stick to the game plan. If Giannis is getting his anyway or they continue to hit at a super high rate from 3 so the Celtics are down double digits at half time/Q3 in G3 then maybe you change it up and guard the perimeter first.

What would be interesting is if the Celtics had a signal for which defense they play -- collapse or perimeter and they mixed it up to confuse Giannis and get some turnovers when he kicks it to a covered guy.
 
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reggiecleveland

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They were getting beat off the ball a lot, and some of this was the sagging "wall" to stop Gianis he was giving it up and they were getting beat in closeouts which lead to 3s.

I still think lobbying about the pushoffs during drives is needed. One Ir two o-fouls on Gianis coold change the series. The
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think everyone here isn't discounting the actions that went into those open 3's. They have to get fixed in order to improve next game. A lot of the problems in transition didn't surface in G1 because Milwaukee was taking the ball out of the basket a lot.

Honestly, I'd be fine with Giannis getting his at the rim and not helping off the shooters if I had to choose. The wall is nice when everyone can get to the shooters to close out and they're missing.
No certainty not everyone I was referring to some of the comments. We had 52 missed FGA last night compared to 40 on Sunday. While this played “some” factor it was the commitment to attacking prior to the Celtics able to build their wall that gave them so much of their advantage with defenders out of position and/or retreating.
 

RedOctober3829

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This would be a fundamental shift in strategy. The Celtics thus far have decided to collapse on Giannis and force the Bucks into winning the series from outside the arc. I think I would split the difference -- don't collapse off of Middleton and Brogdon when he's back but let Bledsoe, Lopez, etc. shoot until the cows come home with a guy breaking late into their face. If you were asked before the series started looking at all the stats if that was an effective strategy I'd bet you'd say yes. If you were asked if the Bucks were likely to win a couple games on hot shooting from three you'd say sure. All that has happened. I don't think the Bucks win 4/7 that way. I'd stick to the game plan. If Giannis is getting his anyway or they continue to hit at a super high rate from 3 so the Celtics are down double digits at half time/Q3 in G3 then maybe you change it up and guard the perimeter first.

What would be interesting is if the Celtics had a signal for which defense they play -- collapse or perimeter and they mixed it up to confuse Giannis and get some turnovers when he kicks it to a covered guy.
What you said was splitting the difference is what I was saying. I wouldn't just give him every open lane. You'd still have help from Baynes or Morris in the middle. However, if Middleton(and if Brogdon comes back Friday) are shooting well, you can't afford to help off of them. Sure if it's Mirotic, Lopez, and Bledsoe out there I'll take my chances but not with those two.

No certainty not everyone I was referring to some of the comments. We had 52 missed FGA last night compared to 40 on Sunday. While this played “some” factor it was the commitment to attacking prior to the Celtics able to build their wall that gave them so much of their advantage with defenders out of position and/or retreating.
Yes if they drive the lane early in the clock before the wall is set then things will open up which is what happened. Bud's adjustments had the Celtics on their heels especially in the 3rd quarter. Also helps when Milwaukee is putting the ball in the basket. They could have done all those things and still shot as poorly as they did in Game 1 which would negate their adjustments.
 

kazuneko

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It seems like you had this post saved up and ready to go.

They weren't going to sweep the bucks. Losing by 1 or losing by 40. It's still one loss and a road split.
No, I was super excited by this run in the playoffs and legitimately hoped that the intensity of the playoffs had given them the type of focus they needed to shake their inconsistent play in the regular season. Let's hope this doesn't lead to a multi-game stretch of underperformance like we so often saw before the playoffs or this will be the end of their run.
But there is no denying that there is something strange about this team. I've never followed a team this good who can play this horribly for stretches. I mean,that 28-2 run was horrific, and it didn't seem simply about basketball. The team completely lost it's confidence, and the resulting performance was so bad that it made you wish basketball was like boxing so the refs could have stepped in and put them out of their misery. And sadly, horrific meltdowns like that appear to be a chronic condition for this team, with this just the latest flare up. Anyway, I sincerely hope they bounce back. My fear is that this leaves them shaken a bit (like after the collapse against the Lakers which was followed by one of the worst team performance I've ever seen in their meltdown against the Clippers). .
 

DJnVa

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Sadly the dreaded regular season Celtics have emerged in the playoffs after all.
6 games. One bad stretch which meant they couldn't win the first 2 on the road against the #1 seed.

