Forgot this one rather quickly, eh?They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting
Forgot this one rather quickly, eh?They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting
Hmm...They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting
They've been talking about it so long, that it would be tough to accurately summarize. He asked Butler about his future and Butler said "I ain't Miss Cleo, I don't know.." But Reiss than said that he doesn't think there is any chance Butler comes back, which is pretty obvious. Reiss seems to be doing what he can to toe the line, talked about how it could have been a football decision, wanting to use the larger corners against the larger Eagles receivers, but nobody has any answer for the questions of "when it wasn't working, why the fuck didn't it get changed." Reiss said they did make some adjustments bringing in Bademosi for Richards, but they kept that initial 2 big corner plan all game long, etc.Anything Butler adding to what’s already been reported he said?
And it lost them the Super Bowl--or contributed mightily to it. And yes, that last part is my hedge.They've been talking about it so long, that it would be tough to accurately summarize. He asked Butler about his future and Butler said "I ain't Miss Cleo, I don't know.." But Reiss than said that he doesn't think there is any chance Butler comes back, which is pretty obvious. Reiss seems to be doing what he can to toe the line, talked about how it could have been a football decision, wanting to use the larger corners against the larger Eagles receivers, but nobody has any answer for the questions of "when it wasn't working, why the fuck didn't it get changed." Reiss said they did make some adjustments bringing in Bademosi for Richards, but they kept that initial 2 big corner plan all game long, etc.
Whatever, nobody knows. It just sucks.
Week 1vs KC.They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
They gave up 41 fucking points
Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting
Yep 1 extra point in a game Kareem Hunt rushed for a billion yards.Week 1vs KC.
I get that you are frustrated - hell I am still hurting from this one. But you said - and these are your words - that you were "Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting". All DanoooME did was point out that you were incorrect.One whole extra point GJGE
Seriously 1 fucking point. Zero material difference.I get that you are frustrated - hell I am still hurting from this one. But you said - and these are your words - that you were "Pretty sure they never gave up 41 pts with Butler starting". All DanoooME did was point out that you were incorrect.
But wasn't your point, regardless of the actual numbers, that the D never played this bad when Butler was playing? The point is that is just incorrect - they did, in Week 1.Seriously 1 fucking point. Zero material difference.
That point doesn't even factor into it. You said they've never hung up 41 with Butler playing. They have. With a bonus point. You were wrong.Seriously 1 fucking point. Zero material difference.
Yep, pass rush was non existent, even when they rushed 5 they didn't get close. Would have loved to see them rush 3 and force Foles to make some tough throws instead.And really the game came down the fact that whatever BB and Patricia were able to do to mask the defense’s issues after Week 4 they were not able to do tonight. Remember this defense was historically bad through four games this year, so it can’t be that much of a surprise that it showed up again at the worst possible time.
Shit - I was wishing for Ninkovich tonight.Yep, pass rush was non existent, even when they rushed 5 they didn't get close. Would have loved to see them rush 3 and force Foles to make some tough throws instead.
This is a great point. But part of the problem in weeks 1-4 was a lack of communication, or so we were told. Removing one of the starting corners from the D might have visited that upon them again. At the very least, it deprived them of a good tackler.And really the game came down the fact that whatever BB and Patricia were able to do to mask the defense’s issues after Week 4 they were not able to do tonight. Remember this defense was historically bad through four games this year, so it can’t be that much of a surprise that it showed up again at the worst possible time.
This. You practice and play as a unit all year, and change in the biggest game of the year, and expect everyone will be able to do their jobs seamlessly?This is a great point. But part of the problem in weeks 1-4 was a lack of communication, or so we were told. Removing one of the starting corners from the D might have visited that upon them again. At the very least, it deprived them of a good tackler.
Some of the reactions here have been extreme but we can probably all agree that the decision made winning harder tonight, and probably played a role in the outcome.
That is really something new for us Pats fans in this era. I felt that way to some extent in 2010 and Welker was only benched for a series. Today is just very hard to wrap my head around given the coaching aspect.
We're all emotional after the loss but vent in the Goat Thread if you must.Seriously 1 fucking point. Zero material difference.
Or the fact that Chung looked like he was playing on one leg for much of the 2nd half.After Richards got beat in coverage a half dozen times and couldn't tackle a traffic cone they didn't think to reconsider the plan?
Another flag on Browner. Even with the amazing interception, no way Butler was NE's "best defender" the last 3 years.Brandon Browner's Instagram (Hightower liked it).
He was better than the garbage they put on the field in his place. A better cover man and a better tackler. He's also played the vast majority of snaps this year, so likely the team communication is better with him on the field.Re: Browner -
Malcolm Butler was not very good this year. I completely get questioning whether or not he could have improved on that shitshow, but acting like he’s some savior overall is ridiculous.
And Hightower should know better than that. Especially as he didn’t even play.