Apparently unless they swept every series you wouldn't be happy.

On the other hand, I'm happy that the browser window you had this post queued up in for a few weeks can finally be closed.
 

tims4wins

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6 games. One bad stretch which meant they couldn't win the first 2 on the road against the #1 seed.

Apparently unless they swept every series you wouldn't be happy.

On the other hand, I'm happy that the browser window you had this post queued up in for a few weeks can finally be closed.
2008 Celts lost their first SIX road playoff games, including three in the first round against the 8th seeded Hawks. Overall they went 3-9 on the road in the playoffs. The 2019 Celtics have already matched that road win total two games into the second round.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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2008 Celts lost their first SIX road playoff games, including three in the first round against the 8th seeded Hawks. Overall they went 3-9 on the road in the playoffs. The 2019 Celtics have already matched that road win total two games into the second round.
And that was a team that largely rolled through the regular season. I remember that series so vividly. Extremely frustrating, they DOMINATED the home games and then lost 3 nail biters in ATL.
 

tims4wins

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And that was a team that largely rolled through the regular season. I remember that series so vividly. Extremely frustrating, they DOMINATED the home games and then lost 3 nail biters in ATL.
Yeah I remember it pretty well too, I remember having Sox tickets on the day of game 7 (a Sunday 1pm start IIRC) and not even really being remotely worried. Was kind of watching on the concourse TVs while drinking beer, and it was a complete laugher - Celts were up 11 after 1, 18 after 2, and 36 after 3
 

lexrageorge

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No, I was super excited by this run in the playoffs and legitimately hoped that the intensity of the playoffs had given them the type of focus they needed to shake their inconsistent play in the regular season. Let's hope this doesn't lead to a multi-game stretch of underperformance like we so often saw before the playoffs or this will be the end of their run.
But there is no denying that there is something strange about this team. I've never followed a team this good who can play this horribly for stretches. I mean,that 28-2 run was horrific, and it didn't seem simply about basketball. The team completely lost it's confidence, and the resulting performance was so bad that it made you wish basketball was like boxing so the refs could have stepped in and put them out of their misery. And sadly, horrific meltdowns like that appear to be a chronic condition for this team, with this just the latest flare up. Anyway, I sincerely hope they bounce back. My fear is that this leaves them shaken a bit (like after the collapse against the Lakers which was followed by one of the worst team performance I've ever seen in their meltdown against the Clippers). .
Some of us are old enough to remember this atrocity:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198406030LAL.html

And that was after the Celtics were soundly beaten in Game 1 and a stolen ball away from losing Game 2. Bad things can happen to a team when they play on the road in the playoffs and things don't go well for a stretch.

I never had any expectation that the C's would come to Boston with a 2-0 lead. I felt at the start, and still feel, that the Celtics will need to win one more at Milwaukee to win this series. Fortunately, the Celtics still have a golden opportunity to take command of the series if they can hold serve these next two games in Boston.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The presumptive title favorite and unquestionably the most talented team in the NBA surrendered a 31 point lead in a playoff game less than two weeks ago. All of the takes that resulted from that game were a bit spicy - and now look terribly wrong - too.

One game is a data point, not a trend.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The presumptive title favorite and unquestionably the most talented team in the NBA surrendered a 31 point lead in a playoff game less than two weeks ago. All of the takes that resulted from that game were a bit spicy - and now look terribly wrong - too.

One game is a data point, not a trend.
I wish this post could also be stamped to every game thread where people are screaming at coaches for having starters in a playoff game with 8 min to go.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Some of us are old enough to remember this atrocity:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198406030LAL.html

And that was after the Celtics were soundly beaten in Game 1 and a stolen ball away from losing Game 2. Bad things can happen to a team when they play on the road in the playoffs and things don't go well for a stretch.

I never had any expectation that the C's would come to Boston with a 2-0 lead. I felt at the start, and still feel, that the Celtics will need to win one more at Milwaukee to win this series. Fortunately, the Celtics still have a golden opportunity to take command of the series if they can hold serve these next two games in Boston.
And on the flip side there is this game: https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198505270BOS.html, which lead to the immortal comment (I can't remember who said it; I'm thinking Magic but it may have been Riley): "When Greg Kite is hitting lefty hook shots, you know it's not your day."

Greg Kite - pound for pound the least talented player in NBA history.

BTW, the Cs won a second game in that series by 25.
 