That's the party line that Reiss was spewing earlier, and frankly, I'm not buying a word of it. They want us to believe that in the other 17 games the Pats played this year, there wasn't a single one where they thought putting a safety at the nickel and a larger corner at the #2 was a good decision? Never, not once? Butler played 98% of the snaps this year, so if this is their reasoning, it is literally the first time all year that they thought this would work, and they chose the Super Bowl to trot it out.Rich Hill with a plausible football explanation:
Patriots personnel decision was to put a safety (Chung, Richards) at the nickel to help stop the run and also cover the slot (Agholor). Plan was for bigger Rowe to cover Jeffery and they trusted Gilmore to cover Smith better than Butler could.
Rowe struggled vs Jeffery and coaches decided to just flip Rowe's and Gilmore's coverage responsibilities, instead of benching Rowe and adding Butler to the mix.
So it sounds like they were worried about the Eagles running the ball and wanted a bigger slot player in place of a third CB. And they wanted Rowe and Gilmore outside on the biggest receivers (which makes sense). The problem is, they didn't stop the run all that well, either.
That switch worked pretty well and Agholor didn’t do much until late in the game. My guess is they figured there was no reason to switch things up with the Agholor coverage, based on his first half, which is where Butler would have gone.The only adjustment was swapping Gilmore and Rowe’s assignments?
Could be making it up or Browner could have received a text from Butler or maybe Harmon. Harmon seemed upset in his post game interview that Butler was benched.I would guess Browner is friends with some Pats players. Although, maybe too soon after the game to have spoken to anyone?
In my opinion, the 0 snaps was the game plan.I really hope more leaks out here, I truly can’t wrap my head around this one. Butler was very mediocre this year and hell I’ll even be charitable and say I respect the decision to start Rowe given the week of practice and the matchup. But 0 snaps, even with the 3rd and 4th string guys struggling and Chung hurt? Losing the start and major snaps is game plan. 0 snaps is an FU.
Also apparently left the game with a concussion per the pbp I was reading.Or the fact that Chung looked like he was playing on one leg for much of the 2nd half.
His revenge fire will be deep. Whoever he plays for in 2018 will get 200% effort and commitment.In my opinion, the 0 snaps was the game plan.
Let me ask you guys this question. I assume you've now all seen the video of Malcom crying during the National Anthem. Do you think he reacts that way if he just spent a full week in practice watching Rowe taking the first team snaps, and is told he won't start? Or do you think he reacts that way if it's made clear to him right before the game that not only is he not starting, but he won't be playing any defensive snaps? I think it's the latter, and I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise, because if Rowe was getting the snaps in practice all week, not starting would not have been a surprise that led to that emotion.
He was told pre-game he wouldn't be playing defense, at all. The decision was made, and regardless of what happened in the game, BB wasn't going back on the decision. I stand by the belief that if Malcolm was the last healthy guy on the defense, they would have trotted out someone's corpse over him today, because using Richards and Bademosi was barely a step up from that. The question remains why did BB decide before the game that Butler deserved zero snaps on defense?
Except the Eagles were also running the ball all over the place, and breaking tackles in the secondary without a problem. Coverage isn't Butler's only responsibility, it's tackling, and he tackles better than anyone in that secondary other than maybe McCourty. And the tackling, IMO, was as big a problem tonight as any that the defense had.That switch worked pretty well and Agholor didn’t do much until late in the game. My guess is they figured there was no reason to switch things up with the Agholor coverage, based on his first half, which is where Butler would have gone.
Yup.Except the Eagles were also running the ball all over the place, and breaking tackles in the secondary without a problem. Coverage isn't Butler's only responsibility, it's tackling, and he tackles better than anyone in that secondary other than maybe McCourty. And the tackling, IMO, was as big a problem tonight as any that the defense had.
I think it's also very plausible that once the game was about to start, and you knew your role had been significantly reduced the past two weeks, that the emotions could hit you all of a sudden as well.. sadness/frustration/anger.. it probably could hit you all at once regardless when he was told after JAX.In my opinion, the 0 snaps was the game plan.
Let me ask you guys this question. I assume you've now all seen the video of Malcom crying during the National Anthem. Do you think he reacts that way if he just spent a full week in practice watching Rowe taking the first team snaps, and is told he won't start? Or do you think he reacts that way if it's made clear to him right before the game that not only is he not starting, but he won't be playing any defensive snaps? I think it's the latter, and I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise, because if Rowe was getting the snaps in practice all week, not starting would not have been a surprise that led to that emotion.
He was told pre-game he wouldn't be playing defense, at all. The decision was made, and regardless of what happened in the game, BB wasn't going back on the decision. I stand by the belief that if Malcolm was the last healthy guy on the defense, they would have trotted out someone's corpse over him today, because using Richards and Bademosi was barely a step up from that. The question remains why did BB decide before the game that Butler deserved zero snaps on defense?