HomeRunBaker

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BOS -2 for Friday.

The disrespect!!
They played twice in Boston this year. G1 on Nov 1st the Celtics opened -2 and closed -2.5 in a C's 4-point win.....G2 on Dec 21st the Celtics also opened -2 and closed +1 after it was announced Horford was out. The C's went up 10-1 early only to quickly be blown out of the water by an ensuing 57-22 over those next 16 minutes led by a barrage of 3's from Thon Maker, Tony Snell and Middleton as Giannis did Giannis things.
 

benhogan

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They played twice in Boston this year. G1 on Nov 1st the Celtics opened -2 and closed -2.5 in a C's 4-point win.....G2 on Dec 21st the Celtics also opened -2 and closed +1 after it was announced Horford was out. The C's went up 10-1 early only to quickly be blown out of the water by an ensuing 57-22 over those next 16 minutes led by a barrage of 3's from Thon Maker, Tony Snell and Middleton as Giannis did Giannis things.
Just a note in G2 - Horford, Baynes and MaMo were out. Ojeleye and a healing Hayward were their 4/5. not much rim protection, even in the halfcourt.

Its really as simple as this team goes as Kyrie goes. Kyrie hits shots, draws more attention, leaves others open. Which leads to higher FG% and most importantly the Celtic's healthy frontcourt gets to set their 3 across/hands up halfcourt defense.
 

reggiecleveland

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Its really as simple as this team goes as Kyrie goes. Kyrie hits shots, draws more attention, leaves others open. Which leads to higher FG% and most importantly the Celtic's healthy frontcourt gets to set their 3 across/hands up halfcourt defense.
Word
I don't think anybody in the east beats the Cs if Kyrie gets rolling.
 

RedOctober3829

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Mook adding some juice to the series.

Marcus Morris heard about Giannis Antetokounmpo accusing the #Celtics of excessive fouling. "Please! Borderline not fouling his ass, with him getting calls," Mook said. "That just shows we're probably getting to him by now."
 

Jimbodandy

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Mook adding some juice to the series.

Marcus Morris heard about Giannis Antetokounmpo accusing the #Celtics of excessive fouling. "Please! Borderline not fouling his ass, with him getting calls," Mook said. "That just shows we're probably getting to him by now."
Series hasn't gotten that physical yet. Smart of GA to get in front of it really. Still bullshit, but that's how the game is played in the PR world now.
 

TripleOT

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You're not allowed to contact Giannis after his third step.. Morris should know this.
 

amarshal2

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Game 4 isn't on Sunday? WTF is going on with this schedule? Going into Monday's game the C's will have played 3 games in 15 days. Ridiculous.
Don't complain. The extra rest is a huge benefit to the Celtics because Al Horford is arguably the most important player in the entire series and he's significantly better with extra rest.

Small sample size warnings apply but here are his 18-19 splits by rest:
_______o-rating / d-rating / +/-
0 days: 106 / 107 / -2.4
1 day: 122 / 110 / +5.2
2 days: 122 / 104 / +6.9
3+ days: 127 / 103 / +17.1

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/splits/2019
 

lovegtm

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Don't complain. The extra rest is a huge benefit to the Celtics because Al Horford is arguably the most important player in the entire series and he's significantly better with extra rest.

Small sample size warnings apply but here are his 18-19 splits by rest:
_______o-rating / d-rating / +/-
0 days: 106 / 107 / -2.4
1 day: 122 / 110 / +5.2
2 days: 122 / 104 / +6.9
3+ days: 127 / 103 / +17.1

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/horfoal01/splits/2019
Also gives Smart more time to get back (he was initially behind in the race against Brogdon, but seems to be catching up, because he’s Marcus Smart).
 

DJnVa

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I like the rest of course, but it just seems they should run out 2 games a night, play every other day.

I mean, to entertain me.
 

Captaincoop

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It’s been this way for awhile now.
When? There was no point last year where the Celtics took two days off without switching locales. And even when that happened, the rest of the series was played with one day off between games.

The schedule this year is the worst I can remember. Three times this series they are scheduled to take a multi-day break. And that's after a six-day break heading into the series.
 

InstaFace

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again, the longer we wait, the better for Al Horford and Marcus Smart. This plays to our favor.

Thanks for taking one for the team, Coop.
 

JCizzle

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Dec 11, 2006
20,762
Note that the Celtics lived at the line for the last five minutes of the game. Funny how that works